New Brexit polls suggest shift in favour of leaving the EU

[animatic]

Out of control nationalism is the tool of profiteers warmongers and short selling bankers.

The push for Brexit appears to be social manipulations for profits for the few, using nationalist jingoism as a lever on people who fear change.

You must ask yourself;

Where have I received my ideas about Brexit from, and who reinforced them, why and how.

The most telling argument against Brexit is,

The majority of pro Brexit posts sound like more eloquent versions of Donald Trump...

Edited June 18, 2016 by animatic

[SgtRock]

I'd also like for someone to tell me a period in history when UK wasn't actually in or part of Europe?

It's not about Europe, it's about the EU.

This is the highly educated remainiacs MJP.

You cannot say things like that.

[FrankGers]

Out of control nationalism is the tool of profiteers warmongers and short selling bankers.

The push for Brexit appears be social manipulations for profits for the few, using nationalist jingoism as a lever on people who fear change.

You must ask yourself;

Where have I received my ideas about Brexit from, and who reinforced them, why and how.

I have not listened to a single person in a position of power.

I want the UK and our citizens to be able to control who control us. It's not difficult.

[MJP]

Out of control nationalism is the tool of profiteers warmongers and short selling bankers.

The push for Brexit appears be social manipulations for profits for the few, using nationalist jingoism as a lever on people who fear change.

You must ask yourself;

Where have I received my ideas about Brexit from, and who reinforced them, why and how.

It's not about nationalism for me. It's simply down to too much power concentrated in the hands of an unelected, unaccountable few.

[allanos]

I'd also like for someone to tell me a period in history when UK wasn't actually in or part of Europe?

It's not about Europe, it's about the EU.

Let's not forget that there once was a time when Britain was called "the sick man of Europe".

Now, Europe is the sick man of Europe!

[RuamRudy]

Out of control nationalism is the tool of profiteers warmongers and short selling bankers.

The push for Brexit appears be social manipulations for profits for the few, using nationalist jingoism as a lever on people who fear change.

You must ask yourself;

Where have I received my ideas about Brexit from, and who reinforced them, why and how.

I have not listened to a single person in a position of power.

I want the UK and our citizens to be able to control who control us. It's not difficult.

Don't forget, it was the citizens who gave the nasty party a majority in government. Should they really be trusted with something like this?

[MJP]

Out of control nationalism is the tool of profiteers warmongers and short selling bankers.

The push for Brexit appears be social manipulations for profits for the few, using nationalist jingoism as a lever on people who fear change.

You must ask yourself;

Where have I received my ideas about Brexit from, and who reinforced them, why and how.

I have not listened to a single person in a position of power.

I want the UK and our citizens to be able to control who control us. It's not difficult.

Don't forget, it was the citizens who gave the nasty party a majority in government. Should they really be trusted with something like this?

. . . and Blair's NewLabour was any less nasty?

[FrankGers]

Out of control nationalism is the tool of profiteers warmongers and short selling bankers.

The push for Brexit appears be social manipulations for profits for the few, using nationalist jingoism as a lever on people who fear change.

You must ask yourself;

Where have I received my ideas about Brexit from, and who reinforced them, why and how.

I have not listened to a single person in a position of power.

I want the UK and our citizens to be able to control who control us. It's not difficult.

Don't forget, it was the citizens who gave the nasty party a majority in government. Should they really be trusted with something like this?

Can we vote them out?

can we vote out Brussels as it stands?

[RuamRudy]

I have not listened to a single person in a position of power.

I want the UK and our citizens to be able to control who control us. It's not difficult.

Don't forget, it was the citizens who gave the nasty party a majority in government. Should they really be trusted with something like this?

. . . and Blair's NewLabour was any less nasty?

Exactly - yet we never learn.

[MJP]

I have not listened to a single person in a position of power.

I want the UK and our citizens to be able to control who control us. It's not difficult.

Don't forget, it was the citizens who gave the nasty party a majority in government. Should they really be trusted with something like this?

. . . and Blair's NewLabour was any less nasty?

Exactly - yet we never learn.

Yup, fair dos.

[tomacht8]

all UK guys I have met want Brexit. brits who want stay are just a bunch of dreamers!

I would brexit, you can still rejoin later, or better, make a new Europe with Norway and Switzerland. we will call it the Europe 2, the new Europe, ...

LOL.

With a gearing ratio of 90% of GDP and a trade deficit of 100bn pounds?

