What's the problem with western women in Thailand?

[bazza40]

It's farang not falang if you can't be bothered to spell out foreigner.

Back to bar girl language class to you.

It's neither. The correct way to spell the word is using the Thai alphabet. We're not allowed to use that in this part of the forum, but arguing about which transliterated approximation is better is rather futile.

Correct. However, when I hear the word used by Thais, the bias towards the letter "l" is more pronounced because of their difficulty in pronouncing the letter "r".

The Thai alphabet is replete with examples of compound consonants, e.g. a letter halfway between the consonants "d" and "t".

[SoiBiker]

Thailand is not just a handful of hiso people and then a whole load of farmers.

The whole load of farmers is accounted for below. So what do you think the rest of the breakdown is?

"Agricultural production as a whole accounted for an estimated nine percent of Thai GDP and 40 percent of the population works in agriculture-related jobs."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Thailand

Well, unless 60 percent of the population are hiso, I'd say there was quite a few people in the middle somewhere, wouldn't you?

Quite a lot of people seem to be working on market stalls, roadside food vendors, serving and wait staff in shops.

Are those hiso? or can we include them with the low income farmers?

I suppose some of them technically class as SMEs.

[SoiBiker]

It's farang not falang if you can't be bothered to spell out foreigner.

Back to bar girl language class to you.

It's neither. The correct way to spell the word is using the Thai alphabet. We're not allowed to use that in this part of the forum, but arguing about which transliterated approximation is better is rather futile.

Correct. However, when I hear the word used by Thais, the bias towards the letter "l" is more pronounced because of their difficulty in pronouncing the letter "r".

The Thai alphabet is replete with examples of compound consonants, e.g. a letter halfway between the consonants "d" and "t".

Indeed - I generally hear what sounds more like 'falang' much of the time.

It's worth remembering, though, that the local rolled 'r' sound is quite different to the one we might use, and the 'l' sound some replace it with is actually closer to it to some ears.

[1BADDAT]

Thailand is not just a handful of hiso people and then a whole load of farmers.

The whole load of farmers is accounted for below. So what do you think the rest of the breakdown is?

"Agricultural production as a whole accounted for an estimated nine percent of Thai GDP and 40 percent of the population works in agriculture-related jobs."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Thailand

Well, unless 60 percent of the population are hiso, I'd say there was quite a few people in the middle somewhere, wouldn't you?

Yes of course I think there are quite a few in the middle. Would it kill you to just answer the question politely? After all you were the one who started the quote. I was just asking what you thought the breakdown was, and you still haven't answered that.

[ev1lchris]

I'm an Asian American.

I get waaaay more attention from the opposite sex here in SE Asia. It's nuts. Just about everyday some woman is complimenting me on my loveliness.

To goof around I do Asian poses to random beautiful women. More often then not they start laughing.

I'm invisible to most Western women but here in SE Asia I am like Tom Cruise or something.

[SoiBiker]

Thailand is not just a handful of hiso people and then a whole load of farmers.

The whole load of farmers is accounted for below. So what do you think the rest of the breakdown is?

"Agricultural production as a whole accounted for an estimated nine percent of Thai GDP and 40 percent of the population works in agriculture-related jobs."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Thailand

Well, unless 60 percent of the population are hiso, I'd say there was quite a few people in the middle somewhere, wouldn't you?

Yes of course I think there are quite a few in the middle. Would it kill you to just answer the question politely? After all you were the one who started the quote. I was just asking what you thought the breakdown was, and you still haven't answered that.

I've no idea what the breakdown is - I was just making the point that there's more to Thailand than just farmers and the elite.

[bazza40]

I'm an Asian American.

I get waaaay more attention from the opposite sex here in SE Asia. It's nuts. Just about everyday some woman is complimenting me on my loveliness.

To goof around I do Asian poses to random beautiful women. More often then not they start laughing.

I'm invisible to most Western women but here in SE Asia I am like Tom Cruise or something.

Sorry to be obtuse, but it's not clear from your post whether you are male or female. Either way, good luck to you.

[bazza40]

Thailand is not just a handful of hiso people and then a whole load of farmers.

The whole load of farmers is accounted for below. So what do you think the rest of the breakdown is?

