Thai will - free selection of heirs ?

[moogradod]

Is it true that I can – as a german national – make a valid will in Thailand (Thai law) after 1 year living in the county on a

TE Visa or Retirement Extension which enables me to name as sole beneficiary my wife even if other heirs would exist ?

Thanks for any comment.

Edited May 29, 2016 by moogradod

[Swiss1960]

Making a will has nothing to do with you visa / lenght of stay.

You can name who you want and specifically exclude "normal" heirs like kids from previous marriages. The question then is whether or not that will is legally enforceable by your wife in the countries where your assets are.

I.e. I can give all my Thai assets to my wife, therefore exclude my kids from the will, but this would NOT be possible for my Swiss assets, there my kids have the right for the legal minimum.

That is why many people with assets and legal heirs in different countries have more than one will.

[Bantex]

If you are excluding certain people from your will make sure you mention in the will that they are getting nothing or leave them a nominal sum such as 13 baht.

In some cases/countries they could argue in court that omitting them was an oversight on your part.

[bazza40]

Making a will has nothing to do with you visa / lenght of stay.

You can name who you want and specifically exclude "normal" heirs like kids from previous marriages. The question then is whether or not that will is legally enforceable by your wife in the countries where your assets are.

I.e. I can give all my Thai assets to my wife, therefore exclude my kids from the will, but this would NOT be possible for my Swiss assets, there my kids have the right for the legal minimum.

That is why many people with assets and legal heirs in different countries have more than one will.

Make sure the Thai will is in both Thai and your national language, and have the Thai version translated again independently.

My wills provide for the disposal of my assets in Thailand, and those in Australia. One will in Thailand, one will in Australia.

Edited May 30, 2016 by bazza40

[johndudorn]

My wife and I had our Thai will made two years ago. We were told that by Thai law it is 50% surviving spouse and 50% children... If some one can confirm different I think we would make some changes. In the states I have all to wife vs versa for me. If we die at the same time 50% to our kids (2) and 50% (3) her children, all in the US. I also have set up in the Thai will that the property is to be split 5 ways if we go at the same time... More assets in US but still very substantial here.. Not too worried as I will not be here???? We have sold one property in the US and one for sale. Take us down to just family home. In Thailand have one property for sale and would still have two properties here after the sale. It would be my thought to get us to just the two properties in the next 5 years, less burden on the kids... Less in fighting LOL!!!

Edited May 30, 2016 by johndudorn

[khunPer]

To my knowledge you can make a Thai will under Thai law covering your assets in Thailand.

It has nothing to do with Visa or extensions.

If you have assets abroad, make a will there to cover these assets accordingly with the Law abroad.

I have specified in my wills, one for my Home Country and one for Thailand, that the will only covers property in said country, and that there is another will covering my property in another country.

If you have heirs abroad, they may challenge a Thai will against their interest, however, that will be in a Thai Court and under Thai Law, to my knowledge, so little upstream for foreigner(s) vs. Thai heir(s).

[khunPer]

My wife and I had our Thai will made two years ago. We were told that by Thai law it is 50% surviving spouse and 50% children... If some one can confirm different I think we would make some changes. In the states I have all to wife vs versa for me. If we die at the same time 50% to our kids (2) and 50% (3) her children, all in the US. I also have set up in the Thai will that the property is to be split 5 ways if we go at the same time... More assets in US but still very substantial here.. Not too worried as I will not be here???? We have sold one property in the US and one for sale. Take us down to just family home. In Thailand have one property for sale and would still have two properties here after the sale. It would be my thought to get us to just the two properties in the next 5 years, less burden on the kids... Less in fighting LOL!!!

»50% surviving spouse and 50% children...«

That is, if you don't make a will – to my knowledge you can decide whatever you want in a Will.

[khunPer]

Making a will has nothing to do with you visa / lenght of stay.

You can name who you want and specifically exclude "normal" heirs like kids from previous marriages. The question then is whether or not that will is legally enforceable by your wife in the countries where your assets are.

I.e. I can give all my Thai assets to my wife, therefore exclude my kids from the will, but this would NOT be possible for my Swiss assets, there my kids have the right for the legal minimum.

That is why many people with assets and legal heirs in different countries have more than one will.

