Exit Strategy from Thailand

[Tomtomtom69]

I am not going into politics here. But!!. She foresees big trouble.Increasing poverty and debt, increasing violence and "control measures", maybe increased climate and agricultural problems.She thinks the police/military rivalry maybe insoluble and also the royalist/democratic divide She thinks the problem of Islam in France and the UK is by comparison a small problem!

I wouldn't call problems with islamists in France "small" but I do agree on most of these grim predictions for Thailand.

I have made the same decision in 2007 (roughly after the coup) and the reasons that made me leave then are even much, much more true today.

Do I regret this decision sometimes? of course I do. Do I still think that it was the wisest thing to do? Yes, I still do.

Giving children a proper education in Thailand costs a lot too. Really a lot. Agree with WishWashMan.

In all likelihood the problems with Islam and Islamists in France will continue to get worse, not better. The key to avoiding trouble there is to stay far, far away from any no-go zones and instead live in small town full of French people on the southern Mediterranean coast or something.

The OP mentioned a few other countries that he thought might be "safer" than Thailand. I had to laugh at some of his choices.

Cambodia. His wife will hate it and resent him if he moved there. Violence is just as bad over there and the difference between the haves and have nots is a lot worse in that country, due to the massive gap between rich and poor. Poverty is widespread, the middle class is much smaller and the upper classes have even more impunity and power than the Thai upper classes. There seems to be a near total media blackout on major crimes that involve the upper class and politically connected elite in Cambodia. At least in Thailand most things are reported and if some bigshot runs into the back of another car, killing 2 of it's occupants, there is total outrage. In Cambodia, thugs in Sihanoukville randomly attack people, including foreigners and the police won't even begin an investigation unless you pay them some money. Not that that would even help. The Cambodian police are even more corrupt than Thai police and that's saying something. It's also a terrible place for raising kids, the medical system is atrocious and disease is widespread. There is no effective garbage disposal system so you'll see rubbish lying around everywhere. it's a nice country to visit, but takes a very tough person to consider living there.

Philippines. Much like Cambodia from what I hear, a little more developed but also amongst the highest levels of violent crime in all of East Asia. Definitely not the place for a foreign family to consider raising a family.

Singapore? Good choice, but expensive. Depends on the type of work his wife could find there. Good local schools too, no need to go to an international school unless there are restrictions for foreign nationals that I'm not aware of (doubtful though).

Malaysia? It's OK but beware of a rising emergence of conservative Islam seeping into every aspect of daily life. It remains relatively foreigner friendly though.

Vietnam? Think crazy traffic, language difficulties, a relatively basic medical system (though better than Cambodia's), lots of scams and widespread minor crime, like snatch and grab attacks etc.

China? A bit of an unusual choice for a westerner in a relationship with a SE Asian national. The language could be very tough and visas will be hard to come by without a proper job based in China. So forget that one.

Yeah so as a European citizen, OP might still want to consider moving there. However, I don't really believe Thailand is too bad for now and certainly better than in 2013/14. Perception is sometimes only what we make of it.

[Tomtomtom69]

I would have thought Europe and France is the worst place to be moving to, think dirty bombs, mass killing of civilians, 100's if not thousands of ISIS terrorist's already in place

But don't let me worry you, do what you think is right

I kind of agree. I have had a French expat married to a Thai here in Thailand tell me he feels much safer here than over there. Last year he went to France with his wife on holiday and had a knife with him in case someone tried to rape his wife. No kidding.

Of course it's easier to move to an open borders western country, but ideally, if you could, a country like Singapore or Japan would be best in terms of safety and as a place to raise children. Just my thoughts.

[Tomtomtom69]

As regards the above and life being a direct consequence of previous choices, almost 30 years ago when I first started working in PRChina I decided that -- whether I married a Chinese or other girl or not -- I did not want to have any LK-type kids. What others do, up-to-them.

So you're against miscegenation? That's ridiculous. In Thailand so-called Luk-khreungs are well liked, most people think LK kids are adorable never heard of any racism against them. That's if you can even tell they're not 100% ethnically Asian, many of them look totally Thai/Asian to me and that's coming from a person who can usually easily tell Chinese apart from Koreans and Thais for example.

I think the OP (or his wife) is paranoid with regards to supposed discrimination against him and his children. I'd be more worried about general safety and security (including the political situation), being able to afford a good school and lifestyle considerations (like how many hours you'll be stuck in traffic every day taking your kids to school/going to work) and pollution than the remote possibility of being attacked because you're white.

[Tomtomtom69]

I would have thought Europe and France is the worst place to be moving to, think dirty bombs, mass killing of civilians, 100's if not thousands of ISIS terrorist's already in place

But don't let me worry you, do what you think is right

Thailand managed to kill over 1000 people on its roads this month - if its head count you are looking for ISIS are not even in the same league.

And that's exactly it - Thai roads are infinitely more dangerous than any other aspect of life here. However, it's still possible to remain totally safe. Around 80-90% of road fatalities in Thailand involve motorcycles and mopeds. Stick to a car and your chances of living to see another day drastically increase.

As for ISIS and Europe - I think for the average person, threats, intimidation, the occasional thumpdown and a general feeling of fear in some places are enough to make one feel like they're living on edge. It doesn't only involve terrorist bombs - but rather, what happens on an everyday level. A kid getting beaten up in a school with a predominantly middle Eastern Arab/Muslim demographic by said children, a mother hassled by young men because she isn't wearing a hijab and therefore looks "easy". These are the kinds of things that would be going through my mind on an average day, not bombs going off.

[Tomtomtom69]

For as long as I've known Thailand, there have always been problems of one kind or another. Most of them had no real effects on me.

Even when the reds were burning Bangkok, in nonthaburi you wouldn't have known.

The floods were a pain but not the end of the world.

The tsunami was a disaster of epic proportions. Lucky to survive that one.

Is Thailand in meltdown? Maybe or maybe not. Only time will tell.

