New Brexit polls suggest shift in favour of leaving the EU

[Gary A]

The very inept president of the US thinks the Brits should keep their boat tied to the sinking EU ship. That alone should be enough for you to vote OUT.

[chiang mai]

Well I am definitely not old middle aged maybe

We have our own tax number and pay taxes to the UK we don't need another linked to the EU...why do you think they want it? Just for the fun of it? it will be funny when all these with a lot of money are being hammered by the EU...and it will probably happen

I am all for going forward in a EU that allows countries to be countries and to work together, which I have no doubt we could do with out all the morons in Brussels putting there two pence in

Younger generations generally didn't see it in the beginning when it was the EEC and the EFTA, they only know what it is today so can't really make an informed choice only being apart of one side and yes maybe the devil you know is a better option for them. Older foggies as you put it have seen both sides and prefer how it was to how it is

On a different note, if we stay in I hope things get sorted before the EU implodes on its self, there are a lot of countries struggling or starting to struggle in the EU. So how much longer will it last? Maybe forever...maybe not. Better to be in the lifeboat now that wait for it to start sinking. You can only bail out for so long

I'm 67 and I've lived all over the world and consider myself worldly wise yet I support Remain. I also have a UK tax ID and NI Number, a US SSc number and a tax ID, I also have a Thai tax ID and I pay taxes in all three countries. So having an EU tax number is no great shakes for me and I can't see really why anybody else is getting excited about it.

Because it implies that they are looking to impose their own tax? But I could be wrong about this as perhaps there is another reasonable explanation?

I know this may sound wildly crazy but how about:

citizens of each EU country are entitled to live and work in any other EU country so how about having a common tax ID number that is transferable between countries? It's a bit futuristic I know but not beyond the realms of impossibility plus you know what, it actually makes a lot of sense.

[dick dasterdly]

The very inept president of the US thinks the Brits should keep their boat tied to the sinking EU ship. That alone should be enough for you to vote OUT.

That's a bad argument. You should have left it as 'the president of the US thinks etc.' - as that would have been a valid point as to how other powers are concerned about a possible break-up of the EU.

"inept" just proves bias about an unrelated issue.

[beautifulthailand99]

Here is a simple take on things.

UK exits the EU

Sterling drops by 10%

Exporters are charged 5% to 10 % tariffs by EU countries - I don't believe this will happen but there is a contra there. 10% gain on exchange rate with 10% tariff

So far the exporters don't gain/lose

Now look at the consumer

We exit the EU and sterling drops 10%

However, we remove all tariffs on all countries across the world.

Prices go up 10% due to the exchange rate but fall in real terms due to the tariffs being reduced to ALL countries.

We could now see 5 to 10% reduction in prices for consumers.

Therefore the consumers are now happy & the economy should grow

UK is approx 65% consumption, 30 % exports so the consumer gains outweigh the contra on exporters.

Add to this 10 billion we save from EU fees, access to our waters to fish again (hopefully) & we should thrive. Take the shackles off the UK.

Migrants we still come to support our economy, but we will have a bit more control than we do now.

We also become masters of our own destiny again & get rid of all those faceless bureaucrats.

Every day we read clueless suggestions from the LEAVE forum team, not one of whom appears to have studied economics at any time whatsoever. But Hey-Ho! Carry On!

As we get closer to the vote we see more of the voice of reason coming out to have their 10pennyworth. Which is as it should be. As we will be staying if you got a sterling baht transfer coming up wait for the post Bremain-bounce when we may get a few more baht for the pound for a few days - it will soon drop back again as the post vote reality sets in and the very real problems facing the British and the world economy start to fly out of the woodwork.

