Calling U.S. Social Security? Know Your Consular Code!

[taxout]

I called Social Security in the U.S. today, at their general help number. I answered all the usual identity questions, until the woman asks, "And your Consular Code?" My what? "Your Consular Code," she says. "It's part of the address." Well, I have my latest Medicare correspondence right at hand enclosing Form 1095-B, and there's no code whatever on that address. Nor is there any such code on my Medicare card.

No matter: no dice. Since I can't identify myself with my Consular Code -- whatever that is -- she can't speak to me. Goodbye, and Have a Nice Day!

What a classic and mind-benumbing bureaucratic conundrum: unless you give us the magic code we've never told you about, you'll never be able to contact us to get the magic code you need to contact us. No Social Security for you!

I have had other conversations with Social Security before without any Consular Code being demanded, but today was different.

Finally, I called the direct number of the Office of International Operations, and they were able to help me quickly and without hassle. It's a useful option to know:

https://www.ssa.gov/foreign/phones.html

But since you'll never know when you might need it, find and then remember your Consular Code.

Whatever that is.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Good info, I think..., thanks.

However, "You will need to look at the last two digits of your Social Security claim number in order to determine which number to use."

I'm already getting SocSec but what is my "claim?" Didn't know I'd made one?

Mac

[taxout]

If you have a pending claim, I suppose you'll have a claim number. I had a pending application not a claim, so I called the number for non-claim inquiries. Answered by a live person on the second ring, unlike the main number where you listen to an interminable recording, then get put in a half-hour queue.before you can speak to anyone (who will then do her best to find a reason to tell you she can't help you).

Edited April 11, 2016 by taxout

[ubonjoe]

Good info, I think..., thanks.

However, "You will need to look at the last two digits of your Social Security claim number in order to determine which number to use."

I'm already getting SocSec but what is my "claim?" Didn't know I'd made one?

Mac

For some time now the claim number is the same as your social security number plus a letter such as A, B, C and etc. I think the first claim is A.

Looking at that site it appears you would use the last two digits of your social security number to find out which number to call.

[taxout]

Since your Social Security number also serves as your Medicare number, and your Medicare number floats around pretty openly on all sorts of documents at all sorts of places, there's a serious risk of identity theft. Social Security has known about this problem for years and years, but refused to resolve it with a new numbering system because, like the woman I spoke with on the phone, it didn't want to be bothered.

It finally took an Act of Congress to force Social Security to resolve this problem, and new Medicare numbers will be introduced in three years or so.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/21/us/new-law-to-strip-social-security-numbers-from-medicare-cards.html

[retiredaamt]

You might try calling the Social Security office in Manila. I have had good responses from them. They do prefer email inquires. Email inquires give them a record of any correspondence. Phone calls do not. Their phone number is (632) 301 2000 ext.9. Their email address is [email protected].

[BKKSnowBird]

What is difference between a claim and an application?

Never heard of that code either. Its also much cheaper to call the US than Manila.

Edited April 14, 2016 by BKKSnowBird

[taxout]

You make an initial application for Social Security. You apply for Medicare A or B. Those are pending applications, not claims, in my book.

(And you can call the States in the evening from Asia, which some may find more convenient than the daytime.)

Edited April 14, 2016 by taxout

[Pib]

Consular Code info from the Social Security Website. Consular code for Thailand is 929.

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0901510001

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0901510200

[taxout]

As well, if you want to register for MyMedicare.gov so you can access your records online, you'll be blocked because you can't provide a ZIP code.

https://www.mymedicare.gov/registration.aspx

Ditto if you want to check your current Medicare status:

https://www.medicare.gov/find-a-plan/enrollment/check-enrollment.aspx#Errors

[Fookhaht]

You might try calling the Social Security office in Manila. I have had good responses from them. They do prefer email inquires. Email inquires give them a record of any correspondence. Phone calls do not. Their phone number is (632) 301 2000 ext.9. Their email address is [email protected].

Bad experience here with email inquiries. I sent an enquiry which took two months to answer, despite three or four back-up inquiries.

[Fookhaht]

I called Social Security in the U.S. today, at their general help number. I answered all the usual identity questions, until the woman asks, "And your Consular Code?" My what? "Your Consular Code," she says. "It's part of the address." Well, I have my latest Medicare correspondence right at hand enclosing Form 1095-B, and there's no code whatever on that address. Nor is there any such code on my Medicare card.