I left Thailand for years ago for saudi Arabia for purely financial reasons. Live on an army base here. Me, wife, and kids like it here. Very relaxed. No plans to return till retirement.

Saudi Arabia eh? Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you're going to attract any new neighbors from here. I think I speak for the rest of the TV community when I say, we'd rather stay in Thailand.

[stevenl]

I would have thought Europe and France is the worst place to be moving to, think dirty bombs, mass killing of civilians, 100's if not thousands of ISIS terrorist's already in place

But don't let me worry you, do what you think is right

I kind of agree. I have had a French expat married to a Thai here in Thailand tell me he feels much safer here than over there. Last year he went to France with his wife on holiday and had a knife with him in case someone tried to rape his wife. No kidding.

Of course it's easier to move to an open borders western country, but ideally, if you could, a country like Singapore or Japan would be best in terms of safety and as a place to raise children. Just my thoughts.

That says a lot about your friend, and judging by your previous posts also you.

All totally overdone.

[Tomtomtom69]

Me and my family made the same decision and left Thailand in January after 5 years living there. We are lucky the wife and daughter both have British passports and have lived in the UK before and I have a good job which allows me to go where I want to earn a living but we have kept the house and cars in Thailand

To be honest if it wasn't for the missus wanting to keep a base there I would have sold the lot as I think the country is a basket case and getting worse by the day, I also dont particulary want to put a single baht back into the corrupt xenophobic mess that Thailand has become. Both myself the missus and our 6 year old sprog have no regrets about leaving and we know we have done the right thing

Education wise we had the daughter in an International School from the age of 3 from kindergarden to year 1, she is now in our local primary school which is rated outstanding by Offsted and she initially struggled even with 3 years private schooling!!! she is a bright kid too so it puts Thailand schools even the pricey ones into perspective when she is struggling at the basics in a free state school. Now she is thriving and doing extra gymnastics and extra swimming lessons and the there are loads of options to do stuff that simply don't exist in Thailand or if they do they are done to a crap standard

I will keep visiting Thailand for holidays as we have friends and family there but I do not miss a single thing about it. Getting back to a proper well run country is like a breath of fresh air. No more BiB trying to scam money and I get to ride down the road without feeling the urge to kill every other person on the road due to their ignorance and retarded habits, no more mai mees or other bullshit answers and people are genuinely nicer and not constantly trying to rob me my only regret is I did not do it sooner....

It sounds like you are better off in England mainly because you couldn't get used to the cultural differences here. The "mai mees" that you are talking about could be because Thailand is a developing country which doesn't have the best service standards, maybe they ran out of your choice of drink, maybe they don't understand your request and/or simply don't want to bother trying to explain something that is more easily answered with a no, to avoid the issue. Doesn't mean that absolutely won't happen in your utopian England either, just that over there it's easier for the locals to explain such matters to you because there's no language issue.

Driving is bad here, but if you're constantly looking for a fight because Thais won't adhere to road rules, you will have a miserable time. First of all, you should understand that a combination of ignorance, bad education and lack of enforcement of road rules contributes to this. Once you understand that, it will become a lot easier to cope. If however you live here and continue with your self-righteous attitude, rather than perhaps trying to solve the root causes of the problem (you never know, it might work) you'll always be unhappy. Even if you can't solve it, at least you can put things into perspective. Thailand is a developing country. It's as simple as that.

I agree with the lack of justice and all, but for the vast majority of law abiding citizens, Thailand seems to be a pretty alright place to live. I'm glad you're happy where you are, but I think it's a simple case of perspectives. People coming here expecting world class infrastructure, adherence to all rules like in a nanny state (which Thailand fortunately isn't) even regulating what we can say and what we can think (think political correctness) will be very disappointed when they realize the lack of all these things in Thailand. However, it isn't all that hopeless. The roads are pretty good, shopping malls are even better than back home, the weather is superb, food is great, hospitals pretty good and there are some pretty nice beaches. You are literally no more than an hours' flight or a few hundred km from the nearest border crossing with another country and interesting culture. Each to their own I think.

[Tomtomtom69]

I would have thought Europe and France is the worst place to be moving to, think dirty bombs, mass killing of civilians, 100's if not thousands of ISIS terrorist's already in place

But don't let me worry you, do what you think is right

I kind of agree. I have had a French expat married to a Thai here in Thailand tell me he feels much safer here than over there. Last year he went to France with his wife on holiday and had a knife with him in case someone tried to rape his wife. No kidding.

Of course it's easier to move to an open borders western country, but ideally, if you could, a country like Singapore or Japan would be best in terms of safety and as a place to raise children. Just my thoughts.

That says a lot about your friend, and judging by your previous posts also you.

All totally overdone.

In what way? It's all a matter of perspective. The OP feels that Thailand isn't such a good place anymore, but maybe he's just paranoid. Am I paranoid or is the French guy I met (not my friend BTW, just a guy I met at a business function) too paranoid? After all, he's French and knows his country a lot better than I do (I have been to France but the last time was way back in 2010).

More developed east Asian countries would definitely be my choice for countries to move to if you have a family. I don't think you can disagree on that one.

[impulse]

When I read topics like this, I think some of these kids will do well in farang-land and some of these half-Thai kids will hate their parents and especially their farang father for ever taking them out of Thailand where they so comfortably fit in.

For a few years, I hated my Mom when she made me eat my veggies and do my homework before I could go out to play.

I thank God she did- every time my paycheck has come in, for the last 40 years.

[siamcrut]

What amuses me is the the fact that on the one hand, everyone seems to agree that the Thai education systems is shit but on the other, everyone brags about his wife's bachelor's or master's degree earned within the same system.

Weird

"face"

[spidermike007]

For as long as I've known Thailand, there have always been problems of one kind or another. Most of them had no real effects on me.

Even when the reds were burning Bangkok, in nonthaburi you wouldn't have known.

The floods were a pain but not the end of the world.

The tsunami was a disaster of epic proportions. Lucky to survive that one.