"Agricultural production as a whole accounted for an estimated nine percent of Thai GDP and 40 percent of the population works in agriculture-related jobs."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Thailand

It depends on what yardstick is being used. The average rice farm labourer gets 200 - 250 baht a day, and they are not necessarily working every day, which probably explains the disparity between GDP and the number of workers in that classification. A worker in the child-minding field takes home 5000 - 6000 baht a month.

Shops vary depending on demand for the product. There's a restaurant in the village which never seems to have any customers - the locals think it's dirty. In Chiang Rai near the clock tower, there's a shop which must be making a fortune selling sai ua - never short of customers.

[BritManToo]

Yes of course I think there are quite a few in the middle. Would it kill you to just answer the question politely? After all you were the one who started the quote. I was just asking what you thought the breakdown was, and you still haven't answered that.

I've no idea what the breakdown is - I was just making the point that there's more to Thailand than just farmers and the elite.

I can do that, 1% at the top (or less), 4% in the middle, and 95% with nothing.

About the same as America or any other country, the small amount at the top own almost everything.

[BritManToo]

It depends on what yardstick is being used. The average rice farm labourer gets 200 - 250 baht a day, and they are not necessarily working every day, which probably explains the disparity between GDP and the number of workers in that classification. A worker in the child-minding field takes home 5000 - 6000 baht a month.

You're completely wrong, adults living in the Thai agricultural community have a yearly average income of around 25Kbht.

Daily wage in rural Phetchabun for casual farm labour 100-150bht a day, if you can find any work.

I know one lady in a rural village in Phetchabun who earns 3,500bht a month, and is widely considered by her village peers to be rich.

Edited April 20, 2016 by BritManToo

[bazza40]

It depends on what yardstick is being used. The average rice farm labourer gets 200 - 250 baht a day, and they are not necessarily working every day, which probably explains the disparity between GDP and the number of workers in that classification. A worker in the child-minding field takes home 5000 - 6000 baht a month.

You're completely wrong, adults living in the Thai agricultural community have a yearly average income of around 25Kbht.

Daily wage in rural Phetchabun for casual farm labour 100-150bht a day, if you can find any work.

I know one lady in a rural village in Phetchabun who earns 3,500bht a month, and is widely considered by her village peers to be rich.

I did say "not necessarily working every day". My quote of 200 -250 baht a day is correct for the Chiang Rai area. I don't disagree that wages can be higher or lower for various areas of Thailand. For example, a traditional Thai massage in Chiang Mai or Chiang Rai is 200 baht and up per hour.

Out in the sticks, you can get one for 120 baht.

[Acharn]

Most Western women who spend any length of time in Thailand are the wives of executives of Thai branches of foreign companies. Next are high ranking employees of Non-Governmental Organizations (NGOs), especially those that scam a lot of donations based of fictional horror stories about human trafficking (they are not talking about the Rohingya). A smaller contingent would be the dependents of military personnel here for their governments. During the Vietnam War JUSMAGTHAI had at least a couple of hundred families here. Now there only a few. Up until the early '90s there was a support organization that called itself Bangkok Community Services. They were a godsend. Really, really helpful. Unfortunately they lost the lease on the house they used and ended up disbanding. I don't know if there's any such support organization now, so adjusting to Bangkok is much harder.

[SoiBiker]

The western women I know that have been here for years all have jobs.

You know they let women work these days too, right?

[TuskegeeBen]

In my opinion most western women cling together like a covey of quail.

Many are so into their girl friends one has to wonder what their sexual orientation is?

They rarely make eye contact. After close to 10 years living in Thailand I've never seen single Western women stay here very long.

Furthermore, Western women are not attracted to older men like Asian women.

Most western women are very independent as they have savings and income sources. That makes a real difference in the urgency of a relationship.

I'm personally bored with blonde hair and I will take a slim, younger, black, silky, long haired Asian women even if most are acting!

Asian women are more polite, cleaner and if you find a good one will treat you better than most western women

Most retired men are invisible to younger western women in my opinion.

Like my dad said years ago, "there is a reason they are alone and it will be painful to find out why?"

He went on to say,"behind every beautiful woman is a string of broken hearts as everyone wants to be their friend?" "Son, find a plain women when you are young who can be your best friend that is honest and has similiar goals and you will be happy!"

