Gay couple wins custody battle against Thai surrogate mother

[CWMcMurray]

I rarely post on TV anymore but reading this thread has got my back up. I consider myself a "family man" and as such I'm delighted with the result of this court case as a child will now be raised by 2 people who are obviously totally devoted to her. Bravo

Have to agree

Also from what I have read, it wasn't that the surrogate loved and wanted the baby and couldn't bare to keep with the agreement..

It was that she only backed out after realizing was a gay couple as didn't want the baby to go to a gay couple

So on one side you have the father fighting for custody out of love and the other side fighting out of hate..

Seems to be clear case of where the best interests of the child lay to me...

[Toknarok]

I'm not going to comment further on this particular case as it has been done to death already. IMHO the whole surrogacy business is a mess. Thailand did the right thing by making it illegal, I feel it would be a good thing if all countries followed suite. There are just too many traps and pitfalls at present.

I see that the saga of the other Thai surrogacy case that drew international attention (when the 'parents' rejected a Downs Syndrome twin) is still not over see....http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/apr/28/baby-gammy-twin-sisters-adoptive-parents-could-face-perjury-charges

Although I have no doubt that most surrogacy contracts are completed successfully, there are human beings at stake here, not goods and chattels, I am of the opinion that surrogacy should be outlawed completely.

[Bluespunk]

She wasn't and isn't and never will be the mother.

What does it say as the headline to this thread?

Yeah cause headlines are always bang on accurate...

She is a surrogate who has no biological link to the child.

She is not her mother.

Who then is the mother...?

In this case there really isn't one in the traditional sense of the word. Though biologically it would be the donor of the egg that was fertilized.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Bluespunk

[DM07]

Rubbish.....The baby grew inside a lady and gave birth to it, that is what a mother does...

Or you reckon it ain't got one , I think you have just realised my point, every one wants to think it ain't got a mum, isn't that just great for the kid to know when growing up and asks questions...

Yeah...booo-hooo and "yaaaaawn" at the same time!

What about orphans, who have been dropped into a garbage- can, right after birth?

What are you going to tell them?

"Oh...you had a mother, who brought you into this world...but she a) didn't love you enough to take care of you, or b ) her life was so sh1tty, that she saw no other way out, but to leave you as rats- food! Have a good life, darling!"

By the way: what you are describing is an incubator, not a mother!

There are many more things to be added, to turn a "woman" into a "mother"!

But that does not fit your narrative now, would it!

Because it would include "love", "warmth" or "care"...something, that these to gay- guys are obviously willing to give to the child!

So either of these men, will probably be a good "mother"- figure!

Live with it!

Edited April 29, 2016 by DM07

[SoiBiker]

Rubbish.....The baby grew inside a lady and gave birth to it, that is what a mother does...

Or you reckon it ain't got one , I think you have just realised my point, every one wants to think it ain't got a mum, isn't that just great for the kid to know when growing up and asks questions...

Dude, you sound like a 6-year-old talking about where babies come from.

The role of 'mother' is surprisingly complicated to define. It comprises three main elements - providing the genetic material in the form of an egg, carrying the child in the womb, and raising the child as a parent. You don't necessarily need to perform all three roles to be considered a mother, and they are often carried out by different people. In this case, all three roles are carried out by different people, so it's difficult - and not very helpful - to say who should be considered the mother of this child.

As the child has already been born, the most important of the three roles now is the third one, that of parent. The child in question has two people willing to fulfil this role, so I'd say it was in a pretty good place. Those who have a problem with allowing gay men to occupy the parental role may disagree.

[SoiBiker]

Rubbish.....The baby grew inside a lady and gave birth to it, that is what a mother does...

Or you reckon it ain't got one , I think you have just realised my point, every one wants to think it ain't got a mum, isn't that just great for the kid to know when growing up and asks questions...

Dude, you sound like a 6-year-old talking about where babies come from.

The role of 'mother' is surprisingly complicated to define. It comprises three main elements - providing the genetic material in the form of an egg, carrying the child in the womb, and raising the child as a parent. You don't necessarily need to perform all three roles to be considered a mother, and they are often carried out by different people. In this case, all three roles are carried out by different people, so it's difficult - and not very helpful - to say who should be considered the mother of this child.

As the child has already been born, the most important of the three roles now is the third one, that of parent. The child in question has two people willing to fulfil this role, so I'd say it was in a pretty good place. Those who have a problem with allowing gay men to occupy the parental role may disagree.

Who then is the mother...?

Please stop harping on about the gay stuff, I am posting regarding a kid...

Did you even read what I posted?

[SoiBiker]

Yes I did...

Let me turn this around a bit...A husband and wife cannot have kids cos the wife's eggs are crap...They use medical science to use a donor egg....It works, they have a babe on the way......

Is the wife the mother....yes or no...?

Both women could be described as the mother for different reasons.

You're demanding a simple answer to a complex question. Sometimes life doesn't work that way.