Is Thailand in meltdown? Maybe or maybe not. Only time will tell.

I left Thailand for years ago for saudi Arabia for purely financial reasons. Live on an army base here. Me, wife, and kids like it here. Very relaxed. No plans to return till retirement.

Saudi Arabia eh? Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you're going to attract any new neighbors from here. I think I speak for the rest of the TV community when I say, we'd rather stay in Thailand.

There is no amount of money that I could be paid, to live in Saudi Arabia, one of the most horrific places on earth, with one of the most extreme governments, and the heinous Wahhabi faith. Nothing in my mind could possibly be a worse fate, than living there. Nothing, expect perhaps North Korea or Yemen. Thailand is a joy filled walk in the park, in comparison to that desolate and forsaken nation.

[thaiduncankk]

What amuses me is the the fact that on the one hand, everyone seems to agree that the Thai education systems is shit but on the other, everyone brags about his wife's bachelor's or master's degree earned within the same system.

Weird

Best post of 2016 so far.

[mark131v]

Me and my family made the same decision and left Thailand in January after 5 years living there. We are lucky the wife and daughter both have British passports and have lived in the UK before and I have a good job which allows me to go where I want to earn a living but we have kept the house and cars in Thailand

To be honest if it wasn't for the missus wanting to keep a base there I would have sold the lot as I think the country is a basket case and getting worse by the day, I also dont particulary want to put a single baht back into the corrupt xenophobic mess that Thailand has become. Both myself the missus and our 6 year old sprog have no regrets about leaving and we know we have done the right thing

Education wise we had the daughter in an International School from the age of 3 from kindergarden to year 1, she is now in our local primary school which is rated outstanding by Offsted and she initially struggled even with 3 years private schooling!!! she is a bright kid too so it puts Thailand schools even the pricey ones into perspective when she is struggling at the basics in a free state school. Now she is thriving and doing extra gymnastics and extra swimming lessons and the there are loads of options to do stuff that simply don't exist in Thailand or if they do they are done to a crap standard

I will keep visiting Thailand for holidays as we have friends and family there but I do not miss a single thing about it. Getting back to a proper well run country is like a breath of fresh air. No more BiB trying to scam money and I get to ride down the road without feeling the urge to kill every other person on the road due to their ignorance and retarded habits, no more mai mees or other bullshit answers and people are genuinely nicer and not constantly trying to rob me my only regret is I did not do it sooner....

It sounds like you are better off in England mainly because you couldn't get used to the cultural differences here. The "mai mees" that you are talking about could be because Thailand is a developing country which doesn't have the best service standards, maybe they ran out of your choice of drink, maybe they don't understand your request and/or simply don't want to bother trying to explain something that is more easily answered with a no, to avoid the issue. Doesn't mean that absolutely won't happen in your utopian England either, just that over there it's easier for the locals to explain such matters to you because there's no language issue.

Driving is bad here, but if you're constantly looking for a fight because Thais won't adhere to road rules, you will have a miserable time. First of all, you should understand that a combination of ignorance, bad education and lack of enforcement of road rules contributes to this. Once you understand that, it will become a lot easier to cope. If however you live here and continue with your self-righteous attitude, rather than perhaps trying to solve the root causes of the problem (you never know, it might work) you'll always be unhappy. Even if you can't solve it, at least you can put things into perspective. Thailand is a developing country. It's as simple as that.

I agree with the lack of justice and all, but for the vast majority of law abiding citizens, Thailand seems to be a pretty alright place to live. I'm glad you're happy where you are, but I think it's a simple case of perspectives. People coming here expecting world class infrastructure, adherence to all rules like in a nanny state (which Thailand fortunately isn't) even regulating what we can say and what we can think (think political correctness) will be very disappointed when they realize the lack of all these things in Thailand. However, it isn't all that hopeless. The roads are pretty good, shopping malls are even better than back home, the weather is superb, food is great, hospitals pretty good and there are some pretty nice beaches. You are literally no more than an hours' flight or a few hundred km from the nearest border crossing with another country and interesting culture. Each to their own I think.

Oh dear another apologist....

We are better off in the UK you are absolutely correct on that point and as a father I am 100% certain that I am doing the correct thing in giving my child the chance of a proper education

'mai mees' do you actually live in Thailand?? if you did then you would know that mai mee is the default answer in most shops or other services when the person cannot be arsed looking or is too stupid to admit they don't know what they are talking about. Doesn't just happen to foreigners either my wife and her family and friends used to get incredibly frustrated by this and it is just a manifestation of the lazy attitude many Thai's have

Driving is bad.... you think? driving in Thailand isn't just bad it is absolutely appalling, the complete lack of education and manners is shocking, for a people to be so blind to this and ignore it when they know about the daily death toll is the sign of a people so deeply in denial that it is disturbing. To insinuate that it is my attitude to driving that is the problem says a lot about you really and actually there does seem to be a lot of people like you who who defend the indefensible...

I have worked and lived all over the world I have served in some utter shitholes but the problem with LoS is that as a country it is in denial and at present in my opinion it is going backwards at a rapid rate of knots. The OP was about having an exit strategy if things go pete tong, my reply is from a person with recent experience and giving the facts of what my family and I have found, have you any experience with this that you can share or is it just your rose tinted specs making you try to justify it? you are right each to there own...

[AlexRich]

For as long as I've known Thailand, there have always been problems of one kind or another. Most of them had no real effects on me.

Even when the reds were burning Bangkok, in nonthaburi you wouldn't have known.

The floods were a pain but not the end of the world.

The tsunami was a disaster of epic proportions. Lucky to survive that one.

Is Thailand in meltdown? Maybe or maybe not. Only time will tell.

I left Thailand for years ago for saudi Arabia for purely financial reasons. Live on an army base here. Me, wife, and kids like it here. Very relaxed. No plans to return till retirement.

Saudi Arabia eh? Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you're going to attract any new neighbors from here. I think I speak for the rest of the TV community when I say, we'd rather stay in Thailand.

