Don’t let your kids backpack in Koh Tao – the clear message from the CH4 documentary

[KamalaRider]

Available here:- <snip>

I don't think all the problems have done any harm to the Koh Tao image, in fact tragic as it may seem I think all this "bad" publicity will only enhance the appeal of the island for young backpackers.

These kids don't want to go to places like Phuket and Pattas that's full of boring old farts drowning in the sea or swimming pool or smashing their heads open by slipping in the shower in nightly drunken stupor or falling off balconies.

They are young kids and they want to have FUN FUN FUN (remember those days?)

The opening of the program shows all the beauty of Koh Tao with pristine clear waters white sandy beaches and wooden shacks perched on the hillside amongst lush green jungle, the sort of vision people dream about.

At night there are the never ending beach parties with loud disco music fire dances and of course the buckets of booze that they all share. A million miles from Brighton Beach.

Young kids are invincible (remember when you were a kid?) the fact that Koh Tao is an island and can only be reached by boat makes it a bit mysterious and as for the "Mafia" murders well it just adds to the thrill of it all.

And just to make it even more mysterious and exiting and THE place to go is their parents are advising against it.

Kids will be kids and this program is great publicity for the island.

Koh Tao will be on the bucket list of every red blooded kid on the planet.

I fear you're 100% correct in your assumption.

What I would do if I was a parent was to warn my daughters about the risk of getting raped, both violently or/and drugged on KT, there has been hundreds of your women who's been raped on that island.

Could even be thousands during the last 15-20 years.

If they would listen and stay away, the guys will too as they follow where the girls are.

[Bench499d]

One needs to remember that the media in the UK, especially C4, is controlled by the extreme left, so anything that they produce needs to be consumed with a very large pinch of salt.

If anything the media is controlled by the right, ie. the Government that's actually in power? C4 especially, is a public sector corporation.

[Nobb]

I also tell my family any friend in America never to visit Thailand because freedom of the people who commit the crime can be bought by rich parent who could make all evidence disappear because of the Thai record keeping system where very much evidence disappears magically. This is the reason Thailand will soon bottom out because of the lack to support the law and no one will come here soon!

[yogavnture]

wasnt ko tao where the thais kept prisoners long ago. maybethier spirits are causing bad luck? curse

[Nobb]

Whoever wrote this article isn't helping by making things up and omitting facts. For example, "One aspect that was not mentioned during the program was two other western women who had been mugged by four Thai men on motorbikes the evening before in the very same spot."

It was not mentioned because it isn't true at all. The murder was on the beach at a rocky outcrop- unless the men on motorbikes rode them into the sand it was definitely not the same place.

And the suicide? Completely ignores the suicide note written in French that addressed his relatives by name. I suppose the mafia has a crack team of polyglot handwriting forgers at their disposal.

Worst part of this case is the people cheering one side or the other like its a football match and completely ignoring evidence to the contrary.

Agree, a very poor documentary.

Such as "shown footage Wai Phyo was dressed in long jeans, a T-shirt and a long sleeved ‘winter’ top. Odd attire considering the temperature at that time, especially when the 15+ other people in the room were wearing light clothes and T-shirts."

Most construction workers in Thailand dress this way, many even wear beanies..... heck even normal Thai office workers wear jackets in the office

So most points in the documentary were beaten to death in the papers, they just made it more dramtatic by introducing things that are irrelevant or has already been proven but they refuse/did not care to point it out to keep viewers on the edge of their seat

Wai Phyo worked in a restaurant, not as a construction worker and his choice of cloths were ACTUALLY very strange, considering the heat, humidity and his previous choice of clothing.

A lot of what the documentary pointed out are correct but maybe a little bit filtered.

Nothing has been proven up until now, everything is kept under covers, outsiders still don't know the truth apart from everyone who's followed the killings and rapes of multiple westerners during the last couple of years, knows that Koh Tao ISN'T safe for anyone to visit. There's not a single case who's been solved on KT in years.

Best just to tell your friends and family to just stay away from Thailand. Now the land of a thousand guns and knifes!

[sapson]

If the program is just presenting evidence or facts that are already in the public domain, why have the Thais blocked it? especially as its in English not a language widely used or understood in Thailand.

Certainly the expat community here will just use a proxy to view it and already explained in this thread, as the content is not illegal, neither is viewing it from Thailand breaking any laws...or am I mistaken?

[Scouse Twoccer]

I think it's very important to remind all of the Thai computer laws regarding circumventing Thai web-blocking.

Using a proxy to circumvent Thai web-blocking is illegal under the current Thai computer censorship laws while in Thailand.