Read again what I posted, and think about it.

[Bluespunk]

Rubbish.....The baby grew inside a lady and gave birth to it, that is what a mother does...

Or you reckon it ain't got one , I think you have just realised my point, every one wants to think it ain't got a mum, isn't that just great for the kid to know when growing up and asks questions...

Nope you are wrong. She incubated the baby, that is all.

As long as the family is loving and caring then the gender of the parents doesn't matter.

[SoiBiker]

Yes I did...

Let me turn this around a bit...A husband and wife cannot have kids cos the wife's eggs are crap...They use medical science to use a donor egg....It works, they have a babe on the way......

Is the wife the mother....yes or no...?

Both women could be described as the mother for different reasons.

You're demanding a simple answer to a complex question. Sometimes life doesn't work that way.

Read again what I posted, and think about it.

My question is dodged..........

No - your question is a naive and simplistic one, for which there isn't always one obvious answer.

You're smart enough to grasp this concept. But maybe you have your own reasons for not doing so.

[SoiBiker]

If you and your Mrs used this procedure would you tell her she ain't mum after giving birth....?

Obviously, if my wife and I were raising a child together she would be considered the mother.

[DM07]

If you and your Mrs used this procedure would you tell her she ain't mum after giving birth....?

Obviously, if my wife and I were raising a child together she would be considered the mother.

Dude, seriously...let it be and use your time for something more productive!

There is no cure for extreme stupidity!

[Johnniey]

Rubbish.....The baby grew inside a lady and gave birth to it, that is what a mother does...

Or you reckon it ain't got one , I think you have just realised my point, every one wants to think it ain't got a mum, isn't that just great for the kid to know when growing up and asks questions...

Nope you are wrong. She incubated the baby, that is all.

As long as the family is loving and caring then the gender of the parents doesn't matter.

Can you back this up with facts?

I'd say, based on limited research that a child brought up by gay parents is more likely to be gay.

[SoiBiker]

Rubbish.....The baby grew inside a lady and gave birth to it, that is what a mother does...

Or you reckon it ain't got one , I think you have just realised my point, every one wants to think it ain't got a mum, isn't that just great for the kid to know when growing up and asks questions...

Nope you are wrong. She incubated the baby, that is all.

As long as the family is loving and caring then the gender of the parents doesn't matter.

Can you back this up with facts?

I'd say, based on limited research that a child brought up by gay parents is more likely to be gay.

In that case, why don't straight parents have straight kids?

Can you share this 'research' with us?

[Bluespunk]

Rubbish.....The baby grew inside a lady and gave birth to it, that is what a mother does...

Or you reckon it ain't got one , I think you have just realised my point, every one wants to think it ain't got a mum, isn't that just great for the kid to know when growing up and asks questions...

Nope you are wrong. She incubated the baby, that is all.

As long as the family is loving and caring then the gender of the parents doesn't matter.

Can you back this up with facts?

I'd say, based on limited research that a child brought up by gay parents is more likely to be gay.

Yeah right, you did research.

Garbage.

[Bluespunk]

Worth a read regarding mother status that some are saying the lady ain't the mum.......

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/2299.aspx?categoryid=54

She isn't.

[SoiBiker]

Worth a read regarding mother status that some are saying the lady ain't the mum.......

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/2299.aspx?categoryid=54

Like I keep telling you, 'mother' is a complex concept. Trying to simplify it will lead you nowhere.

Try the Wikipedia page for an overview.

[SoiBiker]

Worth a read regarding mother status that some are saying the lady ain't the mum.......

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/2299.aspx?categoryid=54

Like I keep telling you, 'mother' is a complex concept. Trying to simplify it will lead you nowhere.

Try the Wikipedia page for an overview.

I have.....The main meaning for me is, A women who gives birth.....End of story..

I guess deliberate ignorance is an option. Hardly one that's going to convince anyone of the strength of your argument, though.

[CWMcMurray]

Yes I did...

Let me turn this around a bit...A husband and wife cannot have kids cos the wife's eggs are crap...They use medical science to use a donor egg....It works, they have a babe on the way......

Is the wife the mother....yes or no...?

I trust the egg doner signed an agreement that they freely donate the egg to the couple and lay no claim on the child?

As that is the case that most reputable IVF clinics would have their diners do..

So in that case the couple that received the doner egg should have custody

It is not just that baby grow in her womb so she's the mother..

If the egg doner never waived her rights, she would have the right to sue for custody ..

Although barring some extra ordinary circumstances, would favor the recipient of the donated egg to be given custody along with the biological father..

As would seem implicit due the donation process that the egg doner did not expect to have custody of the child

[MikeyIdea]

I hope they didnt have to pay anyone......

This wasn't a civil or criminal court, it was a Juvenile court.

Big difference in Thailand

[Scott]

An inflammatory and baiting post and reply have been removed.

Please stay on topic and be civil.