Norway and Switzerland would not touch it with a barge pole.

Frightening the ignorance of its own economic data.

[tomacht8]

Ask yourself this.

If it was a vote to JOIN the EU and we had never been in it....what would your answer be?

Currently the UK would not meet the economic entry criteria for the EU.

The limit is 60% debt ratio of gross domestic product.

The Uk has currently a gearing ratio of 90.6%

Roughly speaking, the country is living beyond its means.

It spends more money than it earns.

Frightening the lack of economic information from the bawlers.

[MJP]

Ask yourself this.

If it was a vote to JOIN the EU and we had never been in it....what would your answer be?

Currently the UK would not meet the economic entry criteria for the EU.

The limit is 60% debt ratio of gross domestic product.

The Uk has currently a gearing ratio of 90.6%

Roughly speaking, the country is living beyond its means.

It spends more money than it earns.

Frightening the lack of economic information from the bawlers.

UK's in deep. But to make the moves to sort this out the UK needs to make its own decisions and not be constrained by Brussels. Clearly it isn't getting any better with the present situation. I believe the £100Bn a year trade deficit is with the rest of the EU by the way.

[allanos]

Ask yourself this.

If it was a vote to JOIN the EU and we had never been in it....what would your answer be?

Currently the UK would not meet the economic entry criteria for the EU.

The limit is 60% debt ratio of gross domestic product.

The Uk has currently a gearing ratio of 90.6%

Roughly speaking, the country is living beyond its means.

It spends more money than it earns.

Frightening the lack of economic information from the bawlers.

I should like to remind you that Greece "doctored" its figures when applying for entry to the European Union, and the EU turned a blind eye to it

in its single-minded (simple minded?) determination to attempt integration. It is yet one further example of political considerations riding roughshod

over common sense; its own "rule book". Talk about beware of Greeks bearing gifts!

It is common cause that the EU has an enormous problem on its hands with the present Greece situation; it is just one of the shaky foundations

underpinning the European Union currently.

The fact that the United Kingdom is heavily geared is actually of no great concern, providing it is well managed. There is enough talent in

Britain to accomplish this.

[GuestHouse]

Got this through from a colleague. It's long but thought I'd share in any case.

THE EU ARE WE IN or OUT

Background

The European Union (EU) can trace its origins from the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) and the European Economic Community (EEC), formed in 1951 and 1958 respectively by the Inner Six countries of Belgium, France, West Germany, Italy, Luxembourg and the Netherlands.17 May 2016. The European Union was established under its current name in 1993 following the Maastricht Treaty. Since then the community has grown in size because of the accession of new member states. The latest major amendment to the constitutional basis of the EU, the Treaty of Lisbon, came into force in 2009. The European Union is an economic and political union of 28 countries. Each of the countries within the Union are independent but they agree to trade under the agreements made between the nations. Twenty two of the member states also belong to the Schengen Area, which is comprised of 26 European countries that have abolished passport and border controls at their common borders. Of the countries that are not part of it, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus and Romania all intend to join, while the United Kingdom and Ireland have opted out. The 28 countries within the European Union include Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom. The European Economic Area (EEA) includes EU countries and also Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It allows them to be part of the EU’s single market.

So what is the purpose of the EU? The European Union itself states its formation was to operate as a single market which allows free movement of goods, capital, services and people between member states. By Definition: The common market is a stage in the multinational integration process, which, in the words of a Court of Justice ruling, aims to remove all the barriers to intra-Community trade with a view to the merger of national markets into a single market giving rise to conditions as close as possible to a genuine internal market.

In 1973 the UK citizens voted to join the Common Market which was to be an organisation which had trade agreements with the member countries and their companies. But over the last 43 years that Common Market concept has been taken over and developed into the European Union which has gradually taken control over more and more areas which have nothing to do with trade. The bureaucrats in charge have now forgotten the original concept of a common market and are pushing forward make the EU one federal state, with one currency, one tax system, one medical system, one pension system, one judicial system and one federal military service controlled by those in charge of the EU.

You obviously didn't read the Treaty of Rome which is what the UK signed up to in 1973 - The very first sentence of the Treaty of Rome states " DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of Europe,"

Please do not just consider the topical subject of uncontrolled immigration, but look at the wider implications detailed below before making your final decision. It’s your choice but remember that choice will affect the future of generations to come.

