Hi folks, I'm a new member, please excuse me if this is not the right place to post or inappropriate.

A British friend of mine had a conviction in Thailand for a bit of ganja back in the eighties, leading to deportation and being banned from entering Thailand.

He was under the impression that the ban was for a certain number of years, but when he tried to enter at Suvarnabhumi last year, on a stopover with a through ticket, he was denied entry. He tried to appeal to the immigration officials that the ban should have expired, being thirty years ago, but the chief said no, try again in another thirty years! He could remember enough Thai to make them all laugh, but they were obviously unable to relent.

Anyway, on hearing of his predicament I recalled somebody telling me previously how they had a very simple solution to the same situation and resumed normal life in Thailand, but I didn't take much notice and now for the life of me can't remember what it was. It was not about changing one's name, which my friend prefers to avoid.

So I thought I would ask here if anyone can relieve my annoying memory lapse, or offer any suitable advice. I am not suggesting any violation of Thai law, of course, but he feels in a bit of a 'catch 22' situation when he cannot be in the country to work on clearing the problem, etc.

Thanks very much in advance!

He would have to hire a lawyer here to appeal his current persona non grata status.

He could of also appealed his denial of entry when it occurred. After the appeal was lodged immigration would have 7 days to respond to it. During those 7 days he would likely have to stay in detention at the airport until the appeal was completed.

black list is usually for 100years.

it is possible, after a certain number of years to file a appeal.

black list is usually for 100years.

it is possible, after a certain number of years to file a appeal.

Do you have links to official sources that would support what you say ?

black list is usually for 100years.

it is possible, after a certain number of years to file a appeal.

Do you have links to official sources that would support what you say ?

no, but when we check people and they appear on the blacklist the standard time indicated is 100years.

change name, new passport.

change name, new passport.

If he was deported 30 years ago, presumably he's had several new passport since then and that alone didn't deter immigrations from ID-ing him.

I assume if you change your name and apply for a new passport there must be some form of identity carried forward. If it were that simple to wash away your identity, everyone on InterPol's wanted list would just change their names and passports.

The realization that paper-based passports can be too easily altered or falsified is driving a worldwide move to electronic passports. The large number of lost or stolen passports across the globe meant there was a huge pool of paper-based passports potentially available to counterfeiters. After the terrorist attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001, the United States Congress legislated that all countries participating in the Visa Waiver Program with the United States must issue passports with integrated circuits (chips) to add digital security features. These features prevent counterfeiting and positively confirm the bearer of the passport with a biometric identifier, such as a digital copy of the photograph printed on the cover.

Edited April 23, 201610 yr by Suradit69

change name, new passport.

Does anyone know if this really works.

change name, new passport.

Does anyone know if this really works.

The only thing you cannot change is your DOB, lots of people have the same DOB, they are not going to go and look for photo ID from 30 years ago if a red flag comes up on the DOB

I know of friends having the Persona Non Grata in the 80s and came back in 2 years later with a new passport and had no problem but it was not for a drug offence just over stay and got caught.

change name, new passport.

Does anyone know if this really works.

The only thing you cannot change is your DOB, lots of people have the same DOB, they are not going to go and look for photo ID from 30 years ago if a red flag comes up on the DOB

If your suggestion of deception worked he would be in the country illegally even if stamped in with a valid passport and visa.

They have facial recognition systems in place now I believe, could be wrong though

They have facial recognition systems in place now I believe, could be wrong though

They have a camera that takes your pic and puts it in the database. If they had a recognition system do you think it would work? they cannot even get the 90 day online to work properly.

No, they don't have facial recognotion today.

As for this particular example, his friend was blacklisted in the 80s. I'm not too sure if they had either computers or cameras back then.

PS I actually think they introduced the cameras a few years ago, I don't remember them when I first arrived in Thailand in 2008-2009.

