More potential doctors cheating in university medical exams in Bangkok

[atyclb]

A reasonable question to ask would be "How likely is it that thre well-trained and well-co-ordinated team of cheats got caught on their first attempt?

All my experience of living in Thailand and teaching in Thailand suggests that the 3 spies and the 3 students who got caught are the tip of a very large iceberg.

I have only encountered 2 Thai doctors who are not incompetent, and one of those is a bad-tempered SOB with all the bedside manner of a dung-beetle, I include the senior clinicians at 2 very high-profile hospitals in Bangkok under the over-arching banner of incompetence.

So, Are they incompetent because the standard of medical education and training in Thailand is wonderful, or because examinations are genuine assessments of knowledge and ability? Or because they aren't?

Winnie

would be helpful for the actual case scenarios, what happened or didnt happen that the so called incompetence was based on. the thais dont really have the mentality of explaining everything to patients and often simply just treat and no explanation. this can alienate patients used to a different style.

[atyclb]

4 years in Thailand and two hospital visits so far... both were really concerning...

1. Went in for a checkup 8 weeks after getting my nose broken playing football, because of minor trouble breathing. Within two minutes the <30yr old surgeon tried to sell me 120,000 baht "emergency" surgery. Went to get a second opinion who simply said the swelling hasn't completely gone down yet and you'll be fine, few weeks later I was fine.

2. Went in because of a worse than normal fever, asked for a flu swab and a diagnosis. Got a flu-swab confirming it wasn't the flu but received no other diagnosis. Doctor said you can go home now. Frustrated and tired I just went to pay the bill. After paying the bill they called me back to say "Hey mister, you forgot your medicine!". "What medicine?" I asked. The 4500 baht bill included 3800 baht of medicines, consisting of 9 different unknown packets of pills (totalling around 120 pills!), which the fluent english speaking doctor made no mention of. Went to Tesco and bought Amoxicillan and Ibuprofen (200 baht) instead, rested up and was fine in 3 days.

Gone are the days where we can really trust doctors...

I know google doctor isn't the right way to go, but when considering the alternatives we are often left with no choice!

p.s. I know I am little off topic, but I do see a connection here... pushing kids through medical school to get top salaries results in a terrible health care system run by incompetence and only focussed on money

I dread the day when I have a more serious health issue here...

1 sadly you can encounter this type of sales pitch in developed countries also

2 sounds like you self prescribed unnecessary and useless antibiotics for what was very likely a viral infection. antibiotics are commonly inappropriately prescribe by g7 doctors to appease patients. leads to resistant strain bacteria and other problems.

[atyclb]

interesting to see how many actual doctors could pass an entry exam now...

entrance exams cover undergraduate topics/courses. a doctor in practise for 10, 20, 30 years would have long forgotten a lot of that stuff nor is it applicable to clinical medicine.

therefore you would not expect many if any to pass an entrance exam again.

what exactly was the point of your question?

[Winniedapu]

A reasonable question to ask would be "How likely is it that thre well-trained and well-co-ordinated team of cheats got caught on their first attempt?

All my experience of living in Thailand and teaching in Thailand suggests that the 3 spies and the 3 students who got caught are the tip of a very large iceberg.

I have only encountered 2 Thai doctors who are not incompetent, and one of those is a bad-tempered SOB with all the bedside manner of a dung-beetle, I include the senior clinicians at 2 very high-profile hospitals in Bangkok under the over-arching banner of incompetence.

So, Are they incompetent because the standard of medical education and training in Thailand is wonderful, or because examinations are genuine assessments of knowledge and ability? Or because they aren't?

Winnie

Actually, I think you'll find that most doctors here have had further qualifications and experience from the US, UK etc. I've been here 12 years and never met an incompetent doctor. However, the doctors I've encountered in Europe are usually from Africa and India and do not compare to the highly skilled doctors here... Perhaps you should review which hospitals or clinics you are using??

Actually Mr Claffey, I think you should stop taking the medicine! In nearly 20 years here the best diagnostician you will find is your local Chemist! The dr's here are "take some of this medicine I've been given by the travelling salesman and come back tomorrow". Chemists listen, explain and discuss.....then offer the cure, they all speak English and they all know how the drugs work, unlike the doctors!!

Fully agree. I just couldn't be bothered clueing him in.

Winnie

[Mook23]

The last doctor I went to was actually a banker I think. He tried to sell me an imported antacid pill for 2000+thb. I told him I had the pills at home and requested an updated bill (ie. minus the 2000+ splurge). Went to local pharmacist and bought as efficient thai pills (omeprazole) for 60thb...and bought a badminton set for some kids at my place. Life is great.

[Mook23]

4 years in Thailand and two hospital visits so far... both were really concerning...

1. Went in for a checkup 8 weeks after getting my nose broken playing football, because of minor trouble breathing. Within two minutes the <30yr old surgeon tried to sell me 120,000 baht "emergency" surgery. Went to get a second opinion who simply said the swelling hasn't completely gone down yet and you'll be fine, few weeks later I was fine.