Make sure the Thai will is in both Thai and your national language, and have the Thai version translated again independently.

My wills provide for the disposal of my assets in Thailand, and those in Australia. One will in Thailand, one will in Australia.

According to the lawyers writing the book "Thai Law for Foreigners", you can write your will in whatever language you wish; but it shall be translated to Thai when handled by a Thai Court – but doing both langages from start, is advisable.

[GreasyFingers]

Making a will has nothing to do with you visa / lenght of stay.

You can name who you want and specifically exclude "normal" heirs like kids from previous marriages. The question then is whether or not that will is legally enforceable by your wife in the countries where your assets are.

I.e. I can give all my Thai assets to my wife, therefore exclude my kids from the will, but this would NOT be possible for my Swiss assets, there my kids have the right for the legal minimum.

That is why many people with assets and legal heirs in different countries have more than one will.

Make sure the Thai will is in both Thai and your national language, and have the Thai version translated again independently.

My wills provide for the disposal of my assets in Thailand, and those in Australia. One will in Thailand, one will in Australia.

bazza

I have drafted up a will for my assets in Thailand with everything to go to the wife. My problem is if we both go together I do not want her kids to have the money/property. In that situation did you define everything to go back to your Australian estate?

[retarius]

Bring your Swiss assets to Thailand and include them in the Thai will.

[Swiss1960]

Bring your Swiss assets to Thailand and include them in the Thai will.

Retarded idea, retarius.. not only would my kids have to come to Thailand to claim their share, they would also face tremendous issues repatriating those assets back to Switzerland.

U can replace Switzerland with every other country..

[Swiss1960]

Delete.. double post.. server issue..

Edited May 31, 2016 by Swiss1960

[Swiss1960]

Making a will has nothing to do with you visa / lenght of stay.

You can name who you want and specifically exclude "normal" heirs like kids from previous marriages. The question then is whether or not that will is legally enforceable by your wife in the countries where your assets are.

I.e. I can give all my Thai assets to my wife, therefore exclude my kids from the will, but this would NOT be possible for my Swiss assets, there my kids have the right for the legal minimum.

That is why many people with assets and legal heirs in different countries have more than one will.

Make sure the Thai will is in both Thai and your national language, and have the Thai version translated again independently.

My wills provide for the disposal of my assets in Thailand, and those in Australia. One will in Thailand, one will in Australia.

bazza

I have drafted up a will for my assets in Thailand with everything to go to the wife. My problem is if we both go together I do not want her kids to have the money/property. In that situation did you define everything to go back to your Australian estate?

You can do this - or maybe define a Thai charity that you find worth it?

Do not forget the issues your Australian heirs will have claiming the assets in Thai court and later getting them out of the country. If you have property (i.e. condo in your name), then there is also the whole land office transfer and later sales process to be taken into consideration by your Australian heirs. This can take quite a while.

[moogradod]

Thank you all.

Looks like there is a distinction if assets are in Thailand and if assets are abroad.

What I do not understand right now is that if a will in Thailand is valid it should cover all assets wherever they are. This would then be the same as if I
make a will in Switzerland where I live right now. If I would hypothetically have assets in the Netherlands, then I do not need a will for these assets
separate from the only one valid will I have already in Switzerland.

It is as well very new to me that it should not matter how long I have lived in Thailand. According to your info, I may any time make a Thai will (even if I
live abroad ?) for at least any assets I would have in Thailand. Is this really true ?

What I intend to do anyway in the future is to have as much assets as possible in my wifes name – either in Thailand or abroad. Only money for legal
requirements (retirement extension) will be in my name – if any (in case I opt for a TE visa). Does this change the situation for the better ? I have a child
from a past marriage and I do not want it to be a heir. And contrary to some here, I explicitely want that the daughter of my current wife WILL be the heir
of my assets if I die (in case my wife would have died before me and I would inherited her assets).

The only thing here is to exclude the child from a past marriage of mine – which is impossible in Europe. In Europe it also does not matter if assets are in my
wifes name or in my name. At the time of marriage, all assets are grouped together. In German you call that “Gütergemeinschaft” (community of property).
If I would die right now, then all assets of both my wife and myself would be part of the heritage. I hope this is as well different with a Thai will. Is it ?

