Just announced: State of Palestine Passports

[Jingthing]

the Israel demonization agenda has many fans.

Why would that be

Perhaps you missed the point.

Israel demonization, very often related to Jew hatred (see a great example above) is NOT the same thing as NORMAL criticism of Israeli government policies, as one might direct at any nation deserving of criticism (pretty much ALL of them).

The extreme level and obsession of Israel demonization is WAY out of proportion to the actual faults of Israeli government policies, RELATIVE to many other nations, doing much worse. In other words, it is IRRATIONAL and HATEFUL.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Jingthing

[dexterm]

I think there may possibly be a good news aspect in this news from the POV of those like me that support a two state solution, Palestine and Israel living side by side in peace, but separated.

Of course Israel would continue to have a large Arab minority (currently about 20 percent) and the state of Palestine will likely not allow Jewish citizens (very racist of them, but that would be their choice and right). Some of Israel's Arab citizens might choose to move to Palestine, but likely not a high percentage.

A State of Palestine passport may well instill PRIDE in the idea of a SEPARATE state of Palestine with reasonable borders directly negotiated with Israel. No, I'm not suggesting that this will actually happen anytime soon, or that it would be at all easy for that to even happen ... but that's still the best hope for BOTH peoples.

Like I said currently most young West Bank Arabs don't have the two state dream. Maybe, just maybe, the identity of these passports may change that feeling.

So personally I have no problem with this new passport labeling. It's neutral and maybe even hopeful.

You may or may not be right about the issuing of Palestinian passports leading to a 2 state solution.

For that to happen Israel would have to make the Palestinians a realistic fair offer. The basics of a deal acceptable to the Palestinians and the whole Arab world have been public knowledge for decades..basically land swaps based on the 1967 map.

If someone in the White House one day (Bernie Sanders is my man, but I doubt he will get elected) were brave enough to stand up to Israel and at least abstain on a vote of full Palestinian UN membership.

At that stage the Palestinians could simply say: Israel has been dragging its feet too long; the much compromised area of land on offer is simply not viable; we make a claim for our entire historic homeland to share with Israel in a one state solution.

Israel is not going anywhere, and nor are the Palestinians. Meanwhile Israel's demographic and democratic dilemma grows.

Edited April 18, 2016 by dexterm

[DaddyWarbucks]

Palestine issuing passports again after all these years.

Maybe some of the old Zionists might want one to go along with their Palestinian birth certificates.

[Steely Dan]

It's all much ado about nothing. The Palestinian 'authority' has not had an election in nine years, if they did Hamas would walk it. Two thirds of Palestinians want Abbas to go, so any announcement coming from Ramallah should be viewed in this light. Hamas in Gaza are flat broke to the degree their fighters are on 1/3 wages. Over the last few months no fewer than thirteen of their tunnels have collapsed. The Arab nations to varying degrees have made their peace with Israel. As Netanyahu remarked, it is this which may well lead to a settlement with the Palestinians and not the other way round which the west persists in hoping for.

I hope there is an independent Palestinian state under new leaders, they are then welcome to their passports, but I suspect the damage done by the incitement of Palestinian leaders will mean at least two generations before any normal relations will be possible.

[Jingthing]

I reckon they can make lots of shekels on the fees to issue all those new passports!

[Jingthing]

It's all much ado about nothing. The Palestinian 'authority' has not had an election in nine years, if they did Hamas would walk it. Two thirds of Palestinians want Abbas to go, so any announcement coming from Ramallah should be viewed in this light. Hamas in Gaza are flat broke to the degree their fighters are on 1/3 wages. Over the last few months no fewer than thirteen of their tunnels have collapsed. The Arab nations to varying degrees have made their peace with Israel. As Netanyahu remarked, it is this which may well lead to a settlement with the Palestinians and not the other way round which the west persists in hoping for.

I hope there is an independent Palestinian state under new leaders, they are then welcome to their passports, but I suspect the damage done by the incitement of Palestinian leaders will mean at least two generations before any normal relations will be possible.

It is sad.

The Palestinians have had VERY BAD leadership.

From the very start.

But water under the bridge, you're right, there is no easy or quick answer. Even starting today (which isn't happening) it will definitely take generations to heal the divides.

[guapo]

Only if you watch porn, if you do some serious research things could be very interesting

[Jingthing]

Only if you watch porn, if you do some serious research things could be very interesting

OK. Enough. Ignore list time.

[Ulysses G.]

the Israel demonization agenda has many fans.

Why would that be

Obvious anti-Semitism - no matter how much the demonizers lie about it and no matter how much they deny the holocaust.

Palestine issuing passports again after all these years.

Maybe some of the old Zionists might want one to go along with their Palestinian birth certificates.

All courtesy of the BRITISH government. They were British passports. There has never been a country called Palestine governed by Arabs.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[up-country_sinclair]

the holocaust.

