NACC impounds 1.8 billion baht in fake G-to-G rice deals payments

[greenchair]

I read it 3 times! !!!

How did they confiscate money that was never paid? ??

And anyway, if they were not authorised to buy it, then the (not paid money ) should be returned immediately as thailand should never have accepted it.

When you say "......as thailand should never have accepted it." do you mean the corrupt PTP ministers who initiated the scheme, or someone else?

This is the new new rice scheme, initiated by this new new government.

[Baerboxer]

So, the have impounded funds that never existed.

Because they were not authorised, they were fake?

Sonuds like the same junta logic, impounding people who committed no crimes and an unauthorised fake government.

I read it 3 times! !!!

How did they confiscate money that was never paid? ??

And anyway, if they were not authorised to buy it, then the (not paid money ) should be returned immediately as thailand should never have accepted it.

Not a well written article. But nevertheless the pertinent point is clear.

The "G2G" deals were a fraud. Not real purchases by the Chinese companies. That was a ruse by Thai companies and individuals to be able to purchase the rice at the much lower G2G Export price, not actually export it at all, and then sell it on the home market at the higher price, pocketing a nice profit. They were committing fraud.

The Chinese companies did not wire or transfer any money, as confirmed by the BoT. But the Thai companies and individuals made cheques out. According to the article these cheques are part of the evidence against those accused of this fraud.

If those cheques were paid into an account and honored then it is that money that has been seized.

The shit is about to hit the fan for those involved.

[Baerboxer]

I read it 3 times! !!!

How did they confiscate money that was never paid? ??

And anyway, if they were not authorised to buy it, then the (not paid money ) should be returned immediately as thailand should never have accepted it.

When you say "......as thailand should never have accepted it." do you mean the corrupt PTP ministers who initiated the scheme, or someone else?

The disappointing thing here is this article is so poorly written that is quite confusing and ambiguous at the very least, would be nice to have names dates etc...

So we have one Chinese government company that is authorized to buy,( then that deal should have gone ahead as no problem)

Tthen three Chinese non government wanting to buy, The question is Who gives the "authority" to buy rice? The Thai government or the Chinese government? If is the Thai gov' that gives "authority" then there is a problem, BUT As we all well know the Chinese are quite practiced at fake stuff such as baby's milk, fake eggs, truffle's, fake steamed pork buns, and well just about anything you can think of so why not fake Chinese gov company's?

And if the Chinese are the ones who give the "authority" then why would Thailand gov' be accountable?

As for checks being sent then never paid,

So who is in the wrong here?

It was a fraud. Designed by people in government, related to people in government, friends with people in government and their cronies.

Fraudulent G2G deals so rice could be purchased at the much lower export G2G price, then never physically exported by instead sold on the home market at much higher prices.

Those particular Chinese companies, AFAIK, do not have the appropriate Chinese government licenses to import rice. But as the deal was a fraud, and they were never actually going to pay for the rice or import it that didn't matter. Presumably they received some considerations for their part. The Thai companies and individuals that issued the cheques were going to sell the rice on the home market, at much higher prices, thus pocketing nice profits. They were defrauding the Thai Treasury in doing so.

If you followed all the other threads on this fraud, and you commented on some, then you'd be able to piece together including from this poorly written article.

Who is wrong - the criminals who tried to commit a fraud, believing that because they were in government, related to someone in government, friends or cronies of someone in government that they were above the law and would never get caught. The protection of being able to block investigating agencies only lasts while you are in power. Yingluck, as Chair of the rice scheme, and PM, either turned a blind eye, or was simply negligent in her responsibilities. Believe what you will on that one. Admittedly, hard to stop criminals determined to commit a fraud, but she did refuse to give details of G2G deals saying either they were state secrets or the buyers wanted them kept secret.

Those integral to the fraud are facing charges in court. These cheques, if in evidence, will indeed be damning.

[Baerboxer]

So, the have impounded funds that never existed.

Because they were not authorised, they were fake?

Sonuds like the same junta logic, impounding people who committed no crimes and an unauthorised fake government.

something lost intranslation, my interpretation is that they are holding the uncashed cheques

Your desperation to defend your beloved junta has you conjuring something out of nothing.

There is no logic or reason to this ridiculous witch hunt, only fools see it otherwise.

You backed the wrong horse, your wiggle room is fast disappearing, a day of reckoning approaches.

