Foreign owned business closings ... worse than ever?

[12DrinkMore]

In the soi Buakow area, I see 2 restaurants that are always busy. One is known as the hole in the wall. It is a long running bare basics Thai restaurant that is open 24 hours and has customers seemingly around the clock. Food is more expensive than outdoors despite it being crammed and hot.

Retox is a 24 hour air conditioned sports bar best known for their 99 baht breakfast although they are constantly busy and have opened another branch recently nearby.

All to say, why can't other restaurants (Thai or foreign) just copy these 2 business models as closely as possible? Seems a no brainer.

They do that, then the number of customers per restaurant plummets, and nobody makes a decent profit.

[SOTIRIOS]

...halfway around the world from your home...

...something happens....

...you are forced to 'close up shop'.....business or personal....

...what do you think you will end up with....

...next to nothing....

...get the picture now....???

[Kabula]

Businesses worldwide, especially retail, mom and pop restaurants, farming, and small banks are closing and struggling now.

The only thing that has been keeping most businesses afloat is low interest rates for so many years.

If interest rates are increased, that will be the end of many businesses from credit default.

The big problem is no matter what they do all businesses are at risk.

The longer they keep interest rates low, inflation and hyperinflation will accelerate.

We are seeing that now in higher food prices and smaller packaging.

This will have a dramatic affect on restaurants from declining cash flows, combined with high food spoilage from less customers. Most restaurant customers are no longer spending as much money on liquor in the restaurants as back in the day that supplemented their income.

Sadly, I don't see the world economy getting better anytime soon.

I feel sorry for small businesses, especially aging owners with children that can't sell; are forced to stay open, while higher expenses and taxes pull them underwater forcing them to lose everything.

[rakman]

On a popular negative oriented quasi financial site:

Former Morgan Stanley Chief Asia Economist: "Don't Listen To The Ruling Elite, The World Economy Is In Real Trouble"

Interesting article, generally pointing to a prolonged period of stagnation and instability.

[slipperylobster]

What you call "Chinese" are actually 2nd Generation...for the most part.

I know a few (outside the pattaya area, however).

Parents are Chinese, and sons and daughters Thai.

Because they have immigration status, or are in fact 2nd Generation Thai, they are in the loop.

The people I know are elderly, and their children now grown up and running their businesses.

There is a good friend of my wife who is married to a Chinese (2nd Generation). They are involved in all the Petron Gas Stations just south of Udon. We get invited to all the hoopla anniversaries...and it's very political. Top government guys coming in from Bangkok and such.

One year..we shared VIP tables near the main stage. After all the business speeches, the Morlum started, and they pulled me up front to dance with them. They really enjoy having a good time, but I noticed news cameras and became shy. I think the reason they chose me was that I had the only table full of pretty ladies (my wife's friends). I started dancing and they took me away..up front...with all the men. blah. Only twenty vip tables..but more than a thousand villagers (roped off on the other side)

The connections they have are just beyond what we farangs can get.

Edited May 30, 2016 by slipperylobster

[OMGImInPattaya]

It is not just Thailand...nor just farang businesses...the entire world...generally speaking, has been in a slump for some time now...small businesses are failing everywhere...the US has many more closings than new startup businesses monthly...

That is the bad news...the really bad news is that all the different tricks the Big Banks have used to try and jump start a country's economy have failed...gobs of money introduced have only inflated the stock markets with false hope...interest rates a near zero, zero, and some in negative territory have helped keep the sinking ship afloat...at least for appearance...as most countries are actually bankrupt with a mountain of unserviceable debt...

I am afraid a day of reckoning is fast approaching...(commonly known as when the dung hits the fan) the world will likely be in a severe depression...paper money near worthless...financial, banking systems temporarily shutdown...and many governments will cease to function until a world reset of unpayable debt is ironed out...history has no equal to the world's current dilemma...

The issue with businesses closings in Thailand...is just a small piece of the much bigger picture...

I smell a "gold bug" talking up his book. ?

[wandasloan]

Yes, I don't think English pub food has quite caught on with the Thais!!

And yet the most successful pubs in Thailand cater to Thais and an international crowd AND English. There are many, many of them. Then there are the ones who only want English people on their premises because, you know, Thais hate pub food. And usually they are unsuccessful.