There is no amount of money that I could be paid, to live in Saudi Arabia, one of the most horrific places on earth, with one of the most extreme governments, and the heinous Wahhabi faith. Nothing in my mind could possibly be a worse fate, than living there. Nothing, expect perhaps North Korea or Yemen. Thailand is a joy filled walk in the park, in comparison to that desolate and forsaken nation.

I spent a few years in Saudi Arabia and had similar reservations to you. But to be honest, I had a good experience.

It's a dictatorship of course, and the rule of law is inconsistent, depending on your connections - as is Thailand at the moment. However, if the OP is a westerner and he lives in a compound with his family then its really not that harsh an environment. The Saudi's that I met were friendly and pretty easy to get along with and the working conditions were fine. Driving can be pretty hairy at times but you get used to it. If you want to save money quickly, it is one of the best places I can think of to do so. If you live in Jeddah or Dammam you will not be exposed to Riyadh Wahhabi practices, and rarely see Mutawa, or religious police. Jeddah is international, and a great deal more relaxed. I was never stopped by the Police once, and there was no 'tea money' payment requests. The ladies wear hijab but do not cover up to the same extent as Riyadh. I never felt in any danger at any time, day or night.

I miss driving in the desert and running (hash harriers) around some of the locations outside of Jeddah. The one thing I did not like is that I needed the signature of my employer, stamped at a government office, in order to leave, although I kept my passport. So if you have a problem and want to leave quickly it is not so easy. All in all, not perfect, but much better than you might think. I think the guy above did the right thing, he'll return to Thailand with a pot of cash.

[FritsSikkink]

For as long as I've known Thailand, there have always been problems of one kind or another. Most of them had no real effects on me.

Even when the reds were burning Bangkok, in nonthaburi you wouldn't have known.

The floods were a pain but not the end of the world.

The tsunami was a disaster of epic proportions. Lucky to survive that one.

Is Thailand in meltdown? Maybe or maybe not. Only time will tell.

I left Thailand for years ago for saudi Arabia for purely financial reasons. Live on an army base here. Me, wife, and kids like it here. Very relaxed. No plans to return till retirement.

Saudi Arabia eh? Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you're going to attract any new neighbors from here. I think I speak for the rest of the TV community when I say, we'd rather stay in Thailand.

There is no amount of money that I could be paid, to live in Saudi Arabia, one of the most horrific places on earth, with one of the most extreme governments, and the heinous Wahhabi faith. Nothing in my mind could possibly be a worse fate, than living there. Nothing, expect perhaps North Korea or Yemen. Thailand is a joy filled walk in the park, in comparison to that desolate and forsaken nation.

I spent a few years in Saudi Arabia and had similar reservations to you. But to be honest, I had a good experience.

It's a dictatorship of course, and the rule of law is inconsistent, depending on your connections - as is Thailand at the moment. However, if the OP is a westerner and he lives in a compound with his family then its really not that harsh an environment. The Saudi's that I met were friendly and pretty easy to get along with and the working conditions were fine. Driving can be pretty hairy at times but you get used to it. If you want to save money quickly, it is one of the best places I can think of to do so. If you live in Jeddah or Dammam you will not be exposed to Riyadh Wahhabi practices, and rarely see Mutawa, or religious police. Jeddah is international, and a great deal more relaxed. I was never stopped by the Police once, and there was no 'tea money' payment requests. The ladies wear hijab but do not cover up to the same extent as Riyadh. I never felt in any danger at any time, day or night.

I miss driving in the desert and running (hash harriers) around some of the locations outside of Jeddah. The one thing I did not like is that I needed the signature of my employer, stamped at a government office, in order to leave, although I kept my passport. So if you have a problem and want to leave quickly it is not so easy. All in all, not perfect, but much better than you might think. I think the guy above did the right thing, he'll return to Thailand with a pot of cash.

for you maybe not very bad but your wife is nothing outside the compound

[stevenl]

Me and my family made the same decision and left Thailand in January after 5 years living there. We are lucky the wife and daughter both have British passports and have lived in the UK before and I have a good job which allows me to go where I want to earn a living but we have kept the house and cars in Thailand

To be honest if it wasn't for the missus wanting to keep a base there I would have sold the lot as I think the country is a basket case and getting worse by the day, I also dont particulary want to put a single baht back into the corrupt xenophobic mess that Thailand has become. Both myself the missus and our 6 year old sprog have no regrets about leaving and we know we have done the right thing

Education wise we had the daughter in an International School from the age of 3 from kindergarden to year 1, she is now in our local primary school which is rated outstanding by Offsted and she initially struggled even with 3 years private schooling!!! she is a bright kid too so it puts Thailand schools even the pricey ones into perspective when she is struggling at the basics in a free state school. Now she is thriving and doing extra gymnastics and extra swimming lessons and the there are loads of options to do stuff that simply don't exist in Thailand or if they do they are done to a crap standard

I will keep visiting Thailand for holidays as we have friends and family there but I do not miss a single thing about it. Getting back to a proper well run country is like a breath of fresh air. No more BiB trying to scam money and I get to ride down the road without feeling the urge to kill every other person on the road due to their ignorance and retarded habits, no more mai mees or other bullshit answers and people are genuinely nicer and not constantly trying to rob me my only regret is I did not do it sooner....

It sounds like you are better off in England mainly because you couldn't get used to the cultural differences here. The "mai mees" that you are talking about could be because Thailand is a developing country which doesn't have the best service standards, maybe they ran out of your choice of drink, maybe they don't understand your request and/or simply don't want to bother trying to explain something that is more easily answered with a no, to avoid the issue. Doesn't mean that absolutely won't happen in your utopian England either, just that over there it's easier for the locals to explain such matters to you because there's no language issue.