No matter: no dice. Since I can't identify myself with my Consular Code -- whatever that is -- she can't speak to me. Goodbye, and Have a Nice Day!

What a classic and mind-benumbing bureaucratic conundrum: unless you give us the magic code we've never told you about, you'll never be able to contact us to get the magic code you need to contact us. No Social Security for you!

I have had other conversations with Social Security before without any Consular Code being demanded, but today was different.

Finally, I called the direct number of the Office of International Operations, and they were able to help me quickly and without hassle. It's a useful option to know:

https://www.ssa.gov/foreign/phones.html

But since you'll never know when you might need it, find and then remember your Consular Code.

Whatever that is.

Thank you. VERY helpful!

[Pib]

As well, if you want to register for MyMedicare.gov so you can access your records online, you'll be blocked because you can't provide a ZIP code.

https://www.mymedicare.gov/registration.aspx

Ditto if you want to check your current Medicare status:

https://www.medicare.gov/find-a-plan/enrollment/check-enrollment.aspx#Errors

Since Medicare is only usable within the U.S. (except maybe for some emergency care when traveling) I guess they assume you will be living in the U.S./have a U.S. address. But like us retired military folks who live states-side and/or overseas with possibly no U.S. address we can continue Tricare (worldwide coverage) when we turn 65 "if and only if" signing up for Medicare Part A and Part B. Although paying the Part B premium, Medicare will not cover medicare costs outside the U.S. but Tricare continue to provide coverage since you are paying Part B...step foot back in the U.S. and Medicare and Tricare join up to provide coverage.

But yea, to sign up for some govt benefits/websites if you don't have a ZIP code/U.S. address you can use like a family/friend address, an APO address, etc., a person could be sucking eggs in trying to signup. Just some of the challenges in living outside the home country.

[taxout]

Not a small number of Americans live outside the U.S. when they reach 65. And since Part A is free, of course they will -- or should -- sign up for it. And since there's a stiff penalty for late enrollment in Part B, skipping Part B enrollment when they reach 65 is probably not a good idea unless they're pretty certain they won't be returning to the U.S. to get healthcare as they age. Medicare ought to recognize this reality.

As to using a U.S. address, that is a bad idea. Returning expats get some special late enrollment rights when it comes to Medicare Advantage and Part D (but not, critically, Part B ) and so you don't want to raise questions about your expat status by using a U.S. address for Medicare or Social Security purposes. That right to late enrollment in Medicare Advantage or Part D could be very valuable if your health takes a turn for the worse in years to come.

(Medicare itself provides no coverage outside the U.S. except in some very rare circumstances; some Medigap policies provide limited coverage outside the U.S., but only during the first 60 days of your travel outside the U.S.)

Edited April 19, 2016 by taxout

[Pib]

Returning expats don't get any special enrollment rights/get to avoid any Medicare Advantage/Part D late enrollment fees except in unique situations like you are working overseas and your employer was providing a "credible" medical/drug coverage program. See below Medicare webpages and a health insurer webpage which talks the subject and the limited ways to avoid a late enrollment penalty, what is considered credible coverage, etc. Just being an expat who lived/retired/worked overseas like Thailand who decides to not enroll when first eligible for various available Medicare coverage (whether you an use them or not overseas) does not give them in late enrollment rights when returning to the U.S. unless the meet the credible coverage requirements. Or at least that's my understanding based on review of Medicare related info such as below.

https://www.medicare.gov/part-d/costs/penalty/part-d-late-enrollment-penalty.html

http://www.uhc.com/employer/health-plans/specialty-coverage/medicare-part-d-creditable-coverage/faq

https://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Prescription-Drug-Coverage/CreditableCoverage/index.html?redirect=/CreditableCoverage/

http://medicareblog.org/working-overseas-do-you-need-to-enroll-in-medicare/

[taxout]

Nope. You're wrong.

Click "I moved back to the U.S. after living outside the country."