Don't get banged up as the Thai computer laws are in place and the Internet is being monitored.

Proxies are legal when used for privacy only, except when circumventing Thai web blocking, when used for fraud, and more.

The MICT minister has said in an interview in the Bangkok Post that he has not blocked these methods because "using proxies to access illegal sites are illegal, whereas using proxies to access legal sites is legal."

I think it's very important to remind all that what you are saying is nonsense (and you should be ignored) as confirmed by the very quote that you copied. The sites being referred to in this thread are not illegal; just because the government blocks a site doesn't make it illegal. Therefore it is not illegal to access them using proxies.

Th

[Yann55]

One needs to remember that the media in the UK, especially C4, is controlled by the extreme left, so anything that they produce needs to be consumed with a very large pinch of salt.

LOL, that's a hilarious comment. Any media controlled by the extreme right would, in your opinion, be certified kosher ? and let's not forget those owned by the extreme center, they're the worst.

[JLCrab]

My guess would be the reporters talked to many persons on Koh Tao who said that everybody knows who did but when the reporters asked them how they might substantiate who did it the persons interviewed just said EVERYBODY KNOWS and that was their substantiation.

[mgjackson69]

"Don't let your kids..." ???

If they are adults, how are you "letting" them do anything?

Whether Mom and Dad pay is a different deal...

[Yann55]

I also tell my family any friend in America never to visit Thailand because freedom of the people who commit the crime can be bought by rich parent who could make all evidence disappear because of the Thai record keeping system where very much evidence disappears magically. This is the reason Thailand will soon bottom out because of the lack to support the law and no one will come here soon!

Well you sure have a point. Rich people around the world are infinitely better armed when facing justice, guilty or not, and in some countries this inequality borders on the obscene.

When you predict that Thailand will soon 'bottom out' on the sole basis that they do not give proper support to foreigners who run into trouble, you are however making a big ethnocentric leap and adjusting reality to your wishes, because :

1/ Not every foreigner here runs into trouble, thanks God, so there are still lots of Westerners who go back home raving about what a great time they had in Thailand, including Koh Tao, and the photo of Songkran revelers is there to prove that we human beings have a very short memory span. It is shocking and disturbing to think that Hannah and David's murders will not have much impact on tourism, even in Koh Tao, but it's a fact.

2/ Even if Westerners suddenly decided to boycott Thailand altogether, keep in mind that there is this country called China, which has acquired immense purchasing power, and has now opened its doors, letting out millions of new tourists, a substantial portion of which visit Thailand, for better or worse. You only have to spend a couple of hours in Suwarnabumi or Don Muang airport to realize what they represent in terms of numbers. For the record :

- Total population of Europe + North America : 1.1 billion

- Total population of China : 1.4 billion

Need I add that the Chinese who visit Thailand have absolutely no idea about what happened in Koh Tao, and even if they did they would probably not give a rat's ass, because they would assume that it doesn't concern them in the least.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Yann55

[dick dasterdly]

My guess would be the reporters talked to many persons on Koh Tao who said that everybody knows who did but when the reporters asked them how they might substantiate who did it the persons interviewed just said EVERYBODY KNOWS and that was their substantiation.

Have you seen the documentary?

I haven't but am slightly disappointed at the way genuine investigative journalism seem to have died a death.

The programme had every right to point out the disproprtionate number of deaths on such a small island, but from what I've gathered from this topic they've dug little further.

[dick dasterdly]

We all know that the B2 weren't solely (or at all) responsible for these murders, but just like Christie Jones (?) where a murder was found but ignored - the same is likely to happen in these murders.

[Yann55]

My guess would be the reporters talked to many persons on Koh Tao who said that everybody knows who did but when the reporters asked them how they might substantiate who did it the persons interviewed just said EVERYBODY KNOWS and that was their substantiation.

Have you seen the documentary?

I haven't but am slightly disappointed at the way genuine investigative journalism seem to have died a death.

The programme had every right to point out the disproprtionate number of deaths on such a small island, but from what I've gathered from this topic they've dug little further.

Investigative journalism has indeed all but disappeared, for a number of reasons, the main one being (ironically) the massive explosion of 'information' and of the media in general.

In order to be effective, investigative journalism requires three essential factors :

1/ A good journalist, ie someone with experience, balls, ethics, a quick brain and a deep knowledge of the terrain. Not many of those around any more, mainly because of the 2 other points.

2/ Time. Exploring a subject thoroughly, even if you are a genius, can't be done in a matter of hours or even days. However this factor has been reduced to almost nothing, because the hysterical tempo of information nowadays simply doesn't allow it any more.

