Thai girlfriend pregnant on a UK tourist/fiance visa, can she have her baby in UK?

[Basil B]

I stand corrected; thank you.

It does seem that as a fiance visa is valid for 6 months that the surcharge is not payable until the FLR application after the marriage.

But I'm still not sure if this means the person is not entitled to NHS treatment until then; after all, they are in the UK for a settled purpose.

I'm not sure that anyone is entitled to NHS treatment; the best one can do in the way of enforcing rights is to get the treatment elsewhere and bill the NHS.

What does 'settled purpose' have to do with it? The test for treatment being as free as for most people is 'ordinary residence' with the statutory exclusions for 'NHS charging purposes', and on the usual route of fiancée to settled wife, one only gets officially 'free' treatment once one gets ILR. However, paying the IHS effectively makes treatment 'free'. I'm not sure how any of the rare EEA nationals on this route qualify for 'free' treatment; it seems that they do, and they are excluded from the IHS.

Lest anyone be panicking, note that long-term visas obtained and being obtained before IHS came in effectively come with free IHS.

Everybody is entitled to emergency treatment by the NHS, including a woman giving birth, but not necessarily free and therefore may be billed for treatment.

Who is entitled to free NHS maternity care?

NHS maternity care is provided free of charge to women who are;

• considered to be ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK, or
• EEA nationals who are insured by another European state, or
• exempt from charges (including people who have paid the health surcharge).

If you do not fall into any of these groups you may be asked to pay for your care, but you cannot be refused care if you cannot pay at the time you receive care. It is very important for your health and your baby’s health that you attend for maternity care even if you are unable to pay.

Maternity care includes all antenatal, birth and post-natal care.

The NHS charging regulations outlined in this information sheet apply to NHS hospital care. If you are using community maternity services, you should check whether these services are provided (and funded) by a hospital. If they are, the charging regulations will still apply.

If you are uncertain about your immigration status, you should seek specialist immigration advice – see organisations listed at the end of this information sheet.

Ordinary residence

Who is ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK?

Individuals who are considered to be ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK are entitled to free NHS care.

UK and EEA nationals

To be ‘ordinarily resident’, UK and EEA nationals must be living lawfully in the UK and be ‘settled’ in the UK.

Having a UK passport does not mean that you are automatically treated as being ordinarily resident so UK nationals who have been living/working abroad may also have to prove their ordinary residence.

You are considered to be living lawfully in the UK if you have permission from the UK Government to live here. For example, you have a UK passport or indefinite leave to remain. EEA nationals living in the UK will need to demonstrate that they are exercising EU treaty rights in the UK (e.g. are employed, self-employed, a student or a family member of someone exercising their EU treaty rights) or have permanent residence in the UK.

You are considered to be ‘settled’ in the UK if you have been living here lawfully for six months or more and plan to stay longer. You may be considered to be ‘settled’ in the UK if you have lived here for less than six months but can show that you are intending to stay for longer than 6 months. For example, you have taken a job here, your children have started school here, or you have taken out a lease on your accommodation.

Non UK/EEA nationals

Under the 2015 charging regulations, to be considered ordinarily resident in the UK, non-EEA nationals must:

• be living lawfully in the UK, and
• be settled in the UK, and
• have indefinite leave to remain (ILR).

Therefore if you are in the UK on a short term visa (e.g. a spouse or student visa), you cannot be classed as ordinarily resident even if you have been in the UK for more than 6 months and can show that you are settled here.

You are not considered to be living lawfully in the UK if you have overstayed your visa.

You are not considered to be living lawfully in the UK if your claim for asylum and any subsequent appeals have been refused.

http://www.maternityaction.org.uk/advice-2/mums-dads-scenarios/3-women-from-abroad/entitlement-to-free-nhs-maternity-care-for-women-from-abroad/

Edited April 16, 2016 by Basil B

[Basil B]

The reason is, dual nationality is not the same anymore, if a child is born outside the kingdom, the child is alien.

Do you have a link for this change in Thai nationality law?

Fact is that if a Thai mother gives birth overseas, and the child is not entitled to any other nationality therefore would be stateless, a situation outlawed under international treaties.

Thailand has no way of proving the child has rights to or obtained British nationality unless the mother, or the British Government tells them so.

[MaprangHolmes]

Another take on it, yes you would have to pay for the birth which would about 2k more than in Thailand but as the child would be British then surely if the child had a problem that would be done under the NHS.