That didn't take long.

[Harveyg]

What is the state of Palestine? where is it? dose it have it's own currency? dose it have a defined borders?

dose it have a legal Capitol city? was a Palestinian sate was declared by the UN while everyone was sleeping?

Just as well, let them give back the Israeli passports that they have been using so far, and let them use the

new one, good luck to them,,,,

Hopefully one day soon, the questions you ask will be resolved in a fair and amicable manner - they are, after all, perfectly legitimate questions that any citizen of any country should be allowed to ask of himself. Thankfully the West is increasingly waking up to the plight of the Palestinians - the tide is finally turning.

"The plight". Now that's an interesting expression. I would say there's a bit of wake up also to what groups like Hamas espouse. (Ask a few Europeans what they think now. Not the same? Really?)

But then again, some still superimpose their western sensibilities on non western situations.

When you wake up you'd better check both sides of the bed.

Your suggestion that Palestinian = terrorist is very presumptuous and, I am sure, a highly insulting insinuation. Are all Irish to be classed as terrorists because of the Continuity IRA or whatever they choose to call themselves?

It was such fantastic western sensibilities as imperialism and invasion, land theft, concentration camps etc which led to this situation in the first place. Maybe it is time that we moved on from those because they do nothing to foster peace.

It indeed is time and has been time to move on. There are, in fact, numerous stories of coexistence between Israeli Jews and Palestinians. My own sister taught young teenagers English for a time just two years ago. There's a story about an Israeli and Palestinian co- owning and operating a restaurant together. That friendship with trust took quite some time to develop as you might imagine. Many other stories that don't make it to the 6 o'clock news. So yes, some have moved on. Religious on both sides perhaps havnt, although one might find a greater intransigence on the Muslim side with more radical clerics. I trust that is not highly insulting. Governments are another story. Hamas makes it very clear it does not accept the state of Israel. I don't see where I made the statement Palestinians=terrorist. I do not believe that. On the other hand, Hamas = terrorist I will stand by whether you think it's even a little bit insulting and I don't think it's the least bit presumptuous. What I find amazing (and presumptuous) is that armchair westerners far from the experience being talked about can so easily overlook the actions of Hamas. Instead, arguments are made that Israel is responsible for the Hamas way of thinking as if Palestinians bear no responsibilities for their "plight". Whatever the govt of Israel has done it does not merit state extinction. I can't believe I'm even saying this. Did the IRA speak to the destruction of Great Britain? I forget.

At any rate, perhaps as more and more humane connections are made between peoples then perhaps an opportunity for a more peaceful existence is possible.

[Harveyg]

Palestine issuing passports again after all these years.

Maybe some of the old Zionists might want one to go along with their Palestinian birth certificates.

Let me get something straight. When posters refer derogatorily to Zionists are you saying that Israel never should have received a homeland in 1948? What do you mean when you use the term?

The guys who agreed with you please feel free to respond as well as to what you mean.

[Harveyg]

the holocaust.

That didn't take long.

How easy it is for you to roll off your tongue, and to make a snide remark with it. How insulting!

Half the Jews in the world were killed. Do you think that affects how Israel defends itself? Perhaps you think it's just silly paranoia? Do you think it has no bearing on everything that happens there?

You can afford to have a short memory. Jews everywhere cannot. Our memories, in fact, go much further back as well as recently as yesterday's overheard conversation in the street. So if you're tired of hearing it be grateful your people survived intact.

[dexterm]

the Israel demonization agenda has many fans.

Why would that be

Obvious anti-Semitism - no matter how much the demonizers lie about it and no matter how much they deny the holocaust.

Palestine issuing passports again after all these years.

Maybe some of the old Zionists might want one to go along with their Palestinian birth certificates.

All courtesy of the BRITISH government. They were British passports. There has never been a country called Palestine governed by Arabs.

It is a war crime that the Jewish holders of those Palestine passports along with European Zionist immigrants who did not even have Palestine passports will not allow the Palestinian holders of those same passports to return to their homes where they were born. That is ethnic cleansing, something Israel should be ashamed of.

It is interesting to note how the mantra has subtly changed from "There never was a country called Palestine" to "There never was a country called Palestine [run by Arabs]". I suppose that's progress of sorts. In the future no doubt the mantra will morph again into "There never was a country called Palestine [run by Arabs,if you don't count Ottomans as Arabs].

Look to the future not the past.

[geriatrickid]

Diplomatically, Palestine already operates as an independent state having 81 embassies and 9 consulates in nations throughout the world. In the Americus that includes Canada and Mexico but not the USA.

http://embassy.goabroad.com/embassies-of/palestine

The Palestinian Arabs can call their offices whatever they want, but that doesn't mean they are embassies or consulates.

