Treatment for gallstones - Any recent experiences?

[RichardThailand]

My girlfriend has been told she has gallstones. They are not causing her any problems at the moment but I'd like to know of what options we have in case something does come up.

Has anyone recently had treatment / had gallstones removed?

Also does anyone know anything about the treatments / pills for reducing the size of stones. I heard of Ursodiol and Ursa but can't seem to find any place where I can get those drugs in Bangkok.

Edited April 28, 2016 by RichardThailand

[BritManToo]

Around 40% of the population have gallstones and never suffer any ill effects.

If they give no problem, you just forget about them.

If they do cause problems

Treatment is not by removing the gallstones, but removing the gall bladder entirely.

They aren't stones but mostly lumps of cholesterol in assorted sizes.

The Thai doctors usually want to cut out the gall bladder right away, but there are alternatives.

The problem is when a small gallstone blocks the bile duct, the bile duct quickly becomes infected.

If it isn't treated at the first signs with antibiotics the gall bladder can die, even though the blockage has passed.

So what you do, always keep Moxcillin 500 in store. First sign of trouble start taking them.

5 day course costs 50bht. (ten tablets, 1 morning, 1 evening for 5 days), any broad spectrum anti will do the trick.

your gall bladder can die in 24hrs if the condition is untreated.

Long term treatment

Stop drinking all soft drinks, no coke, no pepsi, no alcohol.

Stop eating sugar and all processed foods.

Regular exercise.

Edited April 28, 2016 by BritManToo

[Hedghog]

Last year had gallstones in the bile duct.

They were removed using an endoscope technique.

General anaesthetic.

I still have my gall bladder.

The gall bladder is now stone free.

It also must be said some gallstones pass through the body causing no syptoms whatsoever.

[RichardThailand]

Last year had gallstones in the bile duct.

They were removed using an endoscope technique.

General anaesthetic.

I still have my gall bladder.

The gall bladder is now stone free.

It also must be said some gallstones pass through the body causing no syptoms whatsoever.

Where did you have this procedure done?

[BritManToo]

The gall bladder is now stone free.

If you haven't drastically changed your lifestyle, I would suspect your gall bladder would already be full of gallstones again. It takes 3-6 months for your body to replace them, which is most doctors don't remove them, it's considered futile.

Edited April 28, 2016 by BritManToo

[RichardThailand]

Around 40% of the population have gallstones and never suffer any ill effects.

If they give no problem, you just forget about them.

If they do cause problems

Treatment is not by removing the gallstones, but removing the gall bladder entirely.

They aren't stones but mostly lumps of cholesterol in assorted sizes.

The Thai doctors usually want to cut out the gall bladder right away, but there are alternatives.

The problem is when a small gallstone blocks the bile duct, the bile duct quickly becomes infected.

If it isn't treated at the first signs with antibiotics the gall bladder can die, even though the blockage has passed.

So what you do, always keep Moxcillin 500 in store. First sign of trouble start taking them.

5 day course costs 50bht. (ten tablets, 1 morning, 1 evening for 5 days), any broad spectrum anti will do the trick.

your gall bladder can die in 24hrs if the condition is untreated.

Long term treatment

Stop drinking all soft drinks, no coke, no pepsi, no alcohol.

Stop eating sugar and all processed foods.

Regular exercise.

Thanks, She is now doing everything you suggest in the long term treatment. I'm still interested in knowing if anyone has tried Ursa. It looks like a possibility just to remove the stones that she has.

http://www.ndrugs.com/?s=ursa

[BritManToo]

No,

The gallstones are a symptom of your body failing to cope with your lifestyle.

Ursa may help if your body is temporarily producing gallstones due to sudden weight loss, usually through dieting.

But that isn't the cause of gallstones for most people.

Edited April 28, 2016 by BritManToo

[RichardThailand]

No,

The gallstones are a symptom of your body failing to cope with your lifestyle.

Ursa may help if your body is temporarily producing gallstones due to sudden weight loss, usually through dieting.

But that isn't the cause of gallstones for most people.

I'm hoping some significant lifestyle changes can help her. She already has made many changes in the last few years and cut out all soda drinks and a lot of the fried food she was eating. Now she's looking into making more changes, exercise and a new diet. It might help that I try very hard to have a good diet and cut out everything you mention years ago as well as I do a lot of exercise. Hoping she will follow that regime now also.

I tried to get Ursa but have not yet found anywhere to get it here in BKK. I'll make another post to see if anyone knows where to get it. If possible I am hoping she could clear up or at least slightly reduce any stones she has.

[johnatong]

Your girlfriend should take note of what she is advised by her Doctor(s)

Self medication is not a good idea.

[marcofunny]

to treat gallstones, you must do the following.

1 - reduce your cholesterol levels by 50%.