1. Why would you want to belong to an organisation that is going to manage your future and which is run by unelected, unaccountable, unapproachable, undemocratic predominately left wing socialists bureaucrats. Who are going to decide what you can do or not do in your future and your children’s future, that’s not democracy? If you have a problem in the UK you can write to your member of parliament, does anyone know who you would write to take up an issue on your behalf in the EU?

You are perhaps unaware that the me members of the EU parliament control are elected and it seems you are also unaware that the legislation of the EU is first passed by the elected Members of the EU Parliament and then MUST be accepted by the individual parliaments/governments throughout Europe. So actually two levels of democratic control over the EU legislation.

2. Why would you want to belong to a foreign organisation to which the UK paid in 2015 £17.8 Billion, got back £12.4 Billion in rebate, so UK paid Nett contribution of £12.9 Billion. That is currently £200 for every UK citizen, and could reduce the basic rate of tax by 3 pence in the pound. Yet this organisation is not accountable to any one and its account have not been signed off now for 15 years. So what do they spend our £12.9 Billion on, it’s your money being paid to this organisation but no one can tell you where and why it ends up where it does. If the EU was a private business it would face criminal charges and go into administration

There's something wrong with your maths. The EU is not a foreign organisation it is a 'supra-national organisation' of which the UK is a member ( a bit like why would you want to join a supra-national organisation like NATO).

3. Imagine what that money could have been spent on in the UK. More modern hospitals, care homes and medical services for all the elderly in this country, better schools and roads. And our budget deficit could have been reduced or eliminated.

The UK debt is £1.56 Trillion, the interest alone is £46 billion per year - good look paying that off with money saved on EU contributions.

4. By voting YES to remain in EU this will indicate the UK has accepted this corrupt mis-management of EU finances and accepts its ultimate aim of a federal state controlled centrally from Brussels

The EU certainly needs reform, voting Yes is not an acceptance that the EU must remain in its current condition.

5. No one can give information of how much money pours into the EU coffers and where the money goes annually, and through the mad mismanagement of money, the better the country does financially the more money it has to pay to the EU

Agreed, the EU accounts need addressing.

6. When the UK was instructed by EU to open its borders, on one told us the EU would be opening its borders to the world

The UK was never instructed buy the EU to open its boarders - the rejection of the Schengan agreement is an example of the fact that the UK government has the power to reject EU legislation.

7. Remember in recent conflicts and bomb attacks it’s was not the EU that has organised the protection of people it’s been NATO. What has the EU done about the ISIS issue-nothing? Remember Europe is protected by NATO not by the EU.

NATO has not played a part in the responses to the recent bomb attacks in Europe. You are perhaps confusing NATO with Europol, who have played a part in the response to terrorism within and across Europe. - Nato, is that a supra-national organisation of the sort you don't like?

8. Our military, throughout an illustrious history, has always firstly pledged allegiance to Queen and Country and for the protection of its citizens. If we vote to remain in the EU, once the federal state and its federal state military is achieved, that allegiance to Queen and Country will be forbidden. The pledge allegiance will be to the federal state not the UK and this federal state would also control NATO

Utter cods - can you please give a credible source for this claim (i.e. not something written by someone on meds)

9. The EU insists on the freedom of movement for its 500 million citizens and they can all come to the UK without restriction. So if there is freedom of movement into countries, why is there not freedom of movement out of the country in the form of deportation of foreign criminals?

There is freedom to deport foreign criminals subject to their deportation meeting UK law. When the UK is challenged in the European Court on deportations the challenge is on the basis of 'does the deportation comply with British Law.

Don't get me wrong, I wish British law would allow easier deportations.

In the UK jails there are significant numbers (over 10% of the total amount of those in jail who are foreign nationals- predominately Polish, Albanian etc.). So why is it the UK cannot deport them after they have served their sentence. It is because the European Court of Justice opposes deportation and the country the criminal originated from apposes their return as it means another welfare payment to be made and housing to be found

More cods. The reason why the UK does not deport these people is because UK law does not allow it. We need to change UK law.

10. 5 new countries are set to join EU, Albania, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia & Turkey (75 million people just from this country) all predominately Muslim residents, who when they have joined the EU, will in accordance with EU rules, will have the right to free entry to UK and all its services and benefits.

The UK has a veto on these states joking the EU, as do the French, and the Dutch who have all signalled their intention to veto these nations joining Europe.