How bad must it get? At what stage will you concede your error?

Too funny for words - almost!

Do you have any comment on the actual circumstances?

Seems more like fraudsters caught when they were no longer in a position to prevent investigation or detection.

If those cheques are in the possession of the authorities then that is going to take some explaining.

[phoenixdoglover]

So, the have impounded funds that never existed.

Because they were not authorised, they were fake?

Sonuds like the same junta logic, impounding people who committed no crimes and an unauthorised fake government.

I read it 3 times! !!!

How did they confiscate money that was never paid? ??

And anyway, if they were not authorised to buy it, then the (not paid money ) should be returned immediately as thailand should never have accepted it.

Not a well written article. But nevertheless the pertinent point is clear.

The "G2G" deals were a fraud. Not real purchases by the Chinese companies. That was a ruse by Thai companies and individuals to be able to purchase the rice at the much lower G2G Export price, not actually export it at all, and then sell it on the home market at the higher price, pocketing a nice profit. They were committing fraud.

The Chinese companies did not wire or transfer any money, as confirmed by the BoT. But the Thai companies and individuals made cheques out. According to the article these cheques are part of the evidence against those accused of this fraud.

If those cheques were paid into an account and honored then it is that money that has been seized.

The shit is about to hit the fan for those involved.

I would guess you are connecting the dots correctly. But it is frustrating when the Thai Courts limit access to proceedings, the process is somewhat hidden, and the Thai press bungles their reporting.

The other interesting aspect of this case is that the timeline clearly shows the NACC making charges, then forming two investigative committees, then asking the Supreme Court to take the case, the Supreme Court starting the trial, then slowing down the trial to a snails pace, and the NACC continuing to investigate (this particle article today).

I am guessing the NACC came under considerable pressure from May to December 2014 to complete and issue their findings against Yingluck (on the question of negligence) and the participants in the G2G scam...and they did so, but only at the cost of an incomplete investigation. Now, with trial under way, they are playing catch up, trying to fill in the gaps, and I would say the Supreme Court is going along with that approach.

I don't think courts in the US would tolerate this, but they wouldn't be holding a trial at the Supreme Court level either. Instead, the case would be dismissed, and the prosecutors would be instructed to re-file when they were ready with all their evidence.

I don't suppose the Junta Roadmap in 2014 had anything to do with that pressure on NACC.

[GuestHouse]

In terms of a G-2-G fake deal there is a vital fact missing - there has been no cooperation by the Chinese government to assist the Thai junta government in gathering any information that would attest corruption on the Chinese side of the deal. That would seem odd given China's recent aggressive pursuit against corporate corruption in China.

You seem very willing to accept political motivation for corruption charges in Thailand but unwilling to accept political motivation for not bringing charges (or cooperating) in China.

The Thai rice sales to China are in the fist instance essential to China's food supply and, as a result of Thaksin's puppet government policies trying to manipulate the rice market the bargain sale of the century.

China has a number of good reasons why they do not want to stir the pot on this deal.

[rubl]

Interesting all defence for 'rice case' criminals. As if the case is really damaging to some.

Of course the suggestion that the NACC was not ready is interesting as well. Almost as if some would like a one-day 'charge, sentence and hang' event.

[metisdead]

If you're going to provide some notable headlines related to Thai G2G rice deals, then please supply the links, as long as they are not links to sites not allowed to link to here

[Winniedapu]

So, the have impounded funds that never existed.

Because they were not authorised, they were fake?

Sonuds like the same junta logic, impounding people who committed no crimes and an unauthorised fake government.

something lost intranslation, my interpretation is that they are holding the uncashed cheques

Your desperation to defend your beloved junta has you conjuring something out of nothing.

There is no logic or reason to this ridiculous witch hunt, only fools see it otherwise.

You backed the wrong horse, your wiggle room is fast disappearing, a day of reckoning approaches.

How bad must it get? At what stage will you concede your error?

Too funny for words - almost!

Do you have any comment on the actual circumstances?

Seems more like fraudsters caught when they were no longer in a position to prevent investigation or detection.

If those cheques are in the possession of the authorities then that is going to take some explaining.

If former ministers or their mates were fraudulant or corrupt, then toss them in prison and throw away the key, I have no patience with people who break society's laws for their own advantage, whether it is Thaksin or Prayuth or any of his sponsors or anyone else. Same goes for Yingluck, Thaksin's son, anyone. If they are guilty, then imprison them, end of story, I will shed no tears for any of them.

