Reverse culture shock tips if you haven't lived in the U.S. for a really long time

[Jingthing]

Tipping has become a PITA.

Uber was originally a no tip service but now the drivers and passangers rate each other. No tip = poor rating. There is an unofficial rule of "five for a five". Five stars is a good rating.

Wow. That sucks. I've never used Uber but I understand if you get a low customer rating you won't get rides, or even kicked off the app. Brave new world!

[ataloss]

JT you have just been here to long. You will never survive back in the states.

I know I couldn't. I cannot even conceive a long visit back there now.

I think you may have been here longer than me.

I have made the calculation if I stay another 5 years or more, then there may be no realistic path to go back.

I see a path now and I feel it makes sense. There is a lot of personal detail going into my thinking, which is too personal to go into here.

Of course you may be right. Nobody can predict the future.

If things went totally bust in the U.S. and I could still manage the finances, flights leave the U.S. daily ...

Re 'a lot of personal detail going into my thinking, which is too personal to go into here.'

Ahh gee...com'on, we're not easily offended

[Jingthing]

JT you have just been here to long. You will never survive back in the states.

I know I couldn't. I cannot even conceive a long visit back there now.

I think you may have been here longer than me.

I have made the calculation if I stay another 5 years or more, then there may be no realistic path to go back.

I see a path now and I feel it makes sense. There is a lot of personal detail going into my thinking, which is too personal to go into here.

Of course you may be right. Nobody can predict the future.

If things went totally bust in the U.S. and I could still manage the finances, flights leave the U.S. daily ...

Re 'a lot of personal detail going into my thinking, which is too personal to go into here.'

Ahh gee...com'on, we're not easily offended

No, thanks.

I've made my decision and this thread is not about all the factors that went into it. Although some will slip in, inevitably.

Don't bother baiting me in future.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Gay marriage is legal in all 50 States and in many states and cities, transgender people can use the bathroom they are most comfortable using. ?

[OMGImInPattaya]

Im in the states now for the last 4 months after 6 years in thailand...

Cashless society...

Delivery for everything by freelancers...lyft uber...restaurant food delivered by people...

Clothes shopping is cheap and everything fits...

The food...oh man so good!

7 11s...hahaha totally different...

Options options and more freaking options! Its overwhelming to go to the grocery store....

Gluten free whaaaa....

Everything just feels easier...such as opening bank accounts...

Laws organization...rules....police are real and unified sharks...

Expensive to violate anything....

Infrastructure...clean manicured...slightly sterile and disneyfied....

Convenience....soooo convenient....gyms! Wow! 30 bux a month check out la fitness! Modern...spacious raquetball basketball courts...pools...crossfit mixed with machines and free weights galore!! 20 different machines just for core/ abs!

Visa..what visa? Wheres my passport..who cares!!!! Jobs everywhere!!! So much work in every industry no work permit necessary!!!

Pot is legal and sold in dispensaries!!!

Minimum wage going up to 15 an hour!!!!

1st time home owner loans with 0 down!!!

Friendly people...i think just reflecting your smile...genuine nice courtous customer service...people interact with you with sincerity and curiousity and helpful mindfulness

Healthy yoga people!!

In austin there are hipsters rolling on motsai scooters...no helmet laws!!!

Mai pen rai sabai sabai!!!

It feels safe...and controlled...

And super fantastic internet...

I'm happy for you that you feel save and CONTROLLED!

He might like Thailand better, where we're so controlled one can actually be called in and have one's attitude "adjusted."

[OMGImInPattaya]

Fireplay -- where are you?

Jingthing's right. I see people here in Chiang Mai who simply wait too long to get themselves organized for a return to their home countries. By the time that they're frail, unable to care for themselves properly and often can't afford to have someone look after them, it's simply too daunting a task to return. These are the people who end up getting hit by a motorcycle driving up on the sidewalk as they make their daily trip outside the condo, venturing out for a few odds and ends at the mall and a little social interaction with the other old guys at the Tops food court.

I'm following this thread myself, because after eight years here, I'm realizing that Hubby and I don't have an obvious place to go, either, if we had to return to the U.S. He's paid into Medicare Part B and I'm a little too young for Medicare and fortunately we have some savings, so we could afford to look around for a time and would arrange for travel insurance before we left. But we don't have a home and our only relative, my brother, will probably tolerate us living in his basement for just a month or so. We haven't a clue where we'd live, never having children and not being close to my brother, our only sibling.

