US military units to stay for South China Sea patrols

[boomerangutang]

It looks as though Chinese fishing incident responses are guided by a robot. Every time there's a clash re; an incursion by a Chinese fishing boat, the same response comes forth from Beijing. Even before Beijing can read the report, they're sending out the official denial: Something like, "The Chinese registered fishing vessel was in international waters. We condemn any and every aggressive response to our fishing vessels being legally in international waters." bla bla bla

In other words, same with grabbing territory in the SCS, Chinese officialdom is incapable of ever admitting having done something wrong. Thaksin and Trump are like that. Same with Fat Boy Kim, Chairman Mao, Stalin, Idi Amin and Pol Pot.

When Obama apologises at Hiroshima later this week ...you can remove Uncle Sam from the list ...but he already missed the Vietnamese last week ...so I reckon that is a weak possibility ...

Speaking of the vietnameses, I recall your prediction that all of the nations that have competing claims in the South China Sea will let China have her way because of money. Do you think the Vietnamese agree? Looks like they're heading towards a shiny new alliance with the USA. What does that tell us about their feelings toward the Chinese?

Actually I got carried away in the single point I'd wanted to make to (hopefully) complement your post.

CCP had 25 years ago adopted their "Ripe Fruit" strategy toward Asean and the SCS.

The Boyz had figured that over time CCP could buy off Asean states, leaders, elites, with big bucks projects throughout Asean countries over a couple of decades. To include of course additional straight out bribes not associated with the massive payoffs involved in the specific projects.

The thinking, if one could say CCP Klutzes are capable of thought, was that Asean leaders would then give the Boyz a free pass in the SCS. This would include resources, existing features and of course the new artificial islands Beijing is constructing on the always submerged reefs. And the militarisation of all of 'em.

Didn't work out that way at all. Ripe fruit have turned into spoiled fruit and now sour grapes for the Boyz. Miscalculated again they did. The dream boyz of fantasy land continue to be trapped in their ancient mindset right smack here in the 21st century.

Deng had a brain but his descendants are klutzes, completely and entirely. Not worthy of anything much less respect.

Perhaps their plan had checkered success. From what I've seen of Thailand, it is bosom buddies with China to such an extent it can't say no to anything Chinese officials mention. Chinese special agents were able to come to Thailand, nab a 'wanted' person (he worked in one of the Chinese bookstores which sold items which were non-flattering of the Chinese politburo). The agents just picked him up and took him out of Thailand against his will. if/when Uigur (sp?) radicals get to China, Chinese officials tell Thais to arrest them and send them back. Thailand complies right away. I don't know if top Thai officials are taking lessons from their Chinese counterparts, but Thailand is resembling China more each week. Thailand plans single-gateway Internet and increased censorship of the press and internet, .....and Thailand's newspapers willingly publish Chinese propaganda. I mentioned that in this thread earlier. I noticed it in one of the two English-language dailies, so it's very likely happening in Thailand's Thai language newspapers - but no Thai would point that out (like I did) because they either don't notice it, or it's 'so what.' (mai pen rai).

[ilostmypassword]

Speaking of the vietnameses, I recall your prediction that all of the nations that have competing claims in the South China Sea will let China have her way because of money. Do you think the Vietnamese agree? Looks like they're heading towards a shiny new alliance with the USA. What does that tell us about their feelings toward the Chinese?

Actually I got carried away in the single point I'd wanted to make to (hopefully) complement your post.

CCP had 25 years ago adopted their "Ripe Fruit" strategy toward Asean and the SCS.

The Boyz had figured that over time CCP could buy off Asean states, leaders, elites, with big bucks projects throughout Asean countries over a couple of decades. To include of course additional straight out bribes not associated with the massive payoffs involved in the specific projects.

The thinking, if one could say CCP Klutzes are capable of thought, was that Asean leaders would then give the Boyz a free pass in the SCS. This would include resources, existing features and of course the new artificial islands Beijing is constructing on the always submerged reefs. And the militarisation of all of 'em.

Didn't work out that way at all. Ripe fruit have turned into spoiled fruit and now sour grapes for the Boyz. Miscalculated again they did. The dream boyz of fantasy land continue to be trapped in their ancient mindset right smack here in the 21st century.

Deng had a brain but his descendants are klutzes, completely and entirely. Not worthy of anything much less respect.

Don't worry when Trump wins ...the world would see the biggest idiot on the world stage and it will downright beat everyone in terms of stupidity , nonsensical you will have a blast defending him in the TVF then with every gaffle he makes every other day ....have a hear on his latest ...he's saying the Paris climate treaty is nonsense and Hiroshima is not worth an apology mr president elect looking like a fool

Actually, the Chinese govt. agrees with Trump about apologizing for Hiroshima. What does that say about them?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/27/hiroshima-bombing-was-japans-fault-says-chinese-state-media/

[Publicus]

Speaking of the vietnameses, I recall your prediction that all of the nations that have competing claims in the South China Sea will let China have her way because of money. Do you think the Vietnamese agree? Looks like they're heading towards a shiny new alliance with the USA. What does that tell us about their feelings toward the Chinese?

Actually I got carried away in the single point I'd wanted to make to (hopefully) complement your post.

CCP had 25 years ago adopted their "Ripe Fruit" strategy toward Asean and the SCS.

The Boyz had figured that over time CCP could buy off Asean states, leaders, elites, with big bucks projects throughout Asean countries over a couple of decades. To include of course additional straight out bribes not associated with the massive payoffs involved in the specific projects.

The thinking, if one could say CCP Klutzes are capable of thought, was that Asean leaders would then give the Boyz a free pass in the SCS. This would include resources, existing features and of course the new artificial islands Beijing is constructing on the always submerged reefs. And the militarisation of all of 'em.

Didn't work out that way at all. Ripe fruit have turned into spoiled fruit and now sour grapes for the Boyz. Miscalculated again they did. The dream boyz of fantasy land continue to be trapped in their ancient mindset right smack here in the 21st century.

Deng had a brain but his descendants are klutzes, completely and entirely. Not worthy of anything much less respect.

Perhaps their plan had checkered success. From what I've seen of Thailand, it is bosom buddies with China to such an extent it can't say no to anything Chinese officials mention. Chinese special agents were able to come to Thailand, nab a 'wanted' person (he worked in one of the Chinese bookstores which sold items which were non-flattering of the Chinese politburo). The agents just picked him up and took him out of Thailand against his will. if/when Uigur (sp?) radicals get to China, Chinese officials tell Thais to arrest them and send them back. Thailand complies right away. I don't know if top Thai officials are taking lessons from their Chinese counterparts, but Thailand is resembling China more each week. Thailand plans single-gateway Internet and increased censorship of the press and internet, .....and Thailand's newspapers willingly publish Chinese propaganda. I mentioned that in this thread earlier. I noticed it in one of the two English-language dailies, so it's very likely happening in Thailand's Thai language newspapers - but no Thai would point that out (like I did) because they either don't notice it, or it's 'so what.' (mai pen rai).

Thailand has not signed on to Beijing's statements on the SCS. Not presently and not in the past. No reason for Bangkok to sign on with CCP on the SCS at any point in the foreseeable future.

Cambodia, Laos and Brunei signed on to the CCP denunciation of the PCA then each of 'em individually denied Beijing's announcement of it. Thailand is not in that position cause Bangkok has not broken from the majority Asean position.

Moreover, Bangkok has effectively killed the CCP grandiose Silk Road project's maritime route from CCP to Iran and the Gulf. Bangkok absolutely will not agree to the CCP's grand design to plow and tear a canal through the Isthmus of Kra. Thaksin in 2001 had begun to set in motion a never-gained approval, however, since the 2006 coup the canal proposal has been sunk. The Bangkok ruling elites will not have it. Absolutely not and not for all the gold in the world -- or at least a chunk of it. No.

