Luk Krung becoming too Thai

[soalbundy]

I have a 9 year old British / Thai son. Since his birth i have only spoken English to him so he speaks reasonable English and i have taught him to read both Thai and English. He absorbs western culture from me and from English speaking Youtube programes but obviously his Thai school environment is having a greater effect. He has problems with accepting criticism,like a Thai, even constructively meant criticism. The other day he said to me,

''Why mama cooking so much fish''

'' You can only speak like that in Thai, in English you have to say, why is mama cooking so much fish''

'' AAAAAAAH !!! forget it''

''What's the matter? i am only trying to help you speak better English''

''Forget it OK,''

''Why are you so annoyed''

Blank stare and a complete cut off. A typical Thai reaction. Of course he has to be Thai but i thought that at home at least he could forget 'face' and be somewhat western if not completely. Anyone else have this problem ?

[tonray]

Actually in Thai he would likely say "why mama cooking fish so much"

[lostinisaan]

The roots of "your problem" might be deeper than you think. Some kids with a foreign daddy go through hell at school and not many of them want to talk about it.

I can give you an example what happened to our son, when he was in M. 2. Some guys were telling him that his "mom had found her "farang" somewhere at a bar beer and that she'd be a prostitute."

It didn't just happen once, he tried to keep that for himself until something strange happened.

An older guy was teasing him ( again) when he then lost his temper and knocked the much bigger guy out. He also warned him to never ever mention such bs again, or he'll hit him again.

Our son had to see the director and received a warning. From that time on nobody started teasing him again. He told me the whole story on the same evening with tears in his eyes.

And I've heard that a couple of times before when other foreigners' kids were the victims.

[KhaoNiaw]

Just let it go. He was focused on the question not on a language lesson. Correct it, don't make a big thing about it and answer his question.

If you're doing all the things you said then he'll be fine. My daughter's 23 now and though she's basically native in both Thai and English she can still do stuff like that when she's excited or just wants to get something over quickly. Sometimes she corrects herself and if I do it she'll probably just say 'oh yeah' or something. Bilinguals usually have one dominant language and that will be the one of the place/culture they're mostly in. If you took him back home to live, this would probably switch over. Anyway, as a child my daughter went through different phases of identity with her language and even if it can be a bit frustrating at times, you have to give them space to work things out.

Quite honestly though, you need to have a look at your own perception if you're thinking of your son's behaviour in terms of 'being Thai' and worrying about 'face' rather than 'being a kid' for example. It seems to be the fashion here to blame everything negative about Thailand on 'face,' which half the time is total nonsense and unhelpful stereotyping. I never saw any behaviour in my daughter which I would have put down to worrying about 'face'. You'll miss a lot of what's going on with your son if you simply blame any behaviour you don't like on 'being Thai' or on 'face'. Western kids easily accept being corrected or told what to do by their parents?

On lostinisaan's point, I can say that we never experienced anything like that. Through her childhood we were in the Bangkok suburbs and she was at an all-girl private school. She still has friends from her nursery and school days and even the street we used to live in years ago. I remember once, one of the neighbor's kids had a friend round and when I walked down the street the friend yelled out 'farang'. The neighbor's kid said 'That's not a farang. That's May's dad'. So I guess a luk-krung experience may be different depending on where you live.

Edited May 29, 2016 by KhaoNiaw

[soalbundy]

Just let it go. He was focused on the question not on a language lesson. Correct it, don't make a big thing about it and answer his question.

If you're doing all the things you said then he'll be fine. My daughter's 23 now and though she's basically native in both Thai and English she can still do stuff like that when she's excited or just wants to get something over quickly. Sometimes she corrects herself and if I do it she'll probably just say 'oh yeah' or something. Bilinguals usually have one dominant language and that will be the one of the place/culture they're mostly in. If you took him back home to live, this would probably switch over. Anyway, as a child my daughter went through different phases of identity with her language and even if it can be a bit frustrating at times, you have to give them space to work things out.