The one main advantage of giving birth in the UK is that your child would be able to pass on his British citizenship if at a later date he had a child in say Thailand. If the child is born in Thailand this is not possible under current legislation.

Even if the baby is born in Thailand, he/she can pass on their British citizenship to their children if they are born in the UK.

Yes they can but said child can not then pass his British Citizenship on to his/her child if they have a child in Thailand

[7by7]

As both Thailand and the UK allow dual nationality there is no need to hide the child's other nationality from either country.

[7by7]

Another take on it, yes you would have to pay for the birth which would about 2k more than in Thailand but as the child would be British then surely if the child had a problem that would be done under the NHS.

The one main advantage of giving birth in the UK is that your child would be able to pass on his British citizenship if at a later date he had a child in say Thailand. If the child is born in Thailand this is not possible under current legislation.

Even if the baby is born in Thailand, he/she can pass on their British citizenship to their children if they are born in the UK.

Yes they can but said child can not then pass his British Citizenship on to his/her child if they have a child in Thailand

True; a person who is British by descent cannot pass their British nationality onto their children unless those children are born in the UK or a qualifying territory.

However, their children may be eligible to apply for registration as British and if granted that would make those children British otherwise than by descent and their children would therefore automatically be British wherever they were born.

Complicated, aint it!?

[Richard W]

Richard, entitled may not, strictly speaking, be the correct word; but I'm sure most know what I mean.

Unfortunately, there are issues such as whether one will receive treatment that one should but can't pay for. As to 'free', well some people are entitled to free prescriptions.

Being in the UK for a settled purpose has a lot to do with it.

From the guidance on ordinary residence

1. General guidance

1.1 ‘Ordinary residence’ has not been defined in any Act of Parliament. The leading case in this area is R -v- Barnet LBC ex parte Shah [1983] 1 All ER 226. The concept was held by the House of Lords to imply the following:

a. Ordinary residence is established if there is a regular habitual mode of life in a particular place "for the time being", "whether of short of short or long duration", the continuity of which has persisted apart from temporary or occasional absences. The only provisos are that the residence must be voluntary and adopted for "a settled purpose".

1.2 Although Shah was concerned with the meaning of ‘ordinary residence’ as used in the Education Acts, the decision is generally recognised as having wider application and should normally be followed when determining status or other matters under the immigration and nationality legislation.

5. When does a person become ordinarily resident?

5.1 A person may become ordinarily resident immediately on arrival, and probably will if entering the territory for settlement or one of the purposes leading to settlement.

Obvioulsy, a fiance visa is a purpose leading to settlement!

Therefore, based upon the above, a person in the UK with a fiance visa is classed as ordinarily resident and so entitled, or whatever word you prefer, to full use of the NHS.

Even though they wont pay the IHS surcharge until they apply for FLR after the marriage.

But if you can find anything from UKVI, the Dept. of Health or any other government source which says differently, then obviously I will be pleased to see it.

I linked you to the law of the land. Which bit of Section 39 of the Immigration Act 2014 did you not understand? It came into force on 6 April 2015 by the Immigration Act 2014 (Commencement No. 5) Order 2015. The meaning of 'ordinarily resident' was adjusted for use in connection with paying for the NHS.

However, if you prefer unreliable sources, I offer you the UKVI page Pay for UK healthcare as part of your immigration application:

You’ll be able to use the National Health Service (NHS) if you’re exempt from paying - except if you’re on a visitor visa or any visa that will only last for 6 months or less (that you applied for from outside the UK). You’ll have to pay for care you get through the NHS at the point you use it.

A fiancé(e) visa only lasts for 6 months.

[7by7]

Have you read your link Section 39 of the Immigration Act 2014?

It clearly states that the charges provisions apply to people who are not ordinarily resident!

The House of Lords long ago determined that a person who enters the UK for a settled purpose immediately becomes ordinarily resident.

Someone who enters the UK with a fiance, or proposed civil partner come to that, visa is entering for a settled purpose.

Yes, a fiance visa is only valid for 6 months.

But visas which are valid for 6 months or less cannot be converted to settlement in the UK; except for fiance visas.

I have seen nothing which shows fiance visa holders are not classed as ordinarily resident and so cannot access the NHS.

[Richard W]

True; a person who is British by descent cannot pass their British nationality onto their children unless those children are born in the UK or a qualifying territory.

However, their children may be eligible to apply for registration as British and if granted that would make those children British otherwise than by descent and their children would therefore automatically be British wherever they were born.