11. Be aware of the fact that if we remain in the EU we will become a member nation of a federal state. It is a known intention of the EU that once that federal state has been created then potentially all member countries will be called one name. Imagine the UK becoming known as Federal state No3-it could happen! And so would be lost the rich history of this country

More cods, please provide credible source for your statement.

12. Also be aware that by remaining in the EU, every UK citizen is liable under the European Arrest Warrant to be arrested by a foreign police force in the UK and can be judicially surrendered and be extradited, possibly on the most flimsiest charges. This without evidence being presented against them in a British court of law, as our court has no power to prevent that extradition back to another EU country to stand trial and a possible prison sentence in that countries prisons. This without support of the government (Tony Blair signed the UK up to this) and the CPS. You will be on your own! And not supported by your government

Don't break the law in other people's countries

13. Under the EU current open door immigration policy it is now felt that due to the unsustainable numbers of migrants coming from EU and Non EU countries into UK eventually resentment and civil unrest is an alarming potential. If this open door policy is not stopped our service and benefits infrastructure will collapse under pressure

There is no EU policy that allows open door migration of Non EU citizens.

14. The EU wants the UK to be in the Euro, but the evidence of the failure of the euro can be clearly identified with the current problems in Greece, Spain etc. again another evidence of socialist mis- management

The UK have already rejected the Euro and there are no plans for the UK to join the Euro, nor is there any mechanism by which the EU can force the UK to join the Euro.

15. Mass immigration has led to the loss of the real true identity of the English Saxon person

But the ancestors of the Celts, the Romans, the Picts, the French, and the whole medley of people that make up the mongrel population that refer to themselves as English are not even considered in your rather quaint view of what constitutes and English person.

16. Be aware of the EU pushing on for a EU one federal state, and one federal military service controlled by another unelected socialist bureaucrat named Miss Federicia Mogherini who has a left wing communist background and favours Russia. The European military will be run by this EU commissioner and not by competent military personnel.

I think you need to be more aware that there is a debate in the US that is seriously questioning why the US is bankrolling NATO and why Europeans are not paying for an providing their own military security.

17. The EU wants to align the UK health service to how it is managed in Europe. This could mean the end of the NHS as we know it.

More cods, please provide a credible source for this statement.

18. The EU have stated that they intend to put a tax on every financial transaction undertaken within the UK

The EU have discussed the idea of introducing taxes on financial trades - the tax being levied by the member states and payable to the member states. (not to the EU) - but of course we know that our finance industry is acting in our best interest and doesn't mind taking government bail-outs but does not want to pay for them.

19. The UK cannot undertake international trade deals with countries within the EU but more importantly outside the EU unless it obtains permission from the International Trade Administrator-another socialist’s bureaucrat (an ex teacher-so has a lot of experience of international trade dealing!!). This is what we pay for in our membership to be prevented to do our own international trade deals

There are clear indications that the British Tory party is desperate to sign the TTIP, the French and a number of EU governments have said they will not sign the TTIP, you have made mention of threats to our NHS - I suggest you read up on TTIP and ask yourself do you want the British government to sign it.

20. In the current Tata steelwork problem the EU has banned the UK from bailing out the company as it contravenes EU law regarding company assistance

So what, you've been banging on about socialist and communists now you want government handing money to business? - Odd that.

21. If we vote to remain in EU then our elected democratic parliament and our MPs become subservient to an unelected body based in Brussels

No - we have MEPs who pass European laws which then MUST be ratified by national parliaments - do try to keep up.

22. By voting YES to REMAIN means voting for a loss of UK democracy, a democracy which is enshrined in the Magna Carta. It will also mean a loss of sovereignty.

Democracy is not enshrined in Magna Carta - Magna Carta was an agreement for the Lords and the King to take power from the King - there is not mention of democracy in Magna Carta - I suggest you go read up precisely how few of the clauses under Magna Carta remain on the statute books.

23. All us pay taxes and those taxes go towards the upkeep of foreign nationals that you have never heard of

Give us some facts to chew on, what taxes, what foreigners - Do foreigners in the UK pay tax?.

24. Under EU Common Fishing Policy. French fishing boats can trawl and keep 4000lb of haddock per day. But UK trawlers are restricted to 550lbs per month and the EU is now in charge of the UK 12 mile fishing limit. The main reason all our trawlers sit in harbour and watch foreign fishing fleets fish our waters. How is that a common fishing policy?\

I absolutely agree - not with your numbers but certainly we need to ditch the common fisheries (and common agricultural) programs.