But, we need to get this organized sooner rather than later before we join the crew of frail retirees whose daily highlight is sitting around the Tops food court congratulating themselves on crossing Huay Kaew Road safely.

I would venture to say getting old and frail sucks in either country, especially if one is without allot of friends or relatives and the funds to live comfortably. Being old and alone in the US is no walk in the park...and in fact it might be better in Thailand even if it means dodging the motorbikes. Medicare kicks in at 65 but it doesn't pay for long term nursing home care, and quality private care can easily run $5000+ per month.

[OMGImInPattaya]

We're thinking the time for us to go back is when I turn 65 in three years. I'll be able to get Medicare and start up a corporate pension. It would be good not to have to touch SS and let that build up. Right now we're doing fine in Thailand on Hubby's corporate pension and SS, but it would be a real stretch in the U.S. and neither one of us fancy working as greeters at Walmart. That's where old farts go to work, isn't it?

Don't knock it...may get $15 an hour soon ?

[OMGImInPattaya]

The "rules" enforcement thing isn't really a change. Obviously details of that might be. It's one of those cultural difference bigger picture pro and con things. It can bite both ways depending on the specific situation. That would be a culture shock to readjust but I think it would mostly be about going back to what I already know.

One cultural thing I look forward to is that in the U.S. you can assertively COMPLAIN, even raise your voice if warranted, and not necessary "lose face" or lose the conflict just for doing that. Actually you can usually "win" conflicts in the U.S. doing that if your POV has credibility. The Thai way of non confrontation, just silently sucking it up. doesn't suit my temperament. Also look forward to being able to honestly trash businesses that deserve it online without fear of being arrested.

Well don't know what businesses in Thailand deserve a trashing other than those that practice dual pricing, some of which, ironically, are American owned! Such as "Ripley's believe it or not" in Pattaya yes "believe it or not" but in Thailand, Ripley's will rip you off for being a foreigner! So much for American companies screwing the very laws and/or ideologies like not discriminating against foreigners or minorities just because they're not in America anymore. I can understand it when Thai companies do it, as they have no such laws on their books in Thailand, but an American company? Ditto for Madame Tassauds. Just because you have white skin you have to pay more to visit their wax museum. Racist. Imagine if they charged blacks, Thais and Indians more for visiting their London museum?

Even so, in such cases it might be better to complain to the American/British head office than it's Thai counterpart.

Otherwise, if we're talking taxis in Thailand - yes it's possible to complain about them, but you have to be objective and can't just go on an angry tirade. There is far less reason to complain about American taxis as very, very few would dare to overcharge newly arrived foreigners, or anyone non-white, besides, the taxi driver himself is likely to be non-white. And even if they did, the repercussions are far more severe than in Thailand.

Other types of businesses like restaurants? Only reason to complain would be if you ate something that wasn't fresh and it made you sick. Or something like that. If the service was bad, well realize that restaurant employees are individuals too and don't necessarily represent a company's culture. Get over it. Many Americans (and other "farangs") have a certain notion of what good service means, which includes endless chit chat with the server and them constantly coming back to ask you how your food is, etc. and if the diners don't get that (well obviously they won't in Thailand) suddenly the service is bad, even though the culture here is different and servers just don't do that here.

Personally I prefer the Thai/Asian approach to ordering in restaurants. You get a menu, the waiter/waitress waits next to you and then you point or say what you want (usually you say it and point at the same time to make sure your order is taken down properly). The food comes, you finish it and eventually you ask for the bill/check. None of this constant pestering like in the US: "oh, how's the food?" Well if it wasn't good I would have told you already! Now let me eat in peace!

Ripley's in Thailand is franchised by the Minor Group, which is a Thai company majority owned and run by a Thai national.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Oh and tv!!! Wowowow series are sooo good! Everything is dvr and on demand the cable sat channels are insane!!! You will love american TV!! I AM CURRENTLy banging through ray donovan...soooo good...and true detective 1st season was amazing!!!! Tv shows today in the west have gotten so edgy and smart and dark and complicated and weird and funny...even american commercials are all slick and catchy and well produced....

you are aware that all of those shows can be streamed form thailand for free right?

