The argument against dual pricing in Thailand

[Bluespunk]

@mgjackson69

Because discrimination based on nationality is wrong.

It is a blunt weapon with no redeeming features.

It takes no account of ability to pay.

It takes no account of tax paying status.

It takes no account of residency.

It takes no account of contributions to the economy.

Its not discrimination. Its giving locals discounts which as I and several other people have pointed out happens ALL over the world.

Just because you say its discrimination does not make it fact.

Far stretch to call it a weapon. What is it going to do poke an eye out or something LOL

No, it's discrimination because it is based on nationality not whether you live locally or not.

Where it is non discriminatory across the world, as has been pointed out by others (something you appear to value), is when it is based upon local residents living in country or in other cases the local area, nationality does not matter.

Didnt you read one of my earlier posts where I sited an example of where I was given a locals discount in Phuket? Guess you didnt?

MANY businesses in the US give discounts to US service members. If a civilian doesnt get a discount does that mean a business is racist?

What about senior citizen discounts? Racist?

What about special discounts to card holders at hotel chains around the world? Racist conspiracy?

Your argument is extremely flawed. Quit whining, it isnt becoming of an adult.

I read your earlier posts and big whoop, you once got a discount. Well ain't that great. Makes absolutly no difference to the point that discrimination in the basis of nationality is wrong.

As for all your nonsense about racism?

A: you need to look up what the word means.

B:I never used the R word.

You say my argument is flawed yet you seem unable to counter it with anything but dull anecdotes and childish insults. Grow up.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Bluespunk

[Bluespunk]

@mgjackson69

Because discrimination based on nationality is wrong.

It is a blunt weapon with no redeeming features.

It takes no account of ability to pay.

It takes no account of tax paying status.

It takes no account of residency.

It takes no account of contributions to the economy.

No reasonable person would argue against Discrimination based on Race (nationality) is wrong. But is it really 'discrimination' to charge overseas tourists more than natives? In the case of National Parks, which happen to 'belong' to the all the Thai people in the first place, aren't they the ones getting ripped off?

The rest of your points are pretty much ridiculous and simply padding. Before you get to that infamous 'bottom line', the one that says so much.

It takes no account of contributions to the economy.

Meaning your contributions. You reckon you are doing the country a favour by being here, 'so generously contributing' You see this as an insult because you help to personally prop up the Thai economy.

Tell me I am wrong.

My bottom line?

It is simple, easy. If it pisses you off that much, don't pay, don't go in, avoid the stress.

This topic has been done to death - for decades!

You're wrong.

[dcnx]

Very few places are even worth the Thai price, especially their parks. Most parks and attractions here are poorly kept and not worth seeing unless you don't have much life experience anywhere else in the world. But if you have been to Western or modern Asian attractions / parks, just about everything in Thailand is unworthy. Notable exceptions would be a couple water marine parks in the islands, but they are ruining those too.

[pattjock]

I agree that discrimination based on nationality and racism are bad things and should not exist. What I do not understand is why some people bring this up in relation to dual pricing as there is no relation what so ever between the two.

When it comes to tourist attractions they operate in two ways. Some charge a single price they need to charge to get a reasonable return on their investment.

Others charge a little bit less but also allow locals to enter at a discount to make up for the difference.

In the second case they don’t charge the tourists MORE, they give a DISCOUNT to the locals.

The attractions with dual pricing can offer a lower price for the tourists and at the same time give locals an opportunity to visit often for a discounted price.

It looks to me that everyone complaining about dual pricing can just not stand seeing someone else get a better deal than themselves.

The only outcome of a complete ban on dual pricing would be higher prices for the tourists and many locals would probably not afford to visit.

So in fact dual pricing is not discrimination it’s a way to use a discounted price for locals to make the price for tourists LOWER than it would have been with the same price for everyone, everyone is a winner.

As for dual pricing at national parks and temples I can understand the argument that these are owned by and directly/indirectly paid for by the Thai people so a discount for them is not unreasonable.

Having said that I don’t think there should be dual pricing at these places as in most cases the vast majority of visitors are locals so the additional revenue from tourists do not make up for the hassle of charging tourists extra.

Also as long as many of these places, like koh Samet, look more like garbage dumps than national parks I don’t feel like paying anything to visit them.

[Farang99]

Might help if other countries would apply reciprocity. Visitors from Thailand or countries with the same practice should be charged higher rates, maybe several times as much for sightseeing spots and 50% more for restaurants and shops. Thais should not be allowed to buy land or set up owned businesses. In a legal dispute with a local the Thai is automatically in the wrong. etc This should only apply to countries with such racist discriminatory laws.

