self defense in Thailand, is it unlawful to fight back

[spidermike007]

A farang in a fight is seen as entertainment and a money making opportunity for a Thai Policeman.

Here is an example how things can quickly go "belly up' in Thailand.

Some time ago, I was in McDonadls and there were 2 German boys claiming the cashier 'shorted' them the correct change on a 1,000Bt note.

They were being very polite about it all, but persistent, and requested to see the CCTV video to verify their claim.

The cashier of course was not going to show them the evidence...

so the German guys persisted, they wanted the correct change & asked the Tourist Police be called to settle the dispute. They were being very polite and expected it to be sorted by the police.

Coincidentally, there was a police box across the street, so the cashier sent staff and asked the police to come resolve the issue.

Did the police go and help the tourist? No. They sent over 7 motorcycle taxi drivers to escalate the situation and they watched from across the road.

I waved over the German boys and explained the Police were not coming...They are not exactly like the German Police back home...Really? .. and those 7 taxi drivers lurking around were sent by the Police to escalate the situation. Probably get a good kicking, then be spending a day at the Police station costing 20,000 Bt each.

The took my advice and gave up their quest for the correct change.

The 7 motorbike taxi drivers all got a free ice cream.

Never, ever get the police involved. It will never end well for a foreigner. Never. Always remember, the police here do not practice law enforcement. It is all about revenue collection. They are the RCD (revenue collection department).

[citzofwrld]

A farang in a fight is seen as entertainment and a money making opportunity for a Thai Policeman.

Here is an example how things can quickly go "belly up' in Thailand.

Some time ago, I was in McDonadls and there were 2 German boys claiming the cashier 'shorted' them the correct change on a 1,000Bt note.

They were being very polite about it all, but persistent, and requested to see the CCTV video to verify their claim.

The cashier of course was not going to show them the evidence...

so the German guys persisted, they wanted the correct change & asked the Tourist Police be called to settle the dispute. They were being very polite and expected it to be sorted by the police.

Coincidentally, there was a police box across the street, so the cashier sent staff and asked the police to come resolve the issue.

Did the police go and help the tourist? No. They sent over 7 motorcycle taxi drivers to escalate the situation and they watched from across the road.

I waved over the German boys and explained the Police were not coming...They are not exactly like the German Police back home...Really? .. and those 7 taxi drivers lurking around were sent by the Police to escalate the situation. Probably get a good kicking, then be spending a day at the Police station costing 20,000 Bt each.

The took my advice and gave up their quest for the correct change.

The 7 motorbike taxi drivers all got a free ice cream.

Never, ever get the police involved. It will never end well for a foreigner. Never. Always remember, the police here do not practice law enforcement. It is all about revenue collection. They are the RCD (revenue collection department).

Revenue collectors, where have I heard that before? Oh, I remember, the U.S. Cops there haven't served and protected for at least 20+ years. They say, we pull you over because we can. Nothing more then a shakedown for the city coffers. If you call them on a domestic dispute, the situation could easily turn out very bad for the participants, because U.S. cops today hate to be bothered with that kind of trivial stuff. So, their fuse is very short.

[Craig krup]

Revenue collectors, where have I heard that before? Oh, I remember, the U.S. Cops there haven't served and protected for at least 20+ years. They say, we pull you over because we can. Nothing more then a shakedown for the city coffers. If you call them on a domestic dispute, the situation could easily turn out very bad for the participants, because U.S. cops today hate to be bothered with that kind of trivial stuff. So, their fuse is very short.

More than twenty years. Back circa 1990 my British copper pal - for God knows what reason - spent a slice of his holidays doing "ride alongs" with small town cops. All they were interested in was ticketing out of towners for non-existent driving offences.

[citzofwrld]

Revenue collectors, where have I heard that before? Oh, I remember, the U.S. Cops there haven't served and protected for at least 20+ years. They say, we pull you over because we can. Nothing more then a shakedown for the city coffers. If you call them on a domestic dispute, the situation could easily turn out very bad for the participants, because U.S. cops today hate to be bothered with that kind of trivial stuff. So, their fuse is very short.

