Germany grants Turkish call to allow comic's prosecution

[rooster59]

Germany grants Turkish call to allow comic's prosecution

GEIR MOULSON, Associated Press


BERLIN (AP) — The German government on Friday granted a Turkish request to allow the possible prosecution of a German TV comedian who wrote a crude poem about Turkey's president, an awkward decision for Chancellor Angela Merkel as she seeks Ankara's help in reducing Europe's migrant influx.

Turkey demanded last week to have comedian Jan Boehmermann prosecuted for insulting a foreign head of state. German law required Merkel's government to grant permission before prosecutors could consider whether to press charges.

Merkel stressed that it "means neither a prejudgment of the person affected nor a decision about the limits of freedom of art, the press and opinion." She underlined the independence of the judiciary and the presumption of innocence.

She said her government had also decided that Germany's law criminalizing insults of a foreign head of state is "dispensable in the future" and intends to repeal it, effective in 2018.

Merkel also expressed "great concern" about the state of media freedom and the fate of individual journalists in Turkey, as well as restrictions on the right to demonstrate, as she made her announcement in Berlin.

Boehmermann read the poem on ZDF television two weeks ago to illustrate what he said wouldn't be allowed in Germany, contrasting it with another channel's earlier satirical song that also poked fun at Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and angered Turkey.

ZDF withdrew the passage with the poem from its archives but argues that it didn't break the law. Boehmermann's ditty started by describing the Turkish leader as "stupid, cowardly and uptight" before descending into crude sexual references.

While the German government defended the earlier satirical song as legitimate free speech, it distanced itself from the poem, volunteering the opinion last week that it was "deliberately offensive."

German officials have appeared at pains to avoid causing further friction with Erdogan, steering clear of direct criticism of the president in recent weeks amid Turkey's sharp response to German satire.

That has generated criticism of Merkel, who has championed cooperation with Ankara to stem the migrant flow to Europe. Earlier this week, she said Germany's desire to resolve the migrant crisis won't change its commitment to free speech.

Merkel's governing coalition was divided over the Turkish request. The Social Democrats, her junior coalition partners, wanted to reject it.

Justice Minister Heiko Maas, a Social Democrat, said this was the first such case in which the statement at stake was made by a journalist in a satirical program. "Freedom of opinion, the press and art are things requiring the highest protection under our constitution," and that also needed to be taken into account, he said.

In its current form, the legislation involved dates from 1953. It derives from legislation drawn up in the late 19th century that outlawed insulting monarchs.

"The idea of lese-majeste no longer has a place in our criminal law," Maas said.

The German Federation of Journalists said Merkel's announcement sent "the wrong signal to the Turkish government."

"That Erdogan's arm now ultimately reaches to Germany, and via the chancellor, is unacceptable," said Dietmar Bartsch, a top lawmaker with the opposition Left Party. He said Merkel's credibility had been damaged.

Germany's criminal code provides for up to three years in prison for insulting a foreign head of state. However, Alexander Thiele, a legal expert at the University of Goettingen, told n-tv television that even if Boehmermann is convicted, "one can assume that he faces a small fine at most."

In addition to the request to have Boehmermann prosecuted for insulting a foreign head of state, Erdogan also has filed a criminal complaint against Boehmermann under a separate law, alleging slander.

Prosecutors in Mainz, where ZDF is based, are already examining the complaint.

Boehmermann's lawyer, Christian Schertz, said that complaint made Friday's decision to allow the comedian's possible prosecution under the other legislation unnecessary. He noted that the poem was not broadcast alone, "but in the overall context of setting out what is allowed in Germany and what is not."

Erdogan's spokesman couldn't immediately be reached for comment.

-- (c) Associated Press 2016-04-16

[Familyaffairs]

For the German government to take instructions from a repressive regime like Turkey's is setting a new benchmark. Next, maybe N Korea will prevail on Merkel to stifle its opponents.....

[SgtRock]

For the German government to take instructions from a repressive regime like Turkey's is setting a new benchmark. Next, maybe N Korea will prevail on Merkel to stifle its opponents.....

Turkey and Erdogan have Germany and Merkel by the short and curlies.

Just wait until they really start ramping up the pressure.

Merkel should have gone to Greece and not Turkey to help deal with problems.

[Krataiboy]

No insult is bad enough for the odious Turkish leader, who heads up on eof the most brutal nd repressive regimes in the world. Merkel's grovelling support for this monster is what one has come to expect from the German Chancellor who ditched her Communist credentials to become the ultimate capitalist lackey. She and Erdogan are two peas from the same poisonous pod.

[mesterm]

10 points for liberalism?