Pop was married to the same woman for 56 years...

I didn't listen!!

Excellent post For the most part, but how did you manage to fathom becoming bored with the color of a woman's skin, or hair color? Just curious?

Edited April 20, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[TuskegeeBen]

For a Western woman like me in Thailand, it's extremely hard to find women's shoes my size and clothing not meant for tiny women. Otherwise, my experience of living in Thailand as a Western female has merely revealed to me much of what the Western world tries to hide in it's hypocrisy (i.e. sex tourism, which I think can translate to human trafficking resulting from poverty, etc) so I have come to realize that people are very much the same everywhere, merging in cultural values more and more as the world unites in the trade pacts and partnerships of commerce which creates a fusion of East-West culture. I have seen this more and more in Phuket and it's provided me with a glimpse of an imminent trend in world unification in cultural value. If people are not "the same", they will soon become much more "the same" as cultures merge and fuse in the financial implementation of Western economic integration that has swept over SE Asia and will immerse Asia in Western economic values. Thai females want to be more Western, and I find that Asian females I encounter want to be as Western as possible so I see less and less of the Thai culture as time passes. As for the experience of being a Western female amongst all the vices mentioned in the original post, as I wrote above, this has only allowed me to glimpse what happens in my own country but it's put in an open and visible way here in Thailand (without "shame" or being hidden). I find many Western women who come here glad to see poor women disenfranchised and put into prostitution and although that will offend many people, it's another hypocritical reality I believe is part of the Western underlying paradigm but hidden under "feminism" or other pretenses. I do not try to offend anyone but the situation as I have seen it is offensive, yet I realize it's pervasive and worldwide.

It has been my honour, and privilege, since 1967, to have been blessed, and fondly acquainted with presence of a western lady in my life, of whom definitely concurs with your unique perspective.

We have copied and pasted your posts to our documents file, for future "Magic Dragon" discussions. Thanks for sharing. Best wishes for your future endeavours, and cheers

Edited April 20, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[TuskegeeBen]

I try not to notice them...and they definitely do not notice me...it is all good...

A real tragedy for you, indeed, as there is a constituency of western menfolk in the LoS, of whom it has been our pleasure to be acquainted with.

It's your attitude that determines your altitude in life

Edited April 20, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[ggt]

TuskegeeBen, on 20 Apr 2016 - 09:42, said:

ggt, on 17 Apr 2016 - 21:48, said:

I try not to notice them...and they definitely do not notice me...it is all good...

A real tragedy for you, indeed, as there is a constituency of western menfolk in the LoS, of whom it has been our pleasure to be acquainted with.

It's your attitude that determines your altitude in life

Neither my attitude nor my altitude need adjusting IMHO...

There is no tragedy here...I have live with and been pleasured by numerous western women...I am not missing anything...

[TuskegeeBen]

TuskegeeBen, on 20 Apr 2016 - 09:42, said:

ggt, on 17 Apr 2016 - 21:48, said:

I try not to notice them...and they definitely do not notice me...it is all good...

A real tragedy for you, indeed, as there is a constituency of western menfolk in the LoS, of whom it has been our pleasure to be acquainted with.

It's your attitude that determines your altitude in life

Neither my attitude nor my altitude need adjusting IMHO...

There is no tragedy here...I have live with and been pleasured by numerous western women...I am not missing anything...

"I try not to notice them...and they definitely do not notice me...it is all good..."

There certainly is a real tragedy there, for sure. You have just admitted to what is "missing" in your life. But of course, I was born yesterday

Remember ~ "Education Empowers Ingenuity". So, whatever floats your "dreamboat", enjoy it, by any means available! Best wishes, and cheers Adios

Edited April 20, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[TuskegeeBen]

Most Western women who spend any length of time in Thailand are the wives of executives of Thai branches of foreign companies. Next are high ranking employees of Non-Governmental Organizations (NGOs), especially those that scam a lot of donations based of fictional horror stories about human trafficking (they are not talking about the Rohingya). A smaller contingent would be the dependents of military personnel here for their governments. During the Vietnam War JUSMAGTHAI had at least a couple of hundred families here. Now there only a few. Up until the early '90s there was a support organization that called itself Bangkok Community Services. They were a godsend. Really, really helpful. Unfortunately they lost the lease on the house they used and ended up disbanding. I don't know if there's any such support organization now, so adjusting to Bangkok is much harder.