Nothing new either in Thailand's decision late last year to buy three new Made in China submarines for its already Made in China navy. Thailand has for decades been buying its naval rustbuckets ships from China thanks singlehandedly to Chavalit The Famously Corrupt. The Thai Air Force is meanwhile a subsidiary of the USAF and the Army puts all the weapons it buys from CCP in warehouses up north never used and never to be seen again.

Everyone knows US-Thai relations have recently been rocky but it's also agreed that this year each side is making genuine efforts. On SCS however, they're singing from the same hymnal. Thai government does mostly lipsyncing which is why nobody hears from 'em either way and that is fine for a time yet.

[keemapoot]

Actually I got carried away in the single point I'd wanted to make to (hopefully) complement your post.

CCP had 25 years ago adopted their "Ripe Fruit" strategy toward Asean and the SCS.

The Boyz had figured that over time CCP could buy off Asean states, leaders, elites, with big bucks projects throughout Asean countries over a couple of decades. To include of course additional straight out bribes not associated with the massive payoffs involved in the specific projects.

The thinking, if one could say CCP Klutzes are capable of thought, was that Asean leaders would then give the Boyz a free pass in the SCS. This would include resources, existing features and of course the new artificial islands Beijing is constructing on the always submerged reefs. And the militarisation of all of 'em.

Didn't work out that way at all. Ripe fruit have turned into spoiled fruit and now sour grapes for the Boyz. Miscalculated again they did. The dream boyz of fantasy land continue to be trapped in their ancient mindset right smack here in the 21st century.

Deng had a brain but his descendants are klutzes, completely and entirely. Not worthy of anything much less respect.

Perhaps their plan had checkered success. From what I've seen of Thailand, it is bosom buddies with China to such an extent it can't say no to anything Chinese officials mention. Chinese special agents were able to come to Thailand, nab a 'wanted' person (he worked in one of the Chinese bookstores which sold items which were non-flattering of the Chinese politburo). The agents just picked him up and took him out of Thailand against his will. if/when Uigur (sp?) radicals get to China, Chinese officials tell Thais to arrest them and send them back. Thailand complies right away. I don't know if top Thai officials are taking lessons from their Chinese counterparts, but Thailand is resembling China more each week. Thailand plans single-gateway Internet and increased censorship of the press and internet, .....and Thailand's newspapers willingly publish Chinese propaganda. I mentioned that in this thread earlier. I noticed it in one of the two English-language dailies, so it's very likely happening in Thailand's Thai language newspapers - but no Thai would point that out (like I did) because they either don't notice it, or it's 'so what.' (mai pen rai).

Thailand has not signed on to Beijing's statements on the SCS. Not presently and not in the past. No reason for Bangkok to sign on with CCP on the SCS at any point in the foreseeable future.

Cambodia, Laos and Brunei signed on to the CCP denunciation of the PCA then each of 'em individually denied Beijing's announcement of it. Thailand is not in that position cause Bangkok has not broken from the majority Asean position.

Moreover, Bangkok has effectively killed the CCP grandiose Silk Road project's maritime route from CCP to Iran and the Gulf. Bangkok absolutely will not agree to the CCP's grand design to plow and tear a canal through the Isthmus of Kra. Thaksin in 2001 had begun to set in motion a never-gained approval, however, since the 2006 coup the canal proposal has been sunk. The Bangkok ruling elites will not have it. Absolutely not and not for all the gold in the world -- or at least a chunk of it. No.

Nothing new either in Thailand's decision late last year to buy three new Made in China submarines for its already Made in China navy. Thailand has for decades been buying its naval rustbuckets ships from China thanks singlehandedly to Chavalit The Famously Corrupt. The Thai Air Force is meanwhile a subsidiary of the USAF and the Army puts all the weapons it buys from CCP in warehouses up north never used and never to be seen again.

Everyone knows US-Thai relations have recently been rocky but it's also agreed that this year each side is making genuine efforts. On SCS however, they're singing from the same hymnal. Thai government does mostly lipsyncing which is why nobody hears from 'em either way and that is fine for a time yet.

Your analysis is good and mostly correct. Thailand has always, and always will walk the tightrope between the US and China, with always a slightly heavy lean to the US, and the present military government is no exception. Let's not forget the deep years of cooperation and exercises. And, regarding Boomer's observation about Thailand's willful extradition of Chinese, that is also not correct. Thailand maintains no extradition treaties with any country, but yet, routinely extradites at the request of foreign countries showing probably cause. It is another long standing cooperation tradition that is not exclusive to China.

Regarding the SCS dispute, if Thailand is smart it will stay out of it, for its own good. Taking a side will not benefit Thailand in any way. the lipsyncing you're referring to is merely Thailand paying empty flattery to the Chinese, but doesn't have any weight. Thailand has its own issues of competitive cooperation with respect to Myanmar, where Thailand has been first on base on a few of the biggest projects outta the batter's box.

Finally, you are correct. The grandise silk road strategy, using Thailand as a conduit, is largely dead in the water now. We'll see if it gets revived. The big "Panama Canal" of Thailand is also dead before digging.

Overall, as you are fond of saying, with respect to Thailand and the SCS: nothing to see here. move along.

[Publicus]

An additional related note is that Thailand is the only country in the region that allows refugees from North Korea to travel on to a third country. This makes Pyongyang furious and Beijing highly ticked but the response in Bangkok is for each of the two to take it up with Uncle Sam that awful bully in Washington.

The signed Thai-US mutual defense treaty alliance is a remarkable thing simply because the Powers That Be in Bangkok actually signed something. It was way back when but this remains Thailand way back when.

We know Thais love to sit around a table on a creaky pier to eat drink under the stars to eventually make an agreement absent paper, pencils, pens, date stamps and all the other lawyerly stuff. The good people and honorable men understanding of government and governance.

US must've put a spell over the Thais back when to get 'em to sign --of all things-- a mutual defense treaty even if it was during the cold war. That it was before the US got involved in Vietnam makes it more remarkable.

Thais have never trusted those commies which is a powerful factor carried forward to the CCP and also for the Vietnam CP leadership and elites. Thais feel connected to the Chinese and to historical China, but not to the CCP. Thais haven't ever felt connected historically to Vietnam -- however, given ongoing developments in the region, this distance from VN is likely to leave the Thais self-excluded from the country that looks to be the oncoming Asean mainland powerhouse.

Thailand remaining distant from VN will of course sit well with the CCP Boyz in Beijing. However, Thailand remaining tight with the US when Washington and US corporations are being cozy with VN will tend to keep the Boyz up at night inside their huge ZhongNanHai. walled compound off Tiananmen Square.

[keemapoot]

^Yup, largely in agreement. However, even further, the Treaty of Amity still endures, which allows special treatment for US investors in Thailand, and the American Chamber of Commerce in Thailand, of which I am a member, has over 800 company members, 2500 individuals, and have invested over $50 billion in Thailand providing 250,000 local jobs. Furthermore, the Thai chamber reaches into Myanmar with a big burgeoning presence, in partnership with Thai business and government.

There is a huge American presence in Thailand that crosses business, government, diplomatic, military, educational and social spheres, not just on TVF.

In spite of the readjustment process with the latest (yawn) coup, things will normalize again. Lastly, your point about Thailand missing the boat on Vietnam, is also not strictly true. Thai companies are incredibly nimble and moving into Vietnam in a big way, assisted by government, and often in concert with American partners.

Edited May 29, 2016 by keemapoot

[keemapoot]

Japan is entering the fight with Vietnam, now after recently doing the same with the Philippines. It looks increasingly that China is being isolated on the SCS issue by the concerted effort and alliances being formed.

Japan, Vietnam agree to boost defense cooperation

TOKYO (Jiji Press) — Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and his Vietnamese counterpart, Nguyen Xuan Phuc, agreed on Saturday to strengthen their countries’ defense cooperation and exchanges in view of China’s moves to expand its military presence in the South China Sea.