[bassman]

_{Appears that Erdogan has Merkel bent over the ole tree stump and is having his way with her. Lets hope the German people come to their senses and send both Merkel and Erdogan on their way.}

[Geoffggi]

Merkel is another poor leader, no backbone and all too willing to roll over just to look good, it appears many of the European countries are tarred with the same brush, who ever is responsible for the tree-huggers to gain so much sway has a lot to answer for; we need to have stronger leaders who are willing to stand up to opposition instead of just wanting to look good to other nations. Time to get back our own nationalities and standards also not be ashamed of our own religions & call Christmas time Christmas, if others don't like it go back to where you came from.

[RuamRudy]

I think many people are missing the point. Merkel is not hanging him out to dry, but merely observing the law that makes it an offence to insult a foreign leader, a law which her party is trying to repeal.

If she were to step in and prevent the prosecution, she would be overstepping the line - this way she can show impartiallity while allowing the legal system to, hopefully, find the guy not guilty. At the same time, it further exposes Erdogan for the odious, corrupt megalomaniac that he is - a classic case of the Streisand effect.

[wabothai]

another fatal mistake from angie.

[Sydebolle]

Sure, she will be taking the heat on this one too. The programme (I saw it) is unfunny, lacks taste, class and is below anything entertaining. Notwithstanding the Germans seem to have their funny laws (and skeletons thereof) in their closets too - time for a late spring cleaning.

What did NOT get mentioned and disappeared under the big German juristic carpet is the fact, that only insults against head of states BEING IN THE COUNTRY (i.e. territorial Germany) DURING THE TIME THE INSULT TAKES/TOOK PLACE, can be taken to court.

So, if Erdogan was in Germany or in the premises of a German Embassy/Consulate then he can get a ruling.

Since both don't apply the verdict is clear; he looks like the d"*ç%khead he actually is and the German satirist had his field day.

We'll see

[geriatrickid]

another fatal mistake from angie.

Her hands are tied. German law is in effect. She can't play favourites.

[sawadee1947]

embarrassing "kowtow" of German govern. to the Turkish.

They need the Turkish for solving their refugee problem. In return Erdogan receives 3 Billion Euro.

So no freedom of press and word in Germany. Not so important this time!

It's absolutely sickening, Mrs Merkel!

[sawadee1947]

Merkel is another poor leader, no backbone and all too willing to roll over just to look good, it appears many of the European countries are tarred with the same brush, who ever is responsible for the tree-huggers to gain so much sway has a lot to answer for; we need to have stronger leaders who are willing to stand up to opposition instead of just wanting to look good to other nations. Time to get back our own nationalities and standards also not be ashamed of our own religions & call Christmas time Christmas, if others don't like it go back to where you came from.

Same could be said to the whining anti Songkran expats.

to have stronger leaders

Well one was called Hitler. You got him in mind? Or Stalin? Or Kim, or....

[sawadee1947]

Sure, she will be taking the heat on this one too. The programme (I saw it) is unfunny, lacks taste, class and is below anything entertaining. Notwithstanding the Germans seem to have their funny laws (and skeletons thereof) in their closets too - time for a late spring cleaning.

What did NOT get mentioned and disappeared under the big German juristic carpet is the fact, that only insults against head of states BEING IN THE COUNTRY (i.e. territorial Germany) DURING THE TIME THE INSULT TAKES/TOOK PLACE, can be taken to court.

So, if Erdogan was in Germany or in the premises of a German Embassy/Consulate then he can get a ruling.

Since both don't apply the verdict is clear; he looks like the d"*ç%khead he actually is and the German satirist had his field day.

We'll see

So, if Erdogan was in Germany or in the premises of a German Embassy/Consulate then he can get a ruling.

Yes, that would make sense. However German rights are different. In this case you are absolutely wrong!

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[Rancid]

Angela follows the long standing Euro trait of not standing up to fascist dictators, what was that last guys name again?

[BuaBS]

.

[wabothai]

another fatal mistake from angie.

Her hands are tied. German law is in effect. She can't play favourites.

As I understand it was up to her to involve the German court. She failed to take a tough stand there.

She could have told him: hey you pussy, listen to me..........

[attento]

No surprise that Turkey wants to join the EU, where freedom and democracy are essential pre-conditions. . Turkey meets the standards set by the Germans.

[abrahamzvi]

For the German government to take instructions from a repressive regime like Turkey's is setting a new benchmark. Next, maybe N Korea will prevail on Merkel to stifle its opponents.....

This is an absolute disgrace for the German government headed by Mrs Merkel. She has lost all respect earned last year in her attitude to refugees. She seems to have no principles, nor do her coalition partners, who object to this disgraceful decision, but are not prepared to draw the consequences and leave the coalition. All of them will pay the price for this attitude.

[abrahamzvi]

No surprise that Turkey wants to join the EU, where freedom and democracy are essential pre-conditions. . Turkey meets the standards set by the Germans.

Or rather, the Germans, as leaders of the EU seem to accept and adapt to the standards set by Mr. Erdogan.....