3/ Money. When there were few media, say under a hundred major newspapers and TV channels, these media could afford to pay the right amount to competent journalists (see point 1), whose competence and dedication were of course not cheap. Now the system has changed radically, and one major actor has appeared : a mere handful of 'news agencies' (United Press, Associated Press, Reuters, Agence France Presse, know as the Big Four) now each have a small team of correspondents in every country around the world, and these teams are there to gather information, which is then bought by media and 'redigested' into articles. This change of system has of course induced a massive alteration in the quality of information itself, of course, especially when it's supposed to be more 'investigative'.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Yann55

[joebrown]

I doubt that the hard hitting investigative team would want to waste time trying to obtain Nok Air flight records, when they know that the chances of them ever being revealed are zilch.

If a hard-hitting investigative team wants to prove that someone, who claims he was not there at the time and place of the crime, actually was there at the time and place of the crime and quite likely directly involved in the crime itself but, after preparing an hour long documentary, cannot in any way show that the person who claims he was not there actually was there, then they must not be very hard-hitting, eh?

I'd be careful JC. Any more talk like that and you'll start to go round in circles and probably disappear up your own sphincter. BTW, was the 'someone' you are talking about actually referred to directly by the CH 4 team in the video? It could be that they didn't want to attract a defamation law suit from any injured parties.

[menzies233]

I agree, it wasn't a very well put together documentary at all. The Brit family that claimed that their son was a possible murder victim.....on what grounds? Could he not have just been a bit drunk and decided to go for a dip? The water was only 50 feet away according to the doco, and people have been known to do stupid things after drinking, believe me I know!

The documentary poses more questions than answers for me after watching it. The telephone found at the Burmese place from David needed more information, it would also have been nice to have had some input from the British police that came over and got a ringside seat. (That will probably never happen)

I would be interested to see what the death toll due to drunken accidents is for Thai people on Koh Tao, as I can see the point that the mayor made about a lot of drunken foreigners cannot even remember how they got hurt.

Looking at some of these full moon parties, it is surprising there are not more deaths from their stupid hedonistic behaviour, this younger generation seem to think they can just go anywhere and behave any way they like, I remember when I was late teens and early twenties venturing to places like Southern Spain and North Africa, you had to keep your wits about you or you would probably get robbed or worse still, a rather dark sausage introduced to your back passage if you went poncing around on the beaches late at night.

Maybe that is what the youth of today need, as Corporal Jones used to say "They don't like it up 'em"

Seriously though, I am less convinced of the innocence of these two Burmese than I was 6 months ago.

[sambum]

Whoever wrote this article isn't helping by making things up and omitting facts. For example, "One aspect that was not mentioned during the program was two other western women who had been mugged by four Thai men on motorbikes the evening before in the very same spot."

It was not mentioned because it isn't true at all. The murder was on the beach at a rocky outcrop- unless the men on motorbikes rode them into the sand it was definitely not the same place.

And the suicide? Completely ignores the suicide note written in French that addressed his relatives by name. I suppose the mafia has a crack team of polyglot handwriting forgers at their disposal.

Worst part of this case is the people cheering one side or the other like its a football match and completely ignoring evidence to the contrary.

Agree, a very poor documentary.

Such as "shown footage Wai Phyo was dressed in long jeans, a T-shirt and a long sleeved ‘winter’ top. Odd attire considering the temperature at that time, especially when the 15+ other people in the room were wearing light clothes and T-shirts."

Most construction workers in Thailand dress this way, many even wear beanies..... heck even normal Thai office workers wear jackets in the office

So most points in the documentary were beaten to death in the papers, they just made it more dramtatic by introducing things that are irrelevant or has already been proven but they refuse/did not care to point it out to keep viewers on the edge of their seat

Wai Phyo worked in a restaurant, not as a construction worker and his choice of cloths were ACTUALLY very strange, considering the heat, humidity and his previous choice of clothing.

A lot of what the documentary pointed out are correct but maybe a little bit filtered.

Nothing has been proven up until now, everything is kept under covers, outsiders still don't know the truth apart from everyone who's followed the killings and rapes of multiple westerners during the last couple of years, knows that Koh Tao ISN'T safe for anyone to visit. There's not a single case who's been solved on KT in years.

Apparently, according to a senior police officer at the time, the lack of police on Koh Tao necessitated the "help" of locals to secure contaminate the crime scene in the "Hannah and David" case. But this, and many other glaring inconsistencies in the investigation didn't matter one hoot at the end of the day. As soon as the B2 were arrested, they were guilty in the eyes of the police, and any other verdict would have meant huge loss of face for the RTP and the prosecution. The underlying theme now seems to be "OK, we made a few mistakes along the way, but in the end we got the right perpetrators of the crime - after all, they've been found guilty in a Court of Law!"