[cyberfarang]

I can`t see the point of making a will in Thailand. We can`t own anything anyway so how can we leave that we cannot own? For bank accounts it`s easy to set up an agreement with the bank that upon your death a certain nominated person can withdraw the funds. My bits and pieces in the home and motorbike I don`t care who gets them, so what else is it worth making a will for?

[khunPer]

Thank you all.

Looks like there is a distinction if assets are in Thailand and if assets are abroad.

What I do not understand right now is that if a will in Thailand is valid it should cover all assets wherever they are. This would then be the same as if I

make a will in Switzerland where I live right now. If I would hypothetically have assets in the Netherlands, then I do not need a will for these assets

separate from the only one valid will I have already in Switzerland.

It is as well very new to me that it should not matter how long I have lived in Thailand. According to your info, I may any time make a Thai will (even if I

live abroad ?) for at least any assets I would have in Thailand. Is this really true ?

What I intend to do anyway in the future is to have as much assets as possible in my wifes name – either in Thailand or abroad. Only money for legal

requirements (retirement extension) will be in my name – if any (in case I opt for a TE visa). Does this change the situation for the better ? I have a child

from a past marriage and I do not want it to be a heir. And contrary to some here, I explicitely want that the daughter of my current wife WILL be the heir

of my assets if I die (in case my wife would have died before me and I would inherited her assets).

The only thing here is to exclude the child from a past marriage of mine – which is impossible in Europe. In Europe it also does not matter if assets are in my

wifes name or in my name. At the time of marriage, all assets are grouped together. In German you call that “Gütergemeinschaft” (community of property).

If I would die right now, then all assets of both my wife and myself would be part of the heritage. I hope this is as well different with a Thai will. Is it ?

You write at the end, what I was thinking it was about, when I read the beginning of your above post.

Think you have a bit of same Law as in my home country, Denmark, where you cannot completely exclude wife and child/children from the will, each part shall have 1/3 of half, i.e. 16.66 percent. To what I can read, there is not such similar Law in Thailand.

In Europe the national Laws may be fairly harmonized, especially under EU and associates, so what you write in Switzerland may comply in Holland. However, you can for example write whatever you want in a Swiss Will about assets of yours in Thailand, but to execute the Will in Thailand, you need to bring the Will to a Thai Court, translated to Thai, and comply with Thai Law.

Same thing the other way round, let's say I make a Will in Thailand that I shall leave nothing for my child in Denmark, but I have no separate Will in Denmark. Any assets left inside Denmark will be distributed after Danish Law, and the by Law reserved portion, 1/3 of half, will be distributed to my child. My child may challenge the Thai distribution of property, but the Danish Law don't help, the child need to convince a Thai Court about the child's right to inherit a reserved portion of the Thai estate. I have no knowledge if similar cases have been tried in a Thai Court.

The book "Thai Law for Foreigners" by Benjawan Poomsan Becker and Roengsak Thongkaew, Paiboon Publishing ISBN 978-1-887521-57-4, has a section about Wills and dying in Thailand in part 3, from page 77 to 86. It's worth reading, even you seek professional assistance, and it can be a very easy process to make a Will in Thailand; however the better organized, the better executed.

Quotes from the book (page 78):

»Foreigners should definitely have a written will. It can be a simple document written in either Thai or your native language or both.«

»You may want to make a will to distribute your material goods in each country in which you have assets. In this case, each will needs to address the assets that you own in that country only.«

»There is no inheritance or death tax in Thailand.« [at present]

If you have any assets in Europe I would make a Will there, and stipulate that the Will only covers your European assets, and a Thai Will has been made for you Thai assets in accordance with Thai Law. Then also make a Will here, where you can make your child of previous marriage disinherited, and state that it's for your Thai assets only, and another Will has been made in Europe for European assets.

I made two Last Will myself.

Moving funds, values, property to another country/name when alive – so not being part of the estate in a Will – may be hard to challenge, especially if it's a foreigner against a Thai in a Thai Court; but I'm not in any way an expert, so perhaps some other TV-members have more knowledge. I presume you are aware of the risk, moving your assets to another name...

Some posters has mentioned, that there are no such thing as Trusts in Thailand.