Maybe the process you describe... which I agree with.... ought to include looking at imports.

Seems like most things imported cost much more than they should. Granted there are shipping costs, but how does Walmart sell imported items cheaply?

It is not just or even mostly shipping costs that cause the high price of imports - it is the hefty duty charged on everything, from 100% upwards (300% on wine)

[MartinL]

... never paid a single dime on taxes except VAT like everybody else.

In 2014, the Thailand Revenue Dept. report stated that the total annual VAT take was 2.5 times the total annual personal Income Tax take.

Therefore, VAT is 2.5 times as important for maintenance of government-funded facilities & infrastructure as Income Tax.

Don't forget all the other consumption taxes that non-Income Tax payers also have to pay.

I, as a non-working foreigner living in Thailand, am subject to exactly the same taxes as a non-working Thai.

Edited April 23, 2016 by MartinL

[ttthailand]

The worst part is that I have already been to these parks and don't really care to go back except that the Thai family wants to go. So I am expected to pay more for helping out my Thai family.

[ddavidovsky]

Doesn't bother me at all. I can generally afford the higher price, and I understand the sound economic principle behind it.

Please explain the 'sound economic principle behind it' to me.

Supply and demand.

And on a bigger level: human nature.

[ddavidovsky]

Those who still defend equal pricing are living in a Marxist utopia. Fact is, while people may be held to be equal in terms of their human rights, they are simply not equal in other ways, certainly not economic. National GDP is a fair indication that foreigners do actually have more disposable income.

Price discrimination, which in economics not just necessary but inevitable, should discriminate against the well-heeled rather than the poor. If everyone was charged the same, that would discriminate against those with least money. That's worse.

This is not a human rights issue, but an economic one. The question is really how much the differential should be for tourist sights. I say 50% extra for foreigners is fair until Thai GDP per capita is equivalent to that of their foreign tourists.

[mrrizzla]

Those who still defend equal pricing are living in a Marxist utopia. Fact is, while people may be held to be equal in terms of their human rights, they are simply not equal in other ways, certainly not economic. National GDP is a fair indication that foreigners do actually have more disposable income.

Price discrimination, which in economics not just necessary but inevitable, should discriminate against the well-heeled rather than the poor. If everyone was charged the same, that would discriminate against those with least money. That's worse.

This is not a human rights issue, but an economic one. The question is really how much the differential should be for tourist sights. I say 50% extra for foreigners is fair until Thai GDP per capita is equivalent to that of their foreign tourists.

What about the Thais that are richer than me? And I don't mind to say there is few fair of them.

So if I rock up to the national park on my suzuki step motorcycle and some high so arrives in his shiny new Benz, I should have to pay more based on the colour of my skin?

Marxist utopia...peh! What's right is right. If I am expected to pay more on the basis that I am rich because of my skin colour then a Thai driving a Merc should also be charged more on the basis of the car they drive.

[Bluespunk]

Those who still defend equal pricing are living in a Marxist utopia. Fact is, while people may be held to be equal in terms of their human rights, they are simply not equal in other ways, certainly not economic. National GDP is a fair indication that foreigners do actually have more disposable income.

Price discrimination, which in economics not just necessary but inevitable, should discriminate against the well-heeled rather than the poor. If everyone was charged the same, that would discriminate against those with least money. That's worse.

This is not a human rights issue, but an economic one. The question is really how much the differential should be for tourist sights. I say 50% extra for foreigners is fair until Thai GDP per capita is equivalent to that of their foreign tourists.

If the intention is to price according to means then everyone should just produce their payslips for last 6 months and price should be based on that. Plenty of Thais earn a lot more than me.

[pattjock]

Those who still defend equal pricing are living in a Marxist utopia. Fact is, while people may be held to be equal in terms of their human rights, they are simply not equal in other ways, certainly not economic. National GDP is a fair indication that foreigners do actually have more disposable income.

Price discrimination, which in economics not just necessary but inevitable, should discriminate against the well-heeled rather than the poor. If everyone was charged the same, that would discriminate against those with least money. That's worse.

This is not a human rights issue, but an economic one. The question is really how much the differential should be for tourist sights. I say 50% extra for foreigners is fair until Thai GDP per capita is equivalent to that of their foreign tourists.

If the intention is to price according to means then everyone should just produce their payslips for last 6 months and price should be based on that. Plenty of Thais earn a lot more than me.

The intention is not to price according to means, the intention is to get a fair return on the investment as most tourist attractions are.

As I said in post #124:

"The only outcome of a complete ban on dual pricing would be higher prices for the tourists and many locals would probably not afford to visit.