The problem is that everyone I know suspects that Mr P is so desperate to 'uproot the Thaksin regime' that he is not above manufacturing evidence or causing it to be manufactured, or instructing the courts as to what their verdict should be. Those of us with a brain know perfectly well who is sponsoring him and why he seized power from an elected government. We also know he is comprehensively out of his depth and has achieved nothing of any consequence in the 2 years since.

He appears to have no faith in the Thai courts so judging from what he has said, he isn't going to wait for due process, but is proposing to assume YL is guilty and try to recover the alleged losses from her her without a trial. As a lesson to Thaksin no doubt.

That is just as criminal as any of the the alleged actions he complains about, and that's without allegations of treason, which the international community appears to both be aware of and resent like hell. It's one reason his popularity has declined dramatically in recent weeks. A poll was published on TV recently (I think they said the Bangkok Post commissioned it - you can't get much more junta-supporting than that). It said that 78% of people surveyed believe that the constitution draft is _____ (either to be trusted or not to be trusted - you fill in the blanks, I don't want soldiers kicking in my door thanks very much).

So I suggest that if it is correct, the government is already in deep doo-doo and sinking. Unless they rort the outcome, they can only accept or ignore a failed plebiscite, and if they ignore it or press ahead with their own, no-choice constitution (as has already been threatened), then the scenario I suggested a few days ago seems like a very real possibility, even accepting that the population are Thais, usually compliant and who will normally accept any old nonsense from authority. Everything has limits, even Thainess.

Dark days ahead perhaps? Maybe. It's almost keeping head down time folx. Less than 3 months and counting... Every day I see more evidence of that small group of people I mentioned a couple of days ago influencing what happens in Thailand. I don't know them but I wouldn't be messing with them, what they try to achieve seems to happen. Prayuth can please himself what he does, in my view he's already half-way under the bus.

Winnie

[seajae]

So, the have impounded funds that never existed.

Because they were not authorised, they were fake?

Sonuds like the same junta logic, impounding people who committed no crimes and an unauthorised fake government.

something lost intranslation, my interpretation is that they are holding the uncashed cheques

Your desperation to defend your beloved junta has you conjuring something out of nothing.

There is no logic or reason to this ridiculous witch hunt, only fools see it otherwise.

You backed the wrong horse, your wiggle room is fast disappearing, a day of reckoning approaches.

How bad must it get? At what stage will you concede your error?

obviously your understanding of english is well below par and makes your name a total laugh, what part of "thai businessmen paid the cheques and not chinese companies" dont you understand. The cheques were written by thai companies not chinese ones, thats why they are being held as evidence to show that it was not chinese companies(govt to govt) actually buying the rice but thai ones, this is why it is a fake deal. Only someone that cannot understand basic english would not understand what has been written , then again maybe all the shin apologists are incapable of actually seeing the truth when it is put up in front of them. This has nothing to do with the current pm, it is an actual fraud committed by members of the ptp govt overseen by yl and they are the ones that are in court. If the general tries to do any of the same I would like to think he will also end up in court seeing fraud is a chargeable offence in Thailand, hopefully you can do more than write a name that doesnt really suit and now understand your heroes screwed up severely

[Winniedapu]

So, the have impounded funds that never existed.

Because they were not authorised, they were fake?

Sonuds like the same junta logic, impounding people who committed no crimes and an unauthorised fake government.

something lost intranslation, my interpretation is that they are holding the uncashed cheques

Your desperation to defend your beloved junta has you conjuring something out of nothing.

There is no logic or reason to this ridiculous witch hunt, only fools see it otherwise.

You backed the wrong horse, your wiggle room is fast disappearing, a day of reckoning approaches.

How bad must it get? At what stage will you concede your error?

obviously your understanding of english is well below par and makes your name a total laugh, what part of "thai businessmen paid the cheques and not chinese companies" dont you understand. The cheques were written by thai companies not chinese ones, thats why they are being held as evidence to show that it was not chinese companies(govt to govt) actually buying the rice but thai ones, this is why it is a fake deal. Only someone that cannot understand basic english would not understand what has been written , then again maybe all the shin apologists are incapable of actually seeing the truth when it is put up in front of them. This has nothing to do with the current pm, it is an actual fraud committed by members of the ptp govt overseen by yl and they are the ones that are in court. If the general tries to do any of the same I would like to think he will also end up in court seeing fraud is a chargeable offence in Thailand, hopefully you can do more than write a name that doesnt really suit and now understand your heroes screwed up severely

It all sounds so simple when put like that. makes me wonder why I didn't see it to start with, it's all so clear to me now - and others I'll be bound. A vote of thanks to you for clearing up my misunderstandings.