2 - take Ursolin medication (Ursodeoxycholic Acid) 2 pills a day which helps melting down the stones.

3 - drink daily a glass of organic Apple cider vinegar diluted with 100% real apple juice, it relieves instant pains and helps removing the stones.

4 - drink after each oily meal a glass of a freshly squeezed lemon diluted with some water( no sugar added).

follow this treatment for at least 4 months, I don't recommend any operation its side effects outweighs its benefits.

Edited April 29, 2016 by marcofunny

[dddave]

What are the usual symptoms of both gallstone problems in general and bile duct blockage?

[marcofunny]

What are the usual symptoms of both gallstone problems in general and bile duct blockage?

• Severe abdominal pain
• Pain that may extend beneath the right shoulder blade or to the back
• Pain that worsens after eating a meal, particularly fatty or greasy foods
• Pain that feels dull, sharp, or crampy
• Pain that increases when you breathe in deeply

since it s harmless if you drink the apple cider solution and your pains stops then it s a clear indication that your problems are gallstones, there is a scientific proof that apple cider vinegar dissolves liver stones / gallstones.

Edited April 29, 2016 by marcofunny

[BritManToo]

What are the usual symptoms of both gallstone problems in general and bile duct blockage?

Gall stone problems

Acid reflux (aka heartburn)over a period of years (in my case 5 years of guzzling Galveston evenings), leading eventually to

Blocked bile duct and gall bladder infection

Extreme continuous pain in the right hand side of stomach just under the lowest rib (you can't stand straight).

This is often misdiagnosed as appendicitis.

Retching and vomiting, you know when the blockage is clear because you vomit green bile.

But that doesn't cure the infection, just the cause.

Leading to necrotic gall bladder (24-36hrs) then death (3-7 days).

They don't know why a temporary blockage of the bile duct invariably and quickly causes an infection. It just does.

But you need to remember, having gall stones is not the problem, without symptoms you'd never know.

How did these get found in your Gf, if some random check-up, forget it, they may never harm her!

PS

The vinegar and oil is complete BS. Oil + vinegar Does absolutely nothing but form fatty lumps in your pooh, which some fools mistakenly think are gall stones coming out. Marcofunny has been taken in by quacks, almost nothing he has posted is legit.

Edited April 29, 2016 by BritManToo

[marcofunny]

PS

The vinegar and oil is complete BS. Oil + vinegar Does absolutely nothing but form fatty lumps in your pooh, which some fools mistakenly think are gall stones coming out. Marcofunny has been taken in by quacks, almost nothing he has posted is legit.

I have given the apple cider remedy to a cousin of mine who has similar condition and his pains always calmed, since cider and lemon juice contains acids just like (Ursolic acid) , this guy did an experiment where he puts real gallstones in vinegar solution and the stones started to dissolve.

Edited April 29, 2016 by marcofunny

[Sheryl]

Gallstones are frequently asymptomstic and quite a large number of people have them without even knowing it. Asymptomatic gallstones do not require treatment and more harm than good is likely to result from unnecessarily treating them especially if self treating.

Obstruction of the common bile duct causes very acute illness and will not be missed.

A lot of quack nonsense has been posted on this thread. Consumption of vinegar, lemon juice etc alters the pH only in the GI tract and urine. It does not cause the bile stored in the GB to become acidic.

As it sounds like the stones were just an incidental finding and she is asymptomatic, the best approach is no treatment as I expect she was already told. Long term dietary changes may help prevent future stone formation. Note that gallstones are not actually stones.

[marcofunny]

A lot of quack nonsense has been posted on this thread. Consumption of vinegar, lemon juice etc alters the pH only in the GI tract and urine. It does not cause the bile stored in the GB to become acidic.

explains to me then why doctors prescribe Ursodeoxycholic acid to treat it ?? if acids have no effects ?

[marcofunny]

also switching to a strict vegetarian diet and reducing the daily sodium intake (salt) will speed up dramatically the dissolve process since the Gallstones contains salt and cholesterol, another important info the bile acid is a metabolic byproducts of intestinal bacteria since most Thai don't eat authentic Greek style yogurt, they lack crucially the number of the useful bacteria that produces this useful acid, 98% of Thai yogurts contains too much rice or coconut milk.

Edited April 29, 2016 by marcofunny

[nahkbin]

I have had gall stones for many years. I had some discomfort in the past but I have not had any problems with them recently.

I take 1 tablespoon of apple cider vinegar mixed with 1 tablespoon on pure honey, diluted with about 4 ounces of water every day.

Simple solution to keeping the problems at bay.