At their meeting in Tokyo, Abe conveyed to Phuc Japan’s readiness to help enhance maritime security capabilities of Vietnam, which is in a territorial dispute with China in the South China Sea.

Specifically, Abe showed Tokyo’s intention to accelerate research on a plan to provide a newly built patrol ship to Vietnam.

http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0002979487

[boomerangutang]

I respectfully don't fully agree with the views above. I agree that Thailand plays both sides of the street, when being friendly with the US and China. However, I see a trend of Thailand increasingly cozying up to China, and easing away from the US. Thailand didn't agree to NASA setting up a weather station in Chon Buri. The 3 subs were mentioned, above. As far as I've heard, Thai military brass are still planning to buy them, even though farang-built subs would be better quality. Plus, having subs in a shallow sea is not smart. There are much smarter ways to spend military money.

Thaksin was cozying up to China, as are the current slew of self-appointed military men running the country. All or nearly all are Chinese descent. Same for nearly all business owners in Thailand, large and medium sized.

China wants Thailand to buy Chinese arms for obvious reasons (making money) but also to bring Thailand closer to the fold, if/when things get testy in the SCS.

[Publicus]

Japan is entering the fight with Vietnam, now after recently doing the same with the Philippines. It looks increasingly that China is being isolated on the SCS issue by the concerted effort and alliances being formed.

Japan, Vietnam agree to boost defense cooperation

TOKYO (Jiji Press) — Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and his Vietnamese counterpart, Nguyen Xuan Phuc, agreed on Saturday to strengthen their countries’ defense cooperation and exchanges in view of China’s moves to expand its military presence in the South China Sea.

At their meeting in Tokyo, Abe conveyed to Phuc Japan’s readiness to help enhance maritime security capabilities of Vietnam, which is in a territorial dispute with China in the South China Sea.

Specifically, Abe showed Tokyo’s intention to accelerate research on a plan to provide a newly built patrol ship to Vietnam.

http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0002979487

It hadn't been made public before but VN wants the same defense weaponry Tiawan has from USA. VN is talking serious high tech platforms that may however be beyond its budget for another decade.

All the same VN will surely get the F-16 Fighting Falcon the US provides to Taiwan, S Korea, Japan and which Nato ally Turkey sent up to blast out of the sky the Russian Su-24 last year. VN is however not likely to get the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter that will be delivered to each of the three countries beginning next year (neither will Turkey get it).

Here's some of what VN can presently afford, according to military and budget analyists at the American Institute in Taiwan (staffed by US DepState)...

TAIPEI, Taiwan — With the lifting of the US arms embargo to Vietnam, a US defense industry source indicates Hanoi is seeking to improve its air defense and maritime security capabilities with the procurement of F-16 fighter aircraft from the US Pentagon’s excess defense articles (EDA) program and refurbished P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft, armed with torpedoes.

The source also said Vietnam could seek US-made UAVs for maritime intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) missions.

Torpedoes were banned under the embargo, but now the Vietnamese want the same P-3 program the US sold to Taiwan, the source said. On the F-16 EDA, they want the same deal the Obama administration gave Indonesia.

http://www.aseanmildef.com/2016/05/vietnam-may-request-f-16s-p-3-orions.html

VN wants to use the South Korea-Indonesia model developed early this year to jointly fund purchase of high tech weapons programs to be shared among the two principal contracting countries. It's an 80-20 deal between S Korea and Indonesia to fund $15 billion of sophisticated electronics platforms of intelligence and anti-aircraft and missile defenses.

I'm looking now at a Defense One report of a document they got hold of from US Pacific Command in Hawaii entitled, “Socialist Republic of Vietnam — Country Security Cooperation Plan.” (It somehow got leaked yesterday )

Vietnam’s goals, according to the report, are to enhance its presence in the South China Sea with upgrades for submarine warfare, air-ground interdiction at sea, anti-surface ship warfare (ASUW), anti-submarine warfare (ASW), maritime domain awareness (MDA), early warning, and command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4-ISR).

On radar issues, the Vietnamese are procuring a high-frequency surface wave radar from the US for $30 million, according to the report.

Vietnam is interested in U.S. technology such as advanced surveillance systems, he said. “The Vietnamese do have short-range [Russian] surveillance systems on its coast,” Koh said. “They may be able to spot a huge target, but they have no idea what it is. It could be an aircraft carrier or a large tanker.”

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/asia-pacific/2016/05/25/vietnam-may-request-f-16s-p-3-orions-us/84904786/

Don't count on the Russian electronics systems to spot small targets either, such as CCP Chinese low profile civilian militia fishing boats.

[tonbridgebrit]

I respectfully don't fully agree with the views above. I agree that Thailand plays both sides of the street, when being friendly with the US and China. However, I see a trend of Thailand increasingly cozying up to China, and easing away from the US. Thailand didn't agree to NASA setting up a weather station in Chon Buri. The 3 subs were mentioned, above. As far as I've heard, Thai military brass are still planning to buy them, even though farang-built subs would be better quality. Plus, having subs in a shallow sea is not smart. There are much smarter ways to spend military money.

Thaksin was cozying up to China, as are the current slew of self-appointed military men running the country. All or nearly all are Chinese descent. Same for nearly all business owners in Thailand, large and medium sized.

China wants Thailand to buy Chinese arms for obvious reasons (making money) but also to bring Thailand closer to the fold, if/when things get testy in the SCS.

"I respectfully don't fully agree with the views above."

Boomer, what's really happening on this thread ?

Okay, you reckon that Thailand is drifting towards China, and drifting away from the USA. Well yes, the vast majority of foreigners in Thailand feel the same way. It's been going on for years and years. Okay, for the last two decades now, China's economy has grown rapidly. This rapid growth of the Chinese economy has meant China exporting a mountain of goods to America and Europe, and also to the countries of the Far East. Also, China has become a vast market for other countries to export their goods to. It's not just American companies who want to operate in China (and make a profit), companies all over the world (including companies from Thailand and other Far East countries) are trying to do the same thing.

And yes, China is flooding the Far East countries with Chinese tourists. Tourists from China are providing a greater and greater income for most of the Far East countries. Income that, well, just about every country wants.

Now then, some of the comments put up before your comment. What is the point of THAT writing ? Okay, in my opinion, that writing has been put up to paint a non-accurate or false picture as to what is really going on. As in constant comments going on and on about how ASEAN countries don't like China, and how these countries are moving away from China, and towards the USA. It's simply not happening. The countries in ASEAN trade more with China than they do with the USA, or just as much with China.

Indeed, most of the writing on the other posts is about how places like Vietnam hate Beiing, and how Vietnam is now 'in' with Washington. Whatever dis-like for China has been greatly over-blown by the posts. Reality is, is that Vietnam trades massively with China, and Vietnam receives four times as many tourists from China as it does from America. I put up the link on my previous post about this.

Only a tiny bit of writing has been done to try and make it look like that Thailand doesn't like China, and how Washington has massive links with Thailand. Well, we are all familiar with Thailand, we can see Thailand with our own eyes, we can see how fake it is when anybody tries to tell us that Thailand and China are drifting away from each other. That's why, only a little bit of writing has been put up to try and make it look like that Thailand hates Beijing. But few of us know a lot about the other ASEAN countries, few of us know about Vietnam. Hence, it's easier for whatever writer/writers to create a non-accurate or false picture regarding Vietnam.

As for Thailand. Whether it's Thaksin in charge, or Abhisit's Democrats, or the present military government, it still boils down to Thailand receiving a rapidly increasing amount of valuable tourism income from China, and more and more trade with China. And infra-structure projects carried out in Thailand by Chinese companies. Well, that's because those Chinese companies can do it cheaper than companies from Europe or Japan. And those companies have already shown that they can do such projects in China itself.