[dick dasterdly]

Well I am definitely not old middle aged maybe

We have our own tax number and pay taxes to the UK we don't need another linked to the EU...why do you think they want it? Just for the fun of it? it will be funny when all these with a lot of money are being hammered by the EU...and it will probably happen

I am all for going forward in a EU that allows countries to be countries and to work together, which I have no doubt we could do with out all the morons in Brussels putting there two pence in

Younger generations generally didn't see it in the beginning when it was the EEC and the EFTA, they only know what it is today so can't really make an informed choice only being apart of one side and yes maybe the devil you know is a better option for them. Older foggies as you put it have seen both sides and prefer how it was to how it is

On a different note, if we stay in I hope things get sorted before the EU implodes on its self, there are a lot of countries struggling or starting to struggle in the EU. So how much longer will it last? Maybe forever...maybe not. Better to be in the lifeboat now that wait for it to start sinking. You can only bail out for so long

I'm 67 and I've lived all over the world and consider myself worldly wise yet I support Remain. I also have a UK tax ID and NI Number, a US SSc number and a tax ID, I also have a Thai tax ID and I pay taxes in all three countries. So having an EU tax number is no great shakes for me and I can't see really why anybody else is getting excited about it.

Because it implies that they are looking to impose their own tax? But I could be wrong about this as perhaps there is another reasonable explanation?

I know this may sound wildly crazy but how about:

citizens of each EU country are entitled to live and work in any other EU country so how about having a common tax ID number that is transferable between countries? It's a bit futuristic I know but not beyond the realms of impossibility plus you know what, it actually makes a lot of sense.

Good explanation that makes sense. We can make up our own minds as to whether or not we think this is the reasoning behind an EU tax number.

[DUS]

When reading this thread you might be forgiven to think that Brexit is a done deal and that a clear majority will vote to leave the EU.

Question: With most of the posters in this thread being very, very passionate about Brexit and expressing very stark anti EU opinions what would you do or say if the bookies are correct and that the majority will vote to remain?

Edited June 16, 2016 by DUS

[billd766]

And now that Germany has admitted that it is concerned that a Brexit vote could lead to a collapse of the EU, we all now know why.

= typical "leave bo llocks fairy tale"

quote "= typical "leave bo llocks fairy tale"

Really?

Germany warns Brexit could lead to EU 'disintegration'

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36544641

[nontabury]

Here is a simple take on things.

UK exits the EU

Sterling drops by 10%

Exporters are charged 5% to 10 % tariffs by EU countries - I don't believe this will happen but there is a contra there. 10% gain on exchange rate with 10% tariff

So far the exporters don't gain/lose

Now look at the consumer

We exit the EU and sterling drops 10%

However, we remove all tariffs on all countries across the world.

Prices go up 10% due to the exchange rate but fall in real terms due to the tariffs being reduced to ALL countries.

We could now see 5 to 10% reduction in prices for consumers.

Therefore the consumers are now happy & the economy should grow

UK is approx 65% consumption, 30 % exports so the consumer gains outweigh the contra on exporters.

Add to this 10 billion we save from EU fees, access to our waters to fish again (hopefully) & we should thrive. Take the shackles off the UK.

Migrants we still come to support our economy, but we will have a bit more control than we do now.

We also become masters of our own destiny again & get rid of all those faceless bureaucrats.

Every day we read clueless suggestions from the LEAVE forum team, not one of whom appears to have studied economics at any time whatsoever. But Hey-Ho! Carry On!

Well here's one economist who used to advise the Beurocrats in Brussels. He even mentions the currency,which may be informative to C.M.

http://shr.gs/2LI1fRL

[DUS]

Germany warns Brexit could lead to EU 'disintegration'

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36544641

Of course it could..... That´s what everyone knew from day 1.

[DUS]

If contrary to what the bookies believe a majority will vote to leave the EU, I guess it will be a massive party for the Brexiteers followed by a terrible hangover for everyone. :-)

But we´ll see..... It´s gonna be fun either way.....

[dick dasterdly]

When reading this thread you might be forgiven to think that Brexit is a done deal and that a clear majority will vote to leave the EU.

Question: With most of the posters in this thread being very, very passionate about Brexit and expressing very stark anti EU opinions what would you do or say if the bookies are correct and that the majority will vote to remain?

I eventually decided not to vote as I think a Brexit vote would result in a far more right wing UK government. Consequently I would be ambivalent about either a Remain or Brexit vote.

Edited June 16, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[billd766]

And now that Germany has admitted that it is concerned that a Brexit vote could lead to a collapse of the EU, we all now know why.

= typical "leave bo llocks fairy tale"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/925315-germany-warns-brexit-could-lead-to-eu-disintegration/

[Naam]

And now that Germany has admitted that it is concerned that a Brexit vote could lead to a collapse of the EU, we all now know why.

