The term "oriental" -- insulting and outdated?

[klauskunkel]

Gotta ask an "oriental person" if they feel insulted by the term. Take a poll, find a percentage, make a decision.

But, it only affects the government's use of terminology, regular citizens can still order a "oriental chicken salad" at California Pizza Kitchen, at least for now. Once the terminology ban sneaks it's way into mainstream, why, the "oriental" Asians may discover ammunition for litigation, obviously desired by the federal government.

Maybe one can replace it with "The People and Things and Attributes Formerly Known as Oriental", or TPATAAFKAO. ROTFLMAO....

PS: I am always thrilled to see the government has it's priorities straight and sorted. Good job as always.

Edited May 28, 2016 by klauskunkel

[StreetCowboy]

I suppose Americans would struggle with a proper understanding of the Orient, since the Far East is to their West.

I assume Orient is still a kosher term for a football club, though?

SC

[razer]

I always thought the word Oriental, a bit exotic. It's just a distraction from real issues like the bathroom nonsense. People are actually paid to dream up this kind of crap and get into the media.

[Jingthing]

Obama is evil and as has been implementing Orwellian language play. The US government has no right to manipulate people's personal vernacular.

"Oriental" is used more than "Occidental" just as "Westerner" is used more than "Easterner".

I will continue to use whatever word I choose and screw those who judge me as having bad intentions in my attempts to communicate as concisely as possible.

The topic is about a bill that passed with full bipartisan support in BOTH houses of the U.S. congress, the house and the senate, both of which are controlled by majorities of the OPPOSITION party to Obama. Bills require the executive branch, the president, to sign them. That is Obama's role. Maybe save your powder for something that you can actually fairly blame on President Obama.

[StreetCowboy]

Obama is evil and as has been implementing Orwellian language play. The US government has no right to manipulate people's personal vernacular.

"Oriental" is used more than "Occidental" just as "Westerner" is used more than "Easterner".

I will continue to use whatever word I choose and screw those who judge me as having bad intentions in my attempts to communicate as concisely as possible.

The topic is about a bill that passed with full bipartisan support in BOTH houses of the U.S. congress, the house and the senate, both of which are controlled by majorities of the OPPOSITION party to Obama. Bills require the executive branch, the president, to sign them. That is Obama's role. Maybe save your powder for something that you can actually fairly blame on President Obama.

If we're going to get into wacky conspiracy theories, I think the masterminds behind this particular piece of Orwellian thinkspeak will be inscrutable yet fiendishly clever Orientals, seeking to suppress their sub-continental neighbours to the status of undescribable people. Flash Gordon would have known how to deal with such merciless mingery.

SC

[smotherb]

How about occidental was it banned as well?

Since 2/3 of the world's population lives in asia it could be reasonably argued that occidendals are the minority group and, as such the term is non exclusive - or inclusive & should be banned. ....

This pc sh!t is getting ridiculous....and again aimed to create a division......

It might be an out dated term relating to people coming from the orient as opposed to "the west"....but it never was a racial slur - until it was made to be, (now)....This administration prefers division over unity......Divide & conquer/destroy....tear down....

What's wrong with using Negroid, Mongoloid and Caucasoid?

Many years ago at university, I was reprimanded by an English Composition professor for not being gender-inclusive in my writing. Her major complaint was that I used the pronoun "he" most of the time--yeah, when referring to men or unknown genders, I used "he" and when referring to women I used "she"; go figure. She said I should use "she" when the gender is unknown and more inclusive words such as chairperson and anchorperson at all times. Well, I responded with short paper entitled, "Personkind." As the title might indicate, I inundated the piece with words such as huperson, personager, foreperson, workperson, personpower, personufacture, personipulate, personicure, personifold, etc., and suggested women use "she" as the pronoun of unknown gender and men use "he." The professor took me to the dean for my insubordination. I suffered no penalty, was transferred to another professor's class, and the new school policy was women use "she" and men use "he" for unknown gender. Ah, but that was in another day.