You're referring to a totally different, previous genre mentality of American people, also "Gone, With The Wind".

Edited April 20, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[rogeroc]

I would never defend some of the ignorant Posts that the OP refers to, but in general terms i think the negativity towards Western women (as a group) is justified and not difficult to explain. In a similar way as i felt the dreadful name Brits had overseas during the times of football hooliganism was justified.

When such negativity is expressed i would have thought it would be most proactive for the offended group (or individual members of the group) to assess the negativity, why it occurs etc. In short take responsibility and stop blaming others.

[TuskegeeBen]

I would never defend some of the ignorant Posts that the OP refers to, but in general terms i think the negativity towards Western women (as a group) is justified and not difficult to explain. In a similar way as i felt the dreadful name Brits had overseas during the times of football hooliganism was justified.

When such negativity is expressed i would have thought it would be most proactive for the offended group (or individual members of the group) to assess the negativity, why it occurs etc. In short take responsibility and stop blaming others.

A thoughtful and well-written post. However, the negativity towards western womenfolk, is not justified in the least. The hooliganism you refer to, has roots dating back to the 17th. century. The manner with which British treated their own womenfolk, was totally atrocious. The chickens have simply come home to roost, in several (21st. century) culminated ways, shapes and forms.

In your own words, sir! ~ "When such negativity is expressed i would have thought it would be most proactive for the offended group (or individual members of the group) to assess the negativity, why it occurs etc. In short take responsibility and stop blaming others." Good morning, sir!

[JDGRUEN]

As an older fellow, I am just fine with the low number of Western women in Thailand... as it is part of the top 5 reasons I left America to come to Thailand... This particular OP does not seem to fit the bill of the types I left behind in the U.S. but there is always an exception or two. I wouldn't cross the street to have a cup of coffee with a middle aged American gal ... even if it were free.

So, i am Irish not american, if i was coming over to Thailand for a holiday and wanted to have a meet up. you would not come?

Is that because there may be numerous Western women at that meet up, or is it because of some other thing. Obviously your Thai wives would be there too.

How silly is that? It is so bizarre.

Just because your ex Western wife or wives took you to the cleaners financially, kids etc. does not mean we are all like them.

I had an ex husband who beat me every day, does that mean i hate all men? No. I moved on. And so should you.

I didn't provide details so you guessed and no fault of yours you missed the mark totally... I really do not want to create a controversy but the reason is ... middle aged women in America are afflicted with left over and out dated Feminist propaganda of decades ago where men have become the hated half of the species. It has become a hostile environment where middle age women declare openly that men are stupid, men must be managed and women are superior is all things. The fact that this 1970's and 1980's mentality was flawed, middle aged women in America has taken it on with a banner and flag - not knowing much of anything else to do because that is what they were taught back then.

I was happy to exit America - in part - and leave the women behind who wanted to have a mate to control and who would serve her to perform a laundry list of chores - at her supervision... While all I wanted a companion, travel mate, best friend and lover.

In 10 to 15 years I envision long lines of taxis taking these women to assisted living centers totally alone while clutching their list of "He Shall ... "

I'll still be here in Thailand tottering along with at least a paid housekeeper - if not a devoted wife... and enjoying the occasional visits of a sweet lady to comfort me who will not hand me a 'to do' list ... or lecture me about my failings as the lesser half of the species...

Yet another grumpy old man who doesn't know what feminism is.

From your myopic point of view 'grumpy'. How ridiculous ... not even close in my real life. I have a lively life with many friends Farang and Thai - men and women friends. They don't think I am grumpy... You do not know me and you just do not understand the concept of how the better parts of Feminism got lost in the propaganda and indoctrination of a movement that lost its way in America... I know exactly what Feminism has morphed into in the U.S. among middle aged women and it is not good. Feminism in America has become an ugly 'WE - THEY' ... where women who subscribe to this misapplied doctrine posture and ronounce that they are superior and men are just - WELL - Men - a substandard part of the species... Many women who have succumbed to the Feminist Dogma and Indoctrination became blind to the fact that they are outside the current norm as time has past. Younger women in America are throwing off the doctrine of Feminism as they see it went astray from the concept of women's rights and equal pay to Female Superiority thus producing an alienation from the other 1/2 of the species.