In a complicated case with questions, like yours, I would, if it was me, seek professionel advice and assistance – any challenge and Court case can take long time and be extremely costly, for both parts.

[Swiss1960]

Thank you all.

Looks like there is a distinction if assets are in Thailand and if assets are abroad.

What I do not understand right now is that if a will in Thailand is valid it should cover all assets wherever they are. This would then be the same as if I

make a will in Switzerland where I live right now. If I would hypothetically have assets in the Netherlands, then I do not need a will for these assets

separate from the only one valid will I have already in Switzerland.

It is as well very new to me that it should not matter how long I have lived in Thailand. According to your info, I may any time make a Thai will (even if I

live abroad ?) for at least any assets I would have in Thailand. Is this really true ?

What I intend to do anyway in the future is to have as much assets as possible in my wifes name – either in Thailand or abroad. Only money for legal

requirements (retirement extension) will be in my name – if any (in case I opt for a TE visa). Does this change the situation for the better ? I have a child

from a past marriage and I do not want it to be a heir. And contrary to some here, I explicitely want that the daughter of my current wife WILL be the heir

of my assets if I die (in case my wife would have died before me and I would inherited her assets).

The only thing here is to exclude the child from a past marriage of mine – which is impossible in Europe. In Europe it also does not matter if assets are in my

wifes name or in my name. At the time of marriage, all assets are grouped together. In German you call that “Gütergemeinschaft” (community of property).

If I would die right now, then all assets of both my wife and myself would be part of the heritage. I hope this is as well different with a Thai will. Is it ?

Moogradod: As others said, you are in a difficult legal situation, being German, living in Switzerland, having assets all around (Thailand, Switzerland and maybe also in Germany) AND on top, you want to disinherit your child from previous marriage. Now I have beein in a similar situation, as I want to "disinherit" my wife from my assets in Switzerland and "disinherit" my sons from my assets in Thailand.

In Thailand, according to my lawyer here and from what I read in the Thai inheritance law it says "Section 1608. A de cujus may disinherit any of his statutory heirs only by an express declaration of intention,". I was told that this means, when I write in my Thai will that my sons are disinherited (naming them both in the will), then they have NO way to challenge that will. I also clearly stated in my will that my assets in Switzerland are covered by a separate will. Having said that, it is also clear that it makes NO difference, whether the Thai assets are in your name or in your wife's name. The only difference is that she would already have access to the assets in case of your death, otherwise whe has to wait for the will to be duly executed through a Thai court.

One other thing about your Thai wife's daughter: If she is not yet of age 20, then make sure that in your will, you not only assign an executor for your will but also a guardian for the daughter in case your wife would die before you.

Now for Switzerland or Germany, you can NOT fully disinherit your child from your assets, they will always get the legal minimum as by the countries law. You can also NOT just transfer all your assets (i.e. house) to your wife, as your child would have an easy game to challenge such a will as circumvention of the inheritance laws. I know about a case in Switzerland, where a guy "sold" his house to his wife for 1 CHF, the court deemed the sale contract to be illegal both from the inheritance law and from the inheritance tax law.

Therefore, getting your European assets out of reach of your child would require you to relocate your assets to Thailand, but again, you can keep them in your name and make a Thai will about excluding your child from the inheritance. Said that, one additional warning: I would NOT do that before you relocate to Thailand and live here on whatever Visa and extension you will get. If all your money was moved to Thailand, you still live in Switzerland and then suddenly need money, it would be pretty difficult to repatriate your Thai funds back to Switzerland - not only because the Thai bank could make problems, but also because your Swiss bank would challenge where the money came from (money landering laws) and you might not have access to your money for quite some time.

Finally, make sure that your wife does her Thai will at the same time also, declaring who will inherit her assets (maybe you when you are still alive OR her daughter and you will act as executor and guardian for the daughter, if she is still underage). A will in Thailand is straight forward if you know what you want and it will cost you around 10'000 Baht each plus translation for your (in English or German created) Thai will.

I am NOT a lawyer, but all above "knowledge" is from creating my own wills (and the one for my Thai wife) with heirs ad assets in both countries and many discussions with lawyers both in Switzerland and Thailand.