= typical "leave bo llocks fairy tale"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/925315-germany-warns-brexit-could-lead-to-eu-disintegration/

i don't agree with the interpretation of Steinmeier by a BBC-journalist.

these are Steinmeiers words:

http://www.finanzen.net/nachricht/aktien/BREXIT-Steinmeier-und-Ayrault-warnen-vor-Brexit-Folgen-4936573

[dick dasterdly]

And now that Germany has admitted that it is concerned that a Brexit vote could lead to a collapse of the EU, we all now know why.

= typical "leave bo llocks fairy tale"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/925315-germany-warns-brexit-could-lead-to-eu-disintegration/

i don't agree with the interpretation of Steinmeier by a BBC-journalist.

these are Steinmeiers words:

http://www.finanzen.net/nachricht/aktien/BREXIT-Steinmeier-und-Ayrault-warnen-vor-Brexit-Folgen-4936573

Not speaking German, is the BBC quote incorrect?

""It would not just carry on as 28 [members] minus one. It would require concerted efforts to ensure that the union holds together and that a decades-long, successful integration effort does not end in disintegration."

[DUS]

Not speaking German, is the BBC quote incorrect?

""It would not just carry on as 28 [members] minus one. It would require concerted efforts to ensure that the union holds together and that a decades-long, successful integration effort does not end in disintegration."

No, it´s not! Whilst it isn´t a word-by-word translation it conveys the correct meaning.

Edited June 16, 2016 by DUS

[chiang mai]

Every day we read clueless suggestions from the LEAVE forum team, not one of whom appears to have studied economics at any time whatsoever. But Hey-Ho! Carry On!

Well here's one economist who used to advise the Beurocrats in Brussels. He even mentions the currency,which may be informative to C.M.

http://shr.gs/2LI1fRL

I do not read links to papers which try to disguise themselves by failing to put perforations across their pages, every six inches or so.

[SgtRock]

The unbiased FT has now declared its hand.

And the Financial Times is also for In.

It's outstanding reason.

Its editor Lionel Barber told the Today programme:

There will be a political crisis in this country if we vote no – I can’t see David Cameronsurviving.

There will be a shock to the economy … but I think people are underestimating the severity of the shock.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/16/eu-referendum-live-osborne-brexit-budget-leave-tories

Bless their cotton sox. We love Cammy

[SgtRock]

Because it implies that they are looking to impose their own tax? But I could be wrong about this as perhaps there is another reasonable explanation?

I know this may sound wildly crazy but how about:

citizens of each EU country are entitled to live and work in any other EU country so how about having a common tax ID number that is transferable between countries? It's a bit futuristic I know but not beyond the realms of impossibility plus you know what, it actually makes a lot of sense.

How about every Country in the EU currently have differing tax collection Policies and amounts. So it would not be feasible.

It will only be feasible when phase 5 of the ECB plan is implemented, which is the full integration of Monetary policy across the whole EU.

Phase 4 is scheduled to begin in 2020. The only 2 Countries that are exempt are the UK and one of the Scandinavian Countries.

Phase 5 is everyone fully immersed in the EU Monetary Policy or leave the EU completely. The UK Government is talking out its backside when it says the UK will never join the euro, it will, it has no option.

So why not stop flocking about and pull out now instead of continuing with the lies and deceit.

[SgtRock]

Every day we read clueless suggestions from the LEAVE forum team, not one of whom appears to have studied economics at any time whatsoever. But Hey-Ho! Carry On!

Well here's one economist who used to advise the Beurocrats in Brussels. He even mentions the currency,which may be informative to C.M.

http://shr.gs/2LI1fRL

I do not read links to papers which try to disguise themselves by failing to put perforations across their pages, every six inches or so.

Another outstanding contribution to the debate CM.

You are starting to really out do yourself.

[SgtRock]

Here is a simple take on things.

UK exits the EU

Sterling drops by 10%

Exporters are charged 5% to 10 % tariffs by EU countries - I don't believe this will happen but there is a contra there. 10% gain on exchange rate with 10% tariff

So far the exporters don't gain/lose

Now look at the consumer

We exit the EU and sterling drops 10%

However, we remove all tariffs on all countries across the world.