Driving is bad here, but if you're constantly looking for a fight because Thais won't adhere to road rules, you will have a miserable time. First of all, you should understand that a combination of ignorance, bad education and lack of enforcement of road rules contributes to this. Once you understand that, it will become a lot easier to cope. If however you live here and continue with your self-righteous attitude, rather than perhaps trying to solve the root causes of the problem (you never know, it might work) you'll always be unhappy. Even if you can't solve it, at least you can put things into perspective. Thailand is a developing country. It's as simple as that.

I agree with the lack of justice and all, but for the vast majority of law abiding citizens, Thailand seems to be a pretty alright place to live. I'm glad you're happy where you are, but I think it's a simple case of perspectives. People coming here expecting world class infrastructure, adherence to all rules like in a nanny state (which Thailand fortunately isn't) even regulating what we can say and what we can think (think political correctness) will be very disappointed when they realize the lack of all these things in Thailand. However, it isn't all that hopeless. The roads are pretty good, shopping malls are even better than back home, the weather is superb, food is great, hospitals pretty good and there are some pretty nice beaches. You are literally no more than an hours' flight or a few hundred km from the nearest border crossing with another country and interesting culture. Each to their own I think.

Oh dear another apologist....

We are better off in the UK you are absolutely correct on that point and as a father I am 100% certain that I am doing the correct thing in giving my child the chance of a proper education

'mai mees' do you actually live in Thailand?? if you did then you would know that mai mee is the default answer in most shops or other services when the person cannot be arsed looking or is too stupid to admit they don't know what they are talking about. Doesn't just happen to foreigners either my wife and her family and friends used to get incredibly frustrated by this and it is just a manifestation of the lazy attitude many Thai's have

Driving is bad.... you think? driving in Thailand isn't just bad it is absolutely appalling, the complete lack of education and manners is shocking, for a people to be so blind to this and ignore it when they know about the daily death toll is the sign of a people so deeply in denial that it is disturbing. To insinuate that it is my attitude to driving that is the problem says a lot about you really and actually there does seem to be a lot of people like you who who defend the indefensible...

I have worked and lived all over the world I have served in some utter shitholes but the problem with LoS is that as a country it is in denial and at present in my opinion it is going backwards at a rapid rate of knots. The OP was about having an exit strategy if things go pete tong, my reply is from a person with recent experience and giving the facts of what my family and I have found, have you any experience with this that you can share or is it just your rose tinted specs making you try to justify it? you are right each to there own...

You call it facts, it just depends on your perspective. You call people that are happy here apologists, others call people like you bashers.

[FritsSikkink]

Me and my family made the same decision and left Thailand in January after 5 years living there. We are lucky the wife and daughter both have British passports and have lived in the UK before and I have a good job which allows me to go where I want to earn a living but we have kept the house and cars in Thailand

To be honest if it wasn't for the missus wanting to keep a base there I would have sold the lot as I think the country is a basket case and getting worse by the day, I also dont particulary want to put a single baht back into the corrupt xenophobic mess that Thailand has become. Both myself the missus and our 6 year old sprog have no regrets about leaving and we know we have done the right thing

Education wise we had the daughter in an International School from the age of 3 from kindergarden to year 1, she is now in our local primary school which is rated outstanding by Offsted and she initially struggled even with 3 years private schooling!!! she is a bright kid too so it puts Thailand schools even the pricey ones into perspective when she is struggling at the basics in a free state school. Now she is thriving and doing extra gymnastics and extra swimming lessons and the there are loads of options to do stuff that simply don't exist in Thailand or if they do they are done to a crap standard

I will keep visiting Thailand for holidays as we have friends and family there but I do not miss a single thing about it. Getting back to a proper well run country is like a breath of fresh air. No more BiB trying to scam money and I get to ride down the road without feeling the urge to kill every other person on the road due to their ignorance and retarded habits, no more mai mees or other bullshit answers and people are genuinely nicer and not constantly trying to rob me my only regret is I did not do it sooner....

It sounds like you are better off in England mainly because you couldn't get used to the cultural differences here. The "mai mees" that you are talking about could be because Thailand is a developing country which doesn't have the best service standards, maybe they ran out of your choice of drink, maybe they don't understand your request and/or simply don't want to bother trying to explain something that is more easily answered with a no, to avoid the issue. Doesn't mean that absolutely won't happen in your utopian England either, just that over there it's easier for the locals to explain such matters to you because there's no language issue.

Driving is bad here, but if you're constantly looking for a fight because Thais won't adhere to road rules, you will have a miserable time. First of all, you should understand that a combination of ignorance, bad education and lack of enforcement of road rules contributes to this. Once you understand that, it will become a lot easier to cope. If however you live here and continue with your self-righteous attitude, rather than perhaps trying to solve the root causes of the problem (you never know, it might work) you'll always be unhappy. Even if you can't solve it, at least you can put things into perspective. Thailand is a developing country. It's as simple as that.

I agree with the lack of justice and all, but for the vast majority of law abiding citizens, Thailand seems to be a pretty alright place to live. I'm glad you're happy where you are, but I think it's a simple case of perspectives. People coming here expecting world class infrastructure, adherence to all rules like in a nanny state (which Thailand fortunately isn't) even regulating what we can say and what we can think (think political correctness) will be very disappointed when they realize the lack of all these things in Thailand. However, it isn't all that hopeless. The roads are pretty good, shopping malls are even better than back home, the weather is superb, food is great, hospitals pretty good and there are some pretty nice beaches. You are literally no more than an hours' flight or a few hundred km from the nearest border crossing with another country and interesting culture. Each to their own I think.

Oh dear another apologist....

We are better off in the UK you are absolutely correct on that point and as a father I am 100% certain that I am doing the correct thing in giving my child the chance of a proper education

'mai mees' do you actually live in Thailand?? if you did then you would know that mai mee is the default answer in most shops or other services when the person cannot be arsed looking or is too stupid to admit they don't know what they are talking about. Doesn't just happen to foreigners either my wife and her family and friends used to get incredibly frustrated by this and it is just a manifestation of the lazy attitude many Thai's have

Driving is bad.... you think? driving in Thailand isn't just bad it is absolutely appalling, the complete lack of education and manners is shocking, for a people to be so blind to this and ignore it when they know about the daily death toll is the sign of a people so deeply in denial that it is disturbing. To insinuate that it is my attitude to driving that is the problem says a lot about you really and actually there does seem to be a lot of people like you who who defend the indefensible...