Probably no connection though.

In my experience and opinion, both, and as stated a couple or six times above, if you decide to EXclude local business you have almost no chance of success - not zero, but approaching zero. That includes grudgingly "allowing" some Thais because they're with farangs who will pay.

If you decide to INclude local business, and market and run your enterprise accordingly, you'll have a shot at success.

[JESSVANPELT]

I have been living here for more then 10 years and this year does not seem any different then most, the worst was right after the coupe.

Typically we have those first time "never been in business blokes" who come here think they found heaven and let there girlfriend open a bar , beauty salon or laundry...it does well through high season and opps.... low season catches them unprepared and thus belly up!

it happens with the Thai's also i have never seen so many coffee shops open and close in the past 4 years, all ran by Thai's.

same same every year.

[hawker9000]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

The complaints I have heard is that as far as the powers that be are concerned, Chinese foreigners are in a higher class than all other foreign owners.

They feel Chinese were being spared certain things that they weren't.

I can't verify any of that, but have heard it more than once. It could just be sour grapes.

JT,

How can they know exactly what the Chinese were spared that they were not. Did they confirm this with the Chinese or is it just a feeling.

To me it sounds like sour grapes and a good explanation to make their own failure less their own fault.

Foreign owned business is crashing because there are less Europeans / Americans here than before. Their business model was just wrong. Now that would imply own fault.. but who likes to admit own fault.. we all say Thais don't like it.. but truth is nobody (me included) likes admitting own faults and any excuse ia a good one.

No, their business model WAS right. It's now gone wrong as a result of the rising anti-western/pro-China sentiment. So not "own fault", unless you can find fault in simply not being able to foresee the future. Years ago, a business model based on expectations of a growing western visitor/expat population and clientele would've been perfectly reasonable. I'm no more in a position to validate JT's specific suspicions than anyone else, but I do believe the passing of the farang and the rise of the Chinese in Thailand are undeniable and obvious.

[Stevemercer]

There is currently a lot of Chinese money pouring into Thailand because the Chinese economy has slowed and Chinese investors are looking to diversify their holdings overseas. As noted above, Chinese understand the patronage system and can look forward to preferential treatment in the current political climate (which has swung more pro-Chinese and anti-Western).

[gandalf12]

In recent years I have been amazed how many business rely ONLY on foreigners as customers. From Italian/French restaurants, premium coffee shops, Irish pubs, new fancy clubs, certain shopping centers, hotels and many many more.

I am sure they have done very well with tourist numbers more than doubling the last 10 years, .....

I'm not so sure. The "new" tourists come in large groups. They dont stay long and they dont spend much money outside of the places their group is taken too. The "old" tourists stayed a long time, and spent their money where they fancied.

Tourist arrivals are irrelevant. Tourist spending is the only meaningful figure.

Totally agree with you but try telling that to the TAT and see if they agree. To them numbers is the most important thing not how much is being spent.

[mike324]

Its not just the Thai authorities, some owners are fools to themselves, i walked into a newish but empty bar in the Rompho market Jomtien the other night , beer that was served felt like it had been in the fridge about 15 minutes, farang owner offered me another beer, which was the same temp, i offered to pay, but he told me to F off

Considering the rents there and the investment he has put into a double shop house, i would class the guy as a complete idiot

fact is many owners of businesses here have never owned a similar business (or business at all) in their home country and expect to make it here. Back home a lot of people fail and here you have even more going against you. To start a business with no experience in the chosen business in a strange country is madness.

Agree the low barrier of entry, and how easy it is to start a business is what drags all these non-experience folks in trying to make some side money.

I would say there are a lot of Thai businesses closing too, not just foreign owned.

[froglegisgood]

The topic that was about business in thailand has turn to food and bar in pattaya... which is far from being the center of the world but is obviously it for many TV folks.

I have had a business in thailand for 15 years, in manufacturing, focusing on medium and large size companies. We employ 10 foreigners, used to have 15.

The labour dept is making our life more and more difficult each year to renew our WP to a point that we are wondering when they will simply say no instead or creating requests of new forms and documents as they do each year.

The economy is a mess, we have lost a large number of our customers who did not bother with trying to make it here anymore, and they have moved to Myanmar, Vietnam and Cambodia.