More than twenty years. Back circa 1990 my British copper pal - for God knows what reason - spent a slice of his holidays doing "ride alongs" with small town cops. All they were interested in was ticketing out of towners for non-existent driving offences.

I took my English Bobby (cop) friend through our city central dispatch back then. Because of his status, they treated us like kings. He gave them a British Police plague to hang in their break room. Afterwards, the sergeant took us on the grand tour of central dispatch, we signed their visitor vip guest book, then went to the gun vault, where he handed me a Thompson 45cal machine gun. He wanted to take a photo of us with it, so he ran off to get a camera. I'm standing there looking at my buddy,and we both started laughing, because the same thought came into our heads. After he returned and got his photo, he took us to the traffic division and left us with the commander there. He told us about how a over eager cop drives around in a unmarked car looking for a reason to pull someone over. Then, showed us a stack of car plates that cop took off cars over the weekend that didn't have proof of insurance/registration. Then, he told us how cops ARE REQUIRED to write a certain number of tickets a day to prove they are doing their job, and for the revenue. If they don't do their assigned quota this are given a verbal warning, next time, written up, the third time suspended without pay, and if it continues to happen, fired.

[FritsSikkink]

Just bear in minds that who ever is the instigator of any altercation, the non Thai will end up paying for all

damages and hospital bills, no matter whether it was a self defense using resemble force to protect oneself,

this is the law of the land, i.e. Thai= poor, farang= rich, and so this ' logic' prevails even in motor vehicles

accidents, so think twice before acting unless there's no other way out to act.....

Strange, I have been living in Thailand since 1991, the foreign friends I have here are all also long (or even longer) term residents, and neither I or my friends have actually seen that in real life. We have heard of it for 25 years or more now but it never happens, where we live anyway. Treatment both at police stations and in accidents have always been fair

Is this specific to Pattaya and Phuket?

not in phuket

[FritsSikkink]

A farang in a fight is seen as entertainment and a money making opportunity for a Thai Policeman.

Here is an example how things can quickly go "belly up' in Thailand.

Some time ago, I was in McDonadls and there were 2 German boys claiming the cashier 'shorted' them the correct change on a 1,000Bt note.

They were being very polite about it all, but persistent, and requested to see the CCTV video to verify their claim.

The cashier of course was not going to show them the evidence...

so the German guys persisted, they wanted the correct change & asked the Tourist Police be called to settle the dispute. They were being very polite and expected it to be sorted by the police.

Coincidentally, there was a police box across the street, so the cashier sent staff and asked the police to come resolve the issue.

Did the police go and help the tourist? No. They sent over 7 motorcycle taxi drivers to escalate the situation and they watched from across the road.

I waved over the German boys and explained the Police were not coming...They are not exactly like the German Police back home...Really? .. and those 7 taxi drivers lurking around were sent by the Police to escalate the situation. Probably get a good kicking, then be spending a day at the Police station costing 20,000 Bt each.

The took my advice and gave up their quest for the correct change.

The 7 motorbike taxi drivers all got a free ice cream.

Never, ever get the police involved. It will never end well for a foreigner. Never. Always remember, the police here do not practice law enforcement. It is all about revenue collection. They are the RCD (revenue collection department).

nonsense

[dcnx]

I don't pay much attention to the law here in regards to most things. I just try to stay alive by all means possible.

[spidermike007]

A farang in a fight is seen as entertainment and a money making opportunity for a Thai Policeman.

Here is an example how things can quickly go "belly up' in Thailand.

Some time ago, I was in McDonadls and there were 2 German boys claiming the cashier 'shorted' them the correct change on a 1,000Bt note.

They were being very polite about it all, but persistent, and requested to see the CCTV video to verify their claim.