I have worked and lived all over the world I have served in some utter shitholes but the problem with LoS is that as a country it is in denial and at present in my opinion it is going backwards at a rapid rate of knots. The OP was about having an exit strategy if things go pete tong, my reply is from a person with recent experience and giving the facts of what my family and I have found, have you any experience with this that you can share or is it just your rose tinted specs making you try to justify it? you are right each to there own...

You call it facts, it just depends on your perspective. You call people that are happy here apologists, others call people like you bashers.

these people got a distorted view. they love their own government full of childmolesters and there police force who just got caught with their pants down for telling BS for 27 years about a horrible football accident Edited May 8, 2016 by FritsSikkink

[mark131v]

Me and my family made the same decision and left Thailand in January after 5 years living there. We are lucky the wife and daughter both have British passports and have lived in the UK before and I have a good job which allows me to go where I want to earn a living but we have kept the house and cars in Thailand

To be honest if it wasn't for the missus wanting to keep a base there I would have sold the lot as I think the country is a basket case and getting worse by the day, I also dont particulary want to put a single baht back into the corrupt xenophobic mess that Thailand has become. Both myself the missus and our 6 year old sprog have no regrets about leaving and we know we have done the right thing

Education wise we had the daughter in an International School from the age of 3 from kindergarden to year 1, she is now in our local primary school which is rated outstanding by Offsted and she initially struggled even with 3 years private schooling!!! she is a bright kid too so it puts Thailand schools even the pricey ones into perspective when she is struggling at the basics in a free state school. Now she is thriving and doing extra gymnastics and extra swimming lessons and the there are loads of options to do stuff that simply don't exist in Thailand or if they do they are done to a crap standard

I will keep visiting Thailand for holidays as we have friends and family there but I do not miss a single thing about it. Getting back to a proper well run country is like a breath of fresh air. No more BiB trying to scam money and I get to ride down the road without feeling the urge to kill every other person on the road due to their ignorance and retarded habits, no more mai mees or other bullshit answers and people are genuinely nicer and not constantly trying to rob me my only regret is I did not do it sooner....

It sounds like you are better off in England mainly because you couldn't get used to the cultural differences here. The "mai mees" that you are talking about could be because Thailand is a developing country which doesn't have the best service standards, maybe they ran out of your choice of drink, maybe they don't understand your request and/or simply don't want to bother trying to explain something that is more easily answered with a no, to avoid the issue. Doesn't mean that absolutely won't happen in your utopian England either, just that over there it's easier for the locals to explain such matters to you because there's no language issue.

Driving is bad here, but if you're constantly looking for a fight because Thais won't adhere to road rules, you will have a miserable time. First of all, you should understand that a combination of ignorance, bad education and lack of enforcement of road rules contributes to this. Once you understand that, it will become a lot easier to cope. If however you live here and continue with your self-righteous attitude, rather than perhaps trying to solve the root causes of the problem (you never know, it might work) you'll always be unhappy. Even if you can't solve it, at least you can put things into perspective. Thailand is a developing country. It's as simple as that.

I agree with the lack of justice and all, but for the vast majority of law abiding citizens, Thailand seems to be a pretty alright place to live. I'm glad you're happy where you are, but I think it's a simple case of perspectives. People coming here expecting world class infrastructure, adherence to all rules like in a nanny state (which Thailand fortunately isn't) even regulating what we can say and what we can think (think political correctness) will be very disappointed when they realize the lack of all these things in Thailand. However, it isn't all that hopeless. The roads are pretty good, shopping malls are even better than back home, the weather is superb, food is great, hospitals pretty good and there are some pretty nice beaches. You are literally no more than an hours' flight or a few hundred km from the nearest border crossing with another country and interesting culture. Each to their own I think.

Oh dear another apologist....

We are better off in the UK you are absolutely correct on that point and as a father I am 100% certain that I am doing the correct thing in giving my child the chance of a proper education

'mai mees' do you actually live in Thailand?? if you did then you would know that mai mee is the default answer in most shops or other services when the person cannot be arsed looking or is too stupid to admit they don't know what they are talking about. Doesn't just happen to foreigners either my wife and her family and friends used to get incredibly frustrated by this and it is just a manifestation of the lazy attitude many Thai's have

Driving is bad.... you think? driving in Thailand isn't just bad it is absolutely appalling, the complete lack of education and manners is shocking, for a people to be so blind to this and ignore it when they know about the daily death toll is the sign of a people so deeply in denial that it is disturbing. To insinuate that it is my attitude to driving that is the problem says a lot about you really and actually there does seem to be a lot of people like you who who defend the indefensible...

I have worked and lived all over the world I have served in some utter shitholes but the problem with LoS is that as a country it is in denial and at present in my opinion it is going backwards at a rapid rate of knots. The OP was about having an exit strategy if things go pete tong, my reply is from a person with recent experience and giving the facts of what my family and I have found, have you any experience with this that you can share or is it just your rose tinted specs making you try to justify it? you are right each to there own...

You call it facts, it just depends on your perspective. You call people that are happy here apologists, others call people like you bashers.

Unfortunately buddy there is an awful lot to bash once you take off the rose tinted specs and actually see what is really going on, no amount of cheap booze or cheap women will change that, then again we all live to our own principles and morales and what is acceptable for me and mine is probably different to what you need

[AlexRich]

I spent a few years in Saudi Arabia and had similar reservations to you. But to be honest, I had a good experience.