Our office in Myanmar and Cambodia are growing much faster, Thailand is shrinking, while 15 years ago we all believed Thailand had a bright future.

Unless someone at the government level realises this, we are heading straight into a wall. What need to change dramatically is:

1. Education, Thailand produces followers, not leaders. We have a very hard time making them managers.
2. Attitude to foreigners: we are not welcome anymore, we are supposed to invest and leave it to them to decide everything with our money
3. Values at work: reward the people who help you evolve with some loyalty, both ways, understanding there is a lot to learn after school

what we see in Thailand vs Myanmar/Cambodia is:

in Thailand

1. Entry level salary for newly university graduate, more than doubled in 10 years (from 15-20K to 45K baht).
2. Level of English stayed the same or maybe got worse
3. Attitude to work is worsened, it now looks like we should be grateful they work for us
4. Mobility has increased, Thai people change jobs for little money, no loyalty even if you train them 12 months
5. Admin and compliance to ever changing regulations from government is making our life extremely difficult and worrisome. Renewing your Visa is a moving target each year
6. Life is easier in Thailand as there are already so many facilities, Medical, quality hospital, international school, and rent remains at an acceptable level.
7. Not sure what to say about corruption, leave it to you to appreciate

in Myanmar/Cambodia

1. Salaries remain competitive for people you have to train, still 12-15K entry level. Will increase of course with time.
2. Level of English is much higher
3. They are happy to work for foreigners as they view it as a way to evolve and learn
4. Greater loyalty
5. Hard worker
6. No issues for WP or Visa, Helpful at any level to say the least.
7. Rent in Myanmar is too high still but going down as offer increases
8. Lack of services like road, electricity, medical and school still behind - but developing.
9. Corruption has been reduced dramatically.
10. Cambodia is very similar to Myanmar except Infrastructure and Service is much more developed. Life is easier than in Myanmar.

Would love to see if anyone sees this differently

FLG

[bangkapi]

I've been noticing a global economic contraction.

But maybe that's just me.

[Brer Fox]

Business fail because

1, No "due diligence" was undertaken.

2 No business plan was set out .

3. The fool "bar owner" could not calculate the number of bottles of beer needed to be sold, every week, to cover the outgoings before any profit could made .

There is always another one willing to step into the fools shoes.

The other factor that often comes into play is the "ego" factor.

For example how many foreigners buy beer bars without having a clue about how to run them? But it is great to tell all the mates back home how you have a "thriving" profitable bar business in Thailand with beautiful girls working for you and how they worship you as a boss. That's a sure way to make them feel envious and your boots feel bigger.

The business could even run for a fair time depending how long the cash and credit cards last. Then the #@+t hits the fan and another newly arrived sucker takes over after the prior owner tell him how he has made his fortune and is moving on to bigger and better things.

Beer bars are like revolving doors for many farang seeking recognition and admiration by their peers and friends.

Success usually comes to those who have genuine motivational reasons and solid business acumen but failure seems more common for those who are in it looking for glory.

[robblok]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

The complaints I have heard is that as far as the powers that be are concerned, Chinese foreigners are in a higher class than all other foreign owners.

They feel Chinese were being spared certain things that they weren't.

I can't verify any of that, but have heard it more than once. It could just be sour grapes.

JT,

How can they know exactly what the Chinese were spared that they were not. Did they confirm this with the Chinese or is it just a feeling.

To me it sounds like sour grapes and a good explanation to make their own failure less their own fault.

Foreign owned business is crashing because there are less Europeans / Americans here than before. Their business model was just wrong. Now that would imply own fault.. but who likes to admit own fault.. we all say Thais don't like it.. but truth is nobody (me included) likes admitting own faults and any excuse ia a good one.

No, their business model WAS right. It's now gone wrong as a result of the rising anti-western/pro-China sentiment. So not "own fault", unless you can find fault in simply not being able to foresee the future. Years ago, a business model based on expectations of a growing western visitor/expat population and clientele would've been perfectly reasonable. I'm no more in a position to validate JT's specific suspicions than anyone else, but I do believe the passing of the farang and the rise of the Chinese in Thailand are undeniable and obvious.