Yea well setting up streaming with thailands shit internet and coding some sleek kodi interface is not the same as kicking back to the American tv experience.

ALL i meant was the comparison to MY tv experience in Thailand....which is crap....3 year old shit series on universal channel...some more extremely lame and limited american programming and bad movies sprinkled through absolutely awful thai programmimg and 10 channels of soccer and cricket.

Wheres the dvr tech! Wheres the nba play offs!!!!

Sorry but the lame work arounds to access the program is NOTHING compared to the american tv experience....

Internet streaming is Thailand works fine (you ever actually been here or just a keyboard dreamer?). I get unlimited streaming and downloads at 15 Mbps for $25 bucks a month. I can stream in HD to my 65" HDTV with no problem...and as for content...how about MLB.com for every game of the regular season for about $100 ☺

[1BADDAT]

Tipping has become a PITA.

Uber was originally a no tip service but now the drivers and passangers rate each other. No tip = poor rating. There is an unofficial rule of "five for a five". Five stars is a good rating.

i have not heard this and I hear it talked about a lot on a few podcasts I listen to. Maybe this is a regional thing.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Looks like many people are living a hand to mouth existence. Sad, but at least they were able to live their fantasy for a period of time before reality came calling.

The real culture shock for some will be the inability to exploit those who are uneducated and impoverished. The opportunity to boss around people and to run roughshod over those who are incapable of asserting themselves, will be missed by some people. Just ask this fellow. Do you think he could have someone cart him around in Austin, or Bath, or Munchen, like this? This image represents far too many male westerners in SE Asia.

Fatso.jpg

Don't feel so bad for the Asian fella...he's keeping fit while that fat Westerner had a horrible case of gout.

[1BADDAT]

On my visits back, yes I have felt the "dullness" of everyday life there. Most people are focused on their SCREENS ... all day at work, on phones, and then video after work. Oh well! What really struck me was a visit to a major shopping mall. In Thailand, that can feel like fun. There, it felt really dull.

Yes, I've already experienced that the tipping culture, already ridiculous, has gotten even more ridiculous.

On the other hand, there are tip jars at some pretty absurd places in Thailand where foreigners gather ... but I think they're mostly just trying it on and don't EXPECT it.

My favorite abomination along that line is the question, "Do you need change?" from the waiter as he picks up your two twenties for a twenty-five dollar tab. "Of course, I need the change. That's why I didn't say, 'Keep the change.' "

In addition, at some point in the last fifteen years waiters turned from being temporary servants into commission-based sales people.

Had two pizzas delivered for a whopping $41. Handed the delivery man a $50. He asked if I need change. Wow. What can one say? I am a generous guy. But $9 to deliver two pizzas? It is a sense of entitlement that dominates the industry. Terrible waiters that I give a poor tip to dish out so much attitude. And if the service is really, really poor, I tip one cent. Thats right. One penny.

i used to always tip too much. Always tipping the minimum 15% for poor or average service has really had a negative affect on the quality of service. Now that I have lived in thailand my tipping philosophy has changed a lot.

[fiddlehead]

I go back every year for a visit.
Some things that usually strike me as way different:

Size of people (many obese) (Huge portions of food if and when you eat out)

No kids on the streets or playgrounds. (I guess they are all inside somewhere)

No litter.

TV commercials seem to get longer, and take more of the programming every year.
I swear they are getting close to 50/50. (many are for over the counter drugs and lawyers looking to sue somebody)

The news harps on things so hard and gets people really scared when they want: Terrorism, Zika, Ebola, Trump, etc. Sometimes these topics take 40 minutes of the evening news hour (including the commercials of course)

Driving: You can bet on the other drivers doing the correct thing.

I come from the east so, it's almost funny how everyone has a nice lawn and spends a lot of time making it look perfect.

Everyone follows the rules (and there are more each year it seems)

I'm sure I'll think of more.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Be prepared for many blank stares and suspicious looks when you tell people you lived in Thailand. I have found it easier just to leave it out of conversations. Its hard because living there was a big part of my life and miss it but people just don't get it.

I am actually thinking of returning to Thailand.