[SoiBiker]

What a crock of s**t. Oriental by definition means "from the East" there is no insulting overtones to it. Occidental means "from the West". The USA government should have more things to do then be bloody idiots which they obviously are. Thank goodness I don't live in the USA. Negro is also a word I think you will find in the non Obama dictionary.

And that's what's wrong with the term. It presumes that where one group is from is the center of the map, and other areas are described with reference to that. It's not the East to the people that live there.

[atyclb]

oriental was not coined or meant to be offensive. just meant someone from the orient. some words are coined to be offensive.

political correctness is part of social engineering to create a docile and ever obedient society afraid to speak their mind

watch Dr Ben Carsons speech about political correctness.

[SoiBiker]

It's an outdated word, referring to an outdated concept - that white people were the most important, and the world revolved around them.

I can see that some here haven't quite moved on from that era.

[Cory1848]

How about occidental was it banned as well?

Since 2/3 of the world's population lives in asia it could be reasonably argued that occidendals are the minority group and, as such the term is non exclusive - or inclusive & should be banned. ....

This pc sh!t is getting ridiculous....and again aimed to create a division......

It might be an out dated term relating to people coming from the orient as opposed to "the west"....but it never was a racial slur - until it was made to be, (now)....This administration prefers division over unity......Divide & conquer/destroy....tear down....

What's wrong with using Negroid, Mongoloid and Caucasoid?

Many years ago at university, I was reprimanded by an English Composition professor for not being gender-inclusive in my writing. Her major complaint was that I used the pronoun "he" most of the time--yeah, when referring to men or unknown genders, I used "he" and when referring to women I used "she"; go figure. She said I should use "she" when the gender is unknown and more inclusive words such as chairperson and anchorperson at all times. Well, I responded with short paper entitled, "Personkind." As the title might indicate, I inundated the piece with words such as huperson, personager, foreperson, workperson, personpower, personufacture, personipulate, personicure, personifold, etc., and suggested women use "she" as the pronoun of unknown gender and men use "he." The professor took me to the dean for my insubordination. I suffered no penalty, was transferred to another professor's class, and the new school policy was women use "she" and men use "he" for unknown gender. Ah, but that was in another day.

I guess you’re a man; otherwise, you may realize that many women in fact do feel excluded by gendered terms, when perfectly natural nongendered terms are available. These days, in written English at least, words like businessperson, chairperson, police officer, and fire fighter are more commonly used (in general contexts) than their male-centric forerunners. Writers who continue to use gendered terms sound more and more like they’re linguistic Luddites, or are making the specific point that they are sexist.

Admittedly, English is unkind when it comes to the singular pronoun. In most contexts, using “he” to mean “he or she” is perfectly reasonable. It depends on the writer, and the intended reader. Your professor sounds like she was a bit over the top on that one.

As has been pointed out frequently in this thread, languages evolve. Let it happen!

[MediaWatcher]

Who really cares, how many people use the word.

[MediaWatcher]

It's an outdated word, referring to an outdated concept - that white people were the most important, and the world revolved around them.

I can see that some here haven't quite moved on from that era.

I think your thinking is what is "outdated", the word has NOTHING to do with "that white people were the most important, and the world revolved around them'

the term "Orient" derives from the Latin word oriens meaning "east." Geez, some people just don't know what they are talking about, but for some very strange reason, still want to show the world just how stupid they are.

[SoiBiker]

It's an outdated word, referring to an outdated concept - that white people were the most important, and the world revolved around them.

I can see that some here haven't quite moved on from that era.

I think your thinking is what is "outdated", the word has NOTHING to do with "that white people were the most important, and the world revolved around them'

the term "Orient" derives from the Latin word oriens meaning "east." Geez, some people just don't know what they are talking about, but for some very strange reason, still want to show the world just how stupid they are.

East of where, though?

I think you're missing the point.

[MediaWatcher]

What a crock of s**t. Oriental by definition means "from the East" there is no insulting overtones to it. Occidental means "from the West". The USA government should have more things to do then be bloody idiots which they obviously are. Thank goodness I don't live in the USA. Negro is also a word I think you will find in the non Obama dictionary.