Yes it was right and now its wrong, however any business only relying on one segment and that does not diversify is at risk. But the last few years 5 or so the number of western tourists declined and anyone could see it.

Yes that is the whole point more Chinese less farang, nothing sinister / mysterious about that. But JT was obviously referring to something else otherwise he could have discussed it. I still did not see an army truck arrive here to pick me up for saying that the Chinese tourist have now a bigger market share than the farang.

[DTL2014]

Absolutely- my late licence fees went up 400 % after military took over - they gave new powers to the district office -so the cops don't pocket all the money- now too many snouts in the trough. Stealing from the country.. solidifying their income streams like the closure of uber.Its a dreadful system with deliberate grey areas so as to allow extra income to be extracted from the populace- for the enjoyment of a few at the top.self interest at heart

[Dan5]

Heard the same thing from Thai business owners over the last maybe year. Things are slow. Don't think it has anything to do with the tourist season.

[blazes]

On a popular negative oriented quasi financial site:

Former Morgan Stanley Chief Asia Economist: "Don't Listen To The Ruling Elite, The World Economy Is In Real Trouble"

Interesting article, generally pointing to a prolonged period of stagnation and instability.

If there's one thing that frosts my t!ts on TV, it is coming across something that indicates with the utmost clarity that the contributor has not read the previous postings (or, if he or she has read them, they have not been read attentively).

Sorry for this rant, but please go back and look at posting #8.

[JSixpack]

the backbone of pattaya was girl. And i mean young, fresh, slim, easy sexy girl. Tourists would come for party and fun,spend as much as they can and come back again 6 months later. That was several years ago.

Today these girl are 50 yo, 180 pounds and 4 feet tall. You can understand the usual repeated tourists are not anymore attracted to this town.

When was this? There've been no pretty women here for at least the last 7 years. Looks like these ladies have had you completely fooled. Pattaya was already in terminal decline then.

I have been to Pattaya twice in the last month visiting friends, in fact I arrived home yesterday from Pattaya, so thats about up to date as I can be.

It was like being in some sort of Hollywood B movie, day of the living dead, surreal is the only way to describe it.

About 90% of the farang I saw must have been at least 60, I assume these are coffin dodgers who chose to retire there.

Quite comical to watch these people at breakfast as there teerak talks on the phone to her husband.

Somehting else struck me, has a beauty tax been introduced, or have bar fines been reduced for ugly women?

I have never seen so many ugly, overweight, past their sell by date women hanging on the arms of their latest faern.

Where are the pretty women?

Pattaya dead, dont know if rigour mortis has set in just yet, but its certainly in terminal decline.

You seriously think, that a dirty beach, an ugly town, very unfriendly locals will attract people to crime city?

Um . . . yup. Jus' gon' keep on doin' it despite the thousands of doom prophecies that've gone into the trash over the decades. Yours, now, lacks the obligatory Cambodia peroration. Our other doomsters will find that worrisome--a questioning by implication of forum dogma--so pls add it in before yours joins all the others. Here: Lawrence Neal got it right 20 years ago.

a steadily increasing number of reports of tourists being insulted, assaulted, drugged, robbed and extorted. . . . the narrow, seven meter wide ribbon of sand is dirty, fronted by polluted water, and monopolized by chair vendors who gallantly leave the outlets of the street drains for those who do not wish to rent a chair. . . . vehicles prevents them from taking all available parking along Beach Road . . . streets . . . garbage . . . no one is going to walk down them if doing so leaves them open to being insulted and assaulted. Having a beach promenade doesn’t matter if strolling along it means taking the risk of being knocked down and robbed. No one is going to participate in the vibrant night-life if there is a good chance that they will wake up three days later in the hospital with all their possessions gone, or in some cases, not wake up at all. No one is going to seek an exotic experience if it means they might be set up by girls with both a legal age and under age ID, and then extorted for immense sums by the police.

Pattaya is being inundated with rude obnoxious thugs who do not care about the city or its visitors. They do not listen to the community leaders, and the police do not have the budget or manpower to control them. They are driving away the tourists and the income and jobs that they bring. Inevitably, this rabble will win as they reduce everyone to their level of poverty.

Meanwhile, tourism to Cambodia is increasing by 50% every six months...