Quite honestly though, you need to have a look at your own perception if you're thinking of your son's behaviour in terms of 'being Thai' and worrying about 'face' rather than 'being a kid' for example. It seems to be the fashion here to blame everything negative about Thailand on 'face,' which half the time is total nonsense and unhelpful stereotyping. I never saw any behaviour in my daughter which I would have put down to worrying about 'face'. You'll miss a lot of what's going on with your son if you simply blame any behaviour you don't like on 'being Thai' or on 'face'. Western kids easily accept being corrected or told what to do by their parents?

On lostinisaan's point, I can say that we never experienced anything like that. Through her childhood we were in the Bangkok suburbs and she was at an all-girl private school. She still has friends from her nursery and school days and even the street we used to live in years ago. I remember once, one of the neighbor's kids had a friend round and when I walked down the street the friend yelled out 'farang'. The neighbor's kid said 'That's not a farang. That's May's dad'. So I guess a luk-krung experience may be different depending on where you live.

Yes maybe you are right, he was probably more focused on the question and got frustrated when i pulled him up on his English. I don't think i am too hung up on face, that is, i am not overtly looking for issues in that direction, he has two Thai step sisters and i have watched them grow up from little girls to young adults and i have very rarely had any 'face' issues with them. I like his school, we live in the country, i have spoken with some of his class mates who know that he is good at English in school but seemed quite amazed when i said that he was fluent, he doesn't want them to know because 'they will keep asking me what's this in English,what's that in English etc'' At first i thought maybe he was a little ashamed that his papa was British and not Thai but at home one day we had a small altercation where he insisted,''I'm an English boy'' to which i replied, ''Look at your birth certificate son'' Who knows, maybe he has an identity crisis. He seems well adjusted and has a very close relationship with my step daughters,who treat him like a little prince which i try,without success, to stop. I think too much.

[FritsSikkink]

Just let it go. He was focused on the question not on a language lesson. Correct it, don't make a big thing about it and answer his question.

If you're doing all the things you said then he'll be fine. My daughter's 23 now and though she's basically native in both Thai and English she can still do stuff like that when she's excited or just wants to get something over quickly. Sometimes she corrects herself and if I do it she'll probably just say 'oh yeah' or something. Bilinguals usually have one dominant language and that will be the one of the place/culture they're mostly in. If you took him back home to live, this would probably switch over. Anyway, as a child my daughter went through different phases of identity with her language and even if it can be a bit frustrating at times, you have to give them space to work things out.

Quite honestly though, you need to have a look at your own perception if you're thinking of your son's behaviour in terms of 'being Thai' and worrying about 'face' rather than 'being a kid' for example. It seems to be the fashion here to blame everything negative about Thailand on 'face,' which half the time is total nonsense and unhelpful stereotyping. I never saw any behaviour in my daughter which I would have put down to worrying about 'face'. You'll miss a lot of what's going on with your son if you simply blame any behaviour you don't like on 'being Thai' or on 'face'. Western kids easily accept being corrected or told what to do by their parents?

On lostinisaan's point, I can say that we never experienced anything like that. Through her childhood we were in the Bangkok suburbs and she was at an all-girl private school. She still has friends from her nursery and school days and even the street we used to live in years ago. I remember once, one of the neighbor's kids had a friend round and when I walked down the street the friend yelled out 'farang'. The neighbor's kid said 'That's not a farang. That's May's dad'. So I guess a luk-krung experience may be different depending on where you live.