It's a dictatorship of course, and the rule of law is inconsistent, depending on your connections - as is Thailand at the moment. However, if the OP is a westerner and he lives in a compound with his family then its really not that harsh an environment. The Saudi's that I met were friendly and pretty easy to get along with and the working conditions were fine. Driving can be pretty hairy at times but you get used to it. If you want to save money quickly, it is one of the best places I can think of to do so. If you live in Jeddah or Dammam you will not be exposed to Riyadh Wahhabi practices, and rarely see Mutawa, or religious police. Jeddah is international, and a great deal more relaxed. I was never stopped by the Police once, and there was no 'tea money' payment requests. The ladies wear hijab but do not cover up to the same extent as Riyadh. I never felt in any danger at any time, day or night.

I miss driving in the desert and running (hash harriers) around some of the locations outside of Jeddah. The one thing I did not like is that I needed the signature of my employer, stamped at a government office, in order to leave, although I kept my passport. So if you have a problem and want to leave quickly it is not so easy. All in all, not perfect, but much better than you might think. I think the guy above did the right thing, he'll return to Thailand with a pot of cash.

for you maybe not very bad but your wife is nothing outside the compound

It depends on the wife, and the compound. Many make friends and get out and about using drivers. My point was that it was much better than I thought it would be, and less false and materialistic than a place like Dubai.

[CharlieH]

Posts removed - dont get personal.

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

8) You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages, vulgarities, obscenities or profanities.

[stevenl]

Me and my family made the same decision and left Thailand in January after 5 years living there. We are lucky the wife and daughter both have British passports and have lived in the UK before and I have a good job which allows me to go where I want to earn a living but we have kept the house and cars in Thailand

To be honest if it wasn't for the missus wanting to keep a base there I would have sold the lot as I think the country is a basket case and getting worse by the day, I also dont particulary want to put a single baht back into the corrupt xenophobic mess that Thailand has become. Both myself the missus and our 6 year old sprog have no regrets about leaving and we know we have done the right thing

Education wise we had the daughter in an International School from the age of 3 from kindergarden to year 1, she is now in our local primary school which is rated outstanding by Offsted and she initially struggled even with 3 years private schooling!!! she is a bright kid too so it puts Thailand schools even the pricey ones into perspective when she is struggling at the basics in a free state school. Now she is thriving and doing extra gymnastics and extra swimming lessons and the there are loads of options to do stuff that simply don't exist in Thailand or if they do they are done to a crap standard

I will keep visiting Thailand for holidays as we have friends and family there but I do not miss a single thing about it. Getting back to a proper well run country is like a breath of fresh air. No more BiB trying to scam money and I get to ride down the road without feeling the urge to kill every other person on the road due to their ignorance and retarded habits, no more mai mees or other bullshit answers and people are genuinely nicer and not constantly trying to rob me my only regret is I did not do it sooner....

It sounds like you are better off in England mainly because you couldn't get used to the cultural differences here. The "mai mees" that you are talking about could be because Thailand is a developing country which doesn't have the best service standards, maybe they ran out of your choice of drink, maybe they don't understand your request and/or simply don't want to bother trying to explain something that is more easily answered with a no, to avoid the issue. Doesn't mean that absolutely won't happen in your utopian England either, just that over there it's easier for the locals to explain such matters to you because there's no language issue.

Driving is bad here, but if you're constantly looking for a fight because Thais won't adhere to road rules, you will have a miserable time. First of all, you should understand that a combination of ignorance, bad education and lack of enforcement of road rules contributes to this. Once you understand that, it will become a lot easier to cope. If however you live here and continue with your self-righteous attitude, rather than perhaps trying to solve the root causes of the problem (you never know, it might work) you'll always be unhappy. Even if you can't solve it, at least you can put things into perspective. Thailand is a developing country. It's as simple as that.

I agree with the lack of justice and all, but for the vast majority of law abiding citizens, Thailand seems to be a pretty alright place to live. I'm glad you're happy where you are, but I think it's a simple case of perspectives. People coming here expecting world class infrastructure, adherence to all rules like in a nanny state (which Thailand fortunately isn't) even regulating what we can say and what we can think (think political correctness) will be very disappointed when they realize the lack of all these things in Thailand. However, it isn't all that hopeless. The roads are pretty good, shopping malls are even better than back home, the weather is superb, food is great, hospitals pretty good and there are some pretty nice beaches. You are literally no more than an hours' flight or a few hundred km from the nearest border crossing with another country and interesting culture. Each to their own I think.

Oh dear another apologist....

We are better off in the UK you are absolutely correct on that point and as a father I am 100% certain that I am doing the correct thing in giving my child the chance of a proper education

'mai mees' do you actually live in Thailand?? if you did then you would know that mai mee is the default answer in most shops or other services when the person cannot be arsed looking or is too stupid to admit they don't know what they are talking about. Doesn't just happen to foreigners either my wife and her family and friends used to get incredibly frustrated by this and it is just a manifestation of the lazy attitude many Thai's have

Driving is bad.... you think? driving in Thailand isn't just bad it is absolutely appalling, the complete lack of education and manners is shocking, for a people to be so blind to this and ignore it when they know about the daily death toll is the sign of a people so deeply in denial that it is disturbing. To insinuate that it is my attitude to driving that is the problem says a lot about you really and actually there does seem to be a lot of people like you who who defend the indefensible...

I have worked and lived all over the world I have served in some utter shitholes but the problem with LoS is that as a country it is in denial and at present in my opinion it is going backwards at a rapid rate of knots. The OP was about having an exit strategy if things go pete tong, my reply is from a person with recent experience and giving the facts of what my family and I have found, have you any experience with this that you can share or is it just your rose tinted specs making you try to justify it? you are right each to there own...

You call it facts, it just depends on your perspective. You call people that are happy here apologists, others call people like you bashers.

Unfortunately buddy there is an awful lot to bash once you take off the rose tinted specs and actually see what is really going on, no amount of cheap booze or cheap women will change that, then again we all live to our own principles and morales and what is acceptable for me and mine is probably different to what you need

There you go, accusing others of not seeing things as they are, of whore mongoring, of having less morals.