And that's what's wrong with the term. It presumes that where one group is from is the center of the map, and other areas are described with reference to that. It's not the East to the people that live there.

Rubbish, it is defined by the "imaginary" line that divides Europe from Asia.

[ljd1308]

What a crock of s**t. Oriental by definition means "from the East" there is no insulting overtones to it. Occidental means "from the West". The USA government should have more things to do then be bloody idiots which they obviously are. Thank goodness I don't live in the USA. Negro is also a word I think you will find in the non Obama dictionary.

And that's what's wrong with the term. It presumes that where one group is from is the center of the map, and other areas are described with reference to that. It's not the East to the people that live there.

Rubbish, it is defined by the "imaginary" line that divides Europe from Asia.

Pretty sure it was East of Rome, hence the thought that Rome was the centre of the world.

Pretty sure Soibiker is referring to the fact that Rome isn't actually the centre of the world. Is China still the East for Americans? Or is it the West?

[Emster23]

Ok, Oriental is Euro-centric, as Asia is to the East, and Oriente means east. That is why I am a westerner, even though I fly to the west to get to Asia from USA.

Anyone demanding Oriental Princess makeup shop drop it's name? Then again we have "Jewish American Princess" aka JAP. My view is that a slur is a slur depending on how it is delivered, not so much the word. Heck my black, er African American students would call each other the "N" word (outside of my classroom). And then Kerry's wife got grief for saying she is African American (white, born in Africa, naturalized US citizen), which is more true for her than most Af-Ams in USA.

This is so disorienting. Think I need to attend an orientation meeting....

[connda]

Considering some overly 'politically correct' individual(s) arbitrarily decided that the term was 'insulting' or 'outdated' or 'offensive' does not make it so. I'm amazed that the average person tends to simply accept any 'dictate' from 'authority figures', 'government edicts', or 'experts'. That's rather sad.

Oriental. It's a word that historically has no pejorative meaning inherently attached to it. Oriental --> i.e., a person from the 'Orient'. If it's been defined as something different and then assigned a pejorative meaning, then someone is engaging in social engineering for the purposes of exerting power and control over others.

But if you're a believer in all things PC, then you have no problems with the global push to restrict freedom of expression and thought by 'outlawing' certain words and expressions. Sure, global governments and entities can (and do) restrict freedom of express (which is an natural or inalienable right, but I digress) but the end result of suppressing expression and thought is akin to tossing the issues in a pressure vessel and turning the heat up to high.

But at the end of the day, what difference does it make. Historically the world alternates between periods of oppressive 'Dark Ages' and more 'Enlightened' periods of freedom (e.g., freedom of expression, freedom of thought). We just happen to be on the downward slope toward another oppressive dark age. However, in even the most oppressive periods of times, the seeds of 'enlightenment' are still planted and nurtured by some; and even in the most enlightened times, the seeds of 'oppression' are still planted and nurtured by others; ad-infinitum. That's the way of this world.

Well, imho, of course. Your mileage may vary.

Edited May 28, 2016 by connda

[atyclb]

here is an interesting take on rascism

# chinese commercial promoting laundry whitening bleach

# italian commercial promoting color safe bleach (i believe)

[ljd1308]

Considering some overly 'politically correct' individual(s) arbitrarily decided that the term was 'insulting' or 'outdated' or 'offensive' does not make it so. I'm amazed that the average person tends to simply accept any 'dictate' from 'authority figures', 'government edicts', or 'experts'. That's rather sad.

Oriental. It's a word that historically has no pejorative meaning inherently attached to it. Oriental --> i.e., a person from the 'Orient'. If it's been defined as something different and then assigned a pejorative meaning, then someone is engaging in social engineering for the purposes of exerting power and control over others.

But if you're a believer in all things PC, then you have no problems with the global push to restrict freedom of expression and thought by 'outlawing' certain words and expressions. Sure, global governments and entities can (and do) restrict freedom of express (which is an natural or inalienable right, but I digress) but the end result of suppressing expression and thought is akin to tossing the issues in a pressure vessel and turning the heat up to high.