Yes, there definitely are some stereotypes, people watch a PBS documentary on human trafficking and make some conclusions.

Luckily I worked for a company based out of Singapore, so when I am asked "where have you been" I say working in SE Asia. Then if it continues I say I was working for a company based out of Singapore.

95% of Americans if you showed them a map and asked them to point out Singapore would not have a clue, so I leave it at that.

many many people used to ask me about Taiwan...apparently Taiwan and Thailand are the same thing.

Same exact thing from my childhood friend who lives in Colorado "GOM, I don't know how you can live in Thailand when you don't speak any Taiwanese".

Yes, mystifying for sure !

Got that for years too, every time there was an earthquake or typhoon in Taiwan relatives and friends would email me here in Thailand to ask if I was alright ?

[HooHaa]

Oh and tv!!! Wowowow series are sooo good! Everything is dvr and on demand the cable sat channels are insane!!! You will love american TV!! I AM CURRENTLy banging through ray donovan...soooo good...and true detective 1st season was amazing!!!! Tv shows today in the west have gotten so edgy and smart and dark and complicated and weird and funny...even american commercials are all slick and catchy and well produced....

you are aware that all of those shows can be streamed form thailand for free right?

Yea well setting up streaming with thailands shit internet and coding some sleek kodi interface is not the same as kicking back to the American tv experience.

ALL i meant was the comparison to MY tv experience in Thailand....which is crap....3 year old shit series on universal channel...some more extremely lame and limited american programming and bad movies sprinkled through absolutely awful thai programmimg and 10 channels of soccer and cricket.

Wheres the dvr tech! Wheres the nba play offs!!!!

Sorry but the lame work arounds to access the program is NOTHING compared to the american tv experience....

Perhaps I don't give TV enough credit as an experience to begin with.

[anotheruser]

I think there may be 1000 applicants for each of those mythical Walmart greeter gigs! Also many Walmarts have SHUT DOWN.

You lack the personality to do it even if the job opened up. You enjoy talking about yourself for hours on end and that isn't what a walmart greeter does.

[craigt3365]

Fireplay -- where are you?

Jingthing's right. I see people here in Chiang Mai who simply wait too long to get themselves organized for a return to their home countries. By the time that they're frail, unable to care for themselves properly and often can't afford to have someone look after them, it's simply too daunting a task to return. These are the people who end up getting hit by a motorcycle driving up on the sidewalk as they make their daily trip outside the condo, venturing out for a few odds and ends at the mall and a little social interaction with the other old guys at the Tops food court.

I'm following this thread myself, because after eight years here, I'm realizing that Hubby and I don't have an obvious place to go, either, if we had to return to the U.S. He's paid into Medicare Part B and I'm a little too young for Medicare and fortunately we have some savings, so we could afford to look around for a time and would arrange for travel insurance before we left. But we don't have a home and our only relative, my brother, will probably tolerate us living in his basement for just a month or so. We haven't a clue where we'd live, never having children and not being close to my brother, our only sibling.

But, we need to get this organized sooner rather than later before we join the crew of frail retirees whose daily highlight is sitting around the Tops food court congratulating themselves on crossing Huay Kaew Road safely.

I would venture to say getting old and frail sucks in either country, especially if one is without allot of friends or relatives and the funds to live comfortably. Being old and alone in the US is no walk in the park...and in fact it might be better in Thailand even if it means dodging the motorbikes. Medicare kicks in at 65 but it doesn't pay for long term nursing home care, and quality private care can easily run $5000+ per month.

The last reason is why I brought my mother here. Skilled care facilities run $7k/month. If you don't have the money, they take everything you've got. Sucks. I was just with a Canadian guy who is caring for his mother. On his trip here, he's paying $200/night for somebody to stay with his mother. OUCH!!!!!!!!!

[craigt3365]

Oh and tv!!! Wowowow series are sooo good! Everything is dvr and on demand the cable sat channels are insane!!! You will love american TV!! I AM CURRENTLy banging through ray donovan...soooo good...and true detective 1st season was amazing!!!! Tv shows today in the west have gotten so edgy and smart and dark and complicated and weird and funny...even american commercials are all slick and catchy and well produced....

you are aware that all of those shows can be streamed form thailand for free right?