Edited April 23, 201610 yr by lkv

First step is hire a Thai based lawyer to appeal it. And then wait. Removing the blacklist can take a very long time. One such appeal I know of had been going for almost 6 years without a ruling. That was several years ago and have no idea if it was successful or if it's still in process. If he has thousands of dollars and doesn't mind being denied after years of trying then go ahead. Otherwise, tell your friend he's had too much of a good thing already and try some other country instead

No, they don't have facial recognotion today.

As for this particular example, his friend was blacklisted in the 80s. I'm not too sure if they had either computers or cameras back then.

PS I actually think they introduced the cameras a few years ago, I don't remember them when I first arrived in Thailand in 2008-2009.

Although the Thai criminal justice system has never been exactly state of the art, I think it fair to assume that someone convicted of drug offenses, blacklisted and deported would have had their photo taken. That said, whether he would be easily recognizable from a 30-year-old photo is questionable.

They have facial recognition systems in place now I believe, could be wrong though

Announced in 10/2015 immigration will be implementing facial recognition at all entry points into Thailand. Would have to evaluate suppliers, integrate to back end systems, phased implementation etc. so actual go-live probably sometime in the next few years, if not longer.

Thanks for the responses and advice.

I did try to search this forum (but not others) for any previous postings on this subject, but didn't see anything.

As I mentioned, what's really bugging me is that somebody was talking about their friend who was deported for a similar offence but is still living in Thailand, and when I asked how he managed to do so, it was a seemingly quite simple remedy. But I just can't remember what it was or even who was talking about it, to be able to ask them again. So that's what I was hoping somebody here might come up with.

However, the possibility of appealing the ban is something my friend Mike is interested in - I spoke to him by phone this morning. He doesn't fancy spending up to seven days in the subterranean lockup at Suvarnabhumi, having already spent one night there amongst the various six-legged and two-legged life forms when they took so long to process him that he missed the last last flight out on his ticket that time.

So if anyone can recommend a way to find reliable lawyer he can contact and discuss the possibilities, without actually being in-country, that would also be helpful. I am in Thailand sometimes, but not familiar enough with that sort of thing to be sure of avoiding the obvious pitfalls, and don't really want to get too involved.

Mike is a decent guy, not any kind of 'drug dealer' (or he would probably have been able to avoid the consequences of his misdemeanour), and has lived in various parts of the world. He says Thailand is probably his favourite, and now nearing his 70's would like to be able to spend part of the year there, plus have that convenient access to neighbouring countries.

Thanks again!

so nobody has come up with an example of somebody who changed name and passport but was caught and turned back? suggests rather that it does work. You can't really do the using another persons birth cert these day as they tied the death and birth records up some years ago. I would not say somebody who got done for a bit of dope 30 years ago is a druggie putting the moral fiber of the country in danger Forget appealing, waste of time and cash

Edited April 24, 201610 yr by thai3

Ha - now I see the second page of posts - thanks all - I'll comment later...

Edited April 24, 201610 yr by 12noon

Just did a major cleanup of this topic by removing several off topic and inflammatory posts and the expected replies to them.

change name, new passport.

If he was deported 30 years ago, presumably he's had several new passport since then and that alone didn't deter immigrations from ID-ing him.

I assume if you change your name and apply for a new passport there must be some form of identity carried forward. If it were that simple to wash away your identity, everyone on InterPol's wanted list would just change their names and passports.

The realization that paper-based passports can be too easily altered or falsified is driving a worldwide move to electronic passports. The large number of lost or stolen passports across the globe meant there was a huge pool of paper-based passports potentially available to counterfeiters. After the terrorist attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001, the United States Congress legislated that all countries participating in the Visa Waiver Program with the United States must issue passports with integrated circuits (chips) to add digital security features. These features prevent counterfeiting and positively confirm the bearer of the passport with a biometric identifier, such as a digital copy of the photograph printed on the cover.

Interpol perhaps.. But this aint interpol..

change name, new passport.

Does anyone know if this really works.

It does.. Someone I knew was busted and deported.. back a few weeks later with a very minor tweak to his name.