It is all perspective.

[laolover88]

So!!

We are pretty much done here!

Houses and Cars mothballed

Thank you to all you guys and everyone for comments! Digital Nomads can obviously read TV anywhere!

Air France to Paris and Nice. It is almost as much of an adventure as coming to Thailand decades ago.

Will keep in touch! Please do the same. So much we will miss; but so much to look forward to, particularly for the children. Wish all members well!

[bermondburi]

For as long as I've known Thailand, there have always been problems of one kind or another. Most of them had no real effects on me.

Even when the reds were burning Bangkok, in nonthaburi you wouldn't have known.

The floods were a pain but not the end of the world.

The tsunami was a disaster of epic proportions. Lucky to survive that one.

Is Thailand in meltdown? Maybe or maybe not. Only time will tell.

I left Thailand for years ago for saudi Arabia for purely financial reasons. Live on an army base here. Me, wife, and kids like it here. Very relaxed. No plans to return till retirement.

#Wow.

Why wow?

He is living in Saudi Arabia for financial reasons. He plans to return to Thailand when he retires.

I would think that means he likes Thailand better.

I think a Thai basher would have a hard time understanding that.

That's it. If I could earn the money I do here in Thailand, I'd be there, but I can't so Saudi it is.

No regrets leaving though. Thought I'd miss Thailand, but strangely enough I don't at all.

I like it in Saudi too. But I'm the kind of guy who is happy anywhere. So long as I've got time for family, good food, booze, and a swimming pool, some nature, I'm okay.

When I do return to Thailand I want to be in the position that I'm not stuck there though. That's worth mentioning.

[bermondburi]

The Junta isn't going to let go of power and when THE big event happens, that will seal the fate of the nation, and it won't be pretty. A power struggle of epic proportions will take place, and you all know what I'm talking about.

It doesn't matter to me who sits where, but with the army in power for many years to come, the surging drug crisis, more Thais living in poverty and going into debt, it's going to get a LOT worse before it gets better.

I personally believe Thailand will either become a failed state or be ruled as hard as Burma used to be. Either way, no one in their right mind will want to be here in the future.

That said, I hope I'm totally wrong.

Regardless of whatever happens, I'm going nowhere. Some things are inevitable, that's life !

Until they kick you out.

[laolover88]

There will be a few "footnotes" I have absolutely no regrets; though it is hard to give up on something, some place one has come to love over the years. I feel one has to be excited by the future as well as comfortable with past decisions. I am not prepared for the children to experience what might happen. If nothing happens? So what? We can come back!!

[FritsSikkink]

have a great time in france and stay there

[cmsally]

There will be a few "footnotes" I have absolutely no regrets; though it is hard to give up on something, some place one has come to love over the years. I feel one has to be excited by the future as well as comfortable with past decisions. I am not prepared for the children to experience what might happen. If nothing happens? So what? We can come back!!

Good luck with the move. I'm glad that my kids have finished with their education and can now choose what they want to do and where to be. A totally Thai education does not leave many choices, that is something people need to accept as a reality. Not saying abroad is a bed of roses but it does give you choices. Anyway most good unis in UK have such a large amount of Chinese the kids will never know they are not in Asia !

[Apiwan2]

The Junta isn't going to let go of power and when THE big event happens, that will seal the fate of the nation, and it won't be pretty. A power struggle of epic proportions will take place, and you all know what I'm talking about.

It doesn't matter to me who sits where, but with the army in power for many years to come, the surging drug crisis, more Thais living in poverty and going into debt, it's going to get a LOT worse before it gets better.

I personally believe Thailand will either become a failed state or be ruled as hard as Burma used to be. Either way, no one in their right mind will want to be here in the future.

That said, I hope I'm totally wrong.

Have to agree

[Apiwan2]

Read every post on this thread and have to say it's 50/50 stay or go.

Having said that myself included lots of parents on here seriously thinking about the future if their kids.

My main worries are they are in a good school and the eldest is 13 next year.

If we decided to move back to the UK and he had problems with only 5 years left of normal education then he wouldn't get a leaving cert in Thailand but also wouldn't do well in GCSE'S in UK.

Like to hear from guys who have made the move and it turned out well or not.

Not an easy decision to make

[fey]

I am fairly happy here. But, if I had the funds, and a substantial income, that would allow me to live anywhere, I doubt I would be living here. There are just too many problems and issues. Some of the areas that would be a huge concern to me if I was raising children, would be:

the fabulously inferior educational system, and the inability for children to question their teachers.

the inability for the kids to learn much about the world. geography, history, geopolitics, thailand's true place in the world, etc.

the nearly complete lack of positive role models for the kids here. how many Thai's have recently won Nobel Peace prizes, Pulitzers, Peabodys, Oscars, etc?

the ridiculous and outdated class system.

the utter refusal of the elites, and the government to acknowledge the need to improve education.

the succession of one incompetent government after the next.

the seeming unwillingness of the current regime, to let go of power.

the lack of law and order. the lack of traffic safety. the lack of regard for public safety.

the corruption, and the unwillingness of anyone in a position of power to do anything about it.

the human trafficking and slave trade issues.

the potential for the Thai economy to really take a bath, over the next decade.

the erosion of Thailand's standing within SE Asia.

the complete and utter lack of progressive minds, here in the LOS.

the complete lack of vision, when it comes to the future.

the lack of sustainable environmental and developmental policies.

the presence of a nationalist attitude and agenda. it holds the country back on so many levels.

lastly, my favorite peeve. face. the extreme level of cowardice, that an entire nation engages in, when they practice this act of shameful weakness on a daily basis. talk about the utter refusal to look within for the source of a problem. it is an abomination.

I could go on and on. But, I won't. Needless to say, there is tremendous room for improvement. No need to address the issues of the countries that are being considered. Just venting about some local frustrations.

where would you go if you had the money and why?

forgot to mention having to look at and live around sex tourist scum