--Lawrence Neal, "Down on Pattaya," Pattaya Mail, Friday 31 January 1997 - 6 February 1997

[lonewolf99]

I personnaly know a Chinese person here who is helping another Chinese person locate, buy and set up a hotel for

....Chinese Tourists.

I see more and more independant Chinese travelers every day, and I just got off a Baht Bus on Jomtien Beach road this morning where two pretty young Chinese ladies got on board after passing their phone to the driver to speak to the person giving directions where they wanted to go.

Sorry for the over use of the word Chinese....but if you plan on staying here better get used to it.....fast.

Other foreigners....well you had your turn now make way....

BTW I never use the derogotary Thai word for us westerners that also begins with F.

[oldlakey]

Certainly right Jingthing. Friend, who supplies mostly foreign run restaurants & pubs etc. in BKK area tells me more than 40% of his clients have shut down last 18 months and he expects worse to come. Just check out the hundreds & hundreds of shop-houses along main roads closed down in Pattaya. Seems that many of the businesses in prime area like Bouakao keep rotating owners. Plenty of suckers around... Guess, only few really make a living, but might be wrong. Glad I never got sucked into starting something here, must be very! difficult. MS>

40% down and still surviving?

The answer is in his business plan 40% increase in prices

[Thaidream]

Mr Frog Legs has given as good an explanation as I have ever read on business in SE Asia. However, running a manufacturing operation has its own issues but the issues in running a bar or restaurant are somewhat different. In the manufacturing business you must have the correct permits and licenses and pay your taxes. That is not necessarily so in the Bar business. These things are handled a different way as JT alludes to. Since the focus is on Pattaya, I would agree that the scenario is changing and it is based on several things. There has been too much crime in the area for too long and most of it centers around alcohol and activities of the evening and the most visible purveyor of this is non Thai bar owners and businesses. In addition, several international criminals are involved in this type of business and constantly providing fodder for the news media.

In addition. those that received protection , are losing it and it will soon be gone. The Thai government is not interested in seeing sex tourism increase- this time- they want to kill it forever. They want Thailand to become family friendly and develop attractions that bring families to the Kingdom. Hence, you see water parks; malls; promenades and other family type activities evolve. There is no growth industry in bars that cater to Western tourists. Why do you think so many want out. They don't care if the single Western tourist or expat doesn't come tho Thailand or they move to Cambodia. There are millions or Chinese and Indian families who will replace them.

I don't perceive any anti western trend per se against a normal tourist family or retired expats. Most keep a low profile; abide by the local customs; and follow the rules. Those that don't will feel the pain.

[lou62]

Some go out of business or close and relocate due to their lease being up for renewal.

The landlord then increases the rent hugely, forcing people to decide if it's worth it anymore.

I know of three bars that have relocated (one only across the same Soi) owing to the large rent increase.

[Bender]

a steadily increasing number of reports of tourists being insulted, assaulted, drugged, robbed and extorted. . . . the narrow, seven meter wide ribbon of sand is dirty, fronted by polluted water, and monopolized by chair vendors who gallantly leave the outlets of the street drains for those who do not wish to rent a chair. . . . vehicles prevents them from taking all available parking along Beach Road . . . streets . . . garbage . . . no one is going to walk down them if doing so leaves them open to being insulted and assaulted. Having a beach promenade doesn’t matter if strolling along it means taking the risk of being knocked down and robbed. No one is going to participate in the vibrant night-life if there is a good chance that they will wake up three days later in the hospital with all their possessions gone, or in some cases, not wake up at all. No one is going to seek an exotic experience if it means they might be set up by girls with both a legal age and under age ID, and then extorted for immense sums by the police.

Pattaya is being inundated with rude obnoxious thugs who do not care about the city or its visitors. They do not listen to the community leaders, and the police do not have the budget or manpower to control them. They are driving away the tourists and the income and jobs that they bring. Inevitably, this rabble will win as they reduce everyone to their level of poverty.

Meanwhile, tourism to Cambodia is increasing by 50% every six months...

--Lawrence Neal, "Down on Pattaya," Pattaya Mail, Friday 31 January 1997 - 6 February 1997

you still keep the newspaper Pattaya Mail from 1997? J1Pack, when was the last time you set a foot outside crime city?