Canada: It is a mission housing a general delegation. It is neither embassy, nor consulate. and NOT accredited as such.

Mexico: The delegation is a "Special Representation" Office. It is neither embassy, nor consulate. and NOT accredited as such.

Will you be correcting your misinformation?

[DONHUAN]

This new Palestinian initiative will only trigger a robust Israeli response which could possibly end-up with the Israeli army inside Palestinian territory on some pretexts. Israel will only accept a Palestine State on Israeli terms; otherwise the land-locked Palestine exists on the goodwill of the Israeli government, with tacit approval of the USA.

Nevertheless, this Palestinian passport is an exercise in futility as it will not be recognized by the nations at the UN due to expected Israelis / US objections; nothing really moves in the Middle East without the Israeli/ US active approval. Israel will continue to be the USA’s encumbrance akin to what Northern Korea is to China.

[Morch]

Those favoring the (seemingly unilateral) move may wish to read the full article linked in the OP.

Obviously there are some PR points to be earned (domestically and internationally), but the ones who will actually face even further hardship will be ordinary Palestinians. International travel on a Palestinian Authority issued passport is already quite a hassle (not all of those countries expressing recognition and support of the Palestinians accept their documents). Not likely to be much of a problem for either forum cheerleaders or the higher echelons of Palestinian leadership, though. This is probably going to make things even more complicated for Palestinians residing in the Gaza Strip, due to the Fatah-Hamas rift (shortly explained in the article).

The Palestinian Authority does not control any border pass. All Palestinians wishing to leave or enter the West Bank go through Israeli immigration. Other than a PR stunt, there is no way for the move to be successful if Israel would oppose it. Conceivably, the new passports could be used for the next lag of international travel, but that would mean retaining the previously issued passports as well.

From the various versions, it is hard to tell if the move was actually coordinated with Israel. Certainly, the Palestinian intent was communicated publicly (there was even a previous topic running on TVF), and Israeli officials in touch with the Palestinian must be aware of it - but that's not quite the same. Somehow finding it hard to believe that the current Israeli government accepted such a change without a major uproar from certain coalition partners.

[Morch]

Here's an old one, check out the name and what language is that written on it?

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1460954517.539032.jpg

That's a British Mandate Passport. The ones issued by the Palestinian Authority look like

[Morch]

Palestine issuing passports again after all these years.

Maybe some of the old Zionists might want one to go along with their Palestinian birth certificates.

Hardly "again", as you are surely aware.

The British Mandate of Palestine is not the same as the future Palestinian State.

Even if Israelis were to wish for the rather useless Palestinian passport, they would not be eligible.

[Scott]

A few off- topic posts and replies have been removed. It's about a passport issue. Stay on topic.

[Morch]

the Israel demonization agenda has many fans.

Why would that be

Obvious anti-Semitism - no matter how much the demonizers lie about it and no matter how much they deny the holocaust.

Palestine issuing passports again after all these years.

Maybe some of the old Zionists might want one to go along with their Palestinian birth certificates.

All courtesy of the BRITISH government. They were British passports. There has never been a country called Palestine governed by Arabs.

It is a war crime that the Jewish holders of those Palestine passports along with European Zionist immigrants who did not even have Palestine passports will not allow the Palestinian holders of those same passports to return to their homes where they were born. That is ethnic cleansing, something Israel should be ashamed of.

It is interesting to note how the mantra has subtly changed from "There never was a country called Palestine" to "There never was a country called Palestine [run by Arabs]". I suppose that's progress of sorts. In the future no doubt the mantra will morph again into "There never was a country called Palestine [run by Arabs,if you don't count Ottomans as Arabs].

Look to the future not the past.

Starts with whining about issues dating back decades ago, ends with "Look to the future not the past"

As far as I understand the new passports labeled State-of-Palestine will be made available to Palestinian residents of the West Bank. Couldn't find much be way of reference to them being issued to Palestinians residing elsewhere (not even in the Gaza Strip). Seems like the Palestinian Authority is not as keen as some posters to make this into a full blown "thing".

[Morch]

Some links relating to the OP:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_passport

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Palestinian_citizens

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_diplomatic_missions_of_Palestine

And an article touching on some of the issues (same source as the OP, btw):

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4401168,00.html

[Steely Dan]

Here's an old one, check out the name and what language is that written on it?

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1460954517.539032.jpg

That's a British Mandate Passport. The ones issued by the Palestinian Authority look like

I think we both know that Morch. How about this one?

[Morch]

Here's an old one, check out the name and what language is that written on it?

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1460954517.539032.jpg

That's a British Mandate Passport. The ones issued by the Palestinian Authority look like

I think we both know that Morch. How about this one?

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1461068938.423576.jpg

Their border pass smells of mothballs, and there's only one lighting fixture.

[VillageIdiot]

Palestine issuing passports again after all these years.

