Don’t let your kids backpack in Koh Tao – the clear message from the CH4 documentary

[Moonsterk]

I agree, don't come to Thailand. But....First and foremost, the country should examine the reasons people come to Thailand, Shopping, Partying, and Sex, not in any particular order. Other reasons have faded in these times of selfies and capitalism which has run rampant in Thailand, which includes all of our nasty habits. If anything, it's a case study of what happens when warped economics and self gratification runs amok.

The reason I will guess that many if not most as in the photo above would choose to go to Koh Tao is that they had friends who had been there and told them what a great time they had.

...and that may very well include persons who told others about having a great time on Koh Tao who visited Koh Tao after SEP 2014.

Even Luke Miller's pals still have their Koh Tao pics up on their FB pages, despite having sworn a concerted effort at a boycott.

When thousands and thousands of kids converge on a small island, and party their nuts off with alcohol and/ or lots of other drugs, there's gonna be deaths, the mayor has a very valid point..

[Khun Han]

My current location is with the other dinosaurs not these party animals --

Nice photo. But your reply didn't answer my question.

[rockingrobin]

Drunk, having sex on a beach in early hours = trouble.

No matter what country.

None of David's DNA on Hannah. Do your homework before posting shi*e

You are aware Hannah's body was at least partially submerged in water as evidenced by her lower left calf and half her foot are buried in perfectly smooth sand ? ( which preempts that " large footprint" nonsense.) Such a submersion might have contributed to lack of David's DNA or other physical evidence. I remember something about a condom- empty of ejaculate, being found nearby..

Perhaps the couple had just started their tryst, and were reclining when two short Myanmar lads decided to whack David on the head.. using a cloth or item of clothing to hold the hoe. I never understood the buzz about how their size, or lack of their DNA on the hoe handle was supposed to be a defense. Criminals have been using cloth to hold weapons for some time now- ever since fingerprinting was discovered. And a long handled hoe, if David were standing, would be an adequate height equalizer.

Maybe they really did not mean to kill David, but having done so, felt they must also do away with Hannah?

You are adding pieces in , used a cloth to hold the hoe is total fabrication, it was not in the confession , re-enactment or prosecution.

[rockingrobin]

Drunk, having sex on a beach in early hours = trouble.

No matter what country.

None of David's DNA on Hannah. Do your homework before posting shi*e

You are aware Hannah's body was at least partially submerged in water as evidenced by her lower left calf and half her foot are buried in perfectly smooth sand ? ( which preempts that " large footprint" nonsense.) Such a submersion might have contributed to lack of David's DNA or other physical evidence. I remember something about a condom- empty of ejaculate, being found nearby..

Perhaps the couple had just started their tryst, and were reclining when two short Myanmar lads decided to whack David on the head.. using a cloth or item of clothing to hold the hoe. I never understood the buzz about how their size, or lack of their DNA on the hoe handle was supposed to be a defense. Criminals have been using cloth to hold weapons for some time now- ever since fingerprinting was discovered. And a long handled hoe, if David were standing, would be an adequate height equalizer.

Maybe they really did not mean to kill David, but having done so, felt they must also do away with Hannah?

[/quote

As for the footprint in the sand ,you should direct the comments to the RTP, after all it is them measuring and photographing peoples feet

[rockingrobin]

frank83628, on 24 Apr 2016 - 06:10, said:

what are the differences between the 2 versions? i have seen the asian 1 and although i was expecting amazing revelations as hinted at by some TV posters here i found it was nothing more than previous news that everyone knew edited together.

they briefly highlight 6 young deaths as 'mysterious' but fail to give any evidence and omit certain evidence for at least 2 that would remove them from that category.

did the family of nick pearson make any reports about their suspicions to the UK police or media or anyone prior, or did they only do this after the hannah & david case?. I'm sure parents wouldn't want to think of a child dying of their own drunken stupidity, but is it not at all possible he might have after being put bed early on NYE for being 'too drunk to walk'?

for those here that would like to link his death to AC bar.. the place where he was staying and also died is at completely opposite ends of the beach, by the other end i mean, you couldn't get any further!, in fact its past the beach and up into the the hill, you would have to walk the entire length of sairee beach past every other bar in sairee on before you would arrive there.

since all the 'bad' press about KT it has been even busier that previous years, i would add that i've seen a lot more older couples and families since all this happened, so either people don't read the news or it didnt affect them. KT is still in the top 4 of holiday islands to visit.....bad luck for those of you who are so keen to see KT disappear!

