Israeli forces shoot dead 16-year-old Palestinian boy and his sister

[Jingthing]

Israel's policy regarding this territory is dead wrong. As a consequence it is continuously elevating frustration, tension and fear. Is it any wonder that when these factors come together that death is the result? Usually the death of the Palestinians as they are a bit short on weapons of war.

Sure ... and Palestinian Islamist incitement about the temple mount and crappy Palestinian leadership in general has nothing to do with it.

[Trouble]

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Two Palestinian youths, both armed with knives and apparently bent on killing Israelis, were gunned down after the threat they posed was recognized by the IDF.

EXCUSE ME, BUT WHERE IS THE PROBLEM HERE?

And what is this BS about she (looked) pregnant. First, are you thinking that pregnant women waving a knife can't try to kill someone? And secondly, was that girl married, or just carrying some bastard Palestinian baby without the sanctity of a marriage. What is it with Middle Eastern men wanting sex with underage girls and children. Sick!

Thank God that the IDF have been trained so well. They did their job well, protecting innocent Israeli citizens and others. Palestinians from a young age are taught to hate and kill Jews, Israelis in particular. Sick sick sick f*cks! I look forward to the IDF protecting all people within their borders and acting in a proactive manner to prevent violent Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims from hurting innocent people!

I am reminded here of my two favorite quotes from former Israeli officials:

From Golda Meir, former PM of Israel: "There will never be peace in Israel until Palestinians mothers love their own children more than they hate Jews."

From Abba Eban, former Foreign Affairs Minister, Deputy Prime Minister, Ambassador to the USA and to the UN: "The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss and opportunity."

All of this saddens me and I fear that in my lifetime there will be no peace in this area. And I know exactly who is at fault. Now I expect to get hateful and threatening posts from readers here who simply do not have the intelligence to work for peace. They love the hate, violence, and drama that comes from themselves and their leadership.

Let it begin...

I think for all the self serving rhetoric put out by both sides on the incident one can pretty well assume that the Israeli soldiers seemed to have used excessive force in this matter. As far as condemning the Palestinians for disliking the Israelis and their the of terrorism, one should never forget that the very foundation of Israel was based on terrorism perpetrated on the British, Arabs and others by Jewish groups. Menachem Begin was called a terrorist and a fascist by Albert Einstein and other prominent Jewish intellectuals in 1948. Activities of the Jewish groups and their use of car bombs, terrorism, etc. is well documented but conveniently forgotten by the Israel right or wrong crowd. It might just be that many Palestinians think that the terrorism perpetrated by Jewish groups and which worked for Israel will work for them as well. It is always amazing to me how quickly one forgets history when it is convenient to do so.

[dexterm]

Sorry thread full..

Morch wrote..

Nope. As evident from periodical whinging about IDF actions in Syria and Lebanon. Pretending not to grasp the meaning in which "operational" was meant is grasping at straws. I never claimed the IDF to be the most moral army in the world, and my views on that were aired on previous topics. From grasping at straws to introducing straw-man argument.

The linked interview does not have much to do with either the OP or the insisting that the IDF ought to equip its soldiers with cams. The inability to focus on the topic is acknowledged, not welcomed. But if you wish to bring up irony, then by all means - any Al Jazeera piece dealing with human rights outside of Qatar qualifies.

Just your usual attempt to obfuscate the issues with large doses of hot air.

No pretending at all. The IDF spends most of its time protecting illegal Israeli colonists on land stolen from Palestinians in the West Bank repressing Palestinians there and in Gaza, not in Syria or Lebanon. Of course their activities are operational warranting body cam footage.

In that this whole thread is about the controversy surrounding the OP IDF psychopath's actions the use of video footage would resolve the issue in an instant. The article about the human rights watchgroup Videre est Credere (To See is to Believe) has everything to do with facilitating that, and of course video footage will feature more and more in the future to expose Israeli crimes . The truth is exactly what Israel fears, and what you attempt to hide.

Edited April 28, 2016 by dexterm

[Jingthing]

... It might just be that many Palestinians think that the terrorism perpetrated by Jewish groups and which worked for Israel will work for them as well. ...

Ignoring yet another totally predictable retread of an anti-Israel RANT, how is that working out for them? You know, since 1948 when the Arab/Muslim world first attacked the newly minted State of Israel en masse?

Perhaps another TACTIC would be more productive?

‘The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.’

Possibly attributed to Albert Einstein and possibly not. Such a great genius that my own Yiddische Mama happened to have seen speak live in a pro-Zionist speech.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Jingthing

[AYJAYDEE]

... It might just be that many Palestinians think that the terrorism perpetrated by Jewish groups and which worked for Israel will work for them as well. ...