So in fact dual pricing is not discrimination it’s a way to use a discounted price for locals to make the price for tourists LOWER than it would have been with the same price for everyone, everyone is a winner."

Edited April 23, 2016 by pattjock

[Bluespunk]

Those who still defend equal pricing are living in a Marxist utopia. Fact is, while people may be held to be equal in terms of their human rights, they are simply not equal in other ways, certainly not economic. National GDP is a fair indication that foreigners do actually have more disposable income.

Price discrimination, which in economics not just necessary but inevitable, should discriminate against the well-heeled rather than the poor. If everyone was charged the same, that would discriminate against those with least money. That's worse.

This is not a human rights issue, but an economic one. The question is really how much the differential should be for tourist sights. I say 50% extra for foreigners is fair until Thai GDP per capita is equivalent to that of their foreign tourists.

If the intention is to price according to means then everyone should just produce their payslips for last 6 months and price should be based on that. Plenty of Thais earn a lot more than me.

The intention is not to price according to means, the intention is to get a fair return on the investment as most tourist attractions are.

As I said in post #124:

"The only outcome of a complete ban on dual pricing would be higher prices for the tourists and many locals would probably not afford to visit.

So in fact dual pricing is not discrimination it’s a way to use a discounted price for locals to make the price for tourists LOWER than it would have been with the same price for everyone, everyone is a winner."

And as you know I disagree with you.

We can go through the series of posts we did earlier again or just accept we both consider the other wrong.

I'm easy either way.

[ddavidovsky]

Those who still defend equal pricing are living in a Marxist utopia. Fact is, while people may be held to be equal in terms of their human rights, they are simply not equal in other ways, certainly not economic. National GDP is a fair indication that foreigners do actually have more disposable income.

Price discrimination, which in economics not just necessary but inevitable, should discriminate against the well-heeled rather than the poor. If everyone was charged the same, that would discriminate against those with least money. That's worse.

This is not a human rights issue, but an economic one. The question is really how much the differential should be for tourist sights. I say 50% extra for foreigners is fair until Thai GDP per capita is equivalent to that of their foreign tourists.

What about the Thais that are richer than me? And I don't mind to say there is few fair of them.

So if I rock up to the national park on my suzuki step motorcycle and some high so arrives in his shiny new Benz, I should have to pay more based on the colour of my skin?

Marxist utopia...peh! What's right is right. If I am expected to pay more on the basis that I am rich because of my skin colour then a Thai driving a Merc should also be charged more on the basis of the car they drive.

I could say the same but I still uphold the general principle. I don't whine about the principle, but I do complain when they take it too far and try to charge 4 to 10 times more than the Thai price. That's too much.

Charging people according to their tax bracket would be ideal, but is (currently) simply impracticable.

[pstbkk]

Today my girlfriend called to a good therapist near Ramkhamhaeng Airport Link Station in Bangkok. She wanted to book a massage for me because that guy knows how to fix my shoulder. There is a woman working with him and when she realized that it is appointment for farang she said "it is 700 for Thais but 1000 for farang" nothing to hide, that is their policy.

Is there any website/forum topic that people can share experience and report places like that so others can avoid them?

[Mook23]

http://www.2pricethailand.com/

[ardokano]

Those who still defend equal pricing are living in a Marxist utopia. Fact is, while people may be held to be equal in terms of their human rights, they are simply not equal in other ways, certainly not economic. National GDP is a fair indication that foreigners do actually have more disposable income.

Price discrimination, which in economics not just necessary but inevitable, should discriminate against the well-heeled rather than the poor. If everyone was charged the same, that would discriminate against those with least money. That's worse.

This is not a human rights issue, but an economic one. The question is really how much the differential should be for tourist sights. I say 50% extra for foreigners is fair until Thai GDP per capita is equivalent to that of their foreign tourists.

this you follow a perverted utopia Marxism type. equalize all. take from the rich to give to the poor.

I say 50% extra for foreigners is fair until Thai GDP per capita is equivalent to that of their foreign tourists.

Following your logic, I would lie on the couch watching TV and you give to me half of your income.

until a miracle happened, and our income has adjusted ...

Ok?

And please if ethnic( nationality ) discrimination its nothing to economic metter.

But i am not care about Thailand ask me up price.

If its happened in privat shop or another service.

I just ask for me its up price. so have any discount for my dog next time..

[ardokano]

Today my girlfriend called to a good therapist near Ramkhamhaeng Airport Link Station in Bangkok. She wanted to book a massage for me because that guy knows how to fix my shoulder. There is a woman working with him and when she realized that it is appointment for farang she said "it is 700 for Thais but 1000 for farang" nothing to hide, that is their policy.