[johnatong]

also switching to a strict vegetarian diet and reducing the daily sodium intake (salt) will speed up dramatically the dissolve process since the Gallstones contains salt and cholesterol, another important info the bile acid is a metabolic byproducts of intestinal bacteria since most Thai don't eat authentic Greek style yogurt, they lack crucially the number of the useful bacteria that produces this useful acid, 98% of Thai yogurts contains too much rice or coconut milk.

Links please to the metabolic pathways that turn "metabolic byproducts of intestinal bacteria" into bile 'acid.'

Any link to a reputed text book or a published scientific paper would be appreciated.

[Sheryl]

A lot of quack nonsense has been posted on this thread. Consumption of vinegar, lemon juice etc alters the pH only in the GI tract and urine. It does not cause the bile stored in the GB to become acidic.

explains to me then why doctors prescribe Ursodeoxycholic acid to treat it ?? if acids have no effects ?

Ursodeooxychlic acid works by suppresses production and secretion of cholesterol in the liver. (Gallstones actually being blobs of cholesterol, not stones).

Nothing whatsoever to do with acidity.

[marcofunny]

also switching to a strict vegetarian diet and reducing the daily sodium intake (salt) will speed up dramatically the dissolve process since the Gallstones contains salt and cholesterol, another important info the bile acid is a metabolic byproducts of intestinal bacteria since most Thai don't eat authentic Greek style yogurt, they lack crucially the number of the useful bacteria that produces this useful acid, 98% of Thai yogurts contains too much rice or coconut milk.

Links please to the metabolic pathways that turn "metabolic byproducts of intestinal bacteria" into bile 'acid.'

Any link to a reputed text book or a published scientific paper would be appreciated.

https://books.google.fr/books?id=x-lyocok9v4C&pg=PA147&lpg=PA147&dq=metabolic+byproducts+of+intestinal+bacteria&source=bl&ots=DElY-Tdebp&sig=sfRBuFCU8AxoAO1NTHgdwhRuw68&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQ4daQ9LPMAhUHsJQKHQBcCjcQ6AEIJTAB#v=onepage&q=metabolic%20byproducts%20of%20intestinal%20bacteria&f=false

[Hedghog]

Last year had gallstones in the bile duct.

They were removed using an endoscope technique.

General anaesthetic.

I still have my gall bladder.

The gall bladder is now stone free.

It also must be said some gallstones pass through the body causing no syptoms whatsoever.

Where did you have this procedure done?

Phitsanulok

[Hedghog]

The gall bladder is now stone free.

If you haven't drastically changed your lifestyle, I would suspect your gall bladder would already be full of gallstones again. It takes 3-6 months for your body to replace them, which is most doctors don't remove them, it's considered futile.

I will go with the CT scan and Utrasound results.

Along with my Consultants opinion.

[johnatong]

also switching to a strict vegetarian diet and reducing the daily sodium intake (salt) will speed up dramatically the dissolve process since the Gallstones contains salt and cholesterol, another important info the bile acid is a metabolic byproducts of intestinal bacteria since most Thai don't eat authentic Greek style yogurt, they lack crucially the number of the useful bacteria that produces this useful acid, 98% of Thai yogurts contains too much rice or coconut milk.

Links please to the metabolic pathways that turn "metabolic byproducts of intestinal bacteria" into bile 'acid.'

Any link to a reputed text book or a published scientific paper would be appreciated.

https://books.google.fr/books?id=x-lyocok9v4C&pg=PA147&lpg=PA147&dq=metabolic+byproducts+of+intestinal+bacteria&source=bl&ots=DElY-Tdebp&sig=sfRBuFCU8AxoAO1NTHgdwhRuw68&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQ4daQ9LPMAhUHsJQKHQBcCjcQ6AEIJTAB#v=onepage&q=metabolic%20byproducts%20of%20intestinal%20bacteria&f=false

I am aware of the role of gut bacteria but that link does not answer my question or support the claim you made.

[marcofunny]

A lot of quack nonsense has been posted on this thread. Consumption of vinegar, lemon juice etc alters the pH only in the GI tract and urine. It does not cause the bile stored in the GB to become acidic.

explains to me then why doctors prescribe Ursodeoxycholic acid to treat it ?? if acids have no effects ?

Ursodeooxychlic acid works by suppresses production and secretion of cholesterol in the liver. (Gallstones actually being blobs of cholesterol, not stones).

Nothing whatsoever to do with acidity.

cider vinegar contains Acetic Acid and the organic high quality ones contains chlorogenic acid which has been shown to lower the cholesterol and triglyceride levels according to a study made on 2006 on rats, besides cider vinegar has been used for hundreds of years by thousands of not million of patients,as it s the case with all natural remedies it takes some time to start taking effects but it works wonderfully better then most chemicals, pharmaceutical companies spends billions of dollars trying to persuade people away from natural medicine, healthy lifestyle and exercise yet most chemical medicines are full of toxicities that cause great damage to the liver.

sources (I worked with a major pharmaceutical company for more then 8 yrs.)