Nick Pearson's parents reported their suspicious to the UK police and media before the Witheridge/Miller murders. What wasn't mentioned in the documentary is that Nick's parents were warned to stop asking questions and get off the island for their own good by the Koh Tao RTP. On the night that he died, he and his parents had spent the evening in Chopper's bar.

As for the differences between the 2 versions, well the format is slightly different, there are additional interviews in the U.K. version and some interviews in the Asian version have been left out. Christina Annesley's father was an additional interviewee in the U.K. version. I would need to watch both versions again back to back before I could comment further.

Wasn't he so drunk he had to be helped into bed? Wasn't one of the statements made by his mother supporting the alleged murder scenario, " Well.... he wouldn't go for a walk.."? Isn't it possible the scrapes and bruises were caused by falling amongst the large rocks that are along the beach? Isn't it possible, as with the Luke Miller case, family and friends would rather believe a way out in left field theory, than their loved one's own intoxication brought on his own demise?

incorrect again

[Moonsterk]

frank83628, on 24 Apr 2016 - 06:10, said:

what are the differences between the 2 versions? i have seen the asian 1 and although i was expecting amazing revelations as hinted at by some TV posters here i found it was nothing more than previous news that everyone knew edited together.

they briefly highlight 6 young deaths as 'mysterious' but fail to give any evidence and omit certain evidence for at least 2 that would remove them from that category.

did the family of nick pearson make any reports about their suspicions to the UK police or media or anyone prior, or did they only do this after the hannah & david case?. I'm sure parents wouldn't want to think of a child dying of their own drunken stupidity, but is it not at all possible he might have after being put bed early on NYE for being 'too drunk to walk'?

for those here that would like to link his death to AC bar.. the place where he was staying and also died is at completely opposite ends of the beach, by the other end i mean, you couldn't get any further!, in fact its past the beach and up into the the hill, you would have to walk the entire length of sairee beach past every other bar in sairee on before you would arrive there.

since all the 'bad' press about KT it has been even busier that previous years, i would add that i've seen a lot more older couples and families since all this happened, so either people don't read the news or it didnt affect them. KT is still in the top 4 of holiday islands to visit.....bad luck for those of you who are so keen to see KT disappear!

Nick Pearson's parents reported their suspicious to the UK police and media before the Witheridge/Miller murders. What wasn't mentioned in the documentary is that Nick's parents were warned to stop asking questions and get off the island for their own good by the Koh Tao RTP. On the night that he died, he and his parents had spent the evening in Chopper's bar.

As for the differences between the 2 versions, well the format is slightly different, there are additional interviews in the U.K. version and some interviews in the Asian version have been left out. Christina Annesley's father was an additional interviewee in the U.K. version. I would need to watch both versions again back to back before I could comment further.

Wasn't he so drunk he had to be helped into bed? Wasn't one of the statements made by his mother supporting the alleged murder scenario, " Well.... he wouldn't go for a walk.."? Isn't it possible the scrapes and bruises were caused by falling amongst the large rocks that are along the beach? Isn't it possible, as with the Luke Miller case, family and friends would rather believe a way out in left field theory, than their loved one's own intoxication brought on his own demise?

incorrect again

Please get the fingers going and post at least a vague rebuttal to this; Pearson was smashed, and probably woke up looking for some water as the very drunk tend to do. It's just like Luke Miller where families and friends are exposed to all the BS by people who handle them and then set into concrete by hysteria on all the pages. They choose to believe the worse because it is preferable to a painful truth- Nick and Luke died because of their foolish choice to become exceedingly intoxicated.

[Moonsterk]

BTW Per Andy Hall's Twitter account 18 APR 2016:

-- Today Koh Samui Court approved Koh Tao murder case defence team request 4 extension of time finalise/submit case appeal until 23rd May 2016

3 retweets6 likes

You think they've finally realized the judges aren't going to be swayed by social media BS and just maybe their clients are guilty?

[rockingrobin]

Moonsterk

with regards Nick Pearson , you clearly are not in possesion of all the facts , again I re-iterate your assertions are incorrect

[Moonsterk]

Moonsterk

with regards Nick Pearson , you clearly are not in possesion of all the facts , again I re-iterate your assertions are incorrect

And you are relying on hearsay and a Mother's grief- her disbelief, her attempt to lay blame elsewhere and presenting such as facts.