Yea well setting up streaming with thailands shit internet and coding some sleek kodi interface is not the same as kicking back to the American tv experience.

ALL i meant was the comparison to MY tv experience in Thailand....which is crap....3 year old shit series on universal channel...some more extremely lame and limited american programming and bad movies sprinkled through absolutely awful thai programmimg and 10 channels of soccer and cricket.

Wheres the dvr tech! Wheres the nba play offs!!!!

Sorry but the lame work arounds to access the program is NOTHING compared to the american tv experience....

My friend just moved back to the States. He says Netflix there is way better than here. No comparison. We tried it here and cancelled. Not enough content and too much stuttering. He's getting something like 50GB speeds for $20/month. Unreal. I mean REAL 50GB speeds, not the jury rigged ones here.

[craigt3365]

I think there may be 1000 applicants for each of those mythical Walmart greeter gigs! Also many Walmarts have SHUT DOWN.

I researched this a bit. It was more of a consolidation than a massive shut down. News reports were trying to show this as an issue, when it really isn't. Closing down poorly performing stores or ones in an area that already has larger stores is OK.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Agree with the above regarding tipping. Places will ask for a tip even though you place your order at the counter, pick it up when called and clear your own trash. I guess they want a tip for cooking the food. Lol

I've seen at a few Sevens in Thailand that the cheeky clerks have put out tip-jars ?

[grumpyoldman]

Laundry, in Thailand for under 300thb all my clothes washed, dress shirts ironed, perfect.

I think just one shirt ironed is 300thb in the U.S.............

[Jingthing]

Laundry, in Thailand for under 300thb all my clothes washed, dress shirts ironed, perfect.

I think just one shirt ironed is 300thb in the U.S.............

Sure. Anyway for me an in unit laundry is a high priority. Have it in Thailand and using communal machines would feel too depressing and also a pain in the butt. I only ever used commercial laundries in the US for suits.

[mania]

On my visits back, yes I have felt the "dullness" of everyday life there. Most people are focused on their SCREENS ... all day at work, on phones, and then video after work. Oh well! What really struck me was a visit to a major shopping mall. In Thailand, that can feel like fun. There, it felt really dull.

Yes, I've already experienced that the tipping culture, already ridiculous, has gotten even more ridiculous.

On the other hand, there are tip jars at some pretty absurd places in Thailand where foreigners gather ... but I think they're mostly just trying it on and don't EXPECT it.

My favorite abomination along that line is the question, "Do you need change?" from the waiter as he picks up your two twenties for a twenty-five dollar tab. "Of course, I need the change. That's why I didn't say, 'Keep the change.' "

In addition, at some point in the last fifteen years waiters turned from being temporary servants into commission-based sales people.

Had two pizzas delivered for a whopping $41. Handed the delivery man a $50. He asked if I need change. Wow. What can one say? I am a generous guy. But $9 to deliver two pizzas? It is a sense of entitlement that dominates the industry. Terrible waiters that I give a poor tip to dish out so much attitude. And if the service is really, really poor, I tip one cent. Thats right. One penny.

That is the only way it will ever get better

You listen to US folks these days & they sound terrified of not tipping enough pfffft

*&^# it I tip if I feel like I had exceptional service...if not let their employer pay them

If the employer pays sub minimum because the claim the tips make up pay then the waiter can write stiffed on bill & not be taxed

Why should the whole mess fall in the consumers lap?

Anyone tipping all the other workers in the US?

We are moving back shortly to our US home after 4+ year here & I am taking a lot of what I learned here with me.

Sorry stick a fork in me I am done with PC..BS

Same goes for all the pseudo holidays there 5555 Nope done with that too

Edited May 9, 2016 by mania

[craigt3365]

I've never heard of someone from the US being terrified of tipping. A big over dramatic are we? I've always tipped what I wanted. And many times, especially at nicer restaurants, the service is miles above what we get here.

Pseudo holidays there? Really? 555555 Too funny. I miss being able to take a short flight at be in a place like Glacier National Park. Or Yosemite. Or in a few hours, one of the incredibly beautiful Caribbean islands. Or during winter, enjoying a ski holiday in Colorado. Fantastic.