If the said children were to live with their parents in the UK for 3 years without being registered first, they could be registered as British other than by descent. However, if they were registered as British at birth, on the basis of their parent's prior residence in the UK, they would be British by descent.

As another complication, fathers can transmit Britishness to their children born of unmarried mothers. On the other hand, the children of married mothers cannot derive Britishness from their fathers as such; they instead derive Britishness from their mother's husband.

Complicated, aint it!?

Verily.

[MiKT]

I'm not trying to be alarmist, but your friend , and his girlfriend, should think about what happens if either the airline, or the immigration officer in UK, see, or suspect, that she is pregnant. Although it may well be true that she did not know this when the visa application was submitted, it is a change of circumstances since the visa was issued, and this could "invalidate" the visa. She could either be refused permission to fly, or refused entry to the UK.

She will be 4 or 5 months pregnant when she flies ? She might "show", but then again she might not.

This is totally incorrect, the airlines only care if you are pregnant and prevent flying at the very latest stages of pregnancy simply to ensure you don't have a baby mid-flight. Nothing to do with immigration.

UK immigration don't care if you have a baby coming through the door, if you are not registered for the NHS you will have to pay all your own medical costs.

A Finance visa does not entitle you to any NHS services and even if you get married you must leave the country after 6 months. Then you can apply for a settlement visa. If you get a settlement visa and go to live in the UK you are entitled to NHS services, but unless you get full UK citizenship within 2 years you will have to leave the country and all NHS services will be withdrawn.

Just being married to a UK citizen does not entitle you to any NHS services.

I hate to disagree with you, but I do disagree with you. I used to work with the airlines, assessing whether passengers were properly documented or not. On many occasions, we denied boarding to ladies who were pregnant, and who were attempting to travel to the UK to give birth. If they had not informed the ECO that they were pregnant at the time of application, or if the they became aware of the pregnancy after the visa was issued, then there was a possibility that the visa could be invalidated.

UK immigration do care if an arriving passenger is pregnant, especially if that passenger is a visa national who hasn't informed the ECO of that fact. I know that, as I use to work for UK immigration.

You do not have to leave the UK after 6 months if you have been issued with a fiancee visa, and get married in the UK. There is so much wrong with your post, that it constitutes poor advice,

Let me see, working from last to first. Yes, now if you get married within 6 months of applying for your fiancé visa you can apply for a settlement visa, but if you do not get married then you must leave within 6 months.

Until you get your settlement visa you cannot work, must be able to support and accommodate yourself without working or will be supported by your fiancé with settled status without him/her receiving help from public funds. Thus, no NHS Services until you get a settlement visa.

Second, there is no place on any UK visa application form to state your health condition, let alone pregnancy, so when you arrive at immigration how are they going to check who did and did not inform the ECO that they are pregnant and what would the ECO do with that information anyway?

The ECO is the “Export Control Organisation” and they issues licenses for controlling the export of strategic goods!

It only matters if you cannot pay to have the baby in the UK and try to have it free on the NHS, which will not happen, as the hospitals do check to make sure you have a NHS number and you can’t get a NHS number until you have a settlement visa.

Lastly, I don’t know what kind of airline you worked for or in what country, but I still say that is nonsense, As I stated above, there is no requirement to declare if you are pregnant on a UK visa application, so on what grounds would the airline deny travel?

Did you check to see if a pregnant passenger had a NHS number? Did you check to see if they had an appointment with a private clinic, did you check that they would not get married and apply for a settlement visa within 6 months and if so how? It’s all totally improbable.

There must be hundreds or thousands of pregnant women travelling to the UK every day. If you have a valid visa, the airlines (or rail/sea transport services) cannot deny you travel on arbitrary grounds, like “they think you might be planning to have your baby on the NHS without paying for it”.

Possibly if you turned up 8 months pregnant with one of the old 3 week tourist visa's and no money or proof of support it may have been possible to prevent them boarding, but modern visa requirements are much stricter on proof of funds for support.

[cat handler]

Tell her to have it in Tahiland, the last thing anybody needs is to fly from England to Thailand with a screaming new born behind them.

[MiKT]

Have you read your link Section 39 of the Immigration Act 2014?

It clearly states that the charges provisions apply to people who are not ordinarily resident!

The House of Lords long ago determined that a person who enters the UK for a settled purpose immediately becomes ordinarily resident.

Someone who enters the UK with a fiance, or proposed civil partner come to that, visa is entering for a settled purpose.