What facts don't I know? Please be specific?

[rockingrobin]

Moonsterk

with regards Nick Pearson , you clearly are not in possesion of all the facts , again I re-iterate your assertions are incorrect

And you are relying on hearsay and a Mother's grief- her disbelief, her attempt to lay blame elsewhere and presenting such as facts.

What facts don't I know? Please be specific?

Again Incorrect

I am not relying on hearsay , the issues you dont know are many as you fact devoid emotional outbursts demonstrate.

[frank83628]

http://www.samuitimes.com/koh-tao-named-asias-no-1-island/

[rockingrobin]

http://www.samuitimes.com/koh-tao-named-asias-no-1-island/

Trip Advisor differs

https://www.tripadvisor.com/TravelersChoice-Islands

[007cableguy]

Why is anyone bothering to rely to Christie's one sided views?, Hits feeding her flood the threads with bs!

[chainarong]

Although late into this subject here , circumstantial evidence by the police wouldn't be admissible in any decent court, they say that the two Burmese boys become excited when they seen the two together, what crap, how do they know this, were they there, as usual there are just too many loose ends from the police, they are not known as professionals in forensics, and to have a senior officer say at a press stop the DNA indicates that it wasn't an Asian defies logic at the Burmese boys arrests the following week . Fine reporting on this national problem and shows Thailand is certainly getting a reputation for all the wrong reasons

[Moonsterk]

Although late into this subject here , circumstantial evidence by the police wouldn't be admissible in any decent court, they say that the two Burmese boys become excited when they seen the two together, what crap, how do they know this, were they there, as usual there are just too many loose ends from the police, they are not known as professionals in forensics, and to have a senior officer say at a press stop the DNA indicates that it wasn't an Asian defies logic at the Burmese boys arrests the following week . Fine reporting on this national problem and shows Thailand is certainly getting a reputation for all the wrong reasons

Police and subsequently prosecution submitted the scenario that two young men, drinking very late at night decided to have a go at a woman they saw go by and the accused admitted as much.

I think that part about them admitting it is certainly admissible - please clarify why it would not be and how is it circumstantial?

Which part of it is unbelievable?

I never saw anything about DNA not being Asian, In fact quite the opposite. They knew from crime scene samples it was two Asians. Samples were sent to Singapore as the Thai police lab was too busy. US FBI had offered their services- politely declined

I submit you made that up or read it somewhere where somebody else made it up and now it's an infant rumour being nurtured into an adult "fact" in the FB nursery of lies.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Moonsterk

[Moonsterk]

Moonsterk

with regards Nick Pearson , you clearly are not in possesion of all the facts , again I re-iterate your assertions are incorrect

And you are relying on hearsay and a Mother's grief- her disbelief, her attempt to lay blame elsewhere and presenting such as facts.

What facts don't I know? Please be specific?

Again Incorrect

I am not relying on hearsay , the issues you dont know are many as you fact devoid emotional outbursts demonstrate.

Your post makes no sense but the implication is clear you have no argument so instead attempt to discredit me.

I'm using logic, known facts and reason, You're using this;

as you fact devoid emotional outbursts demonstrate.

Again, please what issues ( noting it was "facts" before) about Pearson do I not know that will prove it was not

a drunk guy had an accident.

[Moonsterk]

Moonsterk

with regards Nick Pearson , you clearly are not in possesion of all the facts , again I re-iterate your assertions are incorrect

What facts, please be specific.

[Moonsterk]

Drunk, having sex on a beach in early hours = trouble.

No matter what country.

None of David's DNA on Hannah. Do your homework before posting shi*e

You are aware Hannah's body was at least partially submerged in water as evidenced by her lower left calf and half her foot are buried in perfectly smooth sand ? ( which preempts that " large footprint" nonsense.) Such a submersion might have contributed to lack of David's DNA or other physical evidence. I remember something about a condom- empty of ejaculate, being found nearby..

Perhaps the couple had just started their tryst, and were reclining when two short Myanmar lads decided to whack David on the head.. using a cloth or item of clothing to hold the hoe. I never understood the buzz about how their size, or lack of their DNA on the hoe handle was supposed to be a defense. Criminals have been using cloth to hold weapons for some time now- ever since fingerprinting was discovered. And a long handled hoe, if David were standing, would be an adequate height equalizer.