It'll show:

"What can I do? Join a Medicare Advantage Plan or Medicare Prescription Drug Plan. When? Your chance to join lasts for 2 full months after the month you move back to the U.S."

https://www.medicare.gov/sign-up-change-plans/when-can-i-join-a-health-or-drug-plan/special-circumstances/join-plan-special-circumstances.html#collapse-3195

Since getting a Medigap policy would be very difficult once you've developed serious medical issues, the right to get Medicare Advantage instead in case you've got some seriously expensive problems could be very important. So important you should take care not to establish U.S. residence inadvertently.

[Pib]

What I really meant in terms of special enrollment rights is avoidance of penalties/significantly higher premiums if you didn't join when you were first eligible after you were no longer covered by a credible plan. I'm not saying you can't join plans after your move back to the states...of course you can; I'm saying there will be a premium penalty if you didn't join when first eligible because you opted to be a retired expat for X-years and then decided to repatriate to the U.S. and join various Medicare plans (part B, D, etc). The SEP you reference is really just talking a special signup window; it's not talking premium penalty for late sign up, even though the late sign up is during a special signup/re-signup window. Medicare rules and premiums are setup to discourage people from dropping coverage when they are in good health but wanting to rejoin when bad health hits.

But I sure know if I couldn't use the the medicare parts such at part B, C, D, etc., because I wasn't living in the U.S. I sure wouldn't be signing up for them. And that turns into a downside when/if you repatriate.

[taxout]

You've got it wrong once again.

You don't owe the Part D Late Enrollment Penalty ("LEP") if you didn't enroll when first eligible because you were living outside the U.S.

https://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Appeals-and-Grievances/MedPrescriptDrugApplGriev/Downloads/Appendix-15-Part-D-Late-Enrollment-Penalty-Reconsideration-Request-Form-.pdf

If the LEP is mistakenly imposed on you, you object using that form, and one ground for objection is: “I believe the LEP is wrong because I was not eligible to enroll in a Medicare Part D plan during the period stated by my current Medicare Part D plan. Example: You lived outside of the United States during the initial enrollment period stated by your Medicare Part D plan. You must submit proof why you believe the LEP is wrong, such as proof of overseas residency."

As to Medicare Advantage, there's no penalty for late enrollment; you're either entitled to enroll or you are not, with no adjustment in premiums. So if you're eligible to enroll late in Medicare Advantage because you're a returning expat, you will not pay extra.

And as I said at the very outset, I am not talking about Part B; there is no broad exception from the Part B Late Enrollment Penalty for returning expats. You will pay the Part B penalty if you enroll late, unless very special circumstances apply. But Part D and Medicare Advantage are, for whatever reason, different, and it's an important difference to know.

[Pib]

Good info...thanks. I see part of the Late Enrollment Penalty Reconsideration form focuses on providing proof of credible coverage and/or overseas residency if applicable/depending on your situation. Again, thanks for the LEP form...good info.

Edit: Question: do you know what proof is considered satisfactory to prove overseas residency?

Edited April 19, 2016 by Pib

[taxout]

No, I don't know, though perhaps there are answers deep in the Social Security procedural rules.

Of course as in any rule like this, you can easily think of situations that aren't too clear. For example, moving back is often a process, involving several trips and a gradual transition, but the rule looks to a firm date when your foreign residency ends. Since that two-month window to apply following return is pretty short, there's not much room for error.

In any event, though I'm not certain, I believe you need to show foreign residency from the time you turned 65 and became eligible to apply for Part D or Medicare Advantage till the time of your return, which might be a decade or more later. You certainly should keep some old records documenting your foreign residency from age 65. Remember that while Social Security may have a foreign address for you, for all they know that's just a foreign mailiing address; it doesn't prove you're actually living overseas.

[BKKSnowBird]

What if I have a Medicare Advantage plan now as I live in the US but plan to move to Thailand? I understand its illegal to keep the Advantage plan if I don't live in the US.

I will continue to pay part B but would want to avoid a penalty on an Advantage or part D plan if I did decide to return to the US someday.

Do I just make sure Medicare knows I moved? I did ask them once but the rep didn't seem sure.

[taxout]

Wonderful question, and I don't know the answer. Problem is, it's a rare question so I wouldn't expect anyone just answering the phone to be able to give you a reliable answer.

I'd suggest writing the International Operations Office in Baltimore, by ordinary mail. And unlike a phone call, that should give you written reply you can rely on, unlike a telephone call.