Yes, a fiance visa is only valid for 6 months.

But visas which are valid for 6 months or less cannot be converted to settlement in the UK; except for fiance visas.

I have seen nothing which shows fiance visa holders are not classed as ordinarily resident and so cannot access the NHS.

Its clear you cannot get a NHS number until you have a settlement visa. Entering on a fiancé visa is not proof of settlement purposes.

[Richard W]

Have you read your link Section 39 of the Immigration Act 2014?

It clearly states that the charges provisions apply to people who are not ordinarily resident!

Yes. Did you read Section 39(1)? Were you sure you read it properly? It says, amongst other things, that "persons who have leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom for a limited period" are included amongst "persons not ordinarily resident in Great Britain" when interpreting the NHS charging regulations. Thus, although common sense may tell you that someone in the UK on a fiancé visa avowedly intended to be ordinarily resident in the UK, they are not ordinarily resident for the purposes of the NHS charging regulations.

[Richard W]

I have seen nothing which shows fiance visa holders are not classed as ordinarily resident and so cannot access the NHS.

Its clear you cannot get a NHS number until you have a settlement visa. Entering on a fiancé visa is not proof of settlement purposes.

There are some non-sequiturs here. For starters, one can access the NHS for STD treatment - it's in the public interest for STDs to be treated.

Secondly, visitors are treated by the NHS. It's just that they should pay. Furthermore, my understanding was that primary care was covered by the NHS for everyone.

Thirdly, students are not normally present on a settlement visa. However, those on long courses have to pay the IHS, albeit with a 25% discount. I rather think these students, at least, will acquire an NHS number.

[beano2274]

I'm not trying to be alarmist, but your friend , and his girlfriend, should think about what happens if either the airline, or the immigration officer in UK, see, or suspect, that she is pregnant. Although it may well be true that she did not know this when the visa application was submitted, it is a change of circumstances since the visa was issued, and this could "invalidate" the visa. She could either be refused permission to fly, or refused entry to the UK.

She will be 4 or 5 months pregnant when she flies ? She might "show", but then again she might not.

This is totally incorrect, the airlines only care if you are pregnant and prevent flying at the very latest stages of pregnancy simply to ensure you don't have a baby mid-flight. Nothing to do with immigration.

UK immigration don't care if you have a baby coming through the door, if you are not registered for the NHS you will have to pay all your own medical costs.

A Finance visa does not entitle you to any NHS services and even if you get married you must leave the country after 6 months. Then you can apply for a settlement visa. If you get a settlement visa and go to live in the UK you are entitled to NHS services, but unless you get full UK citizenship within 2 years you will have to leave the country and all NHS services will be withdrawn.

Just being married to a UK citizen does not entitle you to any NHS services.

I hate to disagree with you, but I do disagree with you. I used to work with the airlines, assessing whether passengers were properly documented or not. On many occasions, we denied boarding to ladies who were pregnant, and who were attempting to travel to the UK to give birth. If they had not informed the ECO that they were pregnant at the time of application, or if the they became aware of the pregnancy after the visa was issued, then there was a possibility that the visa could be invalidated.

UK immigration do care if an arriving passenger is pregnant, especially if that passenger is a visa national who hasn't informed the ECO of that fact. I know that, as I use to work for UK immigration.

You do not have to leave the UK after 6 months if you have been issued with a fiancee visa, and get married in the UK. There is so much wrong with your post, that it constitutes poor advice,

Let me see, working from last to first. Yes, now if you get married within 6 months of applying for your fiancé visa you can apply for a settlement visa, but if you do not get married then you must leave within 6 months.

Until you get your settlement visa you cannot work, must be able to support and accommodate yourself without working or will be supported by your fiancé with settled status without him/her receiving help from public funds. Thus, no NHS Services until you get a settlement visa.

Second, there is no place on any UK visa application form to state your health condition, let alone pregnancy, so when you arrive at immigration how are they going to check who did and did not inform the ECO that they are pregnant and what would the ECO do with that information anyway?

The ECO is the “Export Control Organisation” and they issues licenses for controlling the export of strategic goods!

It only matters if you cannot pay to have the baby in the UK and try to have it free on the NHS, which will not happen, as the hospitals do check to make sure you have a NHS number and you can’t get a NHS number until you have a settlement visa.

Lastly, I don’t know what kind of airline you worked for or in what country, but I still say that is nonsense, As I stated above, there is no requirement to declare if you are pregnant on a UK visa application, so on what grounds would the airline deny travel?