Lawrence Neal was right 20 years ago, he must own a DeLorean car

On a serious note, the dismiss of pattaya was dealayed for 2 decades mostly because of the huge availability of young exotic creature long ago for a cheap price

[ozyjon]

Foreign owned business closings ... worse than ever?

It's been predicted over and over that we are heading to the mother of all financial collapse during June to

December 2016, i won't post any links because it's all over Google and YouTube.

Look at the indicators,,,

*Russia

*The continuing, unstoppable refugee crisis,

*Brexit

*Crude oil fluctuations

*Panama papers revealing fraud

*The FIAT monetary system

*American elections

*China, Russia and the Arab states are in talks to end the

US Dollar as a reserve currency and start using a new

currency to trade crude oil (Euro is high on the list) and

end the reliance on the US Dollar

There's more but let's wait until it happens, for example, why

is China stockpiling Silver bullion at an alarming rate.

You can Google all this, world economy is set to implode,

the best business to be in i think is a gold shop,, just wait.

Keep your ears and eyes open in the next few months for

revelation implying these countries that could lead to a new

world conflict, Italy, Israel, Spain and Portugal, lets see.

Let's start a new thread again ''Wheres the best place to live''

keep an eye on South America in the coming years.

[djlest]

Its not easy running Thai business and many will fail esp during the hard times - making it in Thailand is far harder than back home in my opinion. However you will always see loads of foreign business still thriving - the secret to these is they are the best or the only Niche in their demographic.. Food & drink is always difficult and over saturated, if you make a good idea it will be copied.... however if you offer a service that the Thais cannot copy due to lets say lack of skills... then you reign supreme.

[OMGImInPattaya]

The topic that was about business in thailand has turn to food and bar in pattaya... which is far from being the center of the world but is obviously it for many TV folks.

I have had a business in thailand for 15 years, in manufacturing, focusing on medium and large size companies. We employ 10 foreigners, used to have 15.

The labour dept is making our life more and more difficult each year to renew our WP to a point that we are wondering when they will simply say no instead or creating requests of new forms and documents as they do each year.

The economy is a mess, we have lost a large number of our customers who did not bother with trying to make it here anymore, and they have moved to Myanmar, Vietnam and Cambodia.

Our office in Myanmar and Cambodia are growing much faster, Thailand is shrinking, while 15 years ago we all believed Thailand had a bright future.

Unless someone at the government level realises this, we are heading straight into a wall. What need to change dramatically is:

1. Education, Thailand produces followers, not leaders. We have a very hard time making them managers.
2. Attitude to foreigners: we are not welcome anymore, we are supposed to invest and leave it to them to decide everything with our money
3. Values at work: reward the people who help you evolve with some loyalty, both ways, understanding there is a lot to learn after school

what we see in Thailand vs Myanmar/Cambodia is:

in Thailand

1. Entry level salary for newly university graduate, more than doubled in 10 years (from 15-20K to 45K baht).
2. Level of English stayed the same or maybe got worse
3. Attitude to work is worsened, it now looks like we should be grateful they work for us
4. Mobility has increased, Thai people change jobs for little money, no loyalty even if you train them 12 months
5. Admin and compliance to ever changing regulations from government is making our life extremely difficult and worrisome. Renewing your Visa is a moving target each year
6. Life is easier in Thailand as there are already so many facilities, Medical, quality hospital, international school, and rent remains at an acceptable level.
7. Not sure what to say about corruption, leave it to you to appreciate

in Myanmar/Cambodia

1. Salaries remain competitive for people you have to train, still 12-15K entry level. Will increase of course with time.
2. Level of English is much higher
3. They are happy to work for foreigners as they view it as a way to evolve and learn
4. Greater loyalty
5. Hard worker
6. No issues for WP or Visa, Helpful at any level to say the least.
7. Rent in Myanmar is too high still but going down as offer increases
8. Lack of services like road, electricity, medical and school still behind - but developing.
9. Corruption has been reduced dramatically.
10. Cambodia is very similar to Myanmar except Infrastructure and Service is much more developed. Life is easier than in Myanmar.

Would love to see if anyone sees this differently

FLG

Whatever difficulties you may have had growing your business, Thailand's GDP has more than doubled in the past 15 years so apparently others don't seem to have a problem growing their's.