Yes maybe you are right, he was probably more focused on the question and got frustrated when i pulled him up on his English. I don't think i am too hung up on face, that is, i am not overtly looking for issues in that direction, he has two Thai step sisters and i have watched them grow up from little girls to young adults and i have very rarely had any 'face' issues with them. I like his school, we live in the country, i have spoken with some of his class mates who know that he is good at English in school but seemed quite amazed when i said that he was fluent, he doesn't want them to know because 'they will keep asking me what's this in English,what's that in English etc'' At first i thought maybe he was a little ashamed that his papa was British and not Thai but at home one day we had a small altercation where he insisted,''I'm an English boy'' to which i replied, ''Look at your birth certificate son'' Who knows, maybe he has an identity crisis. He seems well adjusted and has a very close relationship with my step daughters,who treat him like a little prince which i try,without success, to stop. I think too much.

"At first i thought maybe he was a little ashamed that his papa was British and not Thai but at home one day we had a small altercation where he insisted,''I'm an English boy'' to which i replied, ''Look at your birth certificate son' "

"i thought that at home at least he could forget 'face' and be somewhat western if not completely"

"Luk Krung becoming too Thai"

It seem to me you have the nationality issue and not your son

Edited May 29, 2016 by FritsSikkink

[SantiSuk]

Similar issues abound in the UK. I recall lots of TV magazine/news programmes reporting on the issues faced by UK born children of immigrant families. Its not specific to Thai-falang mixed marriages in Thailand - anything cross-cultural is bound to throw up issues.

Stay loose, supportive and communicative?

[Saastrajaa]

Another way to look at might be this: he's not necessarily showing a preponderance of Thai cultural traits (being upset at losing face), he may be showing farang traits, such as lack of respect of elders, by talking back to you like that. That kind of lip to many Thai fathers would have gotten him a backhand sending him across the room! Now, mind you, I'm NOT suggesting that that's what you should have done! Just proposing another way of looking at it.

Anyway, as others have said, I wouldn't worry about it too much, unless it seems to become a pattern/habit. It sounds like you're doing everything right.

p.s. Before I get jumped on by one of the usual suspects, I'm also NOT saying that "all farangs disrespect their elders." But you gotta admit, it's one of those things that tends to set us apart from the Thais. Myself, I wouldn't have DARED talk that way to my father when I was 9...I most certainly would have gotten that backhand...

Edited June 1, 2016 by Saastrajaa

[Forethat]

soalbundy,

I know you're trying to do the right thing. But more than likely, so is your son. So the first thing we should conclude is that no one is at fault. And this is certainly not something that is related to being "Thai". So, now when we have cleared that out...

At this point I'd like to mention that language is not something that automagically appears in a child's mind, it is a gift handed by someone. In most situations, this gift is a combined effort by family, friends and the environment in which we live. If your son lives in an environment where Thai is the dominant language, it is only normal that Thai will become his main language. Therefore, YOU have to give him this gift. YOU have to give him the English language. This is YOUR responsibility. You need to talk to your son, read to your son and expose your son to the language you wish him to command.

Without going into details, let's just say that I have a ton of experience dealing with similar issues, and my best advice is that you stop highlighting grammatical errors in your sons language because that simply wont work. Humans learn language by repeating what we hear (this includes yourself, you learn Thai by listening, learning and repeating). With this in mind, what you SHOULD do, is to repeat your sons incorrect english, but do it grammatically correct. Show - not tell.

If your son asks "'Why mama cooking so much fish", the way to give him the gift of correctly spoken English is to SPEAK correct English. In this case, may I suggest that you reply by repeating his question, only this time grammatically correct, before you answer (and while you're at it - challenge your son to come up with a potential answer to his own question):

"Why is mama cooking so much fish? I dont know, what do you think?"

You have an incredibly challenging but equally rewarding task ahead of you. There WILL be periods when you will come across as someone who "doesn't suffer fools gladly", especially after repeating the same <deleted>**ing grammatical error hundreds of times without any sign of success (trust me...). And then, one day, your son will casually and without knowing for what reason, ask you "why is mama cooking so much fish?"

But it will never happen unless someone gives him the language.

Repeat.

Repeat.

Repeat.

And repeat again.

And again.

Good luck.