Did you check to see if a pregnant passenger had a NHS number? Did you check to see if they had an appointment with a private clinic, did you check that they would not get married and apply for a settlement visa within 6 months and if so how? It’s all totally improbable.

There must be hundreds or thousands of pregnant women travelling to the UK every day. If you have a valid visa, the airlines (or rail/sea transport services) cannot deny you travel on arbitrary grounds, like “they think you might be planning to have your baby on the NHS without paying for it”.

Possibly if you turned up 8 months pregnant with one of the old 3 week tourist visa's and no money or proof of support it may have been possible to prevent them boarding, but modern visa requirements are much stricter on proof of funds for support.

ECO - entry clearance officer

[Richard W]

The ECO is the “Export Control Organisation” and they issues licenses for controlling the export of strategic goods!

Neither your meaning nor the one most of us here understand shows up in Wikipedia. On this forum, ECO means Entry Clearance Officer. Comments like the one I'm replying to may dissuade readers from paying any attentions to your posts.

[brewsterbudgen]

Another take on it, yes you would have to pay for the birth which would about 2k more than in Thailand but as the child would be British then surely if the child had a problem that would be done under the NHS.

The one main advantage of giving birth in the UK is that your child would be able to pass on his British citizenship if at a later date he had a child in say Thailand. If the child is born in Thailand this is not possible under current legislation.

Even if the baby is born in Thailand, he/she can pass on their British citizenship to their children if they are born in the UK.

Yes they can but said child can not then pass his British Citizenship on to his/her child if they have a child in Thailand

Correct. As I said, the child would need to be born in the UK.

[sandyf]

About 10 years ago a friend of mine took his girlfriend back to the UK on fiance visa. They got married and had the baby shortly afterwards. There was no problem having the baby on the NHS but he was presented with a bill following the birth, around £1500 if I remember right. He argued the toss but lost, I think it was on the basis she was pregnant before she went to the UK.

Nobody can force you to pay.

They can give a bill, you just don't pay it.

And at the last poster, you don't have to tell the truth.

They aren't going to check her VISA, 'sorry don't have it with me'.

As I said, he argued the toss and tried to ignore the bill. In the end he was told by the NHS if he didn't settle the account NHS treatment for his wife would be withdrawn.

It would be up to any individual to respond to the threat in any manner they choose. In this particular case she has been there ever since and has had a second child in the meantime but no doubt you think he was wrong to actually pay up.

[Tony M]

Let me see, working from last to first. Yes, now if you get married within 6 months of applying for your fiancé visa you can apply for a settlement visa, but if you do not get married then you must leave within 6 months.

Until you get your settlement visa you cannot work, must be able to support and accommodate yourself without working or will be supported by your fiancé with settled status without him/her receiving help from public funds. Thus, no NHS Services until you get a settlement visa.

Second, there is no place on any UK visa application form to state your health condition, let alone pregnancy, so when you arrive at immigration how are they going to check who did and did not inform the ECO that they are pregnant and what would the ECO do with that information anyway?

The ECO is the “Export Control Organisation” and they issues licenses for controlling the export of strategic goods!

It only matters if you cannot pay to have the baby in the UK and try to have it free on the NHS, which will not happen, as the hospitals do check to make sure you have a NHS number and you can’t get a NHS number until you have a settlement visa.

Lastly, I don’t know what kind of airline you worked for or in what country, but I still say that is nonsense, As I stated above, there is no requirement to declare if you are pregnant on a UK visa application, so on what grounds would the airline deny travel?

Did you check to see if a pregnant passenger had a NHS number? Did you check to see if they had an appointment with a private clinic, did you check that they would not get married and apply for a settlement visa within 6 months and if so how? It’s all totally improbable.

There must be hundreds or thousands of pregnant women travelling to the UK every day. If you have a valid visa, the airlines (or rail/sea transport services) cannot deny you travel on arbitrary grounds, like “they think you might be planning to have your baby on the NHS without paying for it”.

Possibly if you turned up 8 months pregnant with one of the old 3 week tourist visa's and no money or proof of support it may have been possible to prevent them boarding, but modern visa requirements are much stricter on proof of funds for support.

There is so much wrong with your statements, it's hard to know where to start. It's clear that you don't take criticism lightly, and it would probably be best to end it here. But, a couple of points that you made :

You were clearly wrong about having to leave the UK after getting married on a fiancee visa. Why don't you just admit it ?