[Johnniey]

Rubbish.....The baby grew inside a lady and gave birth to it, that is what a mother does...

Or you reckon it ain't got one , I think you have just realised my point, every one wants to think it ain't got a mum, isn't that just great for the kid to know when growing up and asks questions...

Nope you are wrong. She incubated the baby, that is all.

As long as the family is loving and caring then the gender of the parents doesn't matter.

Can you back this up with facts?

I'd say, based on limited research that a child brought up by gay parents is more likely to be gay.

Yeah right, you did research.

Garbage.

I don't like your tone.

Children of same sex couples are TWICE as likely to have mental problems.

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience/2015/February/Mental-Problems-More-Likely-for-Kids-with-Gay-Parents

[SoiBiker]

Are you saying that being gay is a mental problem?

[Jingthing]

From a CREDIBLE source, rather than a hate group/Christian fundamentalist anti-GLBT propaganda source:

• • What effect does having LGBT parents have on children?

    Are not more likely to be gay than children with heterosexual parents.
  • Are not more likely to be sexually abused.
  • Do not show differences in whether they think of themselves as male or female (gender identity).
  • Do not show differences in their male and female behaviors (gender role behavior).

http://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Families/FFF-Guide/Children-with-Lesbian-Gay-Bisexual-and-Transgender-Parents-092.aspx

To add, this entire area is LOADED.

Even if was true that children of same sex parents were more often gay which it is NOT ... so what even if it was? Is gay bad? To the bigots, it is, of course, but can't gay people have fulfilled lives? Is a small percentage of gay people any threat at all to our species repopulating? (No, the threats to our species are man made climate change, disease epidemics, and nuclear wars.) If you could show children of African Americans are more likely to be incarcerated (sadly now true) should we not allow African Americans to have children, perhaps sterilize as actually has been done in the past?

Edited April 29, 2016 by Jingthing

[DM07]

I don't like your tone.

Children of same sex couples are TWICE as likely to have mental problems.

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience/2015/February/Mental-Problems-More-Likely-for-Kids-with-Gay-Parents

IF that would be the case, it is most likely not because they have gay parents, but because they are met with prejudice and resentment by gay- haters and bigots!

[Bluespunk]

Can you back this up with facts?

I'd say, based on limited research that a child brought up by gay parents is more likely to be gay.

Yeah right, you did research.

Garbage.

I don't like your tone.

Children of same sex couples are TWICE as likely to have mental problems.

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience/2015/February/Mental-Problems-More-Likely-for-Kids-with-Gay-Parents

I don't care what you think of my tone. Personally I don't like the hate you have been spreading on this thread.

As I said before regarding your research source...garbage.

[Asheron]

Are you saying that being gay is a mental problem?

Is being hetero a mental "problem"? Why of course it is, what else would it be? Surely your left pinky toe nail or your kidney doesn't define you as gay/hetero/whatever.

[DM07]

I don't like your tone.

Children of same sex couples are TWICE as likely to have mental problems.

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience/2015/February/Mental-Problems-More-Likely-for-Kids-with-Gay-Parents

IF that would be the case, it is most likely not because they have gay parents, but because they are met with prejudice and resentment by gay- haters and bigots!

I don't hate gay folk, no reason too......I just don't like kids being made to order to forfill something and have no mum.....

You are childish beyond belief!

I should take the advise, I gave SoiBiker- I have better things to do with my time!

[Jingthing]

You are childish beyond belief!

I should take the advise, I gave SoiBiker- I have better things to do with my time!

The Ignore List is a wonderful feature.

[SoiBiker]

I don't like your tone.

Children of same sex couples are TWICE as likely to have mental problems.

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience/2015/February/Mental-Problems-More-Likely-for-Kids-with-Gay-Parents

IF that would be the case, it is most likely not because they have gay parents, but because they are met with prejudice and resentment by gay- haters and bigots!

I don't hate gay folk, no reason too......I just don't like kids being made to order to forfill something and have no mum.....

Most kids are 'made to order'. Plenty of kids - by your narrow definition - have no mum.

To be honest, I think you're just playing semantic games to justify your prejudice, whilst plugging your ears and ignoring any argument you don't want to hear.

No, I'm not going to explain what 'semantic' means.

[DM07]

I don't like your tone.

Children of same sex couples are TWICE as likely to have mental problems.

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience/2015/February/Mental-Problems-More-Likely-for-Kids-with-Gay-Parents

IF that would be the case, it is most likely not because they have gay parents, but because they are met with prejudice and resentment by gay- haters and bigots!

I don't hate gay folk, no reason too......I just don't like kids being made to order to forfill something and have no mum.....

Most kids are 'made to order'. Plenty of kids - by your narrow definition - have no mum.

To be honest, I think you're just playing semantic games to justify your prejudice, whilst plugging your ears and ignoring any argument you don't want to hear.

No, I'm not going to explain what 'semantic' means.