2. Went in because of a worse than normal fever, asked for a flu swab and a diagnosis. Got a flu-swab confirming it wasn't the flu but received no other diagnosis. Doctor said you can go home now. Frustrated and tired I just went to pay the bill. After paying the bill they called me back to say "Hey mister, you forgot your medicine!". "What medicine?" I asked. The 4500 baht bill included 3800 baht of medicines, consisting of 9 different unknown packets of pills (totalling around 120 pills!), which the fluent english speaking doctor made no mention of. Went to Tesco and bought Amoxicillan and Ibuprofen (200 baht) instead, rested up and was fine in 3 days.

Gone are the days where we can really trust doctors...

I know google doctor isn't the right way to go, but when considering the alternatives we are often left with no choice!

p.s. I know I am little off topic, but I do see a connection here... pushing kids through medical school to get top salaries results in a terrible health care system run by incompetence and only focussed on money

I dread the day when I have a more serious health issue here...

1 sadly you can encounter this type of sales pitch in developed countries also

2 sounds like you self prescribed unnecessary and useless antibiotics for what was very likely a viral infection. antibiotics are commonly inappropriately prescribe by g7 doctors to appease patients. leads to resistant strain bacteria and other problems.

Not where I live. I pay my doc about 20 EUR for each visit and get back 17-18 from government insurance. The pharmacists always provide cheap generics unless customer asks for brand. In los I have met very good cheap docs who listen and understand that as farang I'm not looking for 12 bags of pills. Alas the last ones did try to rip me with the medicine scam.

[klauskunkel]

interesting to see how many actual doctors could pass an entry exam now...

entrance exams cover undergraduate topics/courses. a doctor in practise for 10, 20, 30 years would have long forgotten a lot of that stuff nor is it applicable to clinical medicine.

therefore you would not expect many if any to pass an entrance exam again.

what exactly was the point of your question?

you are right, and my point is moot.

[NCC1701A]

Must say I have had extremely good quality medical care in Thailand. Paid through the nose for it but not complaining about quality. I do complain about the outrageous cost of medication provided by the 'for profit' hospitals and consequently get prescriptions filled overseas or at cheaper pharmacies.

And for me, coming from the USA, the health care here seems almost free.

[Bender]

they ( the sudents) will say solly solly, they will do a wai, 2 weeks in the monkhood and .... oh wait as a doctor student , they didnt kill their patient yet.

[Winniedapu]

":... the university intended to improve its procedures and get tough with cheats from now on."

Are they saying they have NOT been tough with cheats in the past?

Indeed. But now they've been caught out, their intentions have suddenly become all serious. Must save face - very important, but next year all the fuss will have died down so it'll be back to the normal incompetence.

I'd laugh if I weren't already crying.

Winnie

[dcnx]

These are the same idots who will be playing God with people's lives.

They should all be banned from working in the medical industry, forever. Also kicked out of school.

[Tonawatchee]

Future Hub of Malpractice.

[overherebc]

Future Hub of Malpractice.

Anyone remember a TV show in UK many years ago called ' Never mind the quality, feel the width '

[atyclb]

The last doctor I went to was actually a banker I think. He tried to sell me an imported antacid pill for 2000+thb. I told him I had the pills at home and requested an updated bill (ie. minus the 2000+ splurge). Went to local pharmacist and bought as efficient thai pills (omeprazole) for 60thb...and bought a badminton set for some kids at my place. Life is great.

i am familiar with that game. also there are pharmacies that drastically overcharge foreigners for standard inexpensive medicines. i use omeprazole. one pharmacy showed me omeprazole for 130 baht. i commented "expensive" she say not expensive. i asked her to show me a more expensive omeprazole in stock. she said she didn't have one. she did have cheaper ones. then i told her therefore 130 baht is the most expensive one she has so how can she say it is not expensive???

she was shocked, simple deductive reasoning beat her although id say she doesnt know what deductive reasoning is.

automatic professional smooth polished lies.

that big fancy hospital near nana bts is more like a business trying to be a hospital. trying to sell you months of medications from their triple priced pharmacy. i have heard the doctors ar not comfortable with it but they are pressured to sell as part of working there.

[Caveat Emptor]

From a little boy on i was brought up to believe in certain professions because of their education, professional training and so on.

Have never had that trust or feeling here and stories like this do nothing to help.

I posted a couple of days ago that the Deputy Head of Ramkamheng Uni once said that cheating was no big deal and that does nothing for confidence either.

She was talking about the son of a VIP but it goes much further than just the occasional incident.

[tails]

4 years in Thailand and two hospital visits so far... both were really concerning...

1. Went in for a checkup 8 weeks after getting my nose broken playing football, because of minor trouble breathing. Within two minutes the <30yr old surgeon tried to sell me 120,000 baht "emergency" surgery. Went to get a second opinion who simply said the swelling hasn't completely gone down yet and you'll be fine, few weeks later I was fine.