But at the end of the day, what difference does it make. Historically the world alternates between periods of oppressive 'Dark Ages' and more 'Enlightened' periods of freedom (e.g., freedom of expression, freedom of thought). We just happen to be on the downward slope toward another oppressive dark age. However, in even the most oppressive periods of times, the seeds of 'enlightenment' are still planted and nurtured by some; and even in the most enlightened times, the seeds of 'oppression' are still planted and nurtured by others; ad-infinitum. That's the way of this world.

Well, imho, of course. Your mileage may vary.

The highlighted bit hits the nail on the head, but what is wrong in changing it of someone(anyone) gets offended by it? What does it cost you to say Asian instead of Oriental?

It literally makes no difference, they are interchangeable and people would know your meaning......the only difference is one could potentially offend someone. So why use that one?

[lavender19]

What's The Oriental Hotel going to be called now then?

[Jingthing]

What's The Oriental Hotel going to be called now then?

The Oriental Hotel.

[oldlakey]

Oriental means exotic, yellow skin, slit eyes, small penis. Negro means black skin, good at dancing, big penis. Farang means big nose, white skin, bad at dancing. Yeah, maybe Obhama has a point.

Less of the big nose mate

[D3030]

So, if you're a U.S. Government employee, that says "Negro" in the same sentence as Barrack Obama, you may be fired for being a racist..

I'm assuming Obama was tired of being called a negro president, and there was nothing he could do about it?

Until now..

[Jingthing]

So, if you're a U.S. Government employee, that says "Negro" in the same sentence as Barrack Obama, you may be fired for being a racist..

I'm assuming Obama was tired of being called a negro president, and there was nothing he could do about it?

Until now..

No.

It's about documents, not speech.

But people would think such a person is a MORON and they'd be right.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Jingthing

[micmichd]

Gotta ask an "oriental person" if they feel insulted by the term. Take a poll, find a percentage, make a decision.

But, it only affects the government's use of terminology, regular citizens can still order a "oriental chicken salad" at California Pizza Kitchen, at least for now. Once the terminology ban sneaks it's way into mainstream, why, the "oriental" Asians may discover ammunition for litigation, obviously desired by the federal government.

Maybe one can replace it with "The People and Things and Attributes Formerly Known as Oriental", or TPATAAFKAO. ROTFLMAO....

PS: I am always thrilled to see the government has it's priorities straight and sorted. Good job as always.

Never mind, in Germany they even discriminate "Miss" ("das Fraeulein",) from "Misses" (die Frau"). Germans in fact switch over to calling everybody a "person" - never knowing what they mean. Feminists even go so far as to call the moon a female "Mondin" (no translation for this in English), so they're not so far from mentally castrating each other.

[arunsakda]

My Moo Ban is "The Oriental" does this mean the President wont come to stay?

No. A Moo Bahn is a collection of objects (houses) not Asian people. Oriental Rugs, Oriental Hotel, Oriental Express train, all the same.

[StreetCowboy]

Considering some overly 'politically correct' individual(s) arbitrarily decided that the term was 'insulting' or 'outdated' or 'offensive' does not make it so. I'm amazed that the average person tends to simply accept any 'dictate' from 'authority figures', 'government edicts', or 'experts'. That's rather sad.

Oriental. It's a word that historically has no pejorative meaning inherently attached to it. Oriental --> i.e., a person from the 'Orient'. If it's been defined as something different and then assigned a pejorative meaning, then someone is engaging in social engineering for the purposes of exerting power and control over others.

But if you're a believer in all things PC, then you have no problems with the global push to restrict freedom of expression and thought by 'outlawing' certain words and expressions. Sure, global governments and entities can (and do) restrict freedom of express (which is an natural or inalienable right, but I digress) but the end result of suppressing expression and thought is akin to tossing the issues in a pressure vessel and turning the heat up to high.

But at the end of the day, what difference does it make. Historically the world alternates between periods of oppressive 'Dark Ages' and more 'Enlightened' periods of freedom (e.g., freedom of expression, freedom of thought). We just happen to be on the downward slope toward another oppressive dark age. However, in even the most oppressive periods of times, the seeds of 'enlightenment' are still planted and nurtured by some; and even in the most enlightened times, the seeds of 'oppression' are still planted and nurtured by others; ad-infinitum. That's the way of this world.