[tonbridgebrit]

Perhaps their plan had checkered success. From what I've seen of Thailand, it is bosom buddies with China to such an extent it can't say no to anything Chinese officials mention. Chinese special agents were able to come to Thailand, nab a 'wanted' person (he worked in one of the Chinese bookstores which sold items which were non-flattering of the Chinese politburo). The agents just picked him up and took him out of Thailand against his will. if/when Uigur (sp?) radicals get to China, Chinese officials tell Thais to arrest them and send them back. Thailand complies right away. I don't know if top Thai officials are taking lessons from their Chinese counterparts, but Thailand is resembling China more each week. Thailand plans single-gateway Internet and increased censorship of the press and internet, .....and Thailand's newspapers willingly publish Chinese propaganda. I mentioned that in this thread earlier. I noticed it in one of the two English-language dailies, so it's very likely happening in Thailand's Thai language newspapers - but no Thai would point that out (like I did) because they either don't notice it, or it's 'so what.' (mai pen rai).

"From what I've seen of Thailand, it is bosom buddies with China to such an extent it can't say no to anything Chinese officials mention."

Well, yes, when bearing in mind that Thailand (and it's not just Pattaya) is being flooded by Chinese tourists, bearing in mind the huge amount of trade that Thailand does with China, is it surprising that Thailand and China are bosom buddies ?

Yeah, so Chinese agents turned up in Thailand, arrested whatever Chinese man, and Thailand allowed it to happen. Yeah, if it was some other foreigner wanted by whatever other country, the agents would not have been allowed to do it. I can't see British agents being allowed to enter Thailand, and arrest whatever British (or other) man, and then go home to Britain with the suspect.

And them Uigurs, yes, Thailand co-operated with Beijing.

It's all being done, because Thailand benefits enormously from it's links with China. The flood of Chinese tourists, the trade, etc.

[keemapoot]

Malaysia weighed in yesterday on the SCS dispute with PM Najib taking a middle ground and calling for ASEAN to solve the dispute peacefully. Importantly, however, he said it had to be according to "norms, customs, and principles of International Law." This is cleverly worded though, so as not to negate China's "new interpretation" of International Law, nor the many hundreds of years of law that the rest of the world agrees upon.

Malaysia continues to play a middle ground here, while not explicitly condemning China's actions, there are tones of admission that China is being naughty, but that everyone should settle this peacefully, and that it is ASEAN's business to solve.

In this regard, Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak said he hoped the grouping of Southeast Asian nations would expedite the creation of a Code of Conduct for the South China Sea to maintain unity in the developing region.

“In the meantime, I urge all of us to recommit to the full and effective implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea.

“Moving forward, we will continue to rely on diplomacy and dialogue to peacefully resolve difference and disputes.

“We will do so in accordance with and in adherence to the norms, customs and principles of international law," Najib said in his keynote address at the opening of the 30th Asia- Pacific roundtable.

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2016/05/30/najib-razak-calls-on-asean-to-work-peaceful-resolutions-to-south-china-sea/

Edited May 30, 2016 by keemapoot

[55Jay]

U.S. flexes muscles as Asia worries about South China Sea row

Politics | Sat Jun 4, 2016 5:25am EDT

SINGAPORE | By David Brunnstrom and Greg Torode

The United States stepped up pressure on China on Saturday to rein in its actions in the South China Sea, with top defense officials underlining Washington's military superiority and vowing to remain the main guarantor of Asian security for decades to come.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-asia-security-idUSKCN0YQ01N?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FtopNews+%28News+%2F+US+%2F+Top+News%29

[Publicus]

Malaysia weighed in yesterday on the SCS dispute with PM Najib taking a middle ground and calling for ASEAN to solve the dispute peacefully. Importantly, however, he said it had to be according to "norms, customs, and principles of International Law." This is cleverly worded though, so as not to negate China's "new interpretation" of International Law, nor the many hundreds of years of law that the rest of the world agrees upon.

Malaysia continues to play a middle ground here, while not explicitly condemning China's actions, there are tones of admission that China is being naughty, but that everyone should settle this peacefully, and that it is ASEAN's business to solve.

In this regard, Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak said he hoped the grouping of Southeast Asian nations would expedite the creation of a Code of Conduct for the South China Sea to maintain unity in the developing region.

“In the meantime, I urge all of us to recommit to the full and effective implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea.

“Moving forward, we will continue to rely on diplomacy and dialogue to peacefully resolve difference and disputes.

“We will do so in accordance with and in adherence to the norms, customs and principles of international law," Najib said in his keynote address at the opening of the 30th Asia- Pacific roundtable.

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2016/05/30/najib-razak-calls-on-asean-to-work-peaceful-resolutions-to-south-china-sea/

Malaysia knows what to say and how to say it and Malaysia knows what to do. As always, pay the greater attention to the latter.

Malaysia and all of Asean know CCP killed the Code of Conduct for the SCS at the Asean annual meeting in Cambodia in 2012 hosted by Beijing's Boy Hun Sen.

The 2002 COC had been mutually agreed between Asean and CCP after several years of negotiations initiated by Asean. Asean had got Beijing's (duplicitous) signature on the COC due to increased CCP irregularities in the SCS that had mobilised the concerns of Asean, Vietnam in particular which had lost much of the Paracels after a PLA Navy island assault and sea battle several years earlier.

Simultaneously, CCP in 2012 in Phnom Penh killed off the Asean proposed upgraded Declaration on the Conduct of the Parties in the South China Sea. Since 2012 the only rules of conduct and behaviors that apply in the SCS have been the first and strongest on the scene, first and strongest rule. We know that means CCP Dictators in Beijing. Malaysia knows this too...and so does all of Asean know it.

Hence SecDef Ashton Carter has been conferencing on the scene with allies and partners in the region since early last year. The strategising includes landings on board a US aircraft carrier underway in the SCS with a leading Asean defense minister with him each time...three times to date on three different carriers.

Carter Visits USS Roosevelt in South China Sea

U.S. sailors salute U.S Defense Secretary Ash Carter as he and Malaysian Defense

Minister Hishammuddin Hussein depart the USS Theodore Roosevelt after inspecting

the aircraft carrier underway in the South China Sea, Nov. 5, 2015. DoD photo by

U.S. Air Force Senior Master Sgt. Adrian Cadiz

"There is a lot of concern about Chinese behavior out here," he said.

Those concerns, Carter said, were discussed yesterday at the Association of Southeast Asian Nations Defense Ministers’ Meeting - Plus in Malaysia’s capital city, Kuala Lumpur.

"Many countries in the region are coming to the United States and asking us to do more with them so that we can keep the peace out here," he said.

Carter toured the aircraft carrier with Malaysian Defense Minister Hishammuddin Hussein. Visiting the ship with his Malaysian counterpart, Carter said, indicates the demand for American presence in the Asia-Pacific region.

http://www.defense.gov/News-Article-View/Article/627872/carter-visits-uss-roosevelt-in-south-china-sea

In this Dec. 20, 2015 photo, US Secretary of Defense Ash Carter observes flight

operations as he inspects the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower aircraft carrier underway in

the South China Sea with India's Minister of Defense Manohar Parrikar.

DoD/Adrian Cadiz/Released

In this image released by the US Department of Defense, US Secretary of Defense Ashton

Carter and Philippine Defense Minister Voltaire Gazmin (2nd R) view operations on the

USS Stennis aircraft carrier as it sails the South China Sea on April 15, 2016. (AFP photo)

CCP all last year and now to date this year has had a "research" vessel anchored inside the Malaysia EEZ. Malaysia of course does not approve.

It is worthly of note that Malaysia hosts an Australian Air Force P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft that regularly flies patrols over the SCS disputed islands from Anderson Air Field in eastern Malaysia.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Publicus

[boomerangutang]

tonbridgebrit, we mostly agree on issues relating to China-Thailand relations. You mention Chinese tourists contributing to Thailand's income. True to a point. However, much of the money Chinese spend are for package deals which benefit Chinese travel brokers in China and, to some extent, some Thai (and mostly Chinese-Thai) managers in Thailand. The tourists spend the lion's share of their vacation money on the package (with a bit of that going to Chinese-Thai coordinators in Thailand), and spend little while in Thailand. They may buy a few little trinkets, a t-shirt or some perfume, but they probably won't spend anything added for food, lodging, tours or transport because those things are covered in the discount package price.