25. UK justice systems are now subservient to the EU Court of Justice-another set of unapproachable bureaucrats. If you cannot make your own laws, control your own borders then you are not an independent sovereign nation

The UK justice system is not subservient to the EU Court of Justice, the EU Court of Justice can only examine EU Court findings with respect to UK law. The findings of the EU Courts are not legally binding on the UK.

26. In December 2015 the EU told the UK banking system to reduce income paid by business to banks every time a credit card is used. So credit card loyalty schemes are being reduced

Credit card companies are charging businesses less - why is that bad news?

27. In 2015 EU instructed UK banks to reduce their liability to account holders from £85k down to £75K, no reason given

It was the EU that introduced the bank deposit protection scheme before the EU brought this in the bank liability was £0.

28. The EU has indicated that if we remain they will be looking at UK pension schemes and try and align them to European schemes which the City of London have already indicated this would be a disaster for the UK pension industry

Where is this claimed? And is that the same City of London we recently dug out of debt while bank managers and financial 'wizards' lined their pockets as the rest of the nation watched interest rates plummet, unemployment rise, homes repossessed and welfare slashed?

29. To ensure a common federal policy the EU is intending to standardise the tax system across the EU so UK HMRC will be managed by Brussels and act as just a tax collector for a foreign power

More cods - The discussions on standardising taxes relates to ensure that corporations (Starbucks, Disney, Amazon etc) pay taxes where they provide services and do not continue to do as the do at present and avoid paying taxes altogether.

Are you happy that corporations are paying next to zero tax by exploiting differences between EU nation tax laws? Imagine what that money could have been spent on in the UK. More modern hospitals, care homes and medical services for all the elderly in this country, better schools and roads. And our budget deficit could have been reduced or eliminated.

30. When the UK government propose new laws they are debated within the House of Commons and accepted under majority voting by all our MPs, who have been democratically elected by the people of this country. Under EU control, the EU make the laws and then informs the 27 member nation’s via issued EU Directives they must implement those directives into their national law.

Once again more cods, you really do not understand how the EU proposes laws that must be ratified by national parliaments do you?!

31. Only 6% of UK companies export to the EU but 100% of UK companies must comply with EU law

No - 100% must comply with UK law. No EU law is applied in the UK unless ratified by the UK parliament and written into UK law by the UK parliament.

32. Remember it was the EU who gave Ford a big grant to move Transit Van production from Dagenham to Turkey

The EU also gave grants to Nissan to move to the UK.

33. Big companies from the USA and Asia have already stated they will increase trade with the UK if it leaves the EU as there will be less trade and financial restrictions to deal with

Many other big companies are backing 'Remain', but don't confuse what is good for big companies with what is good for citizens.

34. Our parents fought in a world war to ensure our freedom and prevent world dominance by Germany, but again Germany is again trying for European dominance but via being one of the leaders of the EU

The EU was founded by the war generation precisely because of their experience of WWII - oh and an awful lot Polish and East Europeans fought alongside our parents in that war.

Does anyone know what the benefits are for belonging to the EU and what are the benefits for not belonging to it? Why has the EU not told us this?

So if you vote for Socialism then vote REMAIN, if you vote CAPITALISM vote to Leave

Is the NHS a capitalist or a socialist enterprise?

Edited June 18, 2016 by GuestHouse

[MJP]

Got this through from a colleague. It's long but thought I'd share in any case.

THE EU ARE WE IN or OUT

Background

The European Union (EU) can trace its origins from the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) and the European Economic Community (EEC), formed in 1951 and 1958 respectively by the Inner Six countries of Belgium, France, West Germany, Italy, Luxembourg and the Netherlands.17 May 2016. The European Union was established under its current name in 1993 following the Maastricht Treaty. Since then the community has grown in size because of the accession of new member states. The latest major amendment to the constitutional basis of the EU, the Treaty of Lisbon, came into force in 2009. The European Union is an economic and political union of 28 countries. Each of the countries within the Union are independent but they agree to trade under the agreements made between the nations. Twenty two of the member states also belong to the Schengen Area, which is comprised of 26 European countries that have abolished passport and border controls at their common borders. Of the countries that are not part of it, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus and Romania all intend to join, while the United Kingdom and Ireland have opted out. The 28 countries within the European Union include Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom. The European Economic Area (EEA) includes EU countries and also Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It allows them to be part of the EU’s single market.