Maybe some of the old Zionists might want one to go along with their Palestinian birth certificates.

Hardly "again", as you are surely aware.

The British Mandate of Palestine is not the same as the future Palestinian State.

Even if Israelis were to wish for the rather useless Palestinian passport, they would not be eligible.

If Jews born in Palestine before 1948 showed their Palestinian birth certificates, wouldn't they be eligible for one of the new passports?

[Jingthing]

Palestine issuing passports again after all these years.

Maybe some of the old Zionists might want one to go along with their Palestinian birth certificates.

Hardly "again", as you are surely aware.

The British Mandate of Palestine is not the same as the future Palestinian State.

Even if Israelis were to wish for the rather useless Palestinian passport, they would not be eligible.

If Jews born in Palestine before 1948 showed their Palestinian birth certificates, wouldn't they be eligible for one of the new passports?

Last I heard the state of Palestine if it ever exists (doesn't now, maybe never) does not intend to allow any Jews as citizens. Does that answer your snarky question? It was really a stupid question anyway. They were born under the BRITISH mandate of Palestine. No relation to this current aspirational "nation" with the passports.

[Morch]

Palestine issuing passports again after all these years.

Maybe some of the old Zionists might want one to go along with their Palestinian birth certificates.

Hardly "again", as you are surely aware.

The British Mandate of Palestine is not the same as the future Palestinian State.

Even if Israelis were to wish for the rather useless Palestinian passport, they would not be eligible.

If Jews born in Palestine before 1948 showed their Palestinian birth certificates, wouldn't they be eligible for one of the new passports?

No. Again... The British Mandate of Palestine is not the same as the future Palestinian State.

[VillageIdiot]

Palestine issuing passports again after all these years.

Maybe some of the old Zionists might want one to go along with their Palestinian birth certificates.

Hardly "again", as you are surely aware.

The British Mandate of Palestine is not the same as the future Palestinian State.

Even if Israelis were to wish for the rather useless Palestinian passport, they would not be eligible.

If Jews born in Palestine before 1948 showed their Palestinian birth certificates, wouldn't they be eligible for one of the new passports?

Last I heard the state of Palestine if it ever exists (doesn't now, maybe never) does not intend to allow any Jews as citizens. Does that answer your snarky question? It was really a stupid question anyway. They were born under the BRITISH mandate of Palestine. No relation to this current aspirational "nation" with the passports.

No Palestinian passports for Jews then.

OK, that's clarified.

But what about their Palestinian birth certificates?

Surely they prove the existence of a Palestinian state prior to the creation of Israel in 1948.

Yes, they were occupied by the British, but so was India and much of the rest of the world.

Zionist propaganda collapses when you study the history of the Middle East.

[Morch]

If Jews born in Palestine before 1948 showed their Palestinian birth certificates, wouldn't they be eligible for one of the new passports?

Last I heard the state of Palestine if it ever exists (doesn't now, maybe never) does not intend to allow any Jews as citizens. Does that answer your snarky question? It was really a stupid question anyway. They were born under the BRITISH mandate of Palestine. No relation to this current aspirational "nation" with the passports.

No Palestinian passports for Jews then.

OK, that's clarified.

But what about their Palestinian birth certificates?

Surely they prove the existence of a Palestinian state prior to the creation of Israel in 1948.

Yes, they were occupied by the British, but so was India and much of the rest of the world.

Zionist propaganda collapses when you study the history of the Middle East.

India did not exist, as a unified state (or nation, for that matter), prior to the British taking over.

In the same way, there was no Palestinian state.

This been gone over dozens of times on these topics.

Doesn't have much to do with the OP, anyway.

[arjunadawn]

It's symbolic. They already could get passports. I don't see it as a significant step towards an ACTUAL two state solution OR a merging of Israel and Palestine. Basically the status quo (not great) is the same. For actual progress, there needs to be DIRECT negotiations between Israel and whatever leadership is legitimate for the Palestinians (questionable at this point). I say questionable because you've got super old Abbas who his own people overwhelmingly hate and then in Gaza you've got Hamas rule, a full blown terrorist organization dedicated to genocide of the Jews.

I do understand younger West Bank Palestinians don't really care much about a two state solution. They want to be part of a greater Israelastine. But guess what, Israelis DON'T want that -- the reason for Israel's existence is to be a homeland for the Jewish people, including minorities of course, but Jews being the minority in their ONE national homeland is a NON STARTER ... so good luck with that one.

Arab people have MANY MANY nations already where they are the majority.

Jewish people only have the ONE and it is called ISRAEL ... and will NOT let it go, not after what the Jewish people have been through over the centuries.

Cheers and hope the people getting these new passports will use them in PEACE. That is not a prediction, but a HOPE.

This is one of the most objective, reasoned posts on this type of topic i have read in a while. Thanks.