Personally I think you are either deranged or satirizing yourself.

Personally - I think that you are estranged from reality ....

[Rimmer]

A flame has been removed also the replies to it:

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed

[JDGRUEN]

It's farang not falang if you can't be bothered to spell out foreigner.

Back to bar girl language class to you.

It's neither. The correct way to spell the word is using the Thai alphabet. We're not allowed to use that in this part of the forum, but arguing about which transliterated approximation is better is rather futile.

The true spoken sound of the average Thai when saying the word Farang is closer to a combination of an R-L coupled sound ... which is difficult to show in phonetic transliteration... Similar to the way other sounds have a coupled sound of two English letters. Such as the Thai word for the number 8... or the Thai word for a boiled rice porridge. I believe a study using a voice sound frequency analyzer would prove this... It is not R and not L in Farang ... it is a blend -- a coupling.

[rogeroc]

A thoughtful and well-written post. However, the negativity towards western womenfolk, is not justified in the least. The hooliganism you refer to, has roots dating back to the 17th. century. The manner with which British treated their own womenfolk, was totally atrocious. The chickens have simply come home to roost, in several (21st. century) culminated ways, shapes and forms.

In your own words, sir! ~ "When such negativity is expressed i would have thought it would be most proactive for the offended group (or individual members of the group) to assess the negativity, why it occurs etc. In short take responsibility and stop blaming others." Good morning, sir!

Thanks for your comments and guess we will never agree on whether the stereotyping is justified or not. Re your first paragraph i would argue that 2 wrongs do not make a right.

I will try and explain better my point be referring to a para below from the OP who is complaining about being stereotyped.

'These are the western guys who’ve moved to Thailand after being burned in the West.

They’re often a little older and perhaps a little old-fashioned. Maybe they’ve gone through a messy divorce, or a custody battle, where it’s well accepted that the scales are often weighted in favour of women. This isn’t the place to discuss the ethics of that, but I can certainly sympathise to some extent with the man who’s ended up, well, a little bitter at his lot.

A fellow Brit – let’s call him Nigel – who I’ve spoken to a few times in the pub fits into this bracket.

Nigel endured a messy divorce with a woman he thought he’d be with forever who essentially just went off him. It happens.'

In sentence 2 the OP has already herself stereotyped poor old Nigel. In sentence 3 she shows some empathy for Nigel but a couple of paragraphs later she trivialises Nigel's problems by saying 'It Happens'. In all probability poor old Nigel has quite likely lost 3 quarters of his wealth and his children to a woman he devoted himself to.

In summary i agree with the OP that Nigel should not dwell on the bitterness. However the OP in the example above has understood one reason for Western women being stereotyped but by feigned empathy and trivialisation has not taken responsibility upon herself to demonstrate the stereotyping to be unjustified.

[SoiBiker]

So because Nigel's wife went off him, all western women are bad?

[rogeroc]

I think the OP understands that Nigel is not a 'one off'. Your responses are so often not constructive.

[dick dasterdly]

I'm always amazed by all of these stories about Western wives running off with all the money!

Were there kids involved, which would mean that any court judgement would consider them a priority when coming to a decision?

[bazza40]

So because Nigel's wife went off him, all western women are bad?

So because you think your Western wife is the greatest thing since sliced bread, all Western women are good?

[TuskegeeBen]

It's farang not falang if you can't be bothered to spell out foreigner.

Back to bar girl language class to you.

It's neither. The correct way to spell the word is using the Thai alphabet. We're not allowed to use that in this part of the forum, but arguing about which transliterated approximation is better is rather futile.

The true spoken sound of the average Thai when saying the word Farang is closer to a combination of an R-L coupled sound ... which is difficult to show in phonetic transliteration... Similar to the way other sounds have a coupled sound of two English letters. Such as the Thai word for the number 8... or the Thai word for a boiled rice porridge. I believe a study using a voice sound frequency analyzer would prove this... It is not R and not L in Farang ... it is a blend -- a coupling.

Thank you, for that very "basic" phonics lesson. Now, returning to the topic thread of discussion.

Edited April 21, 2016 by TuskegeeBen