The cashier of course was not going to show them the evidence...

so the German guys persisted, they wanted the correct change & asked the Tourist Police be called to settle the dispute. They were being very polite and expected it to be sorted by the police.

Coincidentally, there was a police box across the street, so the cashier sent staff and asked the police to come resolve the issue.

Did the police go and help the tourist? No. They sent over 7 motorcycle taxi drivers to escalate the situation and they watched from across the road.

I waved over the German boys and explained the Police were not coming...They are not exactly like the German Police back home...Really? .. and those 7 taxi drivers lurking around were sent by the Police to escalate the situation. Probably get a good kicking, then be spending a day at the Police station costing 20,000 Bt each.

The took my advice and gave up their quest for the correct change.

The 7 motorbike taxi drivers all got a free ice cream.

Never, ever get the police involved. It will never end well for a foreigner. Never. Always remember, the police here do not practice law enforcement. It is all about revenue collection. They are the RCD (revenue collection department).

nonsense

Can you please inform us why you think this is nonsense? Could you cite some examples?

I could cite one story after another, of either direct involvement, or incidents friends were involved in. Rarely, were the police ever an ally, to either the Thai friends of mine, nor the foreigners. Virtually everyone I know, does everything in their power to NOT involve the police.

[Tomtomtom69]

Just bear in minds that who ever is the instigator of any altercation, the non Thai will end up paying for all

damages and hospital bills, no matter whether it was a self defense using resemble force to protect oneself,

this is the law of the land, i.e. Thai= poor, farang= rich, and so this ' logic' prevails even in motor vehicles

accidents, so think twice before acting unless there's no other way out to act.....

Link to said law of the land please.

BS. While I've been very lucky not to have been involved in more than a couple of road incidents here, out of 3 incidents I have had, 2 were the other party's fault and only 1 was my fault.

The outcomes were acceptable in the second 2 cases, while in the first case I was probably too young or naïve to know what to do.

Let me explain.

First incident happened many years ago, I was only 20 at the time. Came on an extended semester break from university to teach English and had bought myself a second hand, 6 year old Mitsubishi Lancer. Pretty good car with an EVO III bodykit. Already had some driving experience in Thailand but I guess I was still fairly inexperienced in a sense, though I had managed to drive that car down to Penang in Malaysia, only to have a dog run into my bumper 100km from home in Ratchaburi province.

So this time I made the mistake of not looking both ways while pulling into a one way road (namely a normal two-way road with 2 lanes in each direction). A small moped came from the wrong direction, driving on the shoulder and bam! hit my bumper. After checking out the damage, I let him go thinking he doesn't have any money anyway. My Thai at the time was not very good either. However, since I only had 3rd party insurance that meant a new 6000 Baht bumper. Luckily there was a shop selling these less than a km away.

Second time was my fault (at least partly). This time a few years later and driving a different, brand new car, a Mitsubishi Triton. Was driving along the Mekong river road from Nong Khai toward Loei. 3 year old child doesn't look and runs into my car; hitting my front bumper. Distraught but lucky, the family runs after the child to make sure it's OK. I make a U-turn and then my friend with me takes over the driving. We take the child to the local hospital; luckily no problems but to be safe we later move the child to Nong Khai, where a full medical assessment is made. Insurance guy comes over, promises to pay some compensation to the family (4500 Baht), as well as all medical costs and we end up giving 300 just so they can go to the hospital for wound dressing. Local family doesn't know nor care who was driving (me or the Thai friend). All is settled.

Third time driving a Lao registered, LHD rental from Vientiane to Mae Sot via Phitsanulok. Vietnamese friend was driving the car at the time. All of a sudden, we are rear-ended. Stupid local woman who doesn't know how to apply her brakes is driving. Her boyfriend is the passenger. Ironically, both are medical personnel working at the Phitsanulok university hospital. Lady claims she couldn't brake in time since she didn't expect the traffic light ahead to go red. Boyfriend gave 1000 Baht compensation for the small scratches on my rear bumper. Their front end is badly dented. I didn't call the insurance, should have though. Although the 1000 wasn't enough to get the bumper re-painted (it was actually 2200) being a rental car, I feared I'd be hit up for a US$1500 excess so taking the 1200 Baht loss and not telling them what had happened (though such minor damage was barely even noticeable) was the better option.