I have a Thai friend who runs a shop in Mae Sai. Every day, at least several large double decker tour buses packed with Chinese tourists park on the road directly in front of her shop. Dozens of Chinese tourists pile out. What do they buy from her shop? Nearly nothing. Maybe a pack of gum. Granted, she admits she should sell something different than her drug-store crap. But the point is, Chinese tourists are a lot different than farang tourists in terms of day-to-day spending. Sorry to get off topic.

As for Malaysia and the SCS debacle: No surprise. And similar to the pantywaist attitude of Thailand. They're like high school authorities who notice a group of neighborhood thugs coming on the playground to harass the girls, touching them, speaking crudely. Instead of kicking the thugs off campus (kicking China out of the SCS), the authorities call out from the windows, "ok kids. Let's everybody get along. We don't want any troubles. Let's all be peaceful, Ok?"

[keemapoot]

Malaysia weighed in yesterday on the SCS dispute with PM Najib taking a middle ground and calling for ASEAN to solve the dispute peacefully. Importantly, however, he said it had to be according to "norms, customs, and principles of International Law." This is cleverly worded though, so as not to negate China's "new interpretation" of International Law, nor the many hundreds of years of law that the rest of the world agrees upon.

Malaysia continues to play a middle ground here, while not explicitly condemning China's actions, there are tones of admission that China is being naughty, but that everyone should settle this peacefully, and that it is ASEAN's business to solve.

In this regard, Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak said he hoped the grouping of Southeast Asian nations would expedite the creation of a Code of Conduct for the South China Sea to maintain unity in the developing region.

“In the meantime, I urge all of us to recommit to the full and effective implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea.

“Moving forward, we will continue to rely on diplomacy and dialogue to peacefully resolve difference and disputes.

“We will do so in accordance with and in adherence to the norms, customs and principles of international law," Najib said in his keynote address at the opening of the 30th Asia- Pacific roundtable.

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2016/05/30/najib-razak-calls-on-asean-to-work-peaceful-resolutions-to-south-china-sea/

Malaysia knows what to say and how to say it and Malaysia knows what to do. As always, pay the greater attention to the latter.

Malaysia and all of Asean know CCP killed the Code of Conduct for the SCS at the Asean annual meeting in Cambodia in 2012 hosted by Beijing's Boy Hun Sen.

The 2002 COC had been mutually agreed between Asean and CCP after several years of negotiations initiated by Asean. Asean had got Beijing's (duplicitous) signature on the COC due to increased CCP irregularities in the SCS that had mobilised the concerns of Asean, Vietnam in particular which had lost much of the Paracels after a PLA Navy island assault and sea battle several years earlier.

Simultaneously, CCP in 2012 in Phnom Penh killed off the Asean proposed upgraded Declaration on the Conduct of the Parties in the South China Sea. Since 2012 the only rules of conduct and behaviors that apply in the SCS have been the first and strongest on the scene, first and strongest rule. We know that means CCP Dictators in Beijing. Malaysia knows this too...and so does all of Asean know it.

Hence SecDef Ashton Carter has been conferencing on the scene with allies and partners in the region since early last year. The strategising includes landings on board a US aircraft carrier underway in the SCS with a leading Asean defense minister with him each time...three times to date on three different carriers.

Carter Visits USS Roosevelt in South China Sea

U.S. sailors salute U.S Defense Secretary Ash Carter as he and Malaysian Defense

Minister Hishammuddin Hussein depart the USS Theodore Roosevelt after inspecting

the aircraft carrier underway in the South China Sea, Nov. 5, 2015. DoD photo by

U.S. Air Force Senior Master Sgt. Adrian Cadiz

"There is a lot of concern about Chinese behavior out here," he said.

Those concerns, Carter said, were discussed yesterday at the Association of Southeast Asian Nations Defense Ministers’ Meeting - Plus in Malaysia’s capital city, Kuala Lumpur.

"Many countries in the region are coming to the United States and asking us to do more with them so that we can keep the peace out here," he said.

Carter toured the aircraft carrier with Malaysian Defense Minister Hishammuddin Hussein. Visiting the ship with his Malaysian counterpart, Carter said, indicates the demand for American presence in the Asia-Pacific region.

http://www.defense.gov/News-Article-View/Article/627872/carter-visits-uss-roosevelt-in-south-china-sea

In this Dec. 20, 2015 photo, US Secretary of Defense Ash Carter observes flight

operations as he inspects the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower aircraft carrier underway in

the South China Sea with India's Minister of Defense Manohar Parrikar.

DoD/Adrian Cadiz/Released

In this image released by the US Department of Defense, US Secretary of Defense Ashton

Carter and Philippine Defense Minister Voltaire Gazmin (2nd R) view operations on the

USS Stennis aircraft carrier as it sails the South China Sea on April 15, 2016. (AFP photo)

CCP all last year and now to date this year has had a "research" vessel anchored inside the Malaysia EEZ. Malaysia of course does not approve.

It is worthly of note that Malaysia hosts an Australian Air Force P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft that regularly flies patrols over the SCS disputed islands from Anderson Air Field in eastern Malaysia.

Ash Carter has been taking some bold moves recently. I only have time to cite this article in the Military Times, because another Strand Sour with Mandalay rum awaits me in the bar in Yangon, as my pals Somerset Maugham and Rudyard Kipling await my return.

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2016/06/04/ash-carter-proposes-asia-pacific-security-network/85398726/

[Publicus]

Yes, Scarborough Shoals well within the Philippines EEZ and well within range of missiles aimed at Manila and US forces in the Phils under the new additional provisions of the mutual defense treaty.

Waiting to see if CCP Dictators in Beijing try to move against Scarborough. It would really be a big error for Beijing to do it and the talk has been that CCP would do it to show concrete defiance of the PCA in The Hague.

CCP has somewhat relieved concerns in this respect however in conceding publicly last month US is the dominant nation for the indefinite future. Sounds like the US finally got its act together in the SCS. If so, it's not been an easy task however especially considering the dunderheads in both Beijing and in, yes, Washington.

The Obama-Clinton "Pivot" is excellent geostrategic and geo-economic stuff for the USA. It's been popular and welcome to Asean and the region since its announcement in 2012 (the opposite however in Beijing). There'd been serious doubt however as Putin, Ukraine, Daesh, Iran, ME and Israel combined have been serious "distractions" to it (the view from over here).

Putin finally got put to bed by sanctions, the collapse of oil and other energy prices and the like. The Brics collapsed and shattered with India coming out of it as a partner of....the target countries of CCP Dictators in Beijing and concomitantly as a new "strategic partner" not only of the US, but of Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, Japan. Indonesia early last year sent 40 naval ships to the Natuna archipelago at the southern end of the nine-dashed line, an act that one suspects led Beijing to just recently confirm the feature as truly Indonesian.

Ashton Carter's new Security Network is the successful Son of Democracy Diamond offspring Carter formulated after the Diamond first proposed by PM Shinzo Abe in 2013 fell flat. Abe had proposed his Diamond from Hawaii to Australia on to India across Asean back up to S Korea and Japan back across the Pacific. Trouble wasn't so much Abe or his idea. Problem was nobody named was ready for it in 2013.

Ash Carter the hawk and CCP The Klutzes have reversed all of that. Now everybody is more than ready for it and we're all going for it. Just about all of us.

I'd mentioned the turning point in CCP belligerence in the East Sea against the Japanese Senkaku Is. which went on from 2009-2013 and after the world came to Beijing for the Summer Olympics. Lotta ramings there over the time, from fishing boats, various Coast Guards to include USN ships surrounded by CCP sandpebbles fishing boats.