2. Went in because of a worse than normal fever, asked for a flu swab and a diagnosis. Got a flu-swab confirming it wasn't the flu but received no other diagnosis. Doctor said you can go home now. Frustrated and tired I just went to pay the bill. After paying the bill they called me back to say "Hey mister, you forgot your medicine!". "What medicine?" I asked. The 4500 baht bill included 3800 baht of medicines, consisting of 9 different unknown packets of pills (totalling around 120 pills!), which the fluent english speaking doctor made no mention of. Went to Tesco and bought Amoxicillan and Ibuprofen (200 baht) instead, rested up and was fine in 3 days.

Gone are the days where we can really trust doctors...

I know google doctor isn't the right way to go, but when considering the alternatives we are often left with no choice!

p.s. I know I am little off topic, but I do see a connection here... pushing kids through medical school to get top salaries results in a terrible health care system run by incompetence and only focussed on money

I dread the day when I have a more serious health issue here...

1 sadly you can encounter this type of sales pitch in developed countries also

2 sounds like you self prescribed unnecessary and useless antibiotics for what was very likely a viral infection. antibiotics are commonly inappropriately prescribe by g7 doctors to appease patients. leads to resistant strain bacteria and other problems.

thankyou, however...

1. no doubt it does, although from my first two experiences here it's one extreme to the other

2. 'sounds like I self-prescribed'... well, um yeah... that was the point of the post, how can we get sound advice and trust the "professionals" when they are not only in bed with the pharmacy industry, they also cheat on exams? now you're providing a diagnosis based on half a sentence on a forum? that's not helping, that's kinda making the situation worse

Edited May 29, 2016 by tails

[atyclb]

4 years in Thailand and two hospital visits so far... both were really concerning...

1. Went in for a checkup 8 weeks after getting my nose broken playing football, because of minor trouble breathing. Within two minutes the <30yr old surgeon tried to sell me 120,000 baht "emergency" surgery. Went to get a second opinion who simply said the swelling hasn't completely gone down yet and you'll be fine, few weeks later I was fine.

2. Went in because of a worse than normal fever, asked for a flu swab and a diagnosis. Got a flu-swab confirming it wasn't the flu but received no other diagnosis. Doctor said you can go home now. Frustrated and tired I just went to pay the bill. After paying the bill they called me back to say "Hey mister, you forgot your medicine!". "What medicine?" I asked. The 4500 baht bill included 3800 baht of medicines, consisting of 9 different unknown packets of pills (totalling around 120 pills!), which the fluent english speaking doctor made no mention of. Went to Tesco and bought Amoxicillan and Ibuprofen (200 baht) instead, rested up and was fine in 3 days.

Gone are the days where we can really trust doctors...

I know google doctor isn't the right way to go, but when considering the alternatives we are often left with no choice!

p.s. I know I am little off topic, but I do see a connection here... pushing kids through medical school to get top salaries results in a terrible health care system run by incompetence and only focussed on money

I dread the day when I have a more serious health issue here...

1 sadly you can encounter this type of sales pitch in developed countries also

2 sounds like you self prescribed unnecessary and useless antibiotics for what was very likely a viral infection. antibiotics are commonly inappropriately prescribe by g7 doctors to appease patients. leads to resistant strain bacteria and other problems.

thankyou, however...

1. no doubt it does, although from my first two experiences here it's one extreme to the other

2. 'sounds like I self-prescribed'... well, um yeah... that was the point of the post, how can we get sound advice and trust the "professionals" when they are not only in bed with the pharmacy industry, they also cheat on exams? now you're providing a diagnosis based on half a sentence on a forum? that's not helping, that's kinda making the situation worse

ive had good experiences at public university teaching hospitals. Chula is a good one near silom mrt station in bangkok. you will wait but the doctors there are not pressured to sell services or medicines. medicines are normally priced and fees as well. across the street are several busy private pharmacies where prices are very reasonable and not inflated for foreigners. (ive have staff competency issues at some) because not all staff are pharmacists.

[atyclb]

These are the same idots who will be playing God with people's lives.

They should all be banned from working in the medical industry, forever. Also kicked out of school.

heres a true story. when i was a young lad in university i developed worsening wrist pain with no history of injury. my mom sent me to a orthopedic dr harvard grad no less. he did a very painful test of injecting dye into my wrist but still could not figure out the problem. i was reading and studying on my own and found something called aseptic necrosis of the lunate bone.(kienbochs disease). i asked him if it could be. he condescendingly dissed / ignored my idea.

next i went to a friends doctor, an india no name school graduate that agreed with me.

then off to a world known hand surgeon in nyc that was great. he cordially agreed with me. he was not a harvard grad, just a hell of a nice guy, highly accomplished. i had corrective surgery and i recall this guy having fishing flies stuck into his operating room cap.

t

he harvard grad was an arrogant full of himself A hole. the world famous hand surgeon non famous uni grad was a great guy.