So what is the purpose of the EU? The European Union itself states its formation was to operate as a single market which allows free movement of goods, capital, services and people between member states. By Definition: The common market is a stage in the multinational integration process, which, in the words of a Court of Justice ruling, aims to remove all the barriers to intra-Community trade with a view to the merger of national markets into a single market giving rise to conditions as close as possible to a genuine internal market.

In 1973 the UK citizens voted to join the Common Market which was to be an organisation which had trade agreements with the member countries and their companies. But over the last 43 years that Common Market concept has been taken over and developed into the European Union which has gradually taken control over more and more areas which have nothing to do with trade. The bureaucrats in charge have now forgotten the original concept of a common market and are pushing forward make the EU one federal state, with one currency, one tax system, one medical system, one pension system, one judicial system and one federal military service controlled by those in charge of the EU.

You obviously didn't read the Treaty of Rome which is what the UK signed up to in 1973 - The very first sentence of the Treaty of Rome states " DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of Europe,"

Please do not just consider the topical subject of uncontrolled immigration, but look at the wider implications detailed below before making your final decision. It’s your choice but remember that choice will affect the future of generations to come.

1. Why would you want to belong to an organisation that is going to manage your future and which is run by unelected, unaccountable, unapproachable, undemocratic predominately left wing socialists bureaucrats. Who are going to decide what you can do or not do in your future and your children’s future, that’s not democracy? If you have a problem in the UK you can write to your member of parliament, does anyone know who you would write to take up an issue on your behalf in the EU?

You are perhaps unaware that the me members of the EU parliament control are elected and it seems you are also unaware that the legislation of the EU is first passed by the elected Members of the EU Parliament and then MUST be accepted by the individual parliaments/governments throughout Europe. So actually two levels of democratic control over the EU legislation.

2. Why would you want to belong to a foreign organisation to which the UK paid in 2015 £17.8 Billion, got back £12.4 Billion in rebate, so UK paid Nett contribution of £12.9 Billion. That is currently £200 for every UK citizen, and could reduce the basic rate of tax by 3 pence in the pound. Yet this organisation is not accountable to any one and its account have not been signed off now for 15 years. So what do they spend our £12.9 Billion on, it’s your money being paid to this organisation but no one can tell you where and why it ends up where it does. If the EU was a private business it would face criminal charges and go into administration

There's something wrong with your maths. The EU is not a foreign organisation it is a 'supra-national organisation' of which the UK is a member ( a bit like why would you want to join a supra-national organisation like NATO).

3. Imagine what that money could have been spent on in the UK. More modern hospitals, care homes and medical services for all the elderly in this country, better schools and roads. And our budget deficit could have been reduced or eliminated.

The UK debt is £1.56 Trillion, the interest alone is £46 billion per year - good look paying that off with money saved on EU contributions.

4. By voting YES to remain in EU this will indicate the UK has accepted this corrupt mis-management of EU finances and accepts its ultimate aim of a federal state controlled centrally from Brussels

The EU certainly needs reform, voting Yes is not an acceptance that the EU must remain in its current condition.

5. No one can give information of how much money pours into the EU coffers and where the money goes annually, and through the mad mismanagement of money, the better the country does financially the more money it has to pay to the EU

Agreed, the EU accounts need addressing.

6. When the UK was instructed by EU to open its borders, on one told us the EU would be opening its borders to the world

The UK was never instructed buy the EU to open its boarders - the rejection of the Schengan agreement is an example of the fact that the UK government has the power to reject EU legislation.

7. Remember in recent conflicts and bomb attacks it’s was not the EU that has organised the protection of people it’s been NATO. What has the EU done about the ISIS issue-nothing? Remember Europe is protected by NATO not by the EU.

NATO has not played a part in the responses to the recent bomb attacks in Europe. You are perhaps confusing NATO with Europol, who have played a part in the response to terrorism within and across Europe. - Nato, is that a supra-national organisation of the sort you don't like?

8. Our military, throughout an illustrious history, has always firstly pledged allegiance to Queen and Country and for the protection of its citizens. If we vote to remain in the EU, once the federal state and its federal state military is achieved, that allegiance to Queen and Country will be forbidden. The pledge allegiance will be to the federal state not the UK and this federal state would also control NATO

Utter cods - can you please give a credible source for this claim (i.e. not something written by someone on meds)

9. The EU insists on the freedom of movement for its 500 million citizens and they can all come to the UK without restriction. So if there is freedom of movement into countries, why is there not freedom of movement out of the country in the form of deportation of foreign criminals?