But.

Forum rules are such that they prohibit name-calling. Try to remain smart and respectful, and not just smart. Who knows? it might transpire that you have been a little too simplistic, and then you'd feel quite foolish.

Winnie

[candide]

So, the have impounded funds that never existed.

Because they were not authorised, they were fake?

Sonuds like the same junta logic, impounding people who committed no crimes and an unauthorised fake government.

something lost intranslation, my interpretation is that they are holding the uncashed cheques

Your desperation to defend your beloved junta has you conjuring something out of nothing.

There is no logic or reason to this ridiculous witch hunt, only fools see it otherwise.

You backed the wrong horse, your wiggle room is fast disappearing, a day of reckoning approaches.

How bad must it get? At what stage will you concede your error?

obviously your understanding of english is well below par and makes your name a total laugh, what part of "thai businessmen paid the cheques and not chinese companies" dont you understand. The cheques were written by thai companies not chinese ones, thats why they are being held as evidence to show that it was not chinese companies(govt to govt) actually buying the rice but thai ones, this is why it is a fake deal. Only someone that cannot understand basic english would not understand what has been written , then again maybe all the shin apologists are incapable of actually seeing the truth when it is put up in front of them. This has nothing to do with the current pm, it is an actual fraud committed by members of the ptp govt overseen by yl and they are the ones that are in court. If the general tries to do any of the same I would like to think he will also end up in court seeing fraud is a chargeable offence in Thailand, hopefully you can do more than write a name that doesnt really suit and now understand your heroes screwed up severely

Hmmmmm. .. Hasn't the general granted himself full amnesty?

[Robm579]

So, the have impounded funds that never existed.

Because they were not authorised, they were fake?

Sonuds like the same junta logic, impounding people who committed no crimes and an unauthorised fake government.

something lost intranslation, my interpretation is that they are holding the uncashed cheques

Your desperation to defend your beloved junta has you conjuring something out of nothing.

There is no logic or reason to this ridiculous witch hunt, only fools see it otherwise.

You backed the wrong horse, your wiggle room is fast disappearing, a day of reckoning approaches.

How bad must it get? At what stage will you concede your error?

What "witch hunt"... 500billion baht has been stolen... Are you saying the Gov't (elected or not) should walk away?

[Winniedapu]

So, the have impounded funds that never existed.

Because they were not authorised, they were fake?

Sonuds like the same junta logic, impounding people who committed no crimes and an unauthorised fake government.

something lost intranslation, my interpretation is that they are holding the uncashed cheques

Your desperation to defend your beloved junta has you conjuring something out of nothing.

There is no logic or reason to this ridiculous witch hunt, only fools see it otherwise.

You backed the wrong horse, your wiggle room is fast disappearing, a day of reckoning approaches.

How bad must it get? At what stage will you concede your error?

What "witch hunt"... 500billion baht has been stolen... Are you saying the Gov't (elected or not) should walk away?

well, so far as I am aware, the dividing line between what was a legitimate subsidy and what was stolen has still not been determined, although the govt and its agencies (for the moment) clearly want to pretend it was all stolen.

Time will tell, and then those who blithely choose to pretend it was all larceny because they have not the understanding of government processes and simply cannot be persuaded to see beyond the man in Dubai may prove to be embarrassed by their lack of understanding.

Time will tell.

Winnie

[halloween]

What "witch hunt"... 500billion baht has been stolen... Are you saying the Gov't (elected or not) should walk away?

well, so far as I am aware, the dividing line between what was a legitimate subsidy and what was stolen has still not been determined, although the govt and its agencies (for the moment) clearly want to pretend it was all stolen.

Time will tell, and then those who blithely choose to pretend it was all larceny because they have not the understanding of government processes and simply cannot be persuaded to see beyond the man in Dubai may prove to be embarrassed by their lack of understanding.

Time will tell.