It all came to a close only after the US made clear the Senkakus are included in the US-Japan mutual defense treaty from the years right after WW2. CCP gave it one final go by suddenly and with a great surprise declaring an Air Defense Identification Zone over the area, announcing severe military consequences to any violators of it. Two dayze later US flew two unarmed nuclear capable B-52 bombers through the ADIZ then everyone went home. Things there have stayed quiet since. In fact the ADIZ is aerial swiss cheese as US, Japan, S Korea still fly through it at will without consequence to 'em.

US has now made clear Scarborough is sovereign to the Phils by post WW2 treaties to include the Phils-US mutual defense treaty. Ash Carter has been making the point decidedly in recent months. Carter btw became SecDef early last year then promptly ended 15 years of US strategic ambiguity by putting Russia behind Door Number One, CCP behind Door Number Two and Iran behind Door Number Three. They're all there and lined up properly clear as day.

Ash Carter has worked directly under or has formally advised 11 secretaries of defense. He was number one Pentagon guy for weapons and strategy before he became Number One of the Whole Works Itself. Carter knows what works and what doesn't work. The new Air-Sea Battle Doctrine initially devised as a specific response to a rising CCP China is a winner. Air-Land Combat is, well, everyone knows about that one.

Looks like CCP have decided they'd rather open the door for Ash Carter than to have Carter do his thing, which is to raise his foot and lower his shoulder then go straight on through it. CCP are still on the islands both natural and artificial but CCP are now facilitating tourists rather than sending in more and new hardhats.

PCA in The Hague will rule soon so we'll also know more soon cause it's up to the Boyz how this goes from then and there. As things are, Ash Carter would have put US Marines on Scarborough already but Carter is only getting 99% of what he sees that needs to be done.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Publicus

[LawrenceChee]

The USA continues with its spy plane missions that is counterproductive and does not help in any lone term relationship building

It establishes the brash ego that we are USA and we have a right to go anywhere and when its intercepted by Chinese military planes , the media will paint it as aggressive interception and dangerous moves from the Chinese military

When you stop flying close to people's airspace this incidents will stop and trust can build up

I don't believe the USA will find it funny if the Russians and Chinese starts from this week to fly close to the USA coast lines and start its spying missions in great intensity

One would question the motives as one would question what does the USA think these missions will help in actually deescalating the tense situation in SCS ?

The USA powers have acted irresponsible and should review what they are doing to its trading partner and ally in Asia

The only danger here is Kim and Japan should cooperate and assist that situation instead of goading the Americans like a geisha for attention

Edited June 9, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[55Jay]

It would be more lucid to question the motives and actions of the Chinese gov in and around the SCS, which, of course, several nations have and continue to do. You know this, of course, but insist on these intentionally obtuse commentaries, fabricating a propaganda worthy narrative that, somehow, the US is responsible for all this.

China is the kid with cake icing and candy sprinkles smeared all over its face and hands, being accused of having stolen a chunk of birthday cake by the adults in the room.

Who, me? Cake? What cake?

And then.........

[LawrenceChee]

It would be more lucid to question the motives and actions of the Chinese gov in and around the SCS, which, of course, several nations have and continue to do. You know this, of course, but insist on these intentionally obtuse commentaries, fabricating a propaganda worthy narrative that, somehow, the US is responsible for all this.

China is the kid with cake icing and candy sprinkles smeared all over its face and hands, being accused of having stolen a chunk of birthday cake by the adults in the room.

Who, me? Cake? What cake?

lo-res-7855.jpg

And then.........

6e6ad6aed7b41f4e.jpg

Let's not kid ourselves ...SCS is about resources and today the Philippines new president is willing to trade and co explore with China proving the point again that it's about trade and he is willing quote " keep his mouth shut for the next 6 years" if he gets the trains built in Mindano and get co explore rights as mentioned in WSJ

This again goes back to the point that Philippines played USA acting as the damsel when their real interest is a better trade deal

Remember while every country in Asia talks trade only the USA has being replying with military assets and marketing this to the media as a possible armed conflict and takeover of the island

The reality is making the USA blush because all the ASEAN countries is doing is to make sure they don't get missed out on the possible trade $$$

China is the fat kid here in the region with the cakes and trade deals and they want to trade not invade ....and again as a superpower they want to trade at a point to their own advantage and strategic needs ...nothing wrong with that.

Every major G5 / G7 country goes into negotiations in a position of power and negotiate from there...that's reality. So while we may feel for the smaller countries , the countries in ASEAN and SCS disputes are not pushover and China has no intention of underestimating them at the table while they negotiate

It's not the usual operating USA matrix we understand that as you are more used to bombing and then talks later on deals ...here there is no opportunity for the fireworks show as Asians are not interested in wasting time and money

[HenryB]

Can you believe that Obama Kerry and The Clinton's will get the United States in a Huge World War III

If you want peace Vote for Trump the Peace Candidate

[HenryB]

Bernie should be Trump VP this way their will Peace in the World

[55Jay]

It would be more lucid to question the motives and actions of the Chinese gov in and around the SCS, which, of course, several nations have and continue to do. You know this, of course, but insist on these intentionally obtuse commentaries, fabricating a propaganda worthy narrative that, somehow, the US is responsible for all this.

China is the kid with cake icing and candy sprinkles smeared all over its face and hands, being accused of having stolen a chunk of birthday cake by the adults in the room.

Who, me? Cake? What cake?

lo-res-7855.jpg

And then.........

6e6ad6aed7b41f4e.jpg

Let's not kid ourselves ...SCS is about resources and today the Philippines new president is willing to trade and co explore with China proving the point again that it's about trade and he is willing quote " keep his mouth shut for the next 6 years" if he gets the trains built in Mindano and get co explore rights as mentioned in WSJ

This again goes back to the point that Philippines played USA acting as the damsel when their real interest is a better trade deal

Remember while every country in Asia talks trade only the USA has being replying with military assets and marketing this to the media as a possible armed conflict and takeover of the island

The reality is making the USA blush because all the ASEAN countries is doing is to make sure they don't get missed out on the possible trade $$$

China is the fat kid here in the region with the cakes and trade deals and they want to trade not invade ....and again as a superpower they want to trade at a point to their own advantage and strategic needs ...nothing wrong with that.

Every major G5 / G7 country goes into negotiations in a position of power and negotiate from there...that's reality. So while we may feel for the smaller countries , the countries in ASEAN and SCS disputes are not pushover and China has no intention of underestimating them at the table while they negotiate

It's not the usual operating USA matrix we understand that as you are more used to bombing and then talks later on deals ...here there is no opportunity for the fireworks show as Asians are not interested in wasting time and money

As before, when your poppy cock is called out for what it is, you transition over to this economic talking point. Not that there isn't truth to it, but it is just another of your well-trodden deflections to avoid the scary proposition of holding the Chinese gov accountable.

As Publicus would say, "The Boyz" are powerless to stop all this fussy defiance. The normal play book just doesn't work outside their communist bubble. They've drawn some arbitrary lines on paper, chest thumping and warning others not to cross, and are using its own people as human shields. Despicable tyrants.

[LawrenceChee]

It would be more lucid to question the motives and actions of the Chinese gov in and around the SCS, which, of course, several nations have and continue to do. You know this, of course, but insist on these intentionally obtuse commentaries, fabricating a propaganda worthy narrative that, somehow, the US is responsible for all this.

China is the kid with cake icing and candy sprinkles smeared all over its face and hands, being accused of having stolen a chunk of birthday cake by the adults in the room.

Who, me? Cake? What cake?

lo-res-7855.jpg

And then.........