Maybe they really did not mean to kill David, but having done so, felt they must also do away with Hannah?

You are adding pieces in , used a cloth to hold the hoe is total fabrication, it was not in the confession , re-enactment or prosecution.

And why would it need to be?

It simply explains why fingerprints or DNA of Zaw and Wai was not on the handle... And defense realised, correctly- it was no defense, and prosecutors realised it was not of importance because criminals often use cloth, or gloves or other methods to mask fingerprints and DNA and that's why no one used the hoe handle in arguments. Fairly basic.

The blade of the hoe was established as the instrument that inflicted Hannah's and David's wounds, blood was Hannah's and David's wounds matched.

So from this I would say, IMO after David was gotten out of the way, the hoe got washed in water- either by tide, or on purpose but was then used to kill Hannah, later- presumably after the rape, or simply to bash her face in when she was already dead... which is really of interest, that specific act- so violent, so.... out of place so.....it doesn't fit. What if was much later and by another party ?

Edited April 26, 2016 by Moonsterk

[rockingrobin]

Although late into this subject here , circumstantial evidence by the police wouldn't be admissible in any decent court, they say that the two Burmese boys become excited when they seen the two together, what crap, how do they know this, were they there, as usual there are just too many loose ends from the police, they are not known as professionals in forensics, and to have a senior officer say at a press stop the DNA indicates that it wasn't an Asian defies logic at the Burmese boys arrests the following week . Fine reporting on this national problem and shows Thailand is certainly getting a reputation for all the wrong reasons

Police and subsequently prosecution submitted the scenario that two young men, drinking very late at night decided to have a go at a woman they saw go by and the accused admitted as much.

I think that part about them admitting it is certainly admissible - please clarify why it would not be and how is it circumstantial?

Which part of it is unbelievable?

I never saw anything about DNA not being Asian, In fact quite the opposite. They knew from crime scene samples it was two Asians. Samples were sent to Singapore as the Thai police lab was too busy. US FBI had offered their services- politely declined

I submit you made that up or read it somewhere where somebody else made it up and now it's an infant rumour being nurtured into an adult "fact" in the FB nursery of lies.

Sorry again Moonstetk but uou are showig a lack of knowledge of this case

The dna went to singapore, on what date was this and when was the announcement of dna was asian

Secondly in court , when asked the RTP did not know if the dna was sent to singapore

[rockingrobin]

Drunk, having sex on a beach in early hours = trouble.

No matter what country.

None of David's DNA on Hannah. Do your homework before posting shi*e

You are aware Hannah's body was at least partially submerged in water as evidenced by her lower left calf and half her foot are buried in perfectly smooth sand ? ( which preempts that " large footprint" nonsense.) Such a submersion might have contributed to lack of David's DNA or other physical evidence. I remember something about a condom- empty of ejaculate, being found nearby..
Perhaps the couple had just started their tryst, and were reclining when two short Myanmar lads decided to whack David on the head.. using a cloth or item of clothing to hold the hoe. I never understood the buzz about how their size, or lack of their DNA on the hoe handle was supposed to be a defense. Criminals have been using cloth to hold weapons for some time now- ever since fingerprinting was discovered. And a long handled hoe, if David were standing, would be an adequate height equalizer.

Maybe they really did not mean to kill David, but having done so, felt they must also do away with Hannah?

You are adding pieces in , used a cloth to hold the hoe is total fabrication, it was not in the confession , re-enactment or prosecution.

And why would it need to be?
It simply explains why fingerprints or DNA of Zaw and Wai was not on the handle... And defense realised, correctly- it was no defense, and prosecutors realised it was not of importance because criminals often use cloth, or gloves or other methods to mask fingerprints and DNA and that's why no one used the hoe handle in arguments. Fairly basic.

The blade of the hoe was established as the instrument that inflicted Hannah's and David's wounds, blood was Hannah's and David's wounds matched.

So from this I would say, IMO after David was gotten out of the way, the hoe got washed in water- either by tide, or on purpose but was then used to kill Hannah, later- presumably after the rape, or simply to bash her face in when she was already dead... which is really of interest, that specific act- so violent, so.... out of place so.....it doesn't fit. What if was much later and by another party ?