Ignoring yet another totally predictable retread of an anti-Israel RANT, how is that working out for them? You know, since 1948 when the Arab/Muslim world first attacked the newly minted State of Israel en masse?

Perhaps another TACTIC would be more productive?

‘The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.’

Possibly attributed to Albert Einstein and possibly not. Such a great genius that my own Yiddische Mama happened to have seen speak live in a pro-Zionist speech.

i doubt it.

[Ulysses G.]

As far as condemning the Palestinians for disliking the Israelis and their the of terrorism, one should never forget that the very foundation of Israel was based on terrorism perpetrated on the British, Arabs and others by Jewish groups.

Only one problem with that load of tripe. The Jews were responding to almost 20 years of terrorist attacks by the Arabs and being stabbed in the back by the British. From 1920-1937 every single violent incident was initiated by the Arabs. After all of that, finally, the Jews started striking back and went on to turn the tide and won the war that the Arabs started.

This is a list of killings and massacres committed in Mandatory Palestine. It is restricted to incidents in which at least three people were deliberately killed. This list does not include unlawful deaths due to criminal activity. It includes all casualties that resulted from the initial attack on civilians or non-combat military personnel.

Note: The designation "responsible party" below refers to those believed to be the principle instigators of the violence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine

[AYJAYDEE]

As far as condemning the Palestinians for disliking the Israelis and their the of terrorism, one should never forget that the very foundation of Israel was based on terrorism perpetrated on the British, Arabs and others by Jewish groups.

Only one problem with that load of tripe. The Jews were responding to almost 20 years of terrorist attacks by the Arabs and being stabbed in the back by the British. From 1920-1937 every single violent incident was initiated by the Arabs. After all of that, finally, the Jews started striking back and went on to turn the tide and won the war that the Arabs started.

This is a list of killings and massacres committed in Mandatory Palestine. It is restricted to incidents in which at least three people were deliberately killed. This list does not include unlawful deaths due to criminal activity. It includes all casualties that resulted from the initial attack on civilians or non-combat military personnel.

Note: The designation "responsible party" below refers to those believed to be the principle instigators of the violence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine

yeah, bombing the king david hotel was winning a war with arabs!! lol

[Morch]

Sorry thread full..

Morch wrote..

Nope. As evident from periodical whinging about IDF actions in Syria and Lebanon. Pretending not to grasp the meaning in which "operational" was meant is grasping at straws. I never claimed the IDF to be the most moral army in the world, and my views on that were aired on previous topics. From grasping at straws to introducing straw-man argument.

The linked interview does not have much to do with either the OP or the insisting that the IDF ought to equip its soldiers with cams. The inability to focus on the topic is acknowledged, not welcomed. But if you wish to bring up irony, then by all means - any Al Jazeera piece dealing with human rights outside of Qatar qualifies.

Just your usual attempt to obfuscate the issues with large doses of hot air.

No pretending at all. The IDF spends most of its time protecting illegal Israeli colonists on land stolen from Palestinians in the West Bank repressing Palestinians there and in Gaza, not in Syria or Lebanon. Of course their activities are operational warranting body cam footage.

In that this whole thread is about the controversy surrounding the OP IDF psychopath's actions the use of video footage would resolve the issue in an instant. The article about the human rights watchgroup Videre est Credere (To See is to Believe) has everything to do with facilitating that, and of course video footage will feature more and more in the future to expose Israeli crimes . The truth is exactly what Israel fears, and what you attempt to hide.

The obfuscation and hot air are mostly in your posts, either attempting to present a single biased report as fact or bringing up side issues to serve as main points.

The one bringing up body cams and cctv footage (not mentioned in the OP) as a major point was you.

Satisfying legal or PR needs does not fall under "operational purposes". Operational needs are not the same as legal or PR considerations. Insisting on this bit of nonsense is to be expected when one is grasping at straws, but doesn't alter the facts. Your exact words were "Seems to me Operation Occupy Palestinian Land is the only one the IDF are ever involved in", backtracked above to "most of the time". Same old - contradictory statements and arguments about semantics instead of factual reference to the OP.

The topic is about two Palestinians not following instructions at the pass and consequently getting shot. There is no reference to the mental condition of the soldiers as your repeatedly imply, and the OP is pretty much a bland report rather than carrying the controversial angle and tone you imply. Footage of the incident would not necessarily resolve anything - video footage is often challenged when not in line with posters positions (and the same is true on a global scale).

The desperate claim that I attempt to hide the truth is nothing but, as you're fond of whinging "besmirching". Read my posts again, I do not make concrete claims on events, merely pointing out that your account of events and hyperbole are not grounded in actual facts.