Winnie

The dividing line is quite clear, simply because the government processes were ignored or bypassed. But the suit is being brought not over whether it was a legitimate subsidy or a scam, but how it was managed. Despite large expenditure, very little of it was reaching the stated intended recipients, and costs were mounting.

Huge losses accumulated over 2.5 years, and nothing was done to reduce those losses. In fact, lies were issued denying the loss, and its critics derided and punished. Failing to reduce loss, or at least attempting to take measures to reduce loss, and actively covering it up, is clear negligence (or worse) of those in office.

There is no need to see beyond Thaksin. He initiated the scheme, his proxy re-instated it, his appointed Ministers ran it, and PTP MPs paid by him to vote to order endorsed it.

[tuanku]

The fake G2G deal was to make it look as if the rice had been sold, so that when it was removed from storage by someone else to sell somewhere else it wouldn't be missed. Any "payments made" were necessarily fictional an the Chinese companies were participating in the scam, presumably for a share of the rewards - is this correct?

[rubl]

Too funny for words - almost!

Do you have any comment on the actual circumstances?

Seems more like fraudsters caught when they were no longer in a position to prevent investigation or detection.

If those cheques are in the possession of the authorities then that is going to take some explaining.

If former ministers or their mates were fraudulant or corrupt, then toss them in prison and throw away the key, I have no patience with people who break society's laws for their own advantage, whether it is Thaksin or Prayuth or any of his sponsors or anyone else. Same goes for Yingluck, Thaksin's son, anyone. If they are guilty, then imprison them, end of story, I will shed no tears for any of them.

The problem is that everyone I know suspects that Mr P is so desperate to 'uproot the Thaksin regime' that he is not above manufacturing evidence or causing it to be manufactured, or instructing the courts as to what their verdict should be. Those of us with a brain know perfectly well who is sponsoring him and why he seized power from an elected government. We also know he is comprehensively out of his depth and has achieved nothing of any consequence in the 2 years since.

He appears to have no faith in the Thai courts so judging from what he has said, he isn't going to wait for due process, but is proposing to assume YL is guilty and try to recover the alleged losses from her her without a trial. As a lesson to Thaksin no doubt.

That is just as criminal as any of the the alleged actions he complains about, and that's without allegations of treason, which the international community appears to both be aware of and resent like hell. It's one reason his popularity has declined dramatically in recent weeks. A poll was published on TV recently (I think they said the Bangkok Post commissioned it - you can't get much more junta-supporting than that). It said that 78% of people surveyed believe that the constitution draft is _____ (either to be trusted or not to be trusted - you fill in the blanks, I don't want soldiers kicking in my door thanks very much).

So I suggest that if it is correct, the government is already in deep doo-doo and sinking. Unless they rort the outcome, they can only accept or ignore a failed plebiscite, and if they ignore it or press ahead with their own, no-choice constitution (as has already been threatened), then the scenario I suggested a few days ago seems like a very real possibility, even accepting that the population are Thais, usually compliant and who will normally accept any old nonsense from authority. Everything has limits, even Thainess.

Dark days ahead perhaps? Maybe. It's almost keeping head down time folx. Less than 3 months and counting... Every day I see more evidence of that small group of people I mentioned a couple of days ago influencing what happens in Thailand. I don't know them but I wouldn't be messing with them, what they try to achieve seems to happen. Prayuth can please himself what he does, in my view he's already half-way under the bus.

Winnie

"The problem is that everyone I know suspects that Mr P is so desperate to 'uproot the Thaksin regime' that he is not above manufacturing evidence or causing it to be manufactured, or instructing the courts as to what their verdict should be."

Nice innuendo and meaningless. Also totally unnecessary as the fake G2G deals started to be exposed in November 2012

2012-11-27

"Varong backed his case by saying that one of the buyers, Guangzhou-based GSSG Import and Export Corporation, was actually represented by a Thai man called Rathanit Sojirakul, who later authorised Phichit-based Nimon Rakdi to since a contract to purchase 5 million tonnes of rice on the company's behalf.