[Tomtomtom69]

A farang in a fight is seen as entertainment and a money making opportunity for a Thai Policeman.

Here is an example how things can quickly go "belly up' in Thailand.

Some time ago, I was in McDonadls and there were 2 German boys claiming the cashier 'shorted' them the correct change on a 1,000Bt note.

They were being very polite about it all, but persistent, and requested to see the CCTV video to verify their claim.

The cashier of course was not going to show them the evidence...

so the German guys persisted, they wanted the correct change & asked the Tourist Police be called to settle the dispute. They were being very polite and expected it to be sorted by the police.

Coincidentally, there was a police box across the street, so the cashier sent staff and asked the police to come resolve the issue.

Did the police go and help the tourist? No. They sent over 7 motorcycle taxi drivers to escalate the situation and they watched from across the road.

I waved over the German boys and explained the Police were not coming...They are not exactly like the German Police back home...Really? .. and those 7 taxi drivers lurking around were sent by the Police to escalate the situation. Probably get a good kicking, then be spending a day at the Police station costing 20,000 Bt each.

The took my advice and gave up their quest for the correct change.

The 7 motorbike taxi drivers all got a free ice cream.

Never, ever get the police involved. It will never end well for a foreigner. Never. Always remember, the police here do not practice law enforcement. It is all about revenue collection. They are the RCD (revenue collection department).

nonsense

I find it hard to believe that in the McDonalds incident the police would respond like that. It's McDonalds and the cashier is just a poorly paid slave of a big foreign multinational. If it were a mom and dad shop, different story, but a chain restaurant? Seems dubious to me. Seems even more dubious that the incorrect change would be given. On one or two occasions the 7-11 cashier gave me the wrong change - I told them and they were like "oh right" and quickly gave the extra 10 Baht or whatever it was without hesitation. They didn't deliberately withhold it, but rather had a brain fart or something thinking that 30 Baht was 40 Baht. Happens to the best of us. Similarly, I've had too much change returned to me as well.

I am fluent in Thai though. Maybe the German guys were misunderstood since they are unlikely to speak "zeh Thai".

[ttthailand]

Get out of the bars and off the street before midnight and it is unlikely you will ever have any problems.

[citzofwrld]

Get out of the bars and off the street before midnight and it is unlikely you will ever have any problems.

That may stop 3/4 of the problems occurring but not all. I was accosted on two different occasions by aggressive LB's around 5:00pm, 2km away from Jomtein Beach, well away from the city.

[ardokano]

Get out of the bars and off the street before midnight and it is unlikely you will ever have any problems.

off the street before midnight

Wow.

You guess Thailand that much dangeres?

I no think so.

[MikeyIdea]

A farang in a fight is seen as entertainment and a money making opportunity for a Thai Policeman.

Here is an example how things can quickly go "belly up' in Thailand.

Some time ago, I was in McDonadls and there were 2 German boys claiming the cashier 'shorted' them the correct change on a 1,000Bt note.

They were being very polite about it all, but persistent, and requested to see the CCTV video to verify their claim.

The cashier of course was not going to show them the evidence...

so the German guys persisted, they wanted the correct change & asked the Tourist Police be called to settle the dispute. They were being very polite and expected it to be sorted by the police.

Coincidentally, there was a police box across the street, so the cashier sent staff and asked the police to come resolve the issue.

Did the police go and help the tourist? No. They sent over 7 motorcycle taxi drivers to escalate the situation and they watched from across the road.