Well, imho, of course. Your mileage may vary.

The highlighted bit hits the nail on the head, but what is wrong in changing it of someone(anyone) gets offended by it? What does it cost you to say Asian instead of Oriental?

It literally makes no difference, they are interchangeable and people would know your meaning......the only difference is one could potentially offend someone. So why use that one?

They don't mean the same. Are you a bit slow on the uptake?

Asians are people from Asia. Orientals are people from East Asia - Japan, China, Korea, and perhaps South East Asia - Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and the Philippines. The correct watered-down, politically correct, emasculated term for Orientals would be East Asians, to distinguish them from South Asians or West Asians, who are quite different.

SC

SC

[arunsakda]

Nobody from Japan thinks they are Asians. (Maybe Japanese college students in the US would self identify as Asian. Certainly not oriental).

Japanese are Japanese. Asians are non-Japanese people from East Asia. Don't believe me , Go ask one.

The term "Oriental" is outdated and archaic, reserved for inanimate objects like rugs, hotel chains, pottery, arts, and Other things of a decidedly eastern and non-occidental character.

Edited May 28, 2016 by arunsakda

[ljd1308]

Considering some overly 'politically correct' individual(s) arbitrarily decided that the term was 'insulting' or 'outdated' or 'offensive' does not make it so. I'm amazed that the average person tends to simply accept any 'dictate' from 'authority figures', 'government edicts', or 'experts'. That's rather sad.

Oriental. It's a word that historically has no pejorative meaning inherently attached to it. Oriental --> i.e., a person from the 'Orient'. If it's been defined as something different and then assigned a pejorative meaning, then someone is engaging in social engineering for the purposes of exerting power and control over others.

But if you're a believer in all things PC, then you have no problems with the global push to restrict freedom of expression and thought by 'outlawing' certain words and expressions. Sure, global governments and entities can (and do) restrict freedom of express (which is an natural or inalienable right, but I digress) but the end result of suppressing expression and thought is akin to tossing the issues in a pressure vessel and turning the heat up to high.

But at the end of the day, what difference does it make. Historically the world alternates between periods of oppressive 'Dark Ages' and more 'Enlightened' periods of freedom (e.g., freedom of expression, freedom of thought). We just happen to be on the downward slope toward another oppressive dark age. However, in even the most oppressive periods of times, the seeds of 'enlightenment' are still planted and nurtured by some; and even in the most enlightened times, the seeds of 'oppression' are still planted and nurtured by others; ad-infinitum. That's the way of this world.

Well, imho, of course. Your mileage may vary.

The highlighted bit hits the nail on the head, but what is wrong in changing it of someone(anyone) gets offended by it? What does it cost you to say Asian instead of Oriental?

It literally makes no difference, they are interchangeable and people would know your meaning......the only difference is one could potentially offend someone. So why use that one?

They don't mean the same. Are you a bit slow on the uptake?

Asians are people from Asia. Orientals are people from East Asia - Japan, China, Korea, and perhaps South East Asia - Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and the Philippines. The correct watered-down, politically correct, emasculated term for Orientals would be East Asians, to distinguish them from South Asians or West Asians, who are quite different.

SC

SC

I may be a bit slow on the uptake, however you have just agreed with me by listing more socially acceptable terms you can use instead of Oriental.

If you read the whole thread you will also see the original meaning was east of Rome, so not really just "East Asians" but if that is your interpretation,just say "east Asians" rather than "Asian" or "Oriental".....see how easy it is to be PC? That is my point.

Simply don't be offensive and everyone is happy, though as your first response was to call me slow you may not understand that.

[smotherb]

How about occidental was it banned as well?

Since 2/3 of the world's population lives in asia it could be reasonably argued that occidendals are the minority group and, as such the term is non exclusive - or inclusive & should be banned. ....

This pc sh!t is getting ridiculous....and again aimed to create a division......