[CaptHaddock]

What if I have a Medicare Advantage plan now as I live in the US but plan to move to Thailand? I understand its illegal to keep the Advantage plan if I don't live in the US.

I will continue to pay part B but would want to avoid a penalty on an Advantage or part D plan if I did decide to return to the US someday.

Do I just make sure Medicare knows I moved? I did ask them once but the rep didn't seem sure.

It's not "illegal" to continue a Medicare Advantage program after moving abroad. They are not going to put you in jail for doing so. You are just not eligible which means the insurer would not have to pay a claim. So, there is no value to you.

You don't notify anyone when you move abroad. Medicare does not keep track of you. You just cancel the MA policy. Then, if you ever move back to the States and want to sign up for an MA plan you just do so within 60 days of returning so that there are no penalties.

[BKKSnowBird]

Are you sure of that? I would prefer to keep the Advantage policy in place as it does not cost me anything other than the part B premium. That way there is no gap and good to go if I did have to return. I know I would have to return to my current geographical area due to its a HMO network but I'm OK with that.

I would think updating your address with the SSA would automatically update it with Medicare.

Edited April 22, 2016 by BKKSnowBird

[CaptHaddock]

Are you sure of that? I would prefer to keep the Advantage policy in place as it does not cost me anything other than the part B premium. That way there is no gap and good to go if I did have to return. I know I would have to return to my current geographical area due to its a HMO network but I'm OK with that.

I would think updating your address with the SSA would automatically update it with Medicare.

Yes. 100% sure of it. You have to be resident in the US to be eligible for MA or any of the other parts of Medicare, except for A and B. If you have obtained or continued your MA policy while not resident in the US and make a claim the insurer could certainly refuse to pay a claim. Practically speaking, would they find out? I don't know, but it makes no sense to buy insurance that may not pay off when you need it.

If you were to return to live in the US you would have 60 days to buy a new MA policy. Your pre-existing conditions could not be excluded nor would you pay any penalty. This means that if you were ill you could return to the US, buy the MA policy immediately, and use it to pay for treatment for your illness.

So, paying while you are not eligible makes no senses.

[taxout]

It could make sense: if a medical problem develops you might want to get care under your Medicare Advantage plan without formally moving back to the U.S.

[CaptHaddock]

It could make sense: if a medical problem develops you might want to get care under your Medicare Advantage plan without formally moving back to the U.S.

Unless the insurer finds out that you obtained your MA policy fraudulently and refuses to pay your claim in which case you paid, but you didn't have insurance.

[taxout]

I don't see "fraud," which is a very strong term. He would not have "obtained" the policy fraudulently certainly if he had been a bona-fide resident of the MA service area when he applied for the policy.

The basic question is whether you must -- absolutely must on pain of finding out someday you have no coverage -- cancel your MA plan when you move outside your MA service area. You move from Manhattan to Jersey City, say, but want to keep seeing your NY doctors. Again, I don't know the answer, and a bit of Googling suggests Medicare doesn't make it too easy to find firm answers on questions like this.

Edited April 23, 2016 by taxout

[BKKSnowBird]

Yes, they dont make it clear. Also, how do you prove you were not a resident from x to x, but now are back and want to sign up without penalty? Stamps in your passport? I would guess whatever you had on record with the SSA.

[CaptHaddock]

I don't see "fraud," which is a very strong term. He would not have "obtained" the policy fraudulently certainly if he had been a bona-fide resident of the MA service area when he applied for the policy.

The basic question is whether you must -- absolutely must on pain of finding out someday you have no coverage -- cancel your MA plan when you move outside your MA service area. You move from Manhattan to Jersey City, say, but want to keep seeing your NY doctors. Again, I don't know the answer, and a bit of Googling suggests Medicare doesn't make it too easy to find firm answers on questions like this.

If you claim falsely to be a resident of the area served by the MA insurer then that's fraud. If the insurer got wind of it they would certainly rescind the policy and refuse payments under it. There is no ambiguity, you must be a resident of that area to apply for MA insurance. If you have any doubt ring up the insurance company and ask them.

The function of insurance is to pay someone to assume your risk. Paying for a policy that might or might not pay off when you need it does not satisfy the requirement.