Edited April 22, 2016 by sambum

[SiSePuede419]

"Shopping, Partying, and Sex"

Yeah, everyone is coming to Thailand to buy those frogs that you rub a stick on their backs.

Those are cool, 555

[HLover]

Horrifying, not only these young people are partying instead of living their lives by what the 'news' tells them but the DJ in the front row has a nipple exposed and no arrest or 100 baht fine was issued! Total anarchy on Koh Tao apparently.

Well this is the KohTao photo from last Sunday 17 APR 2016 -- maybe now with this 'clear message' the kids will all be gone by this next Sunday

[someonelovesyou]

After reading the posts in this content, it appears some may be circumventing Thai web-blocking with the use of proxy services.

I think it's very important to remind all of the Thai computer laws regarding circumventing Thai web-blocking.

Using a proxy to circumvent Thai web-blocking is illegal under the current Thai computer censorship laws while in Thailand.

Don't get banged up as the Thai computer laws are in place and the Internet is being monitored.

Proxies are legal when used for privacy only, except when circumventing Thai web blocking; when used for fraud and more.

Also, if you have a Thai retirement visa, it's in violation of your retirement visa laws to work in Thailand unless you have a work visa. That includes generating a cash flow

by computer while in Thailand if you are avoiding paying Thai tax. This even includes doing charity work! Many disagree, but I suspect they have not researched the Thai law

and consulted with a competent, licensed, Thai lawyer. I suspect many are using proxy services for the above.

Laws and policies change frequently, so if any of the above is incorrect, please let me know. However, I confirmed the above today as best as I could.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Thailand

Circumvention software (copied from the above link)

Software applications for circumventing web-blocking are readily available. Tor is in use through software including XeroBank Browser (formerly Torpark) and Vidalia, and a number of other proxied solutions including Proxify, Six-Four, phproxy are also used. Freenet is another popular solution. Available for free download from the Internet, these packages are also published on disk by FACT. The MICT minister has said in an interview in the Bangkok Post that he has not blocked these methods because "using proxies to access illegal sites are illegal, whereas using proxies to access legal sites is legal."

There is no Thai law stating that it is illegal. Just a company in UK which wants to make it harder for people outside the country to access content for free. And the reason he said that is because it sounds better than "because it's not possible"

[JLCrab]

I doubt that the hard hitting investigative team would want to waste time trying to obtain Nok Air flight records, when they know that the chances of them ever being revealed are zilch.

If a hard-hitting investigative team wants to prove that someone, who claims he was not there at the time and place of the crime, actually was there at the time and place of the crime and quite likely directly involved in the crime itself but, after preparing an hour long documentary, cannot in any way show that the person who claims he was not there actually was there, then they must not be very hard-hitting, eh?

I'd be careful JC. Any more talk like that and you'll start to go round in circles and probably disappear up your own sphincter. BTW, was the 'someone' you are talking about actually referred to directly by the CH 4 team in the video? It could be that they didn't want to attract a defamation law suit from any injured parties.

The Samui Times summary of the documentary said that the kid was not mentioned even though he " has been the focus of online investigations". If they had any tangible evidence of anyone's involvement other than the two Burmese convicted they could have put that in the video and taken their chances.

BTW when things get too ridiculous, I just pretend that I'm writing for the Marx Brothers and how they would make sense of it.

Edited April 22, 2016 by JLCrab

[Jonmarleesco]

'One aspect that was not mentioned during the program was two other western women who had been mugged by four Thai men on motorbikes the evening before in the very same spot.' Thai, so obviously couldn't have been involved in two murders, a day later, at the same spot ... could they?

'Nomsod’s father Head man Worapan Tuwichian offered 700,000 baht to anybody who could prove his family was involved in the murders early on in the investigation.' Most would offer money for a conviction. Presumably, he offered the same amount to the RTP for them not to prove that any member of his family was involved?

'... Eight Region Police Command Commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen ... at the very start of the investigation identified the suspect as Montriwat Tuwichian and said evidence which the police collected and examined proved he was involved ...' So the investigation that followed wasn't just incompetent; it was tainted from the start.

'... Major General of the Royal Thai police Suwat Jangvodsuk ... said that the DNA tests were done to international standards but could not recall what those standards were ...' I never fail to be impressed by the sort of things the RTP will admit to ... even though he probably doesn't see it that way.

'Hardly encouraging if Koh Tao wish to repair their reputation for shoddy police investigations and instil any kind of confidence in the parents of young travellers.' It's more the RTP that needs to address its reputation.