Is there any website/forum topic that people can share experience and report places like that so others can avoid them?

You ask ,.. how much is for Foreigner/thai dog next time. its up price than for Thai people?

[SABloke]

The Bang Pa In palace, which is run by the Royal Bureau is the only place that I've seen them display admissions figures. 2 things that struck me were that firstly it was taking in piles of cash and that the income from foreign tourists (at the inflated price) was dwarfed by the Thai visitors. Made it seem a bit trivial to charge (5 times?) more and leave a bad taste in my mouth (at the time only the Royal Bureau would not accept proof of residence, but government attractions did...go figure).

My point is that the members pointing out the ''economic benefit'' need to supply some numbers otherwise its just speculative justification, because the times that I've been unforunate enough to visit a popular waterfall the Thais outnumbered the foreigners 100 - 1 (guesstimate

[Happy Grumpy]

Why wouldn't they do it? You're nothing but cash to them. Besides that, you are of no interest or concern to them.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Happy Grumpy

[mki8]

much as i have taken this as the norm here

Racism is Racism

Try doing something like this in UK or USA (i know we are not there)

The main problem is, its just too blatent, and not really thought through (lol) enough

It would be much easier to offer discount for this that and whatever to give thais discount, rather than just blatently overcharge foreigners.

Such discounts would mean thais get discount rates and most foreigners would not get discount and pay full price.

not sure if anyone made this point, but also many foreign asians do get away with local rates (i have seen this many times over the years)

The way it is now, it just plain racist, but racism is accepted in thailand as the norm,

see if you can get your gf or wife to tell you the word for racism in thai..........

[mki8]

one thought,

can you claim the VAT back at airport when you leave for the overpriced tickets you paid for ?

get you a little back at least

[Johnniey]

Whilst farang are often charged more than Thais, there are many things that work in our favour. I am let off by traffic police all the time, for example, especially with my little one in the car. I can get discount that Thais wouldn't have the nerve to ask for, and better service in shops. Bank workers go out of their way to help me. I don't lose face very easily, which enables me to get away with a lot more than my Thai brothers and sisters.

People remember me which is an advantage. Thai people are not all after money(anymore than foreigners) and the longer I live out of Bangkok/tourist areas, I realise this.

I hate to hear the farang saying, "they can't do this to me, do you know what would happen in United Farangland if they did this?". Quite simply, I have started a new life in a country, which will never accept me as one of them, even if I pass a degree in Thai, become a monk, or have Gen P's daughter as a "mia noi".

I have to chill out and adjust certain ideas and attitudes. I must remember that this is not my home country, and therefore has different ways of doing things. Christ, that is one of the reasons I love it here. I used to want them to keep doing the things I liked and stop doing the things I didn't like. What a shity attitude!

Realise what I can change and what I can't. Don't let the things that you can't get on top of you, they're not worth it. Once you have done this, weigh up the pros and cons of living in a new land and decide if it is for me or not. I have not been sentenced to live in Thailand, it is my choice.

Some things like double pricing are the Thai way an I sometimes think I should simply respect their decision - when I do this I usually see that they have a valid reason for doing something that thought 'racist' or unfair.

It's my fear of being take advantage of that I have to address. "can't have them Thais getting the better of ME, the almighty!

I know that if I want to become a Thai citizen I can, but when I weigh up all the pros and cons, I would rather keep my British passport.

[Johnniey]

When I played golf at the great Royal Melbourne Golf club I, as a foreigner had to pay 3000 baht more.

People in Florida get discount at Disneyworld.

Local discount happens everywhere.

My daughter going to a UK university has to pay more than a UK resident, even though she is a citizen. US unis charge foreigners more too.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Johnniey

[2fishin2]

When I played golf at the great Royal Melbourne Golf club I, as a foreigner had to pay 3000 baht more.

People in Florida get discount at Disneyworld.

Local discount happens everywhere.

My daughter going to a UK university has to pay more than a UK resident, even though she is a citizen. US unis charge foreigners more too.

Please dont try to make sense of this. Dont need any examples of how the price differences and procedures are the same the world over.

Many TV people here dont listen to fact. They listen to ASSumptions even in the face of fact. And to get them to admit they are incorrect, would be like pushing a rope up a hill....backwards. Aint never gonna happen.

[SABloke]

When I played golf at the great Royal Melbourne Golf club I, as a foreigner had to pay 3000 baht more.

People in Florida get discount at Disneyworld.

Local discount happens everywhere.

