Working in the UK

[edwinchester]

Some of my wife's friends living in the UK are now reporting that people have been denied employment there despite having ILR. She has been told that either a UK passport is required or have to be an EU national.

First I have heard of this so asking if anyone else has heard of such. Thanks for reading.

[Waterloo]

sounds like ignorance on the part of the employer, I know of lots of people including my own wife who legally worked whilst on ILR

[uksomchai]

Complete BS ! You are not allowed to discriminate in the UK like this. as long as the woman has the right to work anyone refusing her can be fined and made to pay compensation. They are so strict about it here, overtly so in my opinion that you cannot even suggest British workers for British jobs never mind actually do it

[johnatong]

If they the ladies had NI numbers/cards + the appropriate stamps in their passports I find this claim difficult to understand.

If refused work (as the OP suggests) then the facts should be reported to the local Jobcentre and legal advice sought from the Citizens Advice Bureau.

[bobrussell]

It is the employers legal responsibility to ensure all potential employees have permission to work in the UK. It is easy enough to check so they are misinformed or lazy!

The fines can be very hefty so some companies take the easy way out and refuse employment.

Once someone has any form of settlement visa, they are entitled to work unless it specifically states otherwise on the visa. ILR holders are to all intents and purposes exempt from immigration control and can work freely!

A national insurance number does not in itself show someone is allowed to work in the UK so is not evidence allowing someone to work.

You can give them the online checking link https://www.gov.uk/legal-right-work-uk. They can get a yes or no answer within minutes.

[Richard W]

I think it highly likely that the ladies have ILR stamps in expired passports. While Bob Russell gave the unclear impression that he would consider employing someone who has proof of holding ILR, such as ILR stamps clearly accepted by Immigration, most employers will not accept such stamps for new employees. The reason is that such evidence of the right to work does not protect an employer if the passport holder is an imposter, or, more significantly, especially for the ink stamps rather than the stickers, the stamp turns out to be fake.

Instead, ILR holders have to show an ILR stamp in a current passport, or a current BRP. These protect the employer if the stamps are not obvious fakes or the worker is a non-obvious imposter. This topic came up a year or two ago, when stamps and stickers in expired passports stopped being accepted.

[Richard W]

Once someone has any form of settlement visa, they are entitled to work unless it specifically states otherwise on the visa.

Yeah, but is an employer required to consider them for employment?

[edwinchester]

Thanks very much for the replies.

I guess the next question is, is it possible to transfer an ILR sticker to a current passport to avoid potential aggravation?

[edwinchester]

Using the link above and having a good read am I right in understanding that having a Biometric Residence Permit should avoid this potential hassle? If so has anyone gone through the procedure of applying for one and what does it involve? Must admit never heard of one of these myself.

[theoldgit]

In the list of acceptable documents in the Home Office Guide issued to prospective employers it confirms that for non EU Nationals the right to work endorsement, or in this case ILR, must be in a current passport.

A current passport endorsed to show that the holder is exempt from immigration control, is allowed to stay indefinitely in the UK, has the right of abode in the UK, or has no time limit on their stay in the UK.

Visa vignettes are normally transferable to new passports for applicants not in the UK, but not for those in the UK, they would need to apply for a BRP and your entitlement can be entered on that. https://www.gov.uk/transfer-visa

employers_guide_to_acceptable_right_to_work_documents_v5.pdf

[apetley]

In the list of acceptable documents in the Home Office Guide issued to prospective employers it confirms that for non EU Nationals the right to work endorsement, or in this case ILR, must be in a current passport.

A current passport endorsed to show that the holder is exempt from immigration control, is allowed to stay indefinitely in the UK, has the right of abode in the UK, or has no time limit on their stay in the UK.

Visa vignettes are normally transferable to new passports for applicants not in the UK, but not for those in the UK, they would need to apply for a BRP and your entitlement can be entered on that. https://www.gov.uk/transfer-visa

Nice link theoldgit

Interesting that visas can be transferred to a new one whilst abroad out of UK, didn't know that. As my Thai wife will get a new Thai passport next year and it is easier to do in BKK I am now wondering how easy it would be to transfer her ILR to the new Thai passport at the same time. Anybody done this before?

[theoldgit]

I believe that they mean you can only transfer visit visas into a new passport, I don't think that just because she's physically in Thailand that she would be able to do so, but I'm not 100% sure.

I don't think ILR is an actual visa.

I'm pretty sure that she should be going down the BRP route and her entitlement should be recorded on there.

[markie53]

My wife is still on further leave to remain but her biometric residency permit very clearly states "work permitted" I'd personally feel anyone refusing to employ someone with the same evidence and a national insurance number maybe breaking discrimination laws.