'... as the Mayor of Koh Tao pointed out, foreigners forget this is not their country, they do whatever they like, and this often causes their deaths, it’s all about fate ...' So, Thais object to someone or something and decide murder is justified - so long as the numbers favour them, of course. But then two foreigners, not Thais, have been found guilty. Does the mayor know something that no one else does? Because, talking of deaths, this programme might be the catalyst heralding the death knoll of Koh Tao's tourist industry, if not Thailand's.

[Jonmarleesco]

There's a clip of three young brit girls early in it, where they say they knew hannah was killed in thailandbut they didn't know it was on the island and beach they were staying on.

These millennials!

So?

The rest of the world doesn't follow Thai crime news as closely as bored expats on Thaivisa do. Big deal.

They do if their nationals have been victims, especially in large numbers.

[Jonmarleesco]

One needs to remember that the media in the UK, especially C4, is controlled by the extreme left, so anything that they produce needs to be consumed with a very large pinch of salt.

Don't be naive. Any U.K. media control is currently, for the most part, right wing; and that control isn't courtesy of political extremists, it's courtesy of megalomaniac owners. .

[sgtsabai]

I have a very good friend that lived on death island for some time. He knew one of B2 who used to deliver food to his house. He says, ok yea hearsay, that he had anything to do with the deaths. He knew who not to cross and stayed out of their way. He told me this isn't the first, nor will it be the last murder. Yes like everybody else, "we all know who did it". He and his farang girlfriend (why in the hell would anybody have a farang gf?) have left the country for a place far, far away. BTW. I was a certified/commissioned law enforcement officer in the states and had I screwed this case the way it was screwed I would have never worked again. In a real country, with real laws, and a real justice system (yea, the US isn't all that great) this case would have never gone to trial, not even if the B2 were black.

[Nicolas32]

Just watching it now http://www.channel4.com/programmes/murder-in-paradise/on-demand/62952-001 but you will need a uk proxy to see it ..

I think it's very important to remind all of the Thai computer laws regarding circumventing Thai web-blocking.

Using a proxy to circumvent Thai web-blocking is illegal under the current Thai computer censorship laws while in Thailand.

Don't get banged up as the Thai computer laws are in place and the Internet is being monitored.

Proxies are legal when used for privacy only, except when circumventing Thai web blocking, when used for fraud, and more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Thailand

Circumvention software (copied from the above link)

Software applications for circumventing web-blocking are readily available. Tor is in use through software including XeroBank Browser (formerly Torpark) and Vidalia, and a number of other proxied solutions including Proxify, Six-Four, phproxy are also used. Freenet is another popular solution. Available for free download from the Internet, these packages are also published on disk by FACT. The MICT minister has said in an interview in the Bangkok Post that he has not blocked these methods because "using proxies to access illegal sites are illegal, whereas using proxies to access legal sites is legal."

Don't get your knickers in a knot. He's not recommending using a proxy to circumvent Thai web-blocking - but just to defeat Channel 4's geoblocking that would otherwise prevent viewers outside the UK watching the stream.

Thanks also am not in Thailand so am fine ?

Am not in Thailand so am fine

[sweatalot]

One needs to remember that the media in the UK, especially C4, is controlled by the extreme left, so anything that they produce needs to be consumed with a very large pinch of salt.

everything that is published by Thai media and Thai police regarding Koh Tao needs to be consumed with a much larger pinch of salt

[Nicolas32]

One needs to remember that the media in the UK, especially C4, is controlled by the extreme left, so anything that they produce needs to be consumed with a very large pinch of salt.

everything that is published by Thai media and Thai police regarding Koh Tao needs to be consumed with a much larger pinch of salt

99 percent of the news is like that not just the Koh Tao case ,,

[HLover]

I have a very good friend that lived on death island for some time. He knew one of B2 who used to deliver food to his house. He says, ok yea hearsay, that he had anything to do with the deaths. He knew who not to cross and stayed out of their way. He told me this isn't the first, nor will it be the last murder. Yes like everybody else, "we all know who did it". He and his farang girlfriend (why in the hell would anybody have a farang gf?) have left the country for a place far, far away. BTW. I was a certified/commissioned law enforcement officer in the states and had I screwed this case the way it was screwed I would have never worked again. In a real country, with real laws, and a real justice system (yea, the US isn't all that great) this case would have never gone to trial, not even if the B2 were black.

Orenthal got away with murder in your 'real' country- best system money can buy but if it's done here it is ridiculed as a sham system. Ironic.

[wvavin]

The UK should ban all their citizens traveling to Thailand otherwise these idiots would not feel the financial heat!