Moonsterk
you are introducing elements in an attempt to explain the missing dna, yet this is not in the confession , re-enactment, or prosecution.Whilst you atecorrect theuse of a cloth would explain none of the B2 dna on the hoe, but subsequently not Hannahs or Davids dna on the handle
With equal wieght it could be said the B2 did not handle the hoe and that would explain the non existence of the B2 dna

IMO I think god took pity on the B2 and cleaned the hoe for them

[sidboy]

Drunk, having sex on a beach in early hours = trouble.

No matter what country.

None of David's DNA on Hannah. Do your homework before posting shi*e

You are aware Hannah's body was at least partially submerged in water as evidenced by her lower left calf and half her foot are buried in perfectly smooth sand ? ( which preempts that " large footprint" nonsense.) Such a submersion might have contributed to lack of David's DNA or other physical evidence. I remember something about a condom- empty of ejaculate, being found nearby..

Perhaps the couple had just started their tryst, and were reclining when two short Myanmar lads decided to whack David on the head.. using a cloth or item of clothing to hold the hoe. I never understood the buzz about how their size, or lack of their DNA on the hoe handle was supposed to be a defense. Criminals have been using cloth to hold weapons for some time now- ever since fingerprinting was discovered. And a long handled hoe, if David were standing, would be an adequate height equalizer.

Maybe they really did not mean to kill David, but having done so, felt they must also do away with Hannah?

None of David's blood on hoe.

[Nicolas32]

DNA investigation in murder case of UK backpackers ‘incompetent’

Police in Thailand may be reported to an international regulator over the investigation of two Burmese men convicted of murdering British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller.

International legal and DNA forensic scientists have advised the defence team of the two Burmese, who were sentenced to death, to make a formal complaint and demand a retrial.

The bodies of Ms Witheridge, 23, and Mr Miller, 24, were found on the island of Koh Tao in September 2014.

The experts say at best the DNA investigation by the Thai Police Forensics Laboratory was incompetent with no chain of evidence or proper disclosure to the defence. The worst scenario is Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo were framed.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/dna-investigation-in-murder-case-of-uk-backpackers-incompetent-a3233786.html

Edited April 26, 2016 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy.

[sambum]

DNA investigation in murder case of UK backpackers ‘incompetent’

Police in Thailand may be reported to an international regulator over the investigation of two Burmese men convicted of murdering British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller.

International legal and DNA forensic scientists have advised the defence team of the two Burmese, who were sentenced to death, to make a formal complaint and demand a retrial.

The bodies of Ms Witheridge, 23, and Mr Miller, 24, were found on the island of Koh Tao in September 2014.

The experts say at best the DNA investigation by the Thai Police Forensics Laboratory was incompetent with no chain of evidence or proper disclosure to the defence. The worst scenario is Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo were framed.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/dna-investigation-in-murder-case-of-uk-backpackers-incompetent-a3233786.html

"International legal and DNA forensic scientists" " The team" "The experts"

Any names or places of employment to go with that?

Edited April 26, 2016 by metisdead

[Holy Cinema]

None of David's DNA on Hannah. Do your homework before posting shi*e

You are aware Hannah's body was at least partially submerged in water as evidenced by her lower left calf and half her foot are buried in perfectly smooth sand ? ( which preempts that " large footprint" nonsense.) Such a submersion might have contributed to lack of David's DNA or other physical evidence. I remember something about a condom- empty of ejaculate, being found nearby..

Perhaps the couple had just started their tryst, and were reclining when two short Myanmar lads decided to whack David on the head.. using a cloth or item of clothing to hold the hoe. I never understood the buzz about how their size, or lack of their DNA on the hoe handle was supposed to be a defense. Criminals have been using cloth to hold weapons for some time now- ever since fingerprinting was discovered. And a long handled hoe, if David were standing, would be an adequate height equalizer.

Maybe they really did not mean to kill David, but having done so, felt they must also do away with Hannah?

You are adding pieces in , used a cloth to hold the hoe is total fabrication, it was not in the confession , re-enactment or prosecution.

And why would it need to be?

It simply explains why fingerprints or DNA of Zaw and Wai was not on the handle... And defense realised, correctly- it was no defense, and prosecutors realised it was not of importance because criminals often use cloth, or gloves or other methods to mask fingerprints and DNA and that's why no one used the hoe handle in arguments. Fairly basic.