My daughter going to a UK university has to pay more than a UK resident, even though she is a citizen. US unis charge foreigners more too.

Please dont try to make sense of this. Dont need any examples of how the price differences and procedures are the same the world over.

Many TV people here dont listen to fact. They listen to ASSumptions even in the face of fact. And to get them to admit they are incorrect, would be like pushing a rope up a hill....backwards. Aint never gonna happen.

The price differences and procedures ARE the same the world over...they are DIFFERENT in Thailand though. Even the UK citizen has to pay more if they're not a resident in the UK. In Thailand, however, the government has categorically stated that even if you're a resident (permanent resident included) you are not allowed to receive a discount.

Get it now?

[Sawan Chan 7]

When I played golf at the great Royal Melbourne Golf club I, as a foreigner had to pay 3000 baht more.

People in Florida get discount at Disneyworld.

Local discount happens everywhere.

My daughter going to a UK university has to pay more than a UK resident, even though she is a citizen. US unis charge foreigners more too.

Please dont try to make sense of this. Dont need any examples of how the price differences and procedures are the same the world over.

Many TV people here dont listen to fact. They listen to ASSumptions even in the face of fact. And to get them to admit they are incorrect, would be like pushing a rope up a hill....backwards. Aint never gonna happen.

Agreed, dual pricing happens all over the world.

Many here are just bitter.

How many Thais go to UK, USA, OZ and don't bother to learn the language our supply for citizenship?

Foreigners here think they are special because the local hos like them.

Thais don't like us, they put up with us.

As for the news reporter, can't you think of a more original topic, and why isn't it the general or pub forums?

Some nepotism or something going on here.

[Sawan Chan 7]

When I played golf at the great Royal Melbourne Golf club I, as a foreigner had to pay 3000 baht more.

People in Florida get discount at Disneyworld.

Local discount happens everywhere.

My daughter going to a UK university has to pay more than a UK resident, even though she is a citizen. US unis charge foreigners more too.

Please dont try to make sense of this. Dont need any examples of how the price differences and procedures are the same the world over.

Many TV people here dont listen to fact. They listen to ASSumptions even in the face of fact. And to get them to admit they are incorrect, would be like pushing a rope up a hill....backwards. Aint never gonna happen.

The price differences and procedures ARE the same the world over...they are DIFFERENT in Thailand though. Even the UK citizen has to pay more if they're not a resident in the UK. In Thailand, however, the government has categorically stated that even if you're a resident (permanent resident included) you are not allowed to receive a discount.

Get it now?

Quite right too. If you want equality and citizens rights, guess what, you must become a citizen. Simple, the superior farang thinks they shouldn't have to jump through the hoops of citizenship like Thais have to in their countries.

[SABloke]

When I played golf at the great Royal Melbourne Golf club I, as a foreigner had to pay 3000 baht more.

People in Florida get discount at Disneyworld.

Local discount happens everywhere.

My daughter going to a UK university has to pay more than a UK resident, even though she is a citizen. US unis charge foreigners more too.

So you paid 100 AUD more than either members (who pay an annual premium) and/or residents. It sounds very dramatic to state 3000 Baht, but what are the resident green fees? 100, 150?? Now if the charged 10 times more say 1000 AUD on top, would you consider it fair?

[SABloke]

When I played golf at the great Royal Melbourne Golf club I, as a foreigner had to pay 3000 baht more.

People in Florida get discount at Disneyworld.

Local discount happens everywhere.

My daughter going to a UK university has to pay more than a UK resident, even though she is a citizen. US unis charge foreigners more too.

Please dont try to make sense of this. Dont need any examples of how the price differences and procedures are the same the world over.

Many TV people here dont listen to fact. They listen to ASSumptions even in the face of fact. And to get them to admit they are incorrect, would be like pushing a rope up a hill....backwards. Aint never gonna happen.

The price differences and procedures ARE the same the world over...they are DIFFERENT in Thailand though. Even the UK citizen has to pay more if they're not a resident in the UK. In Thailand, however, the government has categorically stated that even if you're a resident (permanent resident included) you are not allowed to receive a discount.

Get it now?

Quite right too. If you want equality and citizens rights, guess what, you must become a citizen. Simple, the superior farang thinks they shouldn't have to jump through the hoops of citizenship like Thais have to in their countries.

Well you don't have to be South African to enjoy our wonderful attractions: you just have to be an ''Adult'' or a ''Child''. I won't go into detail regarding your BS about ''hoops'' In order for me to stay with my daughter in Thailand I must earn 3 times more than the starting graduate salary in Thailand...to stay in the UK you basically need minimum wage