[Ulysses G.]

yeah, bombing the king david hotel was winning a war with arabs!!

Well, they DID win.

The bombing of the British Military H.Q.- the King David Hotel - was a response to a series of widespread raids, including one on the Jewish Agency, conducted by the British authorities. There were THREE separate warning well before the explosion, but the Brits refused to evacuate. The Jewish political leadership condemned the attack.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[AYJAYDEE]

The bombing of the British Military H.Q.- the King David Hotel - was a response to Operation Agatha (a series of widespread raids, including one on the Jewish Agency, conducted by the British authorities). There were THREE separate warning well before the explosion, but the Brits refused to evacuate.

Irgun reports included explicit precautions so that the whole area would be evacuated and the Jewish political leadership condemned the attack.

responding to police actions legally taken by the authorities with bombing is TERRORISM! and it wasnt the only attack on British. irgun and stern were terrorists, no better than the ones Israel whines about today!

[dexterm]

Sorry thread full..

Morch wrote..

Nope. As evident from periodical whinging about IDF actions in Syria and Lebanon. Pretending not to grasp the meaning in which "operational" was meant is grasping at straws. I never claimed the IDF to be the most moral army in the world, and my views on that were aired on previous topics. From grasping at straws to introducing straw-man argument.

The linked interview does not have much to do with either the OP or the insisting that the IDF ought to equip its soldiers with cams. The inability to focus on the topic is acknowledged, not welcomed. But if you wish to bring up irony, then by all means - any Al Jazeera piece dealing with human rights outside of Qatar qualifies.

Just your usual attempt to obfuscate the issues with large doses of hot air.

No pretending at all. The IDF spends most of its time protecting illegal Israeli colonists on land stolen from Palestinians in the West Bank repressing Palestinians there and in Gaza, not in Syria or Lebanon. Of course their activities are operational warranting body cam footage.

In that this whole thread is about the controversy surrounding the OP IDF psychopath's actions the use of video footage would resolve the issue in an instant. The article about the human rights watchgroup Videre est Credere (To See is to Believe) has everything to do with facilitating that, and of course video footage will feature more and more in the future to expose Israeli crimes . The truth is exactly what Israel fears, and what you attempt to hide.

The obfuscation and hot air are mostly in your posts, either attempting to present a single biased report as fact or bringing up side issues to serve as main points.

The one bringing up body cams and cctv footage (not mentioned in the OP) as a major point was you.

Satisfying legal or PR needs does not fall under "operational purposes". Operational needs are not the same as legal or PR considerations. Insisting on this bit of nonsense is to be expected when one is grasping at straws, but doesn't alter the facts. Your exact words were "Seems to me Operation Occupy Palestinian Land is the only one the IDF are ever involved in", backtracked above to "most of the time". Same old - contradictory statements and arguments about semantics instead of factual reference to the OP.

The topic is about two Palestinians not following instructions at the pass and consequently getting shot. There is no reference to the mental condition of the soldiers as your repeatedly imply, and the OP is pretty much a bland report rather than carrying the controversial angle and tone you imply. Footage of the incident would not necessarily resolve anything - video footage is often challenged when not in line with posters positions (and the same is true on a global scale).

The desperate claim that I attempt to hide the truth is nothing but, as you're fond of whinging "besmirching". Read my posts again, I do not make concrete claims on events, merely pointing out that your account of events and hyperbole are not grounded in actual facts.

My suggestion is a major point because it would go a long way to resolving these controversial incidents that Israel constantly finds itself in. You don't appear to want that, and prefer to keep the truth hidden. The video footage in another recent incident revealed what is usually swept under the carpet.

Para 3 When is an operation not an operation? The usual nitpicking pedantry.

Para 4

>>The topic is about two Palestinians not following instructions at the pass and consequently getting shot.

What right have these invading illegally occupying Israeli thugs to shoot dead a pregnant Palestinian woman and her younger brother walking down a road in their own land? That's a war crime. What the hell were the trespassing soldiers doing there in the first place? You imply these monsters somehow have the right to murder Palestinians for failing to follow instructions in their own land.

>>There is no reference to the mental condition of the soldiers as your repeatedly imply.

His actions speak for themselves. What sort of person pumps 15 bullets into a pregnant woman and her teenage brother, who had done him no physical harm. That's a psychopath.

>> the OP is pretty much a bland report

Yes, murdering Palestinians in cold blood is par for the course under the illegal Israeli occupation.I notice no condolences offered for the two young children now orphaned by the Israeli thug. So don't demand them from me as you usually do the next time an illegal fanatical Israeli colonist or IDF gets killed.

Edited April 29, 2016 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

irgun and stern were terrorists, no better than the ones Israel whines about today!