[apetley]

I believe that they mean you can only transfer visit visas into a new passport, I don't think that just because she's physically in Thailand that she would be able to do so, but I'm not 100% sure.

I don't think ILR is an actual visa.

I'm pretty sure that she should be going down the BRP route and her entitlement should be recorded on there.

Hi, thanks for your input.

The form actually says 'visa/entry clearance' which is a little ambiguous.

Wondering if anyone knows if ILR is covered by that entry clearance or not?

[bobrussell]

I think it highly likely that the ladies have ILR stamps in expired passports. While Bob Russell gave the unclear impression that he would consider employing someone who has proof of holding ILR, such as ILR stamps clearly accepted by Immigration, most employers will not accept such stamps for new employees. The reason is that such evidence of the right to work does not protect an employer if the passport holder is an imposter, or, more significantly, especially for the ink stamps rather than the stickers, the stamp turns out to be fake.

Instead, ILR holders have to show an ILR stamp in a current passport, or a current BRP. These protect the employer if the stamps are not obvious fakes or the worker is a non-obvious imposter. This topic came up a year or two ago, when stamps and stickers in expired passports stopped being accepted.

What unclear impression did I give?

Anyone with ILR is entitled to work in the UK. The government website gives a clear step by step guide that protects employers. If the guide suggests the evidence is inadequate, it indicates what enquiries can be made. There is a helpline as well.

Businesses will only be prosecuted if they have failed to make proper checks or document the checks that have been made. I require sight of a passport and keep copies. Biometric cards serve the same purpose.

Anyone taking reasonable steps to ensure staff are entitled to work will be absolutely fine.

[7by7]

ILR is not entry clearance as such; it is leave to remain.

It is no longer possible to transfer an ILR vignette from an expired passport to a current one.

Instead the ILR holder has to apply for a Biometric Residence Permit.

Although it says on there "You don’t have to apply for a BRP. You’ll get one automatically as part of your visa or immigration application." if you already have ILR then you're not going to be making a visa or immigration application and so wont get one automatically and therefore need to apply if you want one.

BTW, using an ILR stamp in an expired passport plus the current passport is still fine for entering the UK, but not, as said above, for proving one's right to work in the UK.

For that non EEA nationals with ILR need either an ILR stamp in a current passport or a valid BRP.

Of course, if, once qualified, one naturalises as British then the ILR stamp and/or BRP become superfluous. Indeed, once naturalised your BRP, if you have one, must be surrendered.

Both the UK and Thailand allow dual nationality.

[apetley]

ILR is not entry clearance as such; it is leave to remain.

It is no longer possible to transfer an ILR vignette from an expired passport to a current one.

Instead the ILR holder has to apply for a Biometric Residence Permit.

Although it says on there "You don’t have to apply for a BRP. You’ll get one automatically as part of your visa or immigration application." if you already have ILR then you're not going to be making a visa or immigration application and so wont get one automatically and therefore need to apply if you want one.

BTW, using an ILR stamp in an expired passport plus the current passport is still fine for entering the UK, but not, as said above, for proving one's right to work in the UK.

For that non EEA nationals with ILR need either an ILR stamp in a current passport or a valid BRP.

Of course, if, once qualified, one naturalises as British then the ILR stamp and/or BRP become superfluous. Indeed, once naturalised your BRP, if you have one, must be surrendered.

Both the UK and Thailand allow dual nationality.

Thanks very much for the clear information.

[Richard W]

Using the link above and having a good read am I right in understanding that having a Biometric Residence Permit should avoid this potential hassle? If so has anyone gone through the procedure of applying for one and what does it involve? Must admit never heard of one of these myself.

It costs a few hundred quid by post. Maintenance seems to be a lot of hassle. One can't renew it from outside the UK and one can only renew it once it has expired. Renewal on expiry is mandatory, but one should get a reminder before fines are levied. It expires every 10 years, except that all current cards for ILR/NTL will expire by the end of 2024. The extension to the end of the current 10-year period will be 'free'. There is a special visa for when one finds oneself outside the UK without a valid BRP because of expiry, theft, loss or damage. On renewal, one is requested to provide evidence of continual residence since ILR was granted.

BRP holders are required to report changes of address and nationality to the Home Office. As a possible exception to the renewal cycle, one has to get a new card on changes of name. I have a feeling the 'single identity' rule may bite at this point.

There is no appeal against refusal to issue a new BRP card.

[Farmer1956]

sounds like ignorance on the part of the employer, I know of lots of people including my own wife who legally worked whilst on ILR

Company I work for employs foreign nationals with the correct paperwork, so long as they have the correct visa or indefinite leave to remain there is no reason to deny them employment. I could be just lack of knowledge or simply discrimination.