No, they don't have facial recognotion today.

As for this particular example, his friend was blacklisted in the 80s. I'm not too sure if they had either computers or cameras back then.

PS I actually think they introduced the cameras a few years ago, I don't remember them when I first arrived in Thailand in 2008-2009.

If I'm not mistaken, the first computerised data capture system for Thai Immigration, donated by Australia, was installed at Don Muang around the mid eighties. Before that, presumably the only records were a huge collection of landing cards. But this computer system required manual input by the officer of course, until machine readable passports became the norm and systems updated.

Cameras were introduced, I seem to remember, in the mid nineties, adding a digital photo to the captured data for each arriving passenger. The ones currently used appear to be the same or a similar model camera. At first they were often apparently not working. These cameras have obviously never been part of a biometric facial recognition system (as Simple1's news seems to confirm), which could potentially match and flag up duplicate identities automatically. There are already self service 'e-gates' for Thai passport holders that presumably make a biometric facial match, but I think that a fully biometric system for everyone will be very expensive, complex and time consuming to install effectively.

As for any relevance of all this to Mike's case, he reminded me today how in the early 90's he did in fact enter and leave Thailand twice without any problem. In those days you could enter for two months visa-free I believe. But on the third occasion the computer system must have been repaired or the officer actually input his data correctly, or something, because he suddenly came up as blacklisted, had the announcement stamped in his passport and was sent out on the next flight.

So he thought it was worth another attempt last year, perhaps to 'test the waters' after the considerable time lapse, but came up against the modern system with an enduring memory and a diligent officer on duty.

change name, new passport.

Does anyone know if this really works.

It does.. Someone I knew was busted and deported.. back a few weeks later with a very minor tweak to his name.

How recent was this?

One reason why Mike does not fancy changing his name is because he suspects it would not work these days.

Another thing he told me today is that on the way to the airport for deportation thirty years ago, one of the immigration officers escorting him actually told him not to worry, he could just change his name and come back!

I asked Mike to have a look at this thread himself, he might even participate.

I believe these days, following a name change, part of the electronic data in the passport is the previous name. Thus, a name change may not be sufficient unless you can convince the passport issuing authority to tweak the information on the passport.

All the methods we are discussing now amount to illegal entry, something with potentially unpleasant consequences. I am sympathetic, but doubt anything can easily be done without the assistance of influential people.

One probably worthless thing to try: the Thailand Elite organization clearly has some clout when they choose to use it. You could contact them explaining the situation and promising to purchase a membership if they can have the PNG canceled. I give this a greater than 0% chance of success, but not by much.

friend of mine had a conviction in Thailand for a bit of ganja back in the eighties

To get blacklisted I am sure that it was a lot more than a "bit of ganja"

And considering that one of the most popular forms of Marijuana at the time was known as "Thai Sticks" my bet is he was dealing or at a minimum trying to set up a score

He's also had a recent mugshot taken which will help identify him with more the recent data held against him.

I believe these days, following a name change, part of the electronic data in the passport is the previous name. Thus, a name change may not be sufficient unless you can convince the passport issuing authority to tweak the information on the passport.

Thanks for your comments Tim, and I think you are right about the above. It's one of the reasons he's not in favour of going through a name change (unless there's a real indication that it would work), as well as a desire to be as legal as possible.

I believe these days, following a name change, part of the electronic data in the passport is the previous name. Thus, a name change may not be sufficient unless you can convince the passport issuing authority to tweak the information on the passport.

Thanks for your comments Tim, and I think you are right about the above. It's one of the reasons he's not in favour of going through a name change (unless there's a real indication that it would work), as well as a desire to be as legal as possible.

In the optional data (not required) there is a place for "Other Names" but I am not sure that refers to previous legal names.

If the information is not printed on the first Notes page following the picture page, the name change is likely not on the passport. As it is not required information, it would be up to your country whether they add that information on the passport.

http://www.icao.int/publications/Documents/9303_p10_cons_en.pdf