Really? How often do Hamas give warnings to leave the area before setting off a bomb?

You don't seem bothered by 17 years of terrorist attacks by the Arabs BEFORE the King David.That is called hypocrisy.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[AYJAYDEE]

irgun and stern were terrorists, no better than the ones Israel whines about today!

Really? How often do Hamas give warnings to leave the area before setting off a bomb?

You don't seem bothered by 17 years of terrorist attacks by the Arabs BEFORE the King David.That is called hypocrisy.

I don't? you have no idea whats bothers me and what doesn't. but that rarely worries folks like you.

[Morch]

Sorry thread full..

Morch wrote..

Nope. As evident from periodical whinging about IDF actions in Syria and Lebanon. Pretending not to grasp the meaning in which "operational" was meant is grasping at straws. I never claimed the IDF to be the most moral army in the world, and my views on that were aired on previous topics. From grasping at straws to introducing straw-man argument.

The linked interview does not have much to do with either the OP or the insisting that the IDF ought to equip its soldiers with cams. The inability to focus on the topic is acknowledged, not welcomed. But if you wish to bring up irony, then by all means - any Al Jazeera piece dealing with human rights outside of Qatar qualifies.

Just your usual attempt to obfuscate the issues with large doses of hot air.

No pretending at all. The IDF spends most of its time protecting illegal Israeli colonists on land stolen from Palestinians in the West Bank repressing Palestinians there and in Gaza, not in Syria or Lebanon. Of course their activities are operational warranting body cam footage.

In that this whole thread is about the controversy surrounding the OP IDF psychopath's actions the use of video footage would resolve the issue in an instant. The article about the human rights watchgroup Videre est Credere (To See is to Believe) has everything to do with facilitating that, and of course video footage will feature more and more in the future to expose Israeli crimes . The truth is exactly what Israel fears, and what you attempt to hide.

The obfuscation and hot air are mostly in your posts, either attempting to present a single biased report as fact or bringing up side issues to serve as main points.

The one bringing up body cams and cctv footage (not mentioned in the OP) as a major point was you.

Satisfying legal or PR needs does not fall under "operational purposes". Operational needs are not the same as legal or PR considerations. Insisting on this bit of nonsense is to be expected when one is grasping at straws, but doesn't alter the facts. Your exact words were "Seems to me Operation Occupy Palestinian Land is the only one the IDF are ever involved in", backtracked above to "most of the time". Same old - contradictory statements and arguments about semantics instead of factual reference to the OP.

The topic is about two Palestinians not following instructions at the pass and consequently getting shot. There is no reference to the mental condition of the soldiers as your repeatedly imply, and the OP is pretty much a bland report rather than carrying the controversial angle and tone you imply. Footage of the incident would not necessarily resolve anything - video footage is often challenged when not in line with posters positions (and the same is true on a global scale).

The desperate claim that I attempt to hide the truth is nothing but, as you're fond of whinging "besmirching". Read my posts again, I do not make concrete claims on events, merely pointing out that your account of events and hyperbole are not grounded in actual facts.

My suggestion is a major point because it would go a long way to resolving these controversial incidents that Israel constantly finds itself in. You don't appear to want that, and prefer to keep the truth hidden. The video footage in another recent incident revealed what is usually swept under the carpet.

Para 3 When is an operation not an operation? The usual nitpicking pedantry.

Para 4

>>The topic is about two Palestinians not following instructions at the pass and consequently getting shot.

What right have these invading illegally occupying Israeli thugs to shoot dead a pregnant Palestinian woman and her younger brother walking down a road in their own land? That's a war crime. What the hell were the trespassing soldiers doing there in the first place? You imply these monsters somehow have the right to murder Palestinians for failing to follow instructions in their own land.

>>There is no reference to the mental condition of the soldiers as your repeatedly imply.

His actions speak for themselves. What sort of person pumps 15 bullets into a pregnant woman and her teenage brother, who had done him no physical harm. That's a psychopath.

>> the OP is pretty much a bland report

Yes, murdering Palestinians in cold blood is par for the course under the illegal Israeli occupation.I notice no condolences offered for the two young children now orphaned by the Israeli thug. So don't demand them from me as you usually do the next time an illegal fanatical Israeli colonist or IDF gets killed.

Your "suggestion" is not even mentioned in the OP, and making it into a focal issue merely serves as a platform to air your well-known views. That penchant for derailing topics while whinging about obfuscation.

Video footage relevant to conflict situations is rarely readily accepted as conclusive. There are numerous topics on TVF where this could be observed. By the way, I did not even take the position that there should not be such coverage - this is just another poor attempt at demagoguery. Objective criticism of your posts does not amount to wishing to "keep the truth hidden". But do go on whinging about "besmirching", by all means, surely to be followed by further whinging when double standards will be brought up.