[humqdpf]

No insult is bad enough for the odious Turkish leader, who heads up on eof the most brutal nd repressive regimes in the world. Merkel's grovelling support for this monster is what one has come to expect from the German Chancellor who ditched her Communist credentials to become the ultimate capitalist lackey. She and Erdogan are two peas from the same poisonous pod.

Lets get the history correct - Merkel was never a communist. She, like a huge number of others, found themselves born in former East Germany. She saw the repression and this is what brought her into politics.

That said, I completely am against this use of a crazy law and to show my disgust, I will hereby insult Angela Merkel, Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany

Oh Merkel Merkel!

Talks like a turtle

She looks like a sealion

And walks like one too!

Thankfully, I don't live in a country with such an idiotic law as the Federal Republic of Germany and therefore I do not have to expect to waste the police and judicial authorities time in bringing me to "justice."

[arjunadawn]

Germany, under Merkel, is effectively surrendering the right to exist. This is called Dhimmitude- dhimmi when such behavior curries favor with muslims or muslim nations. When such behavior applies to non muslim nations it might equally be called treason. Examples: when a nation penalizes its own citizens while favoring another nations, surrendering and subordinating its own laws and virtues to accommodate/elevate/prefer inferior or alternative mores, using the power of law or its perversion to assert relativity with regard to the enforcement of laws or jurisdiction (favoring non citizens), manipulating/strong-arming the media to contrive State Narratives that support agenda or sedition, using State's wealth or Promissory powers to lien its citizens (refugee/Turkey Visa/Turkey ascension/ad naseum).

Among the core tenets of Liberalism is Free Speech, free association, freedom of the press, etc. Following the example of America, many nations established premises that recognize that Speech is primarily related to the unpopular, the rude, the disgusting, etc. Merkel's behavior is not only inexplicable but in many ways diametrically opposite the planks of much of her nation's post war politics.

[simple1]

Germany, under Merkel, is effectively surrendering the right to exist. This is called Dhimmitude- dhimmi when such behavior curries favor with muslims or muslim nations. When such behavior applies to non muslim nations it might equally be called treason. Examples: when a nation penalizes its own citizens while favoring another nations, surrendering and subordinating its own laws and virtues to accommodate/elevate/prefer inferior or alternative mores, using the power of law or its perversion to assert relativity with regard to the enforcement of laws or jurisdiction (favoring non citizens), manipulating/strong-arming the media to contrive State Narratives that support agenda or sedition, using State's wealth or Promissory powers to lien its citizens (refugee/Turkey Visa/Turkey ascension/ad naseum).

Among the core tenets of Liberalism is Free Speech, free association, freedom of the press, etc. Following the example of America, many nations established premises that recognize that Speech is primarily related to the unpopular, the rude, the disgusting, etc. Merkel's behavior is not only inexplicable but in many ways diametrically opposite the planks of much of her nation's post war politics.

The decision was reviewed by a number of German government departments, prior to permitting the Turkish government to take this matter to Court & is in fact based upon a specific component of German legislation which as far as I'm aware is not enacted elsewhere in Western countries. Usually such insults against a foreign leader, if a complaint is made, is dealt with at the diplomatic level, I bet occasionally with far worse back room consequence than a court case.

US and other Western countries have legislation in support of defamation / libel / malice, it ain't open slather for 'Free Speech'. A general overview of German law regards defamation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation#Germany

[stevenl]

A lot to do about nothing. A complaint was made, a court will decide if there is ground for a conviction. That's all.

[simple1]

A lot to do about nothing. A complaint was made, a court will decide if there is ground for a conviction. That's all.

Plus planned retraction of the current legislation, from the OP...

"She said her government had also decided that Germany's law criminalizing insults of a foreign head of state is "dispensable in the future" and intends to repeal it, effective in 2018"

[NiwPix]

I said it in a previous thread about this already...

I really really really wish a bunch of other comedians / artists from around the world write / sing / paint some "nice" poems about erdogan in support of Boehmermann.

[simple1]

I said it in a previous thread about this already...

I really really really wish a bunch of other comedians / artists from around the world write / sing / paint some "nice" poems about erdogan in support of Boehmermann.

As you live in Thailand how about exercising 'free speech' on issues forbidden by Thai law and see what happens.

[jaidam]

I said it in a previous thread about this already...

I really really really wish a bunch of other comedians / artists from around the world write / sing / paint some "nice" poems about erdogan in support of Boehmermann.

As you live in Thailand how about exercising 'free speech' on issues forbidden by Thai law and see what happens.

Can you explain what Thai law has to do with Germany kowtowing to Turkey?

No country in their right minds would sacrifice their citizens for a non secular muslim state. Germany under Merkel's helm is clearly not a healthy democracy.

[HLover]

I said it in a previous thread about this already...

I really really really wish a bunch of other comedians / artists from around the world write / sing / paint some "nice" poems about erdogan in support of Boehmermann.

As you live in Thailand how about exercising 'free speech' on issues forbidden by Thai law and see what happens.

No, that would be silly.