The Democrat pointed out that Rathanit was a close aide to Pheu Thai MP Rapeephan Phongruangrong, who is the wife of red-shirt leader Arisman Phongruangrong."

https://sg.entertainment.yahoo.com/news/thailand-rice-deals-china-fake-says-opposition-060002460.html

2013-03-23

"Amidst doubts about the transparency of government-to-government (G2G) rice deals, the Commerce Ministry yesterday said the result of its investigation into a sales contract with China's state-owned GSSG enterprise showed it was clean."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Clean-chit-for-rice-deal-with-China-30202533.html

[phoenixdoglover]

The fake G2G deal was to make it look as if the rice had been sold, so that when it was removed from storage by someone else to sell somewhere else it wouldn't be missed. Any "payments made" were necessarily fictional an the Chinese companies were participating in the scam, presumably for a share of the rewards - is this correct?

I believe the motivation for the fraud is that the price of the rice to be delivered through G2G deals was heavily discounted.

So yes, the idea was to simulate a G2G deal, but to have the rice actually purchased by private entities in Thailand, who could then resell the cheaper rice for a tidy profit. And yes, a few Chinese partners in the scam would help with the simulation of G2G.

[marinediscoking]

The same Junta supporters are trying every which way to spin this press release. Just like all the others, there is no "smoking gun" just another statement that any judge would throw out of court without merit. You people are really getting desperate and look more and more like fools which is exactly who these releases like these are meant for.

[IMA_FARANG]

You miss the point.

i suspect this Rice never existed, no attempt was ever made to ship this non-existant Rice.

This so called government to government "Rice Deal" was simply a cover-up story for missing Rice that had already been stolen by other people and sold by government officials.

In short the whole "government to government" Rice deal was a con from the very beginning. to try to explain where a lot of supposedly "stored" Rice had suddenly vanished to.

[Winniedapu]

something lost intranslation, my interpretation is that they are holding the uncashed cheques

Your desperation to defend your beloved junta has you conjuring something out of nothing.

There is no logic or reason to this ridiculous witch hunt, only fools see it otherwise.

You backed the wrong horse, your wiggle room is fast disappearing, a day of reckoning approaches.

How bad must it get? At what stage will you concede your error?

obviously your understanding of english is well below par and makes your name a total laugh, what part of "thai businessmen paid the cheques and not chinese companies" dont you understand. The cheques were written by thai companies not chinese ones, thats why they are being held as evidence to show that it was not chinese companies(govt to govt) actually buying the rice but thai ones, this is why it is a fake deal. Only someone that cannot understand basic english would not understand what has been written , then again maybe all the shin apologists are incapable of actually seeing the truth when it is put up in front of them. This has nothing to do with the current pm, it is an actual fraud committed by members of the ptp govt overseen by yl and they are the ones that are in court. If the general tries to do any of the same I would like to think he will also end up in court seeing fraud is a chargeable offence in Thailand, hopefully you can do more than write a name that doesnt really suit and now understand your heroes screwed up severely

Hmmmmm. .. Hasn't the general granted himself full amnesty?

Er yes. For what he has done (I wonder why he felt that was necessary if he had not committed any crime? Also for what he might do in the future. Why would he do that if he didn't intend to commit more crimes?

Seems like the actions of someone who knows he is guilty or will be, and doesn't want to face the same music he insists others must face.

Winnie

[Winniedapu]

I read it 3 times! !!!

How did they confiscate money that was never paid? ??

And anyway, if they were not authorised to buy it, then the (not paid money ) should be returned immediately as thailand should never have accepted it.

When you say "......as thailand should never have accepted it." do you mean the corrupt PTP ministers who initiated the scheme, or someone else?

The disappointing thing here is this article is so poorly written that is quite confusing and ambiguous at the very least, would be nice to have names dates etc...

So we have one Chinese government company that is authorized to buy,( then that deal should have gone ahead as no problem)

Tthen three Chinese non government wanting to buy, The question is Who gives the "authority" to buy rice? The Thai government or the Chinese government? If is the Thai gov' that gives "authority" then there is a problem, BUT As we all well know the Chinese are quite practiced at fake stuff such as baby's milk, fake eggs, truffle's, fake steamed pork buns, and well just about anything you can think of so why not fake Chinese gov company's?

And if the Chinese are the ones who give the "authority" then why would Thailand gov' be accountable?

As for checks being sent then never paid,

So who is in the wrong here?

It was a fraud. Designed by people in government, related to people in government, friends with people in government and their cronies.

Fraudulent G2G deals so rice could be purchased at the much lower export G2G price, then never physically exported by instead sold on the home market at much higher prices.