[johnatong]

A lot of quack nonsense has been posted on this thread. Consumption of vinegar, lemon juice etc alters the pH only in the GI tract and urine. It does not cause the bile stored in the GB to become acidic.

explains to me then why doctors prescribe Ursodeoxycholic acid to treat it ?? if acids have no effects ?

Ursodeooxychlic acid works by suppresses production and secretion of cholesterol in the liver. (Gallstones actually being blobs of cholesterol, not stones).

Nothing whatsoever to do with acidity.

cider vinegar contains Acetic Acid and the organic high quality ones contains chlorogenic acid which has been shown to lower the cholesterol and triglyceride levels according to a study made on 2006 on rats, besides cider vinegar has been used for hundreds of years by thousands of not million of patients,as it s the case with all natural remedies it takes some time to start taking effects but it works wonderfully better then most chemicals, pharmaceutical companies spends billions of dollars trying to persuade people away from natural medicine, healthy lifestyle and exercise yet most chemical medicines are full of toxicities that cause great damage to the liver.

sources (I worked with a major pharmaceutical company for more then 8 yrs.)

It would seem you have a limited knowledge of Chemistry and Human Physiology.

If you believe cider vinegar is an effective 'cure all' then go ahead and use it yourself but you should not attempt to persuade others to use "natural medicine"

There is no scientific evidence of cider vinegar having any influence on gall stones.

[sanukma]

Had gallstones a few years ago. Every now and then one would get stuck in there and the pain was out of this world. Could not lie down, could not sit, could not stand and could not walk. The only thing that gave a mild relief was to crawl up in foetus position in the shower under as cold water as possible. Usually lasted from 3 to 6 hours. Eventually had the whole bloody thing removed and all good after that. Several ladies in my family have had it as well and they all said it was by far more painful than giving birth.

[taxout]

Not all gallstones are cholesterol gallstones, and ursodeooxychlic acid works -- when it works -- only on cholesterol gallstones.

[marcofunny]

also switching to a strict vegetarian diet and reducing the daily sodium intake (salt) will speed up dramatically the dissolve process since the Gallstones contains salt and cholesterol, another important info the bile acid is a metabolic byproducts of intestinal bacteria since most Thai don't eat authentic Greek style yogurt, they lack crucially the number of the useful bacteria that produces this useful acid, 98% of Thai yogurts contains too much rice or coconut milk.

Links please to the metabolic pathways that turn "metabolic byproducts of intestinal bacteria" into bile 'acid.'

Any link to a reputed text book or a published scientific paper would be appreciated.

https://books.google.fr/books?id=x-lyocok9v4C&pg=PA147&lpg=PA147&dq=metabolic+byproducts+of+intestinal+bacteria&source=bl&ots=DElY-Tdebp&sig=sfRBuFCU8AxoAO1NTHgdwhRuw68&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQ4daQ9LPMAhUHsJQKHQBcCjcQ6AEIJTAB#v=onepage&q=metabolic%20byproducts%20of%20intestinal%20bacteria&f=false

I am aware of the role of gut bacteria but that link does not answer my question or support the claim you made.

from wikipedia

"Deoxycholic acid, also known as deoxycholate, cholanoic acid, and 3α,12α-dihydroxy-5β-cholan-24-oic acid, is a bile acid. Deoxycholic acid is one of the secondary bile acids, which are metabolic byproducts of intestinal bacteria."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deoxycholic_acid

[marcofunny]

It would seem you have a limited knowledge of Chemistry and Human Physiology.

If you believe cider vinegar is an effective 'cure all' then go ahead and use it yourself but you should not attempt to persuade others to use "natural medicine"

There is no scientific evidence of cider vinegar having any influence on gall stones.

this remedy is reported by thousands of herbal practitioners you can find it on hundreds of websites

http://www.webmd.com/diet/obesity/apple-cider-vinegar-and-health

http://homeremediesforlife.com/gallstones/

http://aroundmyhome.blogspot.com/2009/03/what-i-did-to-get-rid-of-my-gallstones.html

once I was threatened by my company because I told some patients to squeeze fresh lemon juice instead of buying vitamin C pills and told someone to eat carrots with papaya instead of buying beta carotene or vitamin A supplements, all these diseases originates from junk food and poor diet I have yet to find someone sick following a healthy diet.

my gf was sick once and was taken to Bangkok hospital and even paid 20K for nothing because no doctors advised her to use the (Ursodeoxycholic Acid), they all said she needed (Cholecystectomy) operation urgently guess why ?? they needed her to pay more bills, if you want I can pm you the scan results before and after this treatment & natural remedies, avoided all risky operation with all its associated side effects.

Edited April 30, 2016 by marcofunny