There is no requirement to tell an ECO that you are pregnant, but there is a requirement to disclose material facts when you apply for the visa, or if there has been a change of circumstances since the visa was issued :

V 9.1 A current visit visa or leave to enter or remain as a visitor may be cancelled whilst the person is outside the UK or on arrival in the UK, if any of paragraphs V 9.2 – V 9.7 apply.

Change of circumstances

V 9.2 Where there has been such a change in the circumstances of the case since the visit visa or leave to enter or remain was granted that the basis of the visitor’s claim to admission or stay has been removed and the visa or leave should be cancelled.

Change of purpose

V 9.3 Where the visitor holds a visit visa and their purpose in arriving in the United Kingdom is different from the purpose specified in the visit visa.

False information or failure to disclose a material fact

V 9.4 Where:

(a) false representations were made or false documents or information submitted (whether or not material to the application, and whether or not to the applicant's knowledge); or

(b ) material facts were not disclosed, in relation to the application for a visit visa or leave to enter or remain as a visitor, or in order to obtain documents from the Secretary of State or a third party provided in support of their application.

The ECO, or the immigration officer on arrival in the UK, can decide if material facts have been concealed, and he might decide that concealing a pregnancy, and possibly intending to have the baby in the UK on the NHS, is a material fact. An airline, if they have doubts about a passenger can contact UK immigration, and ask them if the passenger can be accepted for travel ( see more on this below).

I didn't say that I worked for an airline. I worked for the UK Immigration Service, and I worked with airlines overseas. My job was to assist airlines in determining whether passengers were properly documented to travel, and part of that work was to stop NHS abuse by denying boarding to passengers who might be coming to the UK to obtain free NHS treatment. And, yes, we did check to see if they were pregnant ( by sending them to a doctor, on occasion), or if they had an NHS number, or if they were going to have private treatment, etc. You may have had your passport checked when you were boarding a flight to UK, and the person doing the checking may have been an immigration official from the UK.

And lastly, your final point is ridiculous. "Possibly, if they turned up 8 months pregnant.........it might have been possible to prevent them boarding". It happens all the time.

[theoldgit]

As I said, he argued the toss and tried to ignore the bill. In the end he was told by the NHS if he didn't settle the account NHS treatment for his wife would be withdrawn.

But that was ten years ago Sandy, things have moved on since then.

If a Thai person, or any other visa national with a few exceptions, incurred a NHS bill and wouldn't/couldn't pay then the bill wouldn't be withdrawn but neither would the person be stopped from leaving the UK, but if they applied for another visa to visit at some time in the future, the application would probably be refused until the bill had been settled, or a payment plan agreed.

[7by7]

Until you get your settlement visa you cannot work, must be able to support and accommodate yourself without working or will be supported by your fiancé with settled status without him/her receiving help from public funds. Thus, no NHS Services until you get a settlement visa.

A fiance visa is a type of settlement visa. Visas cannot be applied for inside the UK. It is Further Leave to Remain which the, now spouse, applies for in the UK after the marriage.

Whether they have a fiance visa, proposed civil partner visa, spouse visa, partner visa or FLR the person cannot claim any public funds, neither can their sponsir claim any on their behalf. It is only once they have Indefinite Leave to Remain that the proscription on public funds is lifted.

However, NHS treatment is not, and never has been, on the list of proscribed public funds.

Though since April last year anyone applying to enter or remain in the UK for more than 6 months has to pay the IHS surcharge. Except when applying for ILR.

The ECO is the “Export Control Organisation” and they issues licenses for controlling the export of strategic goods!

Anyone with even the slightest knowledge of the subject knows that in the context of UK immigration ECO stands for Entry Clearance Officer!

It only matters if you cannot pay to have the baby in the UK and try to have it free on the NHS, which will not happen, as the hospitals do check to make sure you have a NHS number and you can’t get a NHS number until you have a settlement visa.

Lots of non British citizens who are in the UK without a settlement visa, or leave to remain under the settlement rules, have a NHS number; students, people on work visas, EEA nationals.

Having one does not prove the person is still entitled to free at the point of use NHS treatment. Just as having a NI number doesn't prove the person is still entitled to work in the UK. Both numbers once issued are held by the person for life.

Free at the point of use of the NHS and the right to work in the UK are both dependent on the person's immigration and/or residency status, not on whether they have a NHS number and/or NI number which they obtained on a previous stay in the UK when their status did allow them to do one or both.