Those particular Chinese companies, AFAIK, do not have the appropriate Chinese government licenses to import rice. But as the deal was a fraud, and they were never actually going to pay for the rice or import it that didn't matter. Presumably they received some considerations for their part. The Thai companies and individuals that issued the cheques were going to sell the rice on the home market, at much higher prices, thus pocketing nice profits. They were defrauding the Thai Treasury in doing so.

If you followed all the other threads on this fraud, and you commented on some, then you'd be able to piece together including from this poorly written article.

Who is wrong - the criminals who tried to commit a fraud, believing that because they were in government, related to someone in government, friends or cronies of someone in government that they were above the law and would never get caught. The protection of being able to block investigating agencies only lasts while you are in power. Yingluck, as Chair of the rice scheme, and PM, either turned a blind eye, or was simply negligent in her responsibilities. Believe what you will on that one. Admittedly, hard to stop criminals determined to commit a fraud, but she did refuse to give details of G2G deals saying either they were state secrets or the buyers wanted them kept secret.

Those integral to the fraud are facing charges in court. These cheques, if in evidence, will indeed be damning.

Piece together... I see, Isn't that something you do when you don't have enough information? Like the 9/11 conspiracy theories? And that are something - where all the little green men landed.

"These cheques, if in evidence, will indeed be damning."

Well they either will be or won't be. How about we wait and see rather than trying to peer into our crystal ball? Then we'll be preaching from the basis of fact rather than speculation. Speculation is often tinged by what we would like to happen rather than what is likely to happen.

Winnie

[phoenixdoglover]

something lost intranslation, my interpretation is that they are holding the uncashed cheques

Your desperation to defend your beloved junta has you conjuring something out of nothing.

There is no logic or reason to this ridiculous witch hunt, only fools see it otherwise.

You backed the wrong horse, your wiggle room is fast disappearing, a day of reckoning approaches.

How bad must it get? At what stage will you concede your error?

obviously your understanding of english is well below par and makes your name a total laugh, what part of "thai businessmen paid the cheques and not chinese companies" dont you understand. The cheques were written by thai companies not chinese ones, thats why they are being held as evidence to show that it was not chinese companies(govt to govt) actually buying the rice but thai ones, this is why it is a fake deal. Only someone that cannot understand basic english would not understand what has been written , then again maybe all the shin apologists are incapable of actually seeing the truth when it is put up in front of them. This has nothing to do with the current pm, it is an actual fraud committed by members of the ptp govt overseen by yl and they are the ones that are in court. If the general tries to do any of the same I would like to think he will also end up in court seeing fraud is a chargeable offence in Thailand, hopefully you can do more than write a name that doesnt really suit and now understand your heroes screwed up severely

Hmmmmm. .. Hasn't the general granted himself full amnesty?

Er yes. For what he has done (I wonder why he felt that was necessary if he had not committed any crime? Also for what he might do in the future. Why would he do that if he didn't intend to commit more crimes?

Seems like the actions of someone who knows he is guilty or will be, and doesn't want to face the same music he insists others must face.

Winnie

I figure the General's self-amnesty is worth the price of the paper it's printed on.

I figure he knows that.

Which may explain why, when he is speaking, his eyes dart about so much.

Like a canary with the cage door open.

[Winniedapu]

Very possible given that we're talking about Thais - who tend to be... erm... 'ethically challenged'. No?

The interesting thing is that the people frothing and salivating at the prospect of some red-tinged skullduggery are oddly quiet when the PM declines to submit his assets to public scrutin, or when the PM's brother makes an

honest m,istake' by including 3 army bank accounts as his personal property, or when that same brother bypasses procedures and appoint his own son to an army officership, having had the authorisation marked 'secret'.

I probably ask for way too much but the mark of a charlatan is a lack of even-handedness and a surfeit of bigotry.

Winnie

[Winniedapu]

So, the have impounded funds that never existed.

Because they were not authorised, they were fake?

Sonuds like the same junta logic, impounding people who committed no crimes and an unauthorised fake government.

something lost intranslation, my interpretation is that they are holding the uncashed cheques

Your desperation to defend your beloved junta has you conjuring something out of nothing.

There is no logic or reason to this ridiculous witch hunt, only fools see it otherwise.

You backed the wrong horse, your wiggle room is fast disappearing, a day of reckoning approaches.

How bad must it get? At what stage will you concede your error?