[khunPer]

Having said that, it is also clear that it makes NO difference, whether the Thai assets are in your name or in your wife's name. The only difference is that she would already have access to the assets in case of your death, otherwise whe has to wait for the will to be duly executed through a Thai court.

Just a small comment. I have some funds in shared bank accounts and shared Fund Books with my GF – after what has been posted in TV forums, Thai bank don't freeze shared account upon death of one named owner, and by Thai Law the funds belongs to the other named owner – my GF of course also has acces to some funds from accounts of her own..

To avoid any misinterpretation I wrote it directly in my Thai Will:

»

2.1

Any money I may leave in shared bank accounts with two names shall belong to the other named person I share the account with. I have at present a shared cash savings account and a shared fixed deposit account in...

«

One other thing about your Thai wife's daughter: If she is not yet of age 20, then make sure that in your will, you not only assign an executor for your will but also a guardian for the daughter in case your wife would die before you.

My daughter is minor, so I have in my Will stated about guardian and deposit accounts. I have also written that

»

If my child is minor, the Fund Books shall be “frozen” until my child is 21 years old, however any dividend shall be paid out and administrated by guardian.

«

I wrote little extra security in my Will – based on how we do in Europe:

»

4.1

Everything my heirs may inherit after me; and any amount paid directly to the heirs from accident insurance, as well as foreign... ...accounts; shall belong to them as Separation of Property and therefore cannot be shared in the event of separation or divorce.

4.2

The proceeds of Separate Property – as well as whatever that might replace or be substituted for the Separate Property – shall also be their Separation of Property.

«

There are some more, presume standard, clauses about heir's spouse – the main reason I include this is that it protect my heirs from being "ripped off" – at least there's a kind of legal excuse for my child to demand Separation of Property upon marriage; should I not manage to use up everything of the little I have...

In my Danish Will, I use the practice from there – as I have no problems having some assets in Europe for inheritance – something like, that funds up to a certain percentage, both annually and in total, can under guardian be taken out for education, establishing a business, or in case of accident/illness. That might be good to phrase something like that in a Will, if there is minor heir.

Swiss1960's post is IMHO very good advice...

[Scotwight]

I can`t see the point of making a will in Thailand. We can`t own anything anyway so how can we leave that we cannot own? For bank accounts it`s easy to set up an agreement with the bank that upon your death a certain nominated person can withdraw the funds. My bits and pieces in the home and motorbike I don`t care who gets them, so what else is it worth making a will for?

Advise please how to set up an agreement with the bank that upon your death a certain nominated person can withdraw funds. Have you ever tried this in Thailand? I don't know where you are from but this is Thailand and not back home.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Scotwight

[Cook my sock]

I can`t see the point of making a will in Thailand. We can`t own anything anyway so how can we leave that we cannot own? For bank accounts it`s easy to set up an agreement with the bank that upon your death a certain nominated person can withdraw the funds. My bits and pieces in the home and motorbike I don`t care who gets them, so what else is it worth making a will for?

If you have assets in Thailand, you'll need to make a separate will in Thailand to name beneficiaries for those assets, such as a condo or bank account. If not, my understanding is a foreigners assets go straight to the government.

[Swiss1960]

I can`t see the point of making a will in Thailand. We can`t own anything anyway so how can we leave that we cannot own? For bank accounts it`s easy to set up an agreement with the bank that upon your death a certain nominated person can withdraw the funds. My bits and pieces in the home and motorbike I don`t care who gets them, so what else is it worth making a will for?

If you have assets in Thailand, you'll need to make a separate will in Thailand to name beneficiaries for those assets, such as a condo or bank account. If not, my understanding is a foreigners assets go straight to the government.

Wrong understanding. Thai law clearly identifies the order of heirs, whether or not a will is present. Read the pinned topic about preparing a will in Thailand in the General Forum.

[abrahamzvi]

Making a will has nothing to do with you visa / lenght of stay.

You can name who you want and specifically exclude "normal" heirs like kids from previous marriages. The question then is whether or not that will is legally enforceable by your wife in the countries where your assets are.

I.e. I can give all my Thai assets to my wife, therefore exclude my kids from the will, but this would NOT be possible for my Swiss assets, there my kids have the right for the legal minimum.