6e6ad6aed7b41f4e.jpg

Let's not kid ourselves ...SCS is about resources and today the Philippines new president is willing to trade and co explore with China proving the point again that it's about trade and he is willing quote " keep his mouth shut for the next 6 years" if he gets the trains built in Mindano and get co explore rights as mentioned in WSJ

This again goes back to the point that Philippines played USA acting as the damsel when their real interest is a better trade deal

Remember while every country in Asia talks trade only the USA has being replying with military assets and marketing this to the media as a possible armed conflict and takeover of the island

The reality is making the USA blush because all the ASEAN countries is doing is to make sure they don't get missed out on the possible trade $$$

China is the fat kid here in the region with the cakes and trade deals and they want to trade not invade ....and again as a superpower they want to trade at a point to their own advantage and strategic needs ...nothing wrong with that.

Every major G5 / G7 country goes into negotiations in a position of power and negotiate from there...that's reality. So while we may feel for the smaller countries , the countries in ASEAN and SCS disputes are not pushover and China has no intention of underestimating them at the table while they negotiate

It's not the usual operating USA matrix we understand that as you are more used to bombing and then talks later on deals ...here there is no opportunity for the fireworks show as Asians are not interested in wasting time and money

As before, when your poppy cock is called out for what it is, you transition over to this economic talking point. Not that there isn't truth to it, but it is just another of your well-trodden deflections to avoid the scary proposition of holding the Chinese gov accountable.

As Publicus would say, "The Boyz" are powerless to stop all this fussy defiance. The normal play book just doesn't work outside their communist bubble. They've drawn some arbitrary lines on paper, chest thumping and warning others not to cross, and are using its own people as human shields. Despicable tyrants.

You can join the tirades against china ...but when you are wrong you use degrading or names terms against a country which depicts your maturity / viewpoints and refused to see logic

If you have been following my threads , I am not a blind follower , there is a lot of critique of the government but it happens in closed doors and it's real but because individuals like you and P are not invited it does not mean it doesn't happen. I have bee providing feedback to The Central government for years and over the years the logical minded have seen how progress has happened and there are area where they can do better there is no doubt on that

Just that skewed viewpoints does not help China improve ...it's one of the most morphed communist countries with such a big population to take care of and world affairs to engage in. If will have to navigate a tricky path of staying modern and relevant while remaining true to its governance and communist context

It's complex and when viewed as a totality , you can continue your name calling with the Trump gang but to the logical minded , there is no denying here China has progressed and more to be done but China will do it in its own timeline and not allow any other country to challenge its status in an unfair manner

The USA have acted irresponsibly in the SCS conflict and aim against to escalate non issues into issues but the ASEAN countries have been chuckling none stop because unfortunately in the matters of foreign affairs , the USA have always relied on a strong military as a reply but there is more to that

No one is taking away the fact that the USA has a big heart and wants to help in good intentions mostly but it's naiveness is its Achilles heel ...the businessman I have met from USA are thankfully not as clueless as some of their ministers ...

Edited June 9, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[55Jay]

It would be more lucid to question the motives and actions of the Chinese gov in and around the SCS, which, of course, several nations have and continue to do. You know this, of course, but insist on these intentionally obtuse commentaries, fabricating a propaganda worthy narrative that, somehow, the US is responsible for all this.

China is the kid with cake icing and candy sprinkles smeared all over its face and hands, being accused of having stolen a chunk of birthday cake by the adults in the room.

Who, me? Cake? What cake?

lo-res-7855.jpg

And then.........

6e6ad6aed7b41f4e.jpg

Let's not kid ourselves ...SCS is about resources and today the Philippines new president is willing to trade and co explore with China proving the point again that it's about trade and he is willing quote " keep his mouth shut for the next 6 years" if he gets the trains built in Mindano and get co explore rights as mentioned in WSJ

This again goes back to the point that Philippines played USA acting as the damsel when their real interest is a better trade deal

Remember while every country in Asia talks trade only the USA has being replying with military assets and marketing this to the media as a possible armed conflict and takeover of the island

The reality is making the USA blush because all the ASEAN countries is doing is to make sure they don't get missed out on the possible trade $$$

China is the fat kid here in the region with the cakes and trade deals and they want to trade not invade ....and again as a superpower they want to trade at a point to their own advantage and strategic needs ...nothing wrong with that.

Every major G5 / G7 country goes into negotiations in a position of power and negotiate from there...that's reality. So while we may feel for the smaller countries , the countries in ASEAN and SCS disputes are not pushover and China has no intention of underestimating them at the table while they negotiate

It's not the usual operating USA matrix we understand that as you are more used to bombing and then talks later on deals ...here there is no opportunity for the fireworks show as Asians are not interested in wasting time and money

As before, when your poppy cock is called out for what it is, you transition over to this economic talking point. Not that there isn't truth to it, but it is just another of your well-trodden deflections to avoid the scary proposition of holding the Chinese gov accountable.

As Publicus would say, "The Boyz" are powerless to stop all this fussy defiance. The normal play book just doesn't work outside their communist bubble. They've drawn some arbitrary lines on paper, chest thumping and warning others not to cross, and are using its own people as human shields. Despicable tyrants.

You can join the tirades against china ...but when you are wrong you use degrading or names terms against a country which depicts your maturity / viewpoints and refused to see logic

If you have been following my threads , I am not a blind follower , there is a lot of critique of the government but it happens in closed doors and it's real but because individuals like you and P are not invited it does not mean it doesn't happen. I have bee providing feedback to The Central government for years and over the years the logical minded have seen how progress has happened and there are area where they can do better there is no doubt on that

Just that skewed viewpoints does not help China improve ...it's one of the most morphed communist countries with such a big population to take care of and world affairs to engage in. If will have to navigate a tricky path of staying modern and relevant while remaining true to its governance and communist context

It's complex and when viewed as a totality , you can continue your name calling with the Trump gang but to the logical minded , there is no denying here China has progressed and more to be done but China will do it in its own timeline and not allow any other country to challenge its status in an unfair manner

The USA have acted irresponsibly in the SCS conflict and aim against to escalate non issues into issues but the ASEAN countries have been chuckling none stop because unfortunately in the matters of foreign affairs , the USA have always relied on a strong military as a reply but there is more to that

No one is taking away the fact that the USA has a big heart and wants to help in good intentions mostly but it's naiveness is its Achilles heel ...the businessman I have met from USA are thankfully not as clueless as some of their ministers ...

It's not a case of whether I'm wrong, it's the fact China is and you seem altogether unwilling to acknowledge the obvious. You are thin skinned on behalf of China, and attempt to deflect by fabricating alternative narratives about the US in this matter.

China has acted irresponsibly. They continue to do so in the face of mounting protest, which exacerbates tensions even further. While there are layers and other factors, the underlying, core issue isn't rocket science.

[LawrenceChee]

It would be more lucid to question the motives and actions of the Chinese gov in and around the SCS, which, of course, several nations have and continue to do. You know this, of course, but insist on these intentionally obtuse commentaries, fabricating a propaganda worthy narrative that, somehow, the US is responsible for all this.

China is the kid with cake icing and candy sprinkles smeared all over its face and hands, being accused of having stolen a chunk of birthday cake by the adults in the room.

Who, me? Cake? What cake?
lo-res-7855.jpg

And then.........
6e6ad6aed7b41f4e.jpg

Let's not kid ourselves ...SCS is about resources and today the Philippines new president is willing to trade and co explore with China proving the point again that it's about trade and he is willing quote " keep his mouth shut for the next 6 years" if he gets the trains built in Mindano and get co explore rights as mentioned in WSJ

This again goes back to the point that Philippines played USA acting as the damsel when their real interest is a better trade deal

Remember while every country in Asia talks trade only the USA has being replying with military assets and marketing this to the media as a possible armed conflict and takeover of the island

The reality is making the USA blush because all the ASEAN countries is doing is to make sure they don't get missed out on the possible trade $$$

China is the fat kid here in the region with the cakes and trade deals and they want to trade not invade ....and again as a superpower they want to trade at a point to their own advantage and strategic needs ...nothing wrong with that.