What "witch hunt"... 500billion baht has been stolen... Are you saying the Gov't (elected or not) should walk away?

Stolen? Speculated but not yet shown. 500bn? Speculated but not yet shown. Unless you know something nobody else knows.

At the moment, these are nothing but conspiracy theories for the anti-democratic brigade. Should we all wait and see what happens maybe? Who knows? you might be right, we are talking about Thailand after all.

Feeding frenzies are all very well, but shouldn't we wait until there is some genuine blood in the water first? That way we get to preserve our dignity a bit.

Winie

[Winniedapu]

The same Junta supporters are trying every which way to spin this press release. Just like all the others, there is no "smoking gun" just another statement that any judge would throw out of court without merit. You people are really getting desperate and look more and more like fools which is exactly who these releases like these are meant for.

Indeed. I don't even allow my dog to salivate and run around in circles at the prospect of his favourite food, much less should educated people do it. It's really not very dignified, though it is instructive in a perverse sort of way.

[Winniedapu]

So, the have impounded funds that never existed.

Because they were not authorised, they were fake?

Sonuds like the same junta logic, impounding people who committed no crimes and an unauthorised fake government.

something lost intranslation, my interpretation is that they are holding the uncashed cheques

Your desperation to defend your beloved junta has you conjuring something out of nothing.

There is no logic or reason to this ridiculous witch hunt, only fools see it otherwise.

You backed the wrong horse, your wiggle room is fast disappearing, a day of reckoning approaches.

How bad must it get? At what stage will you concede your error?

obviously your understanding of english is well below par and makes your name a total laugh, what part of "thai businessmen paid the cheques and not chinese companies" dont you understand. The cheques were written by thai companies not chinese ones, thats why they are being held as evidence to show that it was not chinese companies(govt to govt) actually buying the rice but thai ones, this is why it is a fake deal. Only someone that cannot understand basic english would not understand what has been written , then again maybe all the shin apologists are incapable of actually seeing the truth when it is put up in front of them. This has nothing to do with the current pm, it is an actual fraud committed by members of the ptp govt overseen by yl and they are the ones that are in court. If the general tries to do any of the same I would like to think he will also end up in court seeing fraud is a chargeable offence in Thailand, hopefully you can do more than write a name that doesnt really suit and now understand your heroes screwed up severely

Well, fraud may be a chargeable offence in Thailand, but it appears treason by a serving soldier isn't.

Winnie

[Winniedapu]

What "witch hunt"... 500billion baht has been stolen... Are you saying the Gov't (elected or not) should walk away?

well, so far as I am aware, the dividing line between what was a legitimate subsidy and what was stolen has still not been determined, although the govt and its agencies (for the moment) clearly want to pretend it was all stolen.

Time will tell, and then those who blithely choose to pretend it was all larceny because they have not the understanding of government processes and simply cannot be persuaded to see beyond the man in Dubai may prove to be embarrassed by their lack of understanding.

Time will tell.

Winnie

The dividing line is quite clear, simply because the government processes were ignored or bypassed. But the suit is being brought not over whether it was a legitimate subsidy or a scam, but how it was managed. Despite large expenditure, very little of it was reaching the stated intended recipients, and costs were mounting.

Huge losses accumulated over 2.5 years, and nothing was done to reduce those losses. In fact, lies were issued denying the loss, and its critics derided and punished. Failing to reduce loss, or at least attempting to take measures to reduce loss, and actively covering it up, is clear negligence (or worse) of those in office.

There is no need to see beyond Thaksin. He initiated the scheme, his proxy re-instated it, his appointed Ministers ran it, and PTP MPs paid by him to vote to order endorsed it.

The last paragraph eclares a verdict. "There is no need to see beyond Thaksin"

I stopped being interested at that point. When fanaticism and bsession rears their ugly heads, sensible discussion is no longer feasible.

Winnie

[rubl]

Interesting, but this topic is not about Thaksin anyway

[sendintheclowns]

"All the world's a stage and we are merely prawns".... I read reports that Mr. T. met with visiting TRT exMP's. He explained that he has a 'trump card' . If the proposed Constitution is passed, TRT will boycott the next election. Not unexpected, as analyses of it say that it weakens the 'old party' system of influence peddling., ( from which the country has suffered for the past 20 years). An example of what I mean was contained in a well-written commentary on Banharm, earlier this month, in the BP.