The blade of the hoe was established as the instrument that inflicted Hannah's and David's wounds, blood was Hannah's and David's wounds matched.

So from this I would say, IMO after David was gotten out of the way, the hoe got washed in water- either by tide, or on purpose but was then used to kill Hannah, later- presumably after the rape, or simply to bash her face in when she was already dead... which is really of interest, that specific act- so violent, so.... out of place so.....it doesn't fit. What if was much later and by another party ?

Get a grip of yourself, for starters to use that hoe as a weapon, BOTH hands would have to be used, the force on which to crack open a skull would mean that grip would have to be seriously tight, the chances of the cloth slipping off the hoe if it's an old one where the surface is smooth from use would make it even more difficult to use, so where did that cloth go to then? more missing evidence? There would also have been fibres left on the hoe which would actually back up your "speculative" post.

[Moonsterk]

You are aware Hannah's body was at least partially submerged in water as evidenced by her lower left calf and half her foot are buried in perfectly smooth sand ? ( which preempts that " large footprint" nonsense.) Such a submersion might have contributed to lack of David's DNA or other physical evidence. I remember something about a condom- empty of ejaculate, being found nearby..

Perhaps the couple had just started their tryst, and were reclining when two short Myanmar lads decided to whack David on the head.. using a cloth or item of clothing to hold the hoe. I never understood the buzz about how their size, or lack of their DNA on the hoe handle was supposed to be a defense. Criminals have been using cloth to hold weapons for some time now- ever since fingerprinting was discovered. And a long handled hoe, if David were standing, would be an adequate height equalizer.

Maybe they really did not mean to kill David, but having done so, felt they must also do away with Hannah?

You are adding pieces in , used a cloth to hold the hoe is total fabrication, it was not in the confession , re-enactment or prosecution.

And why would it need to be?

It simply explains why fingerprints or DNA of Zaw and Wai was not on the handle... And defense realised, correctly- it was no defense, and prosecutors realised it was not of importance because criminals often use cloth, or gloves or other methods to mask fingerprints and DNA and that's why no one used the hoe handle in arguments. Fairly basic.

The blade of the hoe was established as the instrument that inflicted Hannah's and David's wounds, blood was Hannah's and David's wounds matched.

So from this I would say, IMO after David was gotten out of the way, the hoe got washed in water- either by tide, or on purpose but was then used to kill Hannah, later- presumably after the rape, or simply to bash her face in when she was already dead... which is really of interest, that specific act- so violent, so.... out of place so.....it doesn't fit. What if was much later and by another party ?

Get a grip of yourself, for starters to use that hoe as a weapon, BOTH hands would have to be used, the force on which to crack open a skull would mean that grip would have to be seriously tight, the chances of the cloth slipping off the hoe if it's an old one where the surface is smooth from use would make it even more difficult to use, so where did that cloth go to then? more missing evidence? There would also have been fibres left on the hoe which would actually back up your "speculative" post.

"Get a grip" Cute. Your post is pure guesswork and not even very good guesswork What is it about two hands even that precludes use of a cloth? The facts are;

Unknown DNA on the handle of the hoe. ( than means not Mon on or Nom sod's DNA either,) + Hoe blade used to kill Witheridge = ?

I think it is within the realm of possibilities the DNA was from a prior use, like a worker using the hoe to dig a fire pit...

Please tell me your theory how the hoe was used to kill Witheridge- but retained no DNA of anyone known- if not with use of a cloth- with what? How was it achieved?

Washed off? But so much blood left on the blade... Please remember neither defense nor prosecution used this hoe handle in arguements, yet social media misinformation is awash on how lack of Zaw and Wai's DNA on the handle exonerates them.

[Moonsterk]

DNA investigation in murder case of UK backpackers ‘incompetent’

Police in Thailand may be reported to an international regulator over the investigation of two Burmese men convicted of murdering British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller.

International legal and DNA forensic scientists have advised the defence team of the two Burmese, who were sentenced to death, to make a formal complaint and demand a retrial.

The bodies of Ms Witheridge, 23, and Mr Miller, 24, were found on the island of Koh Tao in September 2014.

The experts say at best the DNA investigation by the Thai Police Forensics Laboratory was incompetent with no chain of evidence or proper disclosure to the defence. The worst scenario is Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo were framed.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/dna-investigation-in-murder-case-of-uk-backpackers-incompetent-a3233786.html

"International legal and DNA forensic scientists" " The team" "The experts"

Any names or places of employment to go with that?