That is why many people with assets and legal heirs in different countries have more than one will.

The same situation applies to Germany. As far as Germany is concerned, this can even be more complicated. Under German law, in normal circumstances, a German citizen is subject to the German inheritance laws in respect of his/her worldwide assets, irrespective of his/her place of residence. There are circumstances, where this can be avoided, but it needs really careful legal advice and action in Germany by a German lawyer, specializing in Family Law.

Of course, it all depends on the amount we are talking about and on the persons involved. A good legal advice in Germany can be quite expensive and might not be worth the trouble.

[scorecard]

My wife and I had our Thai will made two years ago. We were told that by Thai law it is 50% surviving spouse and 50% children... If some one can confirm different I think we would make some changes. In the states I have all to wife vs versa for me. If we die at the same time 50% to our kids (2) and 50% (3) her children, all in the US. I also have set up in the Thai will that the property is to be split 5 ways if we go at the same time... More assets in US but still very substantial here.. Not too worried as I will not be here???? We have sold one property in the US and one for sale. Take us down to just family home. In Thailand have one property for sale and would still have two properties here after the sale. It would be my thought to get us to just the two properties in the next 5 years, less burden on the kids... Less in fighting LOL!!!

If the deceased did not make a will then yes the sharing / disbursement of assets is covered specifically by Thai law. 50/50 wife and kids is the commonly held 'formula' but not quite true:

- First 50% goes directly to any surviving wife.

- Second 50% is shared equally by the surviving wife and any kids fathered, in Thailand, by the deceased.

(Yes, wife gets 2 bites. Confirmed in the now defunct 'Ask the Lawyer" thread.)

All of the above if there is no will.

But if the deceased makes a will the deceased can split it all up anyway he/she chooses. Meaning that the deceased could make a will to leave everything to the wife and nothing to the kids or the opposite way around, or leave equal shares to wife and kids, or leave it all to the maid, etc.

Further there seems to be a common understanding that the chanute for any property left by the decesased can only be in one name. This is incorrect, a chanute in Thailand in any circumstances (initial purchase, bequeathed in a will) can have multiple names including childrens names or only child / childrens names. But note that if the chanute includes a childs' name then the property cannot be sold until the child reaches the official age of majority. This can only be overridden by a court order which is very difficult to obtain.

Some folks make a will at the local amphur office under 'guidance' of one of the amphur officers. This is not necessarily a good idea because most amphur officers don't know the law but will tell you they do.

[moogradod]

The same situation applies to Germany. As far as Germany is concerned, this can even be more complicated. Under German law, in normal circumstances, a German citizen is subject to the German inheritance laws in respect of his/her worldwide assets, irrespective of his/her place of residence. There are circumstances, where this can be avoided, but it needs really careful legal advice and action in Germany by a German lawyer, specializing in Family Law.

And if nearly all assets are in posession of my wife ? (lets say these assets are in Thailand and Singapore or solely in Thailand – just as an example) and I have a Thai will stating that she is the sole beneficiary of anything I own anyway ? Who may challenge this and where and how ? I doubt that this could be challenged in real life but I am not absolutely sure.

By the way, as a permanent resident in Switzerland I must currently abide by the Swiss Law and these regulations apply regardless of me having a German passport.

As scorecard suggests as well it seems that if you DO have a will everything can be settled as you wish.

[Swiss1960]

The same situation applies to Germany. As far as Germany is concerned, this can even be more complicated. Under German law, in normal circumstances, a German citizen is subject to the German inheritance laws in respect of his/her worldwide assets, irrespective of his/her place of residence. There are circumstances, where this can be avoided, but it needs really careful legal advice and action in Germany by a German lawyer, specializing in Family Law.

And if nearly all assets are in posession of my wife ? (lets say these assets are in Thailand and Singapore or solely in Thailand – just as an example) and I have a Thai will stating that she is the sole beneficiary of anything I own anyway ? Who may challenge this and where and how ? I doubt that this could be challenged in real life but I am not absolutely sure.

By the way, as a permanent resident in Switzerland I must currently abide by the Swiss Law and these regulations apply regardless of me having a German passport.

As scorecard suggests as well it seems that if you DO have a will everything can be settled as you wish.