[MadMuhummad]

Foreign owned business closings ... worse than ever?

It's been predicted over and over that we are heading to the mother of all financial collapse during June to

December 2016, i won't post any links because it's all over Google and YouTube.

Look at the indicators,,,

*Russia

*The continuing, unstoppable refugee crisis,

*Brexit

*Crude oil fluctuations

*Panama papers revealing fraud

*The FIAT monetary system

*American elections

*China, Russia and the Arab states are in talks to end the

US Dollar as a reserve currency and start using a new

currency to trade crude oil (Euro is high on the list) and

end the reliance on the US Dollar

There's more but let's wait until it happens, for example, why

is China stockpiling Silver bullion at an alarming rate.

You can Google all this, world economy is set to implode,

the best business to be in i think is a gold shop,, just wait.

Keep your ears and eyes open in the next few months for

revelation implying these countries that could lead to a new

world conflict, Italy, Israel, Spain and Portugal, lets see.

Let's start a new thread again ''Wheres the best place to live''

keep an eye on South America in the coming years.

Just for the record, how much bullion do you personally own and which gold shop are you planning on purchasing?

[Brer Fox]

The topic that was about business in thailand has turn to food and bar in pattaya... which is far from being the center of the world but is obviously it for many TV folks.

I have had a business in thailand for 15 years, in manufacturing, focusing on medium and large size companies. We employ 10 foreigners, used to have 15.

The labour dept is making our life more and more difficult each year to renew our WP to a point that we are wondering when they will simply say no instead or creating requests of new forms and documents as they do each year.

The economy is a mess, we have lost a large number of our customers who did not bother with trying to make it here anymore, and they have moved to Myanmar, Vietnam and Cambodia.

Our office in Myanmar and Cambodia are growing much faster, Thailand is shrinking, while 15 years ago we all believed Thailand had a bright future.

Unless someone at the government level realises this, we are heading straight into a wall. What need to change dramatically is:

1. Education, Thailand produces followers, not leaders. We have a very hard time making them managers.
2. Attitude to foreigners: we are not welcome anymore, we are supposed to invest and leave it to them to decide everything with our money
3. Values at work: reward the people who help you evolve with some loyalty, both ways, understanding there is a lot to learn after school

what we see in Thailand vs Myanmar/Cambodia is:

in Thailand

1. Entry level salary for newly university graduate, more than doubled in 10 years (from 15-20K to 45K baht).
2. Level of English stayed the same or maybe got worse
3. Attitude to work is worsened, it now looks like we should be grateful they work for us
4. Mobility has increased, Thai people change jobs for little money, no loyalty even if you train them 12 months
5. Admin and compliance to ever changing regulations from government is making our life extremely difficult and worrisome. Renewing your Visa is a moving target each year
6. Life is easier in Thailand as there are already so many facilities, Medical, quality hospital, international school, and rent remains at an acceptable level.
7. Not sure what to say about corruption, leave it to you to appreciate

in Myanmar/Cambodia

1. Salaries remain competitive for people you have to train, still 12-15K entry level. Will increase of course with time.
2. Level of English is much higher
3. They are happy to work for foreigners as they view it as a way to evolve and learn
4. Greater loyalty
5. Hard worker
6. No issues for WP or Visa, Helpful at any level to say the least.
7. Rent in Myanmar is too high still but going down as offer increases
8. Lack of services like road, electricity, medical and school still behind - but developing.
9. Corruption has been reduced dramatically.
10. Cambodia is very similar to Myanmar except Infrastructure and Service is much more developed. Life is easier than in Myanmar.

Would love to see if anyone sees this differently

FLG

Whatever difficulties you may have had growing your business, Thailand's GDP has more than doubled in the past 15 years so apparently others don't seem to have a problem growing their's.

And if you were keeping up with statistics you will find the GDP is slowly grinding to a halt over the last few years. The way things are going there is every chance it will be negative within 5 years. I expect your businesses are expanding at a rate of knots despite all that and that. Your astute business acumen will no doubt overcome the difficulties many others seem to have such as described in the post that you respond to with your cheap hollow throwaway lines. You expose yourself as an economic dunce.