A property lawyer and a lab worker with a Bachelor degree, looking to sell a book, both Australian. Pals of Alan Morison? Phuket-Wan was was the very first mis-informer, telling us Hannah was wearing a white bikini, (which were her impressive tan lines) and Miller had semen in his rectum.

[Moonsterk]

You are aware Hannah's body was at least partially submerged in water as evidenced by her lower left calf and half her foot are buried in perfectly smooth sand ? ( which preempts that " large footprint" nonsense.) Such a submersion might have contributed to lack of David's DNA or other physical evidence. I remember something about a condom- empty of ejaculate, being found nearby..

Perhaps the couple had just started their tryst, and were reclining when two short Myanmar lads decided to whack David on the head.. using a cloth or item of clothing to hold the hoe. I never understood the buzz about how their size, or lack of their DNA on the hoe handle was supposed to be a defense. Criminals have been using cloth to hold weapons for some time now- ever since fingerprinting was discovered. And a long handled hoe, if David were standing, would be an adequate height equalizer.

Maybe they really did not mean to kill David, but having done so, felt they must also do away with Hannah?

As for the footprint in the sand ,you should direct the comments to the RTP, after all it is them measuring and photographing peoples feet

The large footprint nonsense was propagated by the Perth Property lawyer, Ian Yardwood which Andrew (Hysterics R Us) Drummond has given much space to along with a Thailand Justice.. web page that is member only, being unable to effectively counter opinions it did not agree with.

Supposedly the search for larger footprints than the convicted possess was more " evidence" they were innocent and Yarwood made much of the defense's failure to bring it up- which of course was a non issue- lack of anything proves nothing. ( Yarwood is a property, not criminal attorney.)

Yes, police made quite a media show of looking at footprints that supposedly were on the beach. In my opinion it was show only, they needed to be seen as doing something while DNA tests were processed. However a larger footprint it does give me a clue in my own personal theory that a third- or more person was involved - later- in the bludgeoning of Hannah. ( How I wish I could read that coroner report- was she dead before the bludgeoing and had she been drugged? )

The sand around Hannah was smooth from the tide coming in and up around her,

I believe the footprints police were looking at initially are from a distance away, the place where Wai and Zaw were hanging out playing guitar- ( and who else has a guitar..?) but it was never clarified.

In short my own personal theory has gelled to this;

Win and Zaw followed the couple and watched as the interlude began, both victims were on the ground- They hit Miller, with the hoe, killing him- and in my opinion, unintentionally.

They both raped Witheridge, and left.

Another party came upon the scene, and took the opportunity to perhaps also rape, but then bludgeon Hannah using a cloth, perhaps one of the items of clothing from David, to grip the left behind hoe.

the violence was from hatred, extreme misogyny. This kind of hatred toward women is, IMO rare in Thais but rampant among western males-particularly those who seek Thailand out to exploit females in various manners.

Wai and Zaw were being treated as murderers the entire time, which explains their initial confession, then retraction.

No one has ever treated this case as several separate crimes, with perhaps more than two involved - and not at the same time.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Moonsterk

[laban]

Just watched the C4 version which did not tell us anything new except the frequency of unexplained deaths on the island, with the incompetence of RTP.

I'm surprised no one has started an online campaign to promote not visiting Koh Tao - that would hurt most the probable killers and the island mafia. Been there once and will never go again.

[rockingrobin]

Moonsterk

You potray the RTP in a very poor light,

They put on a show when measuring residents footprints, even though they stated the foot size was 40,

Did this show also extend to the taking of female dna,the statement that they eas looking into a possibility Hannah was involved in an argument on the night of her murder

[Moonsterk]

Moonsterk

You potray the RTP in a very poor light,

They put on a show when measuring residents footprints, even though they stated the foot size was 40,

Did this show also extend to the taking of female dna,the statement that they eas looking into a possibility Hannah was involved in an argument on the night of her murder

Size 40? Well heck. That might be my western mysogynist.

The argument has never been established it's crap as fact. Now tell me there is a link but refuse to provide it.

Argument by omission.

Female DNA? So? women can't be murderers? There was one rape and two murders nothing says one person did all, then or now..

Edited April 27, 2016 by Moonsterk