Prices go up 10% due to the exchange rate but fall in real terms due to the tariffs being reduced to ALL countries.

We could now see 5 to 10% reduction in prices for consumers.

Therefore the consumers are now happy & the economy should grow

UK is approx 65% consumption, 30 % exports so the consumer gains outweigh the contra on exporters.

Add to this 10 billion we save from EU fees, access to our waters to fish again (hopefully) & we should thrive. Take the shackles off the UK.

Migrants we still come to support our economy, but we will have a bit more control than we do now.

We also become masters of our own destiny again & get rid of all those faceless bureaucrats.

Every day we read clueless suggestions from the LEAVE forum team, not one of whom appears to have studied economics at any time whatsoever. But Hey-Ho! Carry On!

Like the current Chancellor of the Exchequer you mean.

[Kwasaki]

Yes and what about Osborne's latest cheap shot.

[dick dasterdly]

Here is a simple take on things.

UK exits the EU

Sterling drops by 10%

Exporters are charged 5% to 10 % tariffs by EU countries - I don't believe this will happen but there is a contra there. 10% gain on exchange rate with 10% tariff

So far the exporters don't gain/lose

Now look at the consumer

We exit the EU and sterling drops 10%

However, we remove all tariffs on all countries across the world.

Prices go up 10% due to the exchange rate but fall in real terms due to the tariffs being reduced to ALL countries.

We could now see 5 to 10% reduction in prices for consumers.

Therefore the consumers are now happy & the economy should grow

UK is approx 65% consumption, 30 % exports so the consumer gains outweigh the contra on exporters.

Add to this 10 billion we save from EU fees, access to our waters to fish again (hopefully) & we should thrive. Take the shackles off the UK.

Migrants we still come to support our economy, but we will have a bit more control than we do now.

We also become masters of our own destiny again & get rid of all those faceless bureaucrats.

Every day we read clueless suggestions from the LEAVE forum team, not one of whom appears to have studied economics at any time whatsoever. But Hey-Ho! Carry On!

Like the current Chancellor of the Exchequer you mean.

Not a problem though. He's already told everyone his budget if Brexit wins - which has been laughed at and denied by everyone else .

[stag4]

Andrew Neil does it again

Vaisey was made to look extremely stupid in this interview -good fun, but can't begin to tell you how much I HATE scare tactics (on any subject, not just the EU referendum).

Ed Vaisya, Tory remain MP was wriggling like a worm on a hook, he would not give a straight answer to any of the questions posed. Enjoyed watching him squirm.

Another shot in the foot for Project fear.

I am very surprised that the BBC have not asked Andrew Neil to take annual leave, he really tears the remaining arguments to ribbons.

[SgtRock]

This is brilliant

Caption competition time.

We look like a right pair of mammary glands.

[Caps]

This is brilliant

2679.jpg

Caption competition time.

We look like a right pair of mammary glands.

Is yours really that big George

[allanos]

When reading this thread you might be forgiven to think that Brexit is a done deal and that a clear majority will vote to leave the EU.

Question: With most of the posters in this thread being very, very passionate about Brexit and expressing very stark anti EU opinions what would you do or say if the bookies are correct and that the majority will vote to remain?

I eventually decided not to vote as I think a Brexit vote would result in a far more right wing UK government. Consequently I would be ambivalent about either a Remain or Brexit vote.

Sitting on the fence doesn't achieve very much, DD. Either way, a decision is going to be made, and you are going to have to live with the

consequences of the majority result. Your input is as important as everyone else's.

Perhaps you should resort to the (rather simplistic) analysis known as the "Benjamin Franklin", or "The Duke of Wellington", whereby you list

the pros and cons of Brexit in two separate columns, and plump for the column with the bulk of the points you have notated?

As a matter of interest, Jack Welch, ex-Chief Executive who led GE to such prominence, used to tell his divisional managers that it was infinitely

better for them to make a bad decision than no decision in the work sphere. I subscribe to this philosophy myself.

[chiang mai]

The unbiased FT has now declared its hand.

And the Financial Times is also for In.

It's outstanding reason.

Its editor Lionel Barber told the Today programme:

There will be a political crisis in this country if we vote no – I can’t see

David Cameron

surviving.