I waved over the German boys and explained the Police were not coming...They are not exactly like the German Police back home...Really? .. and those 7 taxi drivers lurking around were sent by the Police to escalate the situation. Probably get a good kicking, then be spending a day at the Police station costing 20,000 Bt each.

The took my advice and gave up their quest for the correct change.

The 7 motorbike taxi drivers all got a free ice cream.

Never, ever get the police involved. It will never end well for a foreigner. Never. Always remember, the police here do not practice law enforcement. It is all about revenue collection. They are the RCD (revenue collection department).

nonsense

Can you please inform us why you think this is nonsense? Could you cite some examples?

I could cite one story after another, of either direct involvement, or incidents friends were involved in. Rarely, were the police ever an ally, to either the Thai friends of mine, nor the foreigners. Virtually everyone I know, does everything in their power to NOT involve the police.

Samples coming up

I have after some 400,000 km over the last 24 years in this country never been unfairly treated by the traffic police. I have had a few small accidents during that time, all of them have been the other parties fault. I have occasionally chosen to involve the police, good way to cut the bs out. I have been incorrectly accused of doing a red light once but I know that I was very close to making one too so it was a genuine mistake by the police (= not unfairly treated) and I didn't pay anything, some waste of time only

I sometimes thought that I had been unfairly treated by the traffic police in the beginning of my stay in Thailand but I spent an hour with a lawyer going through the traffic laws and I have not complained since. I have still been penalized many times... but it has always been when I know I did wrong. Fly-overs and 2nd lane on 2 lane roads on motorcycle in Bangkok quite often, occasionally for turning from the wrong lane and driving too fast

The police has sometimes been unwilling to impose penalties but that has nothing to do with me being a farang = "roi wen" (2nd level policeman) will normally negotiate a mutual agreement rather than punish, that is the culture in Thailand and we have no right to criticize that

"Virtually everyone I know, does everything in their power to NOT involve the police" as you write above goes totally against my experience - I'd be happy to involve them if necessary

Edited May 9, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[spidermike007]

Never, ever get the police involved. It will never end well for a foreigner. Never. Always remember, the police here do not practice law enforcement. It is all about revenue collection. They are the RCD (revenue collection department).

nonsense

Can you please inform us why you think this is nonsense? Could you cite some examples?

I could cite one story after another, of either direct involvement, or incidents friends were involved in. Rarely, were the police ever an ally, to either the Thai friends of mine, nor the foreigners. Virtually everyone I know, does everything in their power to NOT involve the police.

Samples coming up

I have after some 400,000 km over the last 24 years in this country never been unfairly treated by the traffic police. I have had a few small accidents during that time, all of them have been the other parties fault. I have occasionally chosen to involve the police, good way to cut the bs out. I have been incorrectly accused of doing a red light once but I know that I was very close to making one too so it was a genuine mistake by the police (= not unfairly treated) and I didn't pay anything, some waste of time only

I sometimes thought that I had been unfairly treated by the traffic police in the beginning of my stay in Thailand but I spent an hour with a lawyer going through the traffic laws and I have not complained since. I have still been penalized many times... but it has always been when I know I did wrong. Fly-overs and 2nd lane on 2 lane roads on motorcycle in Bangkok quite often, occasionally for turning from the wrong lane and driving too fast

The police has sometimes been unwilling to impose penalties but that has nothing to do with me being a farang = "roi wen" (2nd level policeman) will normally negotiate a mutual agreement rather than punish, that is the culture in Thailand and we have no right to criticize that

"Virtually everyone I know, does everything in their power to NOT involve the police" as you write above goes totally against my experience - I'd be happy to involve them if necessary

Frankly, I am thrilled to hear some positive stories about the police work done here. It does give one hope. I will keep an open mind. Thanks for that.

[spidermike007]

If it is only two guys on a street then I think I would fight and go after each as if my life depended on it, and would win ! If 3 or more perhaps it is a swing like crazy and run like hell into a shop someplace near by and call police. This is a no win situation but I won't just sit and let cun/-s kick the shit out of me. They will also pay a price.