The nitpicking regarding "operational" was started by yourself, I have made the sense in which it was meant clear.

The topic is indeed about two Palestinian being shot by Israeli security forces at pass, after not following instructions. If you have issues with the OP not including your own brand of inflammatory rhetoric, or not expounding on the entirety of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, take it up with the relevant editor. I did not make any such claims or implications as you suggested. My views on the Israeli occupation are well documented on many a previous topics, as you are well aware.

With all due respect to your diagnostic prowess, may I point out that whinging about the actions of the soldier, while repeatedly justifying any form of Palestinian violence (yes, even directed at civilians, children and women) is yet another instance of hypocrisy and double standards.

The OP being bland is not my responsibility. It was simply pointed out as a contrast to the way and tone in which you attempt to present things. Could be wrong, but if memory serves, the rather uncommon instances were I did actually bring up the condolences thing were in response to such whinging originating in your posts. Also, I am not the one often claiming to be a great humanist etc....thought that implied not differentiating between casualties but guess I got it wrong.

[dexterm]

@Morch

I regarded my suggestion as relevant to the OP because it might serve to decrease such incidents in future when both sides know that Big Brother is watching them. So it is not off topic, as some of the posts from the Israeli apologists on this thread are, referring to events of 100 years ago. It is you who is making it a focal issue by obsessively carping about it. My post would have disppeared down the thread if it had gone without comment.

Para 3 In that you agree that the Israeli occupation of the West Bank is illegal. It follows that the actions of the IDF thug who murdered the siblings is illegal.

Para 4 No hypocrisy. Israel is the illegal invading occupier. Palestinians are the victims who are being occupied.

Para 5 Yes, you are wrong. You accused me of not offering condolences to some Israeli Jews attacked in Tel Aviv, when I had already done so. No such condolences from you or any other of the Israeli apologists for the two orphaned Palestinian children. Double standards.

Edited April 29, 2016 by dexterm

[Thorgal]

Perhaps if she want carrying the contents of the family knife drawer she wouldn't have panicked, or is that standard fare for someone on their way to a doctors appointment?

The Palestinian 'knife attack' syndrome has been debunked so many times here on TV.

All of the knife attacks were coincidentally perpetrated in cities were new illegal Israeli settlements are built.

No attacks in coastal cities around Gaza, Haifa, Jaffa, Ashkelon,etc...

No attacks around the Sinai desert.

No attacks at the border cities close to Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordania.

Latest new illegal Israeli settlements are planned or already built in (East) Jerusalem, Hebron, Jenin, Betlehem, Ramallah,...: coincidentally all attacks with knifes originated from those affected regions.

If knife attacks equals rage, frustration and revolt, we have to conclude that the Palestinian anger is geographically conditionated...

The certainty in which this nonsense is posted....almost endearing:

American Graduate Student Killed in Stabbing Rampage Near Tel Aviv

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/09/world/middleeast/jaffa-israel-stabbing-attacks.html?_r=0

70-year-old Man Stabbed in Netanya; Three People Hurt in Rishon Letzion Attack

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.683774

To point out a few examples. There goes "debunked".

No attacks around the Sinai desert? Kinda figures as it is under Egypt's control for quite some time now.

No attacks around Gaza? Gee...might have something to do with having a fenced border and army presence.

Most attacks being carried out in the West Bank and Jerusalem is a function of access, nothing more.

You've just provided 2 examples of Palestinian knife attackers who reside in the West Bank, close to illegal Israeli settlements. Which is statistically not correct...and not supporting my relevant post.

Moreover, the majority of the knife attacks are grouped around the cities of Joseph's Tomb, the Old City of East Jerusalem, Rachel's Tomb and the Cave of Patriarchs.

My previous post can be confirmed and visualised through this interactive terror map of 2016.

https://openaccess9000.cartodb.com/viz/3459b348-8212-11e5-b022-0e8c56e2ffdb/embed_map

Edited April 29, 2016 by Thorgal

[Galactus]

stealing, murdering, oppression, unlawfulness, rogue state = Israel.

a pregnant lady wants to attack Israeli soldiers with a boy! who believes that? why gas canisters for press? fear of getting recorded for another judicial murder?

again a clear judicial murder by IDF dogs and their masters holding the leashes of these dogs.

i mean that is what they can do, murdering ladies, kids but i see no efforts from Israel to do something for ISIS?

Maybe they dont have balls or maybe they are not man enough and attack ladies and boys?