As scorecard said, if your Thai will says that all your assets in Thailand (and maybe Singapore) are to go to your wife, you child will have NO chance to challenge this, as Thai inheritance law allows you to disinherit your children.

In your Swiss will, you CAN write that all your assets in Thailand are covered by a Thai will and have to be distributed according to this Thai will under Thai laws. Swiss courts WILL accept this, since it is clearly stated in the "Swiss International Privacylaw". It clearly says that as soon as assets abroad are dealt with by the local courts, the Swiss courts will not intervene. So your assets in Switzerland are fully safe.

If you have assets in Germany, it gets more difficult, as you have to look at the German inheritance law as well. What does the German law say with regards to asset distribution? I do not know, but one example from France: French inheritance law clearly states that French courts are responsible for property distribution, but not for other assets like bank accounts... So without a German inheritance specialist, you might write a will in Switzerland, but it can be challenged in German courts for the assets there. AND again, your Swiss will can not disinherit your children for assets covered by your Swiss will, only put them on the minimum amount.

And once again, do not forget: Once you are married, you can NOT put all your Swiss assets (i.e. property) in the name of your wife. It would be seen as circumvention of Swiss inheritance law as well as Swiss tax laws. Swiss courts would invalidate such moves of assets when your children would challenge that will and would request that your wife refunds your children for the at least the minimum inheritance amount they would get when you do not have a will.

[scorecard]

The same situation applies to Germany. As far as Germany is concerned, this can even be more complicated. Under German law, in normal circumstances, a German citizen is subject to the German inheritance laws in respect of his/her worldwide assets, irrespective of his/her place of residence. There are circumstances, where this can be avoided, but it needs really careful legal advice and action in Germany by a German lawyer, specializing in Family Law.

And if nearly all assets are in posession of my wife ? (lets say these assets are in Thailand and Singapore or solely in Thailand – just as an example) and I have a Thai will stating that she is the sole beneficiary of anything I own anyway ? Who may challenge this and where and how ? I doubt that this could be challenged in real life but I am not absolutely sure.

By the way, as a permanent resident in Switzerland I must currently abide by the Swiss Law and these regulations apply regardless of me having a German passport.

As scorecard suggests as well it seems that if you DO have a will everything can be settled as you wish.

As scorecard said, if your Thai will says that all your assets in Thailand (and maybe Singapore) are to go to your wife, you child will have NO chance to challenge this, as Thai inheritance law allows you to disinherit your children.

In your Swiss will, you CAN write that all your assets in Thailand are covered by a Thai will and have to be distributed according to this Thai will under Thai laws. Swiss courts WILL accept this, since it is clearly stated in the "Swiss International Privacylaw". It clearly says that as soon as assets abroad are dealt with by the local courts, the Swiss courts will not intervene. So your assets in Switzerland are fully safe.

If you have assets in Germany, it gets more difficult, as you have to look at the German inheritance law as well. What does the German law say with regards to asset distribution? I do not know, but one example from France: French inheritance law clearly states that French courts are responsible for property distribution, but not for other assets like bank accounts... So without a German inheritance specialist, you might write a will in Switzerland, but it can be challenged in German courts for the assets there. AND again, your Swiss will can not disinherit your children for assets covered by your Swiss will, only put them on the minimum amount.

And once again, do not forget: Once you are married, you can NOT put all your Swiss assets (i.e. property) in the name of your wife. It would be seen as circumvention of Swiss inheritance law as well as Swiss tax laws. Swiss courts would invalidate such moves of assets when your children would challenge that will and would request that your wife refunds your children for the at least the minimum inheritance amount they would get when you do not have a will.

Sure, the inheritance laws of Thailand are not strictly applicable to other countries. And what might be legal in a will in Thailand may not necessarily be legal in a will in another country.

It also needs to be mentioned that before probate is granted there may be other items which need attention:

- If a credit card company is requesting payment of an O/S balance then by the law this needs to be settled in some way before probate can be granted and therefore allowing transfer of property, access to banks account (not necessarily true where there are joint accounts). But this could be another examples where laws on this specific subject are different in different countries.

- Maybe there are O/S taxation payments. These items need to be settled before probate can be granted by the appropriate court.