Even British ex pats, who have held a NHS number since they were born, are not entitled to free NHS care unless they are returning to the UK to take up residence.

[sandyf]

As I said, he argued the toss and tried to ignore the bill. In the end he was told by the NHS if he didn't settle the account NHS treatment for his wife would be withdrawn.

But that was ten years ago Sandy, things have moved on since then.

I fail to see what you mean by that, are you supporting the poster that said you do not have to pay the bill, or do you mean nobody has to pay?

My friend made the decision to pay as there was no plan for his wife to return to Thailand. The bill had been issued by the hospital for their services, there was never any problem with the GP or local services. I don't think he ever said who made the threat, the hospital or from NHS HQ.

[theoldgit]

As I said, he argued the toss and tried to ignore the bill. In the end he was told by the NHS if he didn't settle the account NHS treatment for his wife would be withdrawn.

But that was ten years ago Sandy, things have moved on since then.

I fail to see what you mean by that, are you supporting the poster that said you do not have to pay the bill, or do you mean nobody has to pay?

My friend made the decision to pay as there was no plan for his wife to return to Thailand. The bill had been issued by the hospital for their services, there was never any problem with the GP or local services. I don't think he ever said who made the threat, the hospital or from NHS HQ.

Neither, but neither did I say that, though I will admit to misreading your reply on my phone I thought you'd written the bill would be withdrawn.

That said, I'm surprised a doctor would withdraw treatment, very surprised. The decision wouldn't have been made by "NHS HQ", rules are applied, as interpreted by individual NHS Trusts. In part of a previous life when part of my job description was to ensure medical treatment was available to asylum seekers I had to liaise with NHS Trusts up and down the country, not centrally.

I'm not saying that under the current climate a bill doesn't have to be paid, I said, in the bit you left out of my quote, that if the bill wasn't paid they wouldn't be prevented from leaving the UK, it's a civil not criminal issue even if the Trust took them to court, but, also as I said, anyone in default of a NHS bill wouldn't be issued with a further visa until the outstanding debt was settled, or a payment plan agreed.

[7by7]

I'm sorry, Sandy, but your friends tale doesn't quite add up!

You say that your friend's wife had no plan to return to Thailand; I hope this means she was in the UK with a settlement visa or leave to remain of some kind; not that she was an illegal overstayer!

In which case she would have been in the UK for a settled purpose so classed as ordinarily resident and entitled to free at the point of use NHS hospital treatment.

So either she or her husband failed to show her immigration status to the hospital or the hospital made an error; either way she should not have been charged. Her husband should have challenged the bill and demanded to know why she was being charged for treatment.

Although, from my own and other's experiences, back then very few hospitals bothered to check.

Even had she been in the UK as a visitor, or even if she had been in the UK illegally, it is highly unlikely that any NHS hospital would refuse or threaten to withdraw treatment.

Instead, she would have been charged for the treatment she received; after receiving the treatment..

Ten years ago, if she didn't pay and left the UK there was little the NHS could do; but the rules have changed since then and now, as repeatedly stated in this topic, any unpaid NHS bill could result in future visa applications being refused.

Edited April 17, 2016 by 7by7

[tw25rw]

Friend of mine took his Thai girl over on a 6 month tourist visa and got her knocked up.. When he tried to register her with the NHS, they wouldn't have it until he mentioned she was pregnant. Then they pulled out the stops and she got everything for free, even though she overstayed. He married her while she was still pregnant. The kid is about 15 months old now. She recently got her visa to stay in the UK so can go home for the first time in over 2 years.

[beano2274]

Friend of mine took his Thai girl over on a 6 month tourist visa and got her knocked up.. When he tried to register her with the NHS, they wouldn't have it until he mentioned she was pregnant. Then they pulled out the stops and she got everything for free, even though she overstayed. He married her while she was still pregnant. The kid is about 15 months old now. She recently got her visa to stay in the UK so can go home for the first time in over 2 years.

Funnily enough I know of someone where the same thing happened, but things went the other way, she was actually told to leave the UK with her son, and has also received a lengthy ban.

[tw25rw]

Friend of mine took his Thai girl over on a 6 month tourist visa and got her knocked up.. When he tried to register her with the NHS, they wouldn't have it until he mentioned she was pregnant. Then they pulled out the stops and she got everything for free, even though she overstayed. He married her while she was still pregnant. The kid is about 15 months old now. She recently got her visa to stay in the UK so can go home for the first time in over 2 years.