You want to see a Thai run a 100 yard dash? Get in a fight.

A mob of random, bitter guys will instantly arrive to kick your head in.

You try it?

Thai not really fighting nationality.. if few guy get seriously injured they see the blood and scatter like cockroaches when you turn on the light. Even if its crime community.. Its not as in London "firm" or in Russian "bratva" .. or even chines gang... Not have any brutal..Its not Brazil or Colombia...

I would have to agree with that. The exception may be with some gangs, or some tech school turf battles, and the like. But, most Thais are not going to go for the kill. In the Philippines or Brazil, many guys are very skilled, when it comes to a variety of fighting techniques. You get attacked by one of those guys, and you may end up with permanent reminders of the altercation, for the rest of your life. Same goes with many other countries. Not like the average lightweight Thai altercation.

[willyumiii]

The problem is that a Thai man will almost never fight you one on one.

They almost always show up with a gang.

How do you, alone, possibly defend yourself against a group?

It's best not to p#ss anyone off in Thailand!

[moe666]

The usual non sense post about howfarangs will not get a fair shake, rule 1 do not get so drunk you are out of control, rule 2 checkrule 1

[moe666]

If it is only two guys on a street then I think I would fight and go after each as if my life depended on it, and would win ! If 3 or more perhaps it is a swing like crazy and run like hell into a shop someplace near by and call police. This is a no win situation but I won't just sit and let cun/-s kick the shit out of me. They will also pay a price.

You want to see a Thai run a 100 yard dash? Get in a fight.

A mob of random, bitter guys will instantly arrive to kick your head in.

You try it?

Thai not really fighting nationality.. if few guy get seriously injured they see the blood and scatter like cockroaches when you turn on the light. Even if its crime community.. Its not as in London "firm" or in Russian "bratva" .. or even chines gang... Not have any brutal..Its not Brazil or Colombia...

I would have to agree with that. The exception may be with some gangs, or some tech school turf battles, and the like. But, most Thais are not going to go for the kill. In the Philippines or Brazil, many guys are very skilled, when it comes to a variety of fighting techniques. You get attacked by one of those guys, and you may end up with permanent reminders of the altercation, for the rest of your life. Same goes with many other countries. Not like the average lightweight Thai altercation.

you are joking right

[spidermike007]

If it is only two guys on a street then I think I would fight and go after each as if my life depended on it, and would win ! If 3 or more perhaps it is a swing like crazy and run like hell into a shop someplace near by and call police. This is a no win situation but I won't just sit and let cun/-s kick the shit out of me. They will also pay a price.

You want to see a Thai run a 100 yard dash? Get in a fight.

A mob of random, bitter guys will instantly arrive to kick your head in.

You try it?

Thai not really fighting nationality.. if few guy get seriously injured they see the blood and scatter like cockroaches when you turn on the light. Even if its crime community.. Its not as in London "firm" or in Russian "bratva" .. or even chines gang... Not have any brutal..Its not Brazil or Colombia...

I would have to agree with that. The exception may be with some gangs, or some tech school turf battles, and the like. But, most Thais are not going to go for the kill. In the Philippines or Brazil, many guys are very skilled, when it comes to a variety of fighting techniques. You get attacked by one of those guys, and you may end up with permanent reminders of the altercation, for the rest of your life. Same goes with many other countries. Not like the average lightweight Thai altercation.

you are joking right

Absolutely not. The average Thai guy has very, very little in the way of boxing, wrestling, or martial arts skills. If fighting without their pack, or their gang, they will usually not inflict much damage, assuming there are no weapons involved.

[Kaalle]

Spidermike has a point, and there is usually a pretty substantial weight difference too. Its not like all thai men have 200 professional muay thai fights under their belts. They practice it a bit in school as physical ed. thats it. Thais dont train muay thai for fun.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Kaalle