Israel soldiers are that pussies to fear that much from a knife while wearing bullet proof vests and US guns.

sad to say that but Israel and ISIS are not different IMO. both murderers and both killing people in the name of religion, both steal land. one is islamofascist and other is judeofascist.

only difference is US and UN and Europe do nothing to prevent oppression of rogue state Israel and while they do every way to kill ISIS problem.

Israel will never stop until they grab a large chunk of Middle East and until they kill most of Muslim population to change the demographics claiming that they have knives!

so do others have the right to attack Israeli soldiers bc they are holding guns and they are terrorists of a rogue state called Israel if we think through the same logic?

Edited April 29, 2016 by Galactus

[Jingthing]

Cheers to the Soldiers and they got the future terrorist, too! Job Well Done!

As a supporter of the right of Israel to exist and defend itself against it's many enemies including "BDS" and online propaganda, I strongly condemn that abhorrent comment.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Jingthing

[Rimmer]

A troll post has been removed

[Steely Dan]

stealing, murdering, oppression, unlawfulness, rogue state = Israel.

a pregnant lady wants to attack Israeli soldiers with a boy! who believes that? why gas canisters for press? fear of getting recorded for another judicial murder?

again a clear judicial murder by IDF dogs and their masters holding the leashes of these dogs.

i mean that is what they can do, murdering ladies, kids but i see no efforts from Israel to do something for ISIS?

Maybe they dont have balls or maybe they are not man enough and attack ladies and boys?

Israel soldiers are that pussies to fear that much from a knife while wearing bullet proof vests and US guns.

sad to say that but Israel and ISIS are not different IMO. both murderers and both killing people in the name of religion, both steal land. one is islamofascist and other is judeofascist.

only difference is US and UN and Europe do nothing to prevent oppression of rogue state Israel and while they do every way to kill ISIS problem.

Israel will never stop until they grab a large chunk of Middle East and until they kill most of Muslim population to change the demographics claiming that they have knives!

so do others have the right to attack Israeli soldiers bc they are holding guns and they are terrorists of a rogue state called Israel if we think through the same logic?

Your usual inflammatory counter-factual garbage misses the fact that Palestinians systematically train children or those likely to garner the sympathy of gullible liberals to put themselves in harms way for the propaganda value. Pregnant women are a nice touch straight out of the M.O of Palestinian leaders with the morals of hyenas. Of course their keyboard enablers hammer away trying to get the Israelis to put more restrictive measures on the conduct of their troops. If they succeed the next apparently pregnant woman will really be packing Semtex as sure as night follows day.

[Thorgal]

stealing, murdering, oppression, unlawfulness, rogue state = Israel.

a pregnant lady wants to attack Israeli soldiers with a boy! who believes that? why gas canisters for press? fear of getting recorded for another judicial murder?

again a clear judicial murder by IDF dogs and their masters holding the leashes of these dogs.

i mean that is what they can do, murdering ladies, kids but i see no efforts from Israel to do something for ISIS?

Maybe they dont have balls or maybe they are not man enough and attack ladies and boys?

Israel soldiers are that pussies to fear that much from a knife while wearing bullet proof vests and US guns.

sad to say that but Israel and ISIS are not different IMO. both murderers and both killing people in the name of religion, both steal land. one is islamofascist and other is judeofascist.

only difference is US and UN and Europe do nothing to prevent oppression of rogue state Israel and while they do every way to kill ISIS problem.

Israel will never stop until they grab a large chunk of Middle East and until they kill most of Muslim population to change the demographics claiming that they have knives!

so do others have the right to attack Israeli soldiers bc they are holding guns and they are terrorists of a rogue state called Israel if we think through the same logic?

Your usual inflammatory counter-factual garbage misses the fact that Palestinians systematically train children or those likely to garner the sympathy of gullible liberals to put themselves in harms way for the propaganda value. Pregnant women are a nice touch straight out of the M.O of Palestinian leaders with the morals of hyenas. Of course their keyboard enablers hammer away trying to get the Israelis to put more restrictive measures on the conduct of their troops. If they succeed the next apparently pregnant woman will really be packing Semtex as sure as night follows day.

Every (pregnant) Palestinian women are scared of Israeli checkpoints for the following reasons : between 2000 and 2005, 67 Palestinian mothers were forced to give birth at Israeli military checkpoints. 36 babies died...

Victim of OP was on her way for checkup to a doctor in Jerusalem.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Thorgal

[Morch]

@Morch

I regarded my suggestion as relevant to the OP because it might serve to decrease such incidents in future when both sides know that Big Brother is watching them. So it is not off topic, as some of the posts from the Israeli apologists on this thread are, referring to events of 100 years ago. It is you who is making it a focal issue by obsessively carping about it. My post would have disppeared down the thread if it had gone without comment.