Funnily enough I know of someone where the same thing happened, but things went the other way, she was actually told to leave the UK with her son, and has also received a lengthy ban.

What was the father's status?

[Paul Phuket]

Is the babies father British? If the baby is born in the UK it will have British citizenship. However if the baby is born in Thailand and the father is British it will have dual citizenship. A lot more convenient if your friend spends most of his time in Thailand with the Thai mother.

You get dual citizen ship by applying for it if baby is born in uk you register birth at Thai embassy and get passport..

That's what I did 9 years ago. So speaking from first hand experience. And register birth as normal in UK. Also agree make sure you have fiancée visa and get married then no problem.

[sandyf]

As I said, he argued the toss and tried to ignore the bill. In the end he was told by the NHS if he didn't settle the account NHS treatment for his wife would be withdrawn.

But that was ten years ago Sandy, things have moved on since then.

I fail to see what you mean by that, are you supporting the poster that said you do not have to pay the bill, or do you mean nobody has to pay?

My friend made the decision to pay as there was no plan for his wife to return to Thailand. The bill had been issued by the hospital for their services, there was never any problem with the GP or local services. I don't think he ever said who made the threat, the hospital or from NHS HQ.

Neither, but neither did I say that, though I will admit to misreading your reply on my phone I thought you'd written the bill would be withdrawn.

That said, I'm surprised a doctor would withdraw treatment, very surprised. The decision wouldn't have been made by "NHS HQ", rules are applied, as interpreted by individual NHS Trusts. In part of a previous life when part of my job description was to ensure medical treatment was available to asylum seekers I had to liaise with NHS Trusts up and down the country, not centrally.

I'm not saying that under the current climate a bill doesn't have to be paid, I said, in the bit you left out of my quote, that if the bill wasn't paid they wouldn't be prevented from leaving the UK, it's a civil not criminal issue even if the Trust took them to court, but, also as I said, anyone in default of a NHS bill wouldn't be issued with a further visa until the outstanding debt was settled, or a payment plan agreed.

The OP asked a question and I gave an answer, now every tom dick and harry wants to take things out of context and make an issue.

Simple facts are that she was about 5 months pregnant and came to the UK, got married, had the baby and had to pay for the hospital,. I never said anything about a doctor. The gist of it was that my friend received a letter for the NHS to the effect that no further hospital treatment would be available until the bill was settled. As the intention was that she apply to remain in the UK it was prudent that there was a clean bill of health so to speak, so he paid the bill, end of story.

Edited April 18, 2016 by sandyf

[7by7]

Friend of mine took his Thai girl over on a 6 month tourist visa and got her knocked up.. When he tried to register her with the NHS, they wouldn't have it until he mentioned she was pregnant. Then they pulled out the stops and she got everything for free, even though she overstayed. He married her while she was still pregnant. The kid is about 15 months old now. She recently got her visa to stay in the UK so can go home for the first time in over 2 years.

As has been said many times in this topic, the NHS is not going to refuse treatment to anyone who needs it; no matter what their immigration status in the UK is.

What surprises me, though, is that she was not charged for the treatment, and that she was able to convert her tourist visa into settlement from inside the UK.

Could you tell us how she managed to do those two things; I'm sure it will be of great interest to others as Beano's friend's experience is the norm in such situations.

BTW the immigration status or nationality of the father is mostly irrelevant in this matter; except that if he is British then the child would also be British and so would not need any form of visa or leave to remain to stay in the UK..

[bobrussell]

Friend of mine took his Thai girl over on a 6 month tourist visa and got her knocked up.. When he tried to register her with the NHS, they wouldn't have it until he mentioned she was pregnant. Then they pulled out the stops and she got everything for free, even though she overstayed. He married her while she was still pregnant. The kid is about 15 months old now. She recently got her visa to stay in the UK so can go home for the first time in over 2 years.

Somehow this individual has converted a visit visa, after overstaying, into a settlement visa. This is contrary to pretty much every immigration rule.

Either there must have been significant mitigating factors or the story is not quite as it sounds!

The NHS will never refuse treatment for anyone in need. It may well send a bill and failure to pay that will seriously compromise future visa applications.

Anyone married to a British citizen, children or not is expected to return to their home country to apply for settlement. Overstaying on a visit visa may well be ignored but dishonesty and fraudulent documents will still result in potential bans!

7by7 beat me to it!

Edited April 18, 2016 by bobrussell