Every major G5 / G7 country goes into negotiations in a position of power and negotiate from there...that's reality. So while we may feel for the smaller countries , the countries in ASEAN and SCS disputes are not pushover and China has no intention of underestimating them at the table while they negotiate

It's not the usual operating USA matrix we understand that as you are more used to bombing and then talks later on deals ...here there is no opportunity for the fireworks show as Asians are not interested in wasting time and money

As before, when your poppy cock is called out for what it is, you transition over to this economic talking point. Not that there isn't truth to it, but it is just another of your well-trodden deflections to avoid the scary proposition of holding the Chinese gov accountable.

As Publicus would say, "The Boyz" are powerless to stop all this fussy defiance. The normal play book just doesn't work outside their communist bubble. They've drawn some arbitrary lines on paper, chest thumping and warning others not to cross, and are using its own people as human shields. Despicable tyrants.

You can join the tirades against china ...but when you are wrong you use degrading or names terms against a country which depicts your maturity / viewpoints and refused to see logic

If you have been following my threads , I am not a blind follower , there is a lot of critique of the government but it happens in closed doors and it's real but because individuals like you and P are not invited it does not mean it doesn't happen. I have bee providing feedback to The Central government for years and over the years the logical minded have seen how progress has happened and there are area where they can do better there is no doubt on that

Just that skewed viewpoints does not help China improve ...it's one of the most morphed communist countries with such a big population to take care of and world affairs to engage in. If will have to navigate a tricky path of staying modern and relevant while remaining true to its governance and communist context

It's complex and when viewed as a totality , you can continue your name calling with the Trump gang but to the logical minded , there is no denying here China has progressed and more to be done but China will do it in its own timeline and not allow any other country to challenge its status in an unfair manner

The USA have acted irresponsibly in the SCS conflict and aim against to escalate non issues into issues but the ASEAN countries have been chuckling none stop because unfortunately in the matters of foreign affairs , the USA have always relied on a strong military as a reply but there is more to that

No one is taking away the fact that the USA has a big heart and wants to help in good intentions mostly but it's naiveness is its Achilles heel ...the businessman I have met from USA are thankfully not as clueless as some of their ministers ...

It's not a case of whether I'm wrong, it's the fact China is and you seem altogether unwilling to acknowledge the obvious. You are thin skinned on behalf of China, and attempt to deflect by fabricating alternative narratives about the US in this matter.

China has acted irresponsibly. They continue to do so in the face of mounting protest, which exacerbates tensions even further. While there are layers and other factors, the underlying, core issue isn't rocket science.

No one is thin skinned ...China deserves critique and has them behind closed doors

You can see Philippines which has been crying foul for 6 years under Aquino has a new boss for the next 6 years ...Duerte wants a railway in his home province in exchange for joint explorations rights which China is promising to negotiate on

So you can see if you remain clear minded , politics is fluid and the incoming president believes in bilateral talks with China and wants a deal done in what he feels is in Philippine favor not a court case ruling about some rocks ...6 years later the next president may not want this and China may have to negotiate again but this is life and not just missiles flying and testing your trading partners patience by bringing in all your warships and lining them up in a formation

What does that solve or compel China to do ? China is not scared of the USA military....

China has always wanted bilateral talks not an ASEAN one but USA butts in thinking its needed but it's not yet in the meantime the USA continues to conduct military exercises not China so who is escalating the military situation when there is none ?

[ilostmypassword]

You can see Philippines which has been crying foul for 6 years under Aquino has a new boss for the next 6 years ...Duerte wants a railway in his home province in exchange for joint explorations rights which China is promising to negotiate on

So you can see if you remain clear minded , politics is fluid and the incoming president believes in bilateral talks with China and wants a deal done in what he feels is in Philippine favor not a court case ruling about some rocks ...6 years later the next president may not want this and China may have to negotiate again but this is life and not just missiles flying and testing your trading partners patience by bringing in all your warships and lining them up in a formation

What does that solve or compel China to do ? China is not scared of the USA military....

China has always wanted bilateral talks not an ASEAN one but USA butts in thinking its needed but it's not yet in the meantime the USA continues to conduct military exercises not China so who is escalating the military situation when there is none ?

No one is thin skinned ...China deserves critique and has them behind closed doors

This kind of nonsense condemns itself.

[ilostmypassword]

It would be more lucid to question the motives and actions of the Chinese gov in and around the SCS, which, of course, several nations have and continue to do. You know this, of course, but insist on these intentionally obtuse commentaries, fabricating a propaganda worthy narrative that, somehow, the US is responsible for all this.

China is the kid with cake icing and candy sprinkles smeared all over its face and hands, being accused of having stolen a chunk of birthday cake by the adults in the room.

Who, me? Cake? What cake?

lo-res-7855.jpg

And then.........

6e6ad6aed7b41f4e.jpg

Let's not kid ourselves ...SCS is about resources and today the Philippines new president is willing to trade and co explore with China proving the point again that it's about trade and he is willing quote " keep his mouth shut for the next 6 years" if he gets the trains built in Mindano and get co explore rights as mentioned in WSJ

This again goes back to the point that Philippines played USA acting as the damsel when their real interest is a better trade deal

Remember while every country in Asia talks trade only the USA has being replying with military assets and marketing this to the media as a possible armed conflict and takeover of the island

The reality is making the USA blush because all the ASEAN countries is doing is to make sure they don't get missed out on the possible trade $$$

China is the fat kid here in the region with the cakes and trade deals and they want to trade not invade ....and again as a superpower they want to trade at a point to their own advantage and strategic needs ...nothing wrong with that.

Every major G5 / G7 country goes into negotiations in a position of power and negotiate from there...that's reality. So while we may feel for the smaller countries , the countries in ASEAN and SCS disputes are not pushover and China has no intention of underestimating them at the table while they negotiate

It's not the usual operating USA matrix we understand that as you are more used to bombing and then talks later on deals ...here there is no opportunity for the fireworks show as Asians are not interested in wasting time and money

And how is occupying territory that another country claims not invading? Especially if the court with jurisdiction rules against you. It's invading.

Every major G5 / G7 country goes into negotiations in a position of power and negotiate from there...that's reality.

They may go into negotiations from a position of power but they don't do it by seizing territory that doesn't belong to them.

[LawrenceChee]

You can see Philippines which has been crying foul for 6 years under Aquino has a new boss for the next 6 years ...Duerte wants a railway in his home province in exchange for joint explorations rights which China is promising to negotiate on

So you can see if you remain clear minded , politics is fluid and the incoming president believes in bilateral talks with China and wants a deal done in what he feels is in Philippine favor not a court case ruling about some rocks ...6 years later the next president may not want this and China may have to negotiate again but this is life and not just missiles flying and testing your trading partners patience by bringing in all your warships and lining them up in a formation

What does that solve or compel China to do ? China is not scared of the USA military....

China has always wanted bilateral talks not an ASEAN one but USA butts in thinking its needed but it's not yet in the meantime the USA continues to conduct military exercises not China so who is escalating the military situation when there is none ?

No one is thin skinned ...China deserves critique and has them behind closed doors

This kind of nonsense condemns itself.

If you are Chinese or Asian you understand why ...are you staying in Thailand ?

What's the no 1 expat advice we give to newbies ? Never lose your cool in public, never make a scene with the government officials

If you don't understand the Asian way ...you don't have to. But China is not USA and not western , it doesn't take a CNN or a BBC hard talk style stuff well but if you critique behind closed doors, they are receptive and can understand points raised

I have seen western business leaders in forums leading change with local Govt officials but the session is closed door.

People like myself and other posters with experience at high level government talks , understand this ...for the rest who have never been one, I understand why some are critical of China and believe it is closed door but it's really not

I don't get invited to the White House / Senate but I don't make a big deal out of it ...my experience is pan Asia and not Americas

Edited June 9, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[55Jay]

China is the problem.