Para 3 In that you agree that the Israeli occupation of the West Bank is illegal. It follows that the actions of the IDF thug who murdered the siblings is illegal.

Para 4 No hypocrisy. Israel is the illegal invading occupier. Palestinians are the victims who are being occupied.

Para 5 Yes, you are wrong. You accused me of not offering condolences to some Israeli Jews attacked in Tel Aviv, when I had already done so. No such condolences from you or any other of the Israeli apologists for the two orphaned Palestinian children. Double standards.

I'm sure that you would love nothing more than posts airing your views without any criticism offered. Can't accommodate you there. I did not say it was off topic, but that it was not central to the issue. The resulting exchange stems from your insistence that my words mean something other than intended (re "operational"). Attempting to turn the tables by claiming "nitpicking" when lacking reasonable answers is a habit by now. My view on the pseudo-historical exchanges often read on this topics is well known - take up your relevant issues with other posters.

I do not agree, as you are surely aware, with most simplistic representations of the conflict. I also do not share some posters passion for inflammatory and emotive rhetoric. The Israeli occupation is a fact, and its continuation is the product of ongoing intransigence by both sides. My view is that (roughly speaking, for staying on-topic purposes) while the actions of a country (as in decisions by political leaders) can be internationally be deemed illegal, that does not always hold true for each and every action taken by forces on the ground. Obviously, not all countries submit to international views in all matters, and unless mistaken, most countries shield their soldiers from prosecution by foreign powers.

Being occupied does not imply a moral carte blanche. Guess we have different takes on humanism and idealism (often things you self proclaim). There are many ways to struggle against occupation and oppression, picking violence is a choice, not a must. Applying moral judgements on the basis of nationality, religion or ethnicity does not seem a position often held by idealists or humanists.

Re condolences - not quite. Back then your claim was that all Israelis are legitimate targets. After some debate, it was conceded that this might not apply to unarmed elderly Israeli civilians stabbed while praying in Tel Aviv. But even then, the Palestinian was let off the moral hook by hypothetical claims about his supposed mental state. And again, I never claimed to be a great humanist, as you often do. With great self-congratulation comes.....something which seems to lack here.

[Morch]

Perhaps if she want carrying the contents of the family knife drawer she wouldn't have panicked, or is that standard fare for someone on their way to a doctors appointment?

The Palestinian 'knife attack' syndrome has been debunked so many times here on TV.

All of the knife attacks were coincidentally perpetrated in cities were new illegal Israeli settlements are built.

No attacks in coastal cities around Gaza, Haifa, Jaffa, Ashkelon,etc...

No attacks around the Sinai desert.

No attacks at the border cities close to Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordania.

Latest new illegal Israeli settlements are planned or already built in (East) Jerusalem, Hebron, Jenin, Betlehem, Ramallah,...: coincidentally all attacks with knifes originated from those affected regions.

If knife attacks equals rage, frustration and revolt, we have to conclude that the Palestinian anger is geographically conditionated...

The certainty in which this nonsense is posted....almost endearing:

American Graduate Student Killed in Stabbing Rampage Near Tel Aviv

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/09/world/middleeast/jaffa-israel-stabbing-attacks.html?_r=0

70-year-old Man Stabbed in Netanya; Three People Hurt in Rishon Letzion Attack

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.683774

To point out a few examples. There goes "debunked".

No attacks around the Sinai desert? Kinda figures as it is under Egypt's control for quite some time now.

No attacks around Gaza? Gee...might have something to do with having a fenced border and army presence.

Most attacks being carried out in the West Bank and Jerusalem is a function of access, nothing more.

You've just provided 2 examples of Palestinian knife attackers who reside in the West Bank, close to illegal Israeli settlements. Which is statistically not correct...and not supporting my relevant post.

Moreover, the majority of the knife attacks are grouped around the cities of Joseph's Tomb, the Old City of East Jerusalem, Rachel's Tomb and the Cave of Patriarchs.

My previous post can be confirmed and visualised through this interactive terror map of 2016.

https://openaccess9000.cartodb.com/viz/3459b348-8212-11e5-b022-0e8c56e2ffdb/embed_map

You posted "All of the knife attacks were coincidentally perpetrated in cities were new illegal Israeli settlements are built." I posted links to two instances detailing three different attacks which occurred well within Israel proper (and thanks for Dexterm bringing up yet another). Unless you either meant something completely different, the original statement is incorrect.

The majority of attacks occurring in the West Bank is a function of access. Most Palestinians do not have access to Israel, apart from those carrying work permits. Work permits are usually given following certain demographics and security screening. If anything this amplifies both the usefulness of having a security barrier between the sides (even following a future agreement), the problems caused by Israeli illegal settler presence in the West Bank, and the Palestinian dependence on Israel's economy.