[mania]

Craig3365 said: I've never heard of someone from the US being terrified of tipping. A big over dramatic are we? I've always tipped what I wanted. And many times, especially at nicer restaurants, the service is miles above what we get here.

Pseudo holidays there? Really? 555555 Too funny. I miss being able to take a short flight at be in a place like Glacier National Park. Or Yosemite. Or in a few hours, one of the incredibly beautiful Caribbean islands. Or during winter, enjoying a ski holiday in Colorado. Fantastic.

Sorry forum software not working for me so manually quoted you Craig...might come out wrong

No sorry if intention of my post was misunderstood

What I meant was by reading some of the comments here about what folks there say is the new 15% etc etc

that they seemed overly concerned...Or other claiming beware some sort of revenge attitude when returning to a place you "under" tipped...all too much thinking I think

Also about the Pseudo holidays again sorry for not being clear.... I meant Holidays not holiday trips

What I meant was after living here we got use to not having to perform the Pseudo holidays

Meaning things like Easter Bunnies or the misinterpretation of Christmas etc being a reason for so many to go into debt

because of advertising pressures etc

Of course we take part in them for kids but no need to be a slave to them etc.

I see how my post could have been taken the other way about "Pseudo holidays" 555

No we are also looking forward greatly to hops. Especially as I will no longer need a re-entry permit or need to recalc 90 days...file forms like TM28/30 etc

anytime I feel like taking a nice holiday "trip"

[craigt3365]

5555 Understood! I do HATE the Xmas holidays in the US. Just too much. I'm not religious and don't have kids. So, Xmas is not a big deal to me. It's nice here as it's not so much in your face.

It is nice here not to have to worry about tips. Though we do tip here, small amounts unless we're having a luxury dinner somewhere. And at times, it's automatically included! But at smaller restaurants in the US, I tip very little. That's just me. And never really had a problem. I don't give it a second thought. Though the plight of the servers is an issue....for some. Many make very good money as servers. Very good.

[spidermike007]

5555 Understood! I do HATE the Xmas holidays in the US. Just too much. I'm not religious and don't have kids. So, Xmas is not a big deal to me. It's nice here as it's not so much in your face.

It is nice here not to have to worry about tips. Though we do tip here, small amounts unless we're having a luxury dinner somewhere. And at times, it's automatically included! But at smaller restaurants in the US, I tip very little. That's just me. And never really had a problem. I don't give it a second thought. Though the plight of the servers is an issue....for some. Many make very good money as servers. Very good.

A lot of waiters and waitresses in fine restaurants make $10,000 a month in tips, or more. We have the right to tip as we see fit. I have been chased out the door before, by an irate waiter, who I deliberately left a paltry tip for, after receiving terrible service. I just got in his face and told him if he had been performing his job better, and was able to at least fake a good attitude, he would have gotten a good tip.

Now, alot of restaurants are imposing mandatory 20% tips, for parties of 6 or more. So, at a good restaurants, where you spend $600 for 6 people, they are "imposing" a tip of $120, or over 4,000 baht! It is nuts. And that is in addition to sales tax. So, when eating out at a restaurant in the US, you have to add 20-29% to the bill, to cover tax and tip. It is nuts!

Here, I often get a real nod of appreciation for a 20 or 40 baht tip. So, usually I end up getting far more in the way of thanks for a $1 tip here, than for a $20 tip back in the States, which typically garners barely a glance. There are exceptions. I do encounter alot of very skillful, and highly trained service people in LA and elsewhere, when back in the states.

Christmas in the US long ago became a real circus. When they starting playing christmas tunes in the malls around Halloween, it became pretty ugly. Much better here, with only the occasional christmas carol.

Edited May 10, 2016 by spidermike007

[craigt3365]

I might have mentioned this earlier, I have a friend who just moved back to the US. The price of eating out is one thing he mentions as being incredibly expensive compared to here.

[BKKSnowBird]

I agree about food being expensive especially eating out. Even Chipotle is $9 for a burrito and a drink.

[IMA_FARANG]

Medication......on my last trip (2014) at least half the people i knew were taking domr kind of "medication" for dome kind of "problem" they supposedly had.

This ranged from "allegies" to "attention deficency disorder"

When did tis nonsense start.....where evwetbody has some medication they must take regularly....most of the time from what i think are imagined "disorders" they supposedly have?