It might be an out dated term relating to people coming from the orient as opposed to "the west"....but it never was a racial slur - until it was made to be, (now)....This administration prefers division over unity......Divide & conquer/destroy....tear down....

Well, I am pleased you were able to guess I was a man. I am even more pleased you got around to my point. Yes, my old professor was a bit over the top—just as I am suggesting this edict is.

It is apparent you also missed the fact it was a long time ago and terms such as chairperson, fire fighter, police officer were not commonplace. Consequently, when I used the huperson or personager terminology, I was being facetious; as the dean apparently saw—by the way, the dean was a woman.

I have no complaints using gender-neutral terms where applicable and I agree using “he” or “she” should be perfectly reasonable. However, to have men use “he” and women use “she” in their own communication seems to settle the unknown gender dispute for any offended parties, does it not?

As a university professor, I used the gender pronoun for the person to whom I was communicating in all gender unknown situations. Awkwardly, when lecturing to a coed class, I would say he/she or she/he. What a load of crap to have to do, lest I offend someone—of course, that is my opinion, but mine is the only opinion I can have, isn’t it?

Let words evolve? Sure, glad to, but to have them mandated; not so glad. Derogatory terms such as honky, greaser, wop, nigger, chink, etc., ad infinitum, should not be used—even though they still are. However, words such as oriental or occidental, Asian or European, are simply words which define geographic area more so than racial origin. If one takes offense at those words, I would hope they were offended by being referred to in a geographic sense rather than be insulted by the use of a recognized word for their racial area of origin.

Certainly, if you are looking for a specific region, country, culture, or religion of origin; other hyphenated terms are available such as: African-Hispanic-Caribbean-Jewish- American. That is if full demographic specifics is what you are seeking. However, why not use the common racial terms Negroid, Mongoloid, or Caucasoid, if you are trying to establish race?

If people are offended by those recognized terms, then mandate they be switched around; you know, Negroid for white people, Caucasoid for yellow people, and Mongoloid for black people. While we’re at it, we could just mandate using “he” as the feminine pronoun . . .

'

Edited part: Not sure how this happened. the above post is what I intended and posted here was part of my original post.

Well, I am pleased you were able to guess I was a man. I am even more pleased you got around to my point. Yes, my old professor was a bit over the top—just as I am suggesting this edict is.

It is apparent you also missed the fact it was a long time ago and terms such as chairperson, fire fighter, police officer were not commonplace. Consequently, when I used the huperson or personager terminology, I was being facetious; as the dean apparently saw—by the way, the dean was a woman.

I have no complaints using gender-neutral terms where applicable and I agree using “he” or “she” should be perfectly reasonable. However, to have men use “he” and women use “she” in their own communication seems to settle the unknown gender dispute for any offended parties, does it not?

As a university professor, I used the gender pronoun for the person to whom I was communicating in all gender unknown situations. Awkwardly, when lecturing to a coed class, I would say he/she or she/he. What a load of crap to have to do, lest I offend someone—of course, that is my opinion, but mine is the only opinion I can have, isn’t it?

Let words evolve? Sure, glad to, but to have them mandated; not so glad. Derogatory terms such as honky, greaser, wop, nigger, chink, etc., ad infinitum, should not be used—even though they still are. However, words such as oriental or occidental, Asian or European, are simply words which define geographic area more so than racial origin. If one takes offense at those words, I would hope they were offended by being referred to in a geographic sense rather than be insulted by the use of a recognized word for their racial area of origin.

Certainly, if you are looking for a specific region, country, culture, or religion of origin; other hyphenated terms are available such as: African-Hispanic-Caribbean-Jewish- American. That is if full demographic specifics is what you are seeking. However, why not use the common racial terms Negroid, Mongoloid, or Caucasoid, if you are trying to establish race?

If people are offended by those recognized terms, then mandate they be switched around; you know, Negroid for white people, Caucasoid for yellow people, and Mongoloid for black people. While we’re at it, we could just mandate using “he” as the feminine pronoun . . .

Edited May 28, 2016 by smotherb