There will be a shock to the economy … but I think people are underestimating the severity of the shock.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/16/eu-referendum-live-osborne-brexit-budget-leave-tories

Bless their cotton sox. We love Cammy

Absolute rubbish yet again, the reasons were set out succinctly in the editorial that was posted, anything you heard and saw on the media is superfluous and of course, out of context, again. When asked what he thought of Camerons position in the event of Brexit, the reply came, I can’t see David Cameron surviving. When asked about the economy in the event of Brexit, the reply came back as you posted, people underestimating the severity.

And a quote from that FT link:

"The referendum campaign is a contest between competing values: between liberal internationalism and a pinched nationalism, between an open-trading system and marginalisation. This is why Britain’s allies, from Australia to Japan and the US, have unanimously supported Remain — and why Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump favour Brexit".

As for newspapers and contributions to the debate: if you want fact, read a factual newspaper or periodical, don't read Desmond or Murdoch because they're in the business of selling tabloid copy by any means, fact is not important for either of them. Posting links to tabloids get that post ignored by most people who can think or who are in search of facts.

Edited June 16, 2016 by chiang mai

[dick dasterdly]

When reading this thread you might be forgiven to think that Brexit is a done deal and that a clear majority will vote to leave the EU.

Question: With most of the posters in this thread being very, very passionate about Brexit and expressing very stark anti EU opinions what would you do or say if the bookies are correct and that the majority will vote to remain?

I eventually decided not to vote as I think a Brexit vote would result in a far more right wing UK government. Consequently I would be ambivalent about either a Remain or Brexit vote.

Sitting on the fence doesn't achieve very much, DD. Either way, a decision is going to be made, and you are going to have to live with the

consequences of the majority result. Your input is as important as everyone else's.

Perhaps you should resort to the (rather simplistic) analysis known as the "Benjamin Franklin", or "The Duke of Wellington", whereby you list

the pros and cons of Brexit in two separate columns, and plump for the column with the bulk of the points you have notated?

As a matter of interest, Jack Welch, ex-Chief Executive who led GE to such prominence, used to tell his divisional managers that it was infinitely

better for them to make a bad decision than no decision in the work sphere. I subscribe to this philosophy myself.

I wrote a longish explanation as to why I have problems with both Brexit and the EU, and then there was a power cut that deleted my post... So in short, I have problems with both Brexit and the EU - but my dislike of the EU is entirely due to the cost, ridiculous salaries and a bureaucracy that is so well-funded that it is able to waste money on things like the shape of bananas....

On the other hand, I think Brexit will result in more right-wing policies for both the UK and the EU. Obviously I'm in a tiny minority that thinks this is a bad thing.

[SgtRock]

The unbiased FT has now declared its hand.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/16/eu-referendum-live-osborne-brexit-budget-leave-tories

Bless their cotton sox. We love Cammy

Absolute rubbish yet again, the reasons were set out succinctly in the editorial that was posted, anything you heard and saw on the media is superfluous and of course, out of context, again. When asked what he thought of Camerons position in the event of Brexit, the reply came, I can’t see David Cameron surviving. When asked about the economy in the event of Brexit, the reply came back as you posted, people underestimating the severity.

As for newspapers and contributions to the debate: if you want fact, read a factual newspaper or periodical, don't read Desmond or Murdoch because they're in the business of selling tabloid copy by any means, fact is not important for either of them. Posting links to tabloids get that post ignored by most people who can think or who are in search of facts.

You are starting to sound like Cameron and Osborne CM. I think the term is rattled.

Are you denying that coming out in support of remain makes them bias ? They should have refrained and at least appeared neutral.

Facts CM. You want to talk about facts.

How bizarre. I have asked you direct questions on facts of the true costs of the UK's membership of the EU, not once, but 3 times and you have ignored it every time. You also refuse to touch with a barge pole the ECB's 5 phase operation to complete Monetary Union and Policy

I asked this, as you are a true font of knowledge and would have opened up a whole new range of debating points applicable to the topic, instead of continually going around in circles.

What conclusions should I draw that you refuse to discuss it ?

[Asiantravel]

" Remain is tearing itself apart. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/16/the-europhiles-have-finally-snapped-and-brexit-is-looking-more-l/