Your link does not imply anything different, nor does it provide support to the claim that "All of the knife attacks were coincidentally perpetrated in cities were new illegal Israeli settlements are built.".

[Steely Dan]

stealing, murdering, oppression, unlawfulness, rogue state = Israel.

a pregnant lady wants to attack Israeli soldiers with a boy! who believes that? why gas canisters for press? fear of getting recorded for another judicial murder?

again a clear judicial murder by IDF dogs and their masters holding the leashes of these dogs.

i mean that is what they can do, murdering ladies, kids but i see no efforts from Israel to do something for ISIS?

Maybe they dont have balls or maybe they are not man enough and attack ladies and boys?

Israel soldiers are that pussies to fear that much from a knife while wearing bullet proof vests and US guns.

sad to say that but Israel and ISIS are not different IMO. both murderers and both killing people in the name of religion, both steal land. one is islamofascist and other is judeofascist.

only difference is US and UN and Europe do nothing to prevent oppression of rogue state Israel and while they do every way to kill ISIS problem.

Israel will never stop until they grab a large chunk of Middle East and until they kill most of Muslim population to change the demographics claiming that they have knives!

so do others have the right to attack Israeli soldiers bc they are holding guns and they are terrorists of a rogue state called Israel if we think through the same logic?

Your usual inflammatory counter-factual garbage misses the fact that Palestinians systematically train children or those likely to garner the sympathy of gullible liberals to put themselves in harms way for the propaganda value. Pregnant women are a nice touch straight out of the M.O of Palestinian leaders with the morals of hyenas. Of course their keyboard enablers hammer away trying to get the Israelis to put more restrictive measures on the conduct of their troops. If they succeed the next apparently pregnant woman will really be packing Semtex as sure as night follows day.

Every (pregnant) Palestinian women are scared of Israeli checkpoints for the following reasons : between 2000 and 2005, 67 Palestinian mothers were forced to give birth at Israeli military checkpoints. 36 babies died...

Victim of OP was on her way for checkup to a doctor in Jerusalem.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1461929056.858933.jpg

Try googling pregnant Palestinian suicide bomber and take your pick. Can't yet find an emotive graphic to illustrate it though.

[Morch]

@Thorgal

2000-2005 were the years when the Second Intifada raged. During these years there were around 140 suicide bomb attacks, resulting in about 600 casualties, Among them pregnant women and children. Some of these suicide attacks were carried out by Palestinian women.

Referring to figures of similar incidents from times when tensions were not running as high would better support whatever point you were trying to make.

Also - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/913275-israeli-forces-shoot-dead-16-year-old-palestinian-boy-and-his-sister/?p=10688089

[Thorgal]

@Thorgal

2000-2005 were the years when the Second Intifada raged. During these years there were around 140 suicide bomb attacks, resulting in about 600 casualties, Among them pregnant women and children. Some of these suicide attacks were carried out by Palestinian women.

Referring to figures of similar incidents from times when tensions were not running as high would better support whatever point you were trying to make.

Also - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/913275-israeli-forces-shoot-dead-16-year-old-palestinian-boy-and-his-sister/?p=10688089

Israeli collective punishment to the Palestinian citizens started long before 1948. Apparently there's no exception in this collective punishment for Palestinian children, (pregnant) women, the elderly and even disabled persons.

Pinpointing the previous intifada's is off topic and just another attempt of pushing in vain a fallacy of false comparison.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Thorgal

[Morch]

@Thorgal

2000-2005 were the years when the Second Intifada raged. During these years there were around 140 suicide bomb attacks, resulting in about 600 casualties, Among them pregnant women and children. Some of these suicide attacks were carried out by Palestinian women.

Referring to figures of similar incidents from times when tensions were not running as high would better support whatever point you were trying to make.

Also - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/913275-israeli-forces-shoot-dead-16-year-old-palestinian-boy-and-his-sister/?p=10688089

Israeli collective punishment to the Palestinian citizens started long before 1948. Apparently there's no exception in this collective punishment for Palestinian children, (pregnant) women, the elderly and even disabled persons.

Pinpointing the previous intifada's is off topic and just another attempt of pushing in vain a fallacy of false comparison.

Israel was not around prior to 1948, certainly not "long before". Violence was not one-sided even back then, though. try again.

You are the one who pinpointed years ("between 2000 and 2005...")

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/913275-israeli-forces-shoot-dead-16-year-old-palestinian-boy-and-his-sister/?p=10693285

I merely supplemented the relevant and conspicuously missing backdrop. Do try to keep up with your own posts.

(, I merely suppllinked to an image specifing