Edited June 12, 2016 by scorecard

[moogradod]

Thanks Swiss1960 for the explanation - I appreciate this very much, but

1. I will then not have a Swiss Will, since I will be living in Thailand and have a German Passport - why should I have a Swiss Will ? Besides nobody could challenge anything in Switzerland - for what reason shoud they ?

2. There are no assets in Switzerland

3. There are no assests in Germany

4. 95% of all assets are in Thailand (perhaps in another Asian country as well) and solely in the name of my wife

5. The only Will will be a Thai Will

Therefore

• I may desinherit any children as I wish
• If any challenge would be brought foreward, then this should take place in Thailand, not in Germany, not in Switzerland
• The only possible challenger sits in another asian country and has no money at all - challenge would be difficult

Does this sound like it is very most probable that only my wife will benefit if I am dying while in Thailand or is there the slightest doubt and if yes where ?

Edited June 12, 2016 by moogradod

[Swiss1960]

Thanks Swiss1960 for the explanation - I appreciate this very much, but

1. I will then not have a Swiss Will, since I will be living in Thailand and have a German Passport - why should I have a Swiss Will ? Besides nobody could challenge anything in Switzerland - for what reason shoud they ?

2. There are no assets in Switzerland

3. There are no assests in Germany

4. 95% of all assets are in Thailand (perhaps in another Asian country as well) and solely in the name of my wife

5. The only Will will be a Thai Will

Therefore

• I may desinherit any children as I wish
• If any challenge would be brought foreward, then this should take place in Thailand, not in Germany, not in Switzerland
• The only possible challenger sits in another asian country and has no money at all - challenge would be difficult

Does this sound like it is very most probable that only my wife will benefit if I am dying while in Thailand or is there the slightest doubt and if yes where ?

Well, you talk about "I will then...", and only you know how long you intend to continue to stay and live in Switzerland. Therefore few thoughts:

• Life is a b*tch and sh*it happens... you never know what happens to you tomorrow (accident, heart attack etc etc)
• only you know how your asset distribution looks AT PRESENT and what you child could get if something happens tomorrow
• having a will in Thailand NOW will at least clarify the situation for the assets there and secure them 100% for your wife
• having a will in Switzerland NOW will at least clarify the situation now and secure the maximum possible of your assets for your wife.

Final remark: Once you move to Thailand, your Swiss will becomes more or less obsolete.

And again: Once you have a Thai will and 95% of your assets are in Thailand, it is NOT necessary to put everything in your wife's name, your assets WILL undisputed go to your wife in case of your death. Do not forget: "if sh*t happens.." and you get marriage issues, having everything in your wife's name will lead you in a very very vulnerable position. If your wife really loves you, she will be happy with the will alone and for sure not ask you to put everything in her name

[moogradod]

Now this sounds good Swiss1960 ! Thank you.

My question was aiming at the situation once we have retired in Thailand. And you are right - anything can happen anytime before this becomes true, but for that I am prepared for that the best I can.

My wife would never ask for anything, we are married now for more than 10 years and she never did. Just to make things a bit easier for her I will consider to put most of the available money in her name but leave a rest for me just for immigration purposes or other legal requirements when I need to show money in my name.

Edited June 13, 2016 by moogradod

[Swiss1960]

Now this sounds good Swiss1960 ! Thank you.

My question was aiming at the situation once we have retired in Thailand. And you are right - anything can happen anytime before this becomes true, but for that I am prepared for that the best I can.

My wife would never ask for anything, we are married now for more than 10 years and she never did. Just to make things a bit easier for her I will consider to put most of the available money in her name but leave a rest for me just for immigration purposes or other legal requirements when I need to show money in my name.

Good luck to you anyway. Just one last input for you:

Talk with your wife about her ladt will also. If she should go before you and have no will (and "all" is in her name), then it will take lot of time to sort out who (you or your wife's children) gets what (house, condo, cars, bikes, accounts, gold, jewelry etc). Also she can then appoint an executor (ev you) and appoint a guardian for her children if they are not yet of age (20 year)

My wife made her will and listed in detail who should get what, appointed me as executor and guardian for her daughter and also defined what shall happen if we both day at the same time.

Any Thai lawyer can help you / her with such a will for approx 10K per will