There is freedom to deport foreign criminals subject to their deportation meeting UK law. When the UK is challenged in the European Court on deportations the challenge is on the basis of 'does the deportation comply with British Law.

Don't get me wrong, I wish British law would allow easier deportations.

In the UK jails there are significant numbers (over 10% of the total amount of those in jail who are foreign nationals- predominately Polish, Albanian etc.). So why is it the UK cannot deport them after they have served their sentence. It is because the European Court of Justice opposes deportation and the country the criminal originated from apposes their return as it means another welfare payment to be made and housing to be found

More cods. The reason why the UK does not deport these people is because UK law does not allow it. We need to change UK law.

10. 5 new countries are set to join EU, Albania, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia & Turkey (75 million people just from this country) all predominately Muslim residents, who when they have joined the EU, will in accordance with EU rules, will have the right to free entry to UK and all its services and benefits.

The UK has a veto on these states joking the EU, as do the French, and the Dutch who have all signalled their intention to veto these nations joining Europe.

11. Be aware of the fact that if we remain in the EU we will become a member nation of a federal state. It is a known intention of the EU that once that federal state has been created then potentially all member countries will be called one name. Imagine the UK becoming known as Federal state No3-it could happen! And so would be lost the rich history of this country

More cods, please provide credible source for your statement.

12. Also be aware that by remaining in the EU, every UK citizen is liable under the European Arrest Warrant to be arrested by a foreign police force in the UK and can be judicially surrendered and be extradited, possibly on the most flimsiest charges. This without evidence being presented against them in a British court of law, as our court has no power to prevent that extradition back to another EU country to stand trial and a possible prison sentence in that countries prisons. This without support of the government (Tony Blair signed the UK up to this) and the CPS. You will be on your own! And not supported by your government

Don't break the law in other people's countries

13. Under the EU current open door immigration policy it is now felt that due to the unsustainable numbers of migrants coming from EU and Non EU countries into UK eventually resentment and civil unrest is an alarming potential. If this open door policy is not stopped our service and benefits infrastructure will collapse under pressure

There is no EU policy that allows open door migration of Non EU citizens.

14. The EU wants the UK to be in the Euro, but the evidence of the failure of the euro can be clearly identified with the current problems in Greece, Spain etc. again another evidence of socialist mis- management

The UK have already rejected the Euro and there are no plans for the UK to join the Euro, nor is there any mechanism by which the EU can force the UK to join the Euro.

15. Mass immigration has led to the loss of the real true identity of the English Saxon person

But the ancestors of the Celts, the Romans, the Picts, the French, and the whole medley of people that make up the mongrel population that refer to themselves as English are not even considered in your rather quaint view of what constitutes and English person.

16. Be aware of the EU pushing on for a EU one federal state, and one federal military service controlled by another unelected socialist bureaucrat named Miss Federicia Mogherini who has a left wing communist background and favours Russia. The European military will be run by this EU commissioner and not by competent military personnel.

I think you need to be more aware that there is a debate in the US that is seriously questioning why the US is bankrolling NATO and why Europeans are not paying for an providing their own military security.

17. The EU wants to align the UK health service to how it is managed in Europe. This could mean the end of the NHS as we know it.

More cods, please provide a credible source for this statement.

18. The EU have stated that they intend to put a tax on every financial transaction undertaken within the UK

The EU have discussed the idea of introducing taxes on financial trades - the tax being levied by the member states and payable to the member states. (not to the EU) - but of course we know that our finance industry is acting in our best interest and doesn't mind taking government bail-outs but does not want to pay for them.

19. The UK cannot undertake international trade deals with countries within the EU but more importantly outside the EU unless it obtains permission from the International Trade Administrator-another socialist’s bureaucrat (an ex teacher-so has a lot of experience of international trade dealing!!). This is what we pay for in our membership to be prevented to do our own international trade deals

There are clear indications that the British Tory party is desperate to sign the TTIP, the French and a number of EU governments have said they will not sign the TTIP, you have made mention of threats to our NHS - I suggest you read up on TTIP and ask yourself do you want the British government to sign it.

20. In the current Tata steelwork problem the EU has banned the UK from bailing out the company as it contravenes EU law regarding company assistance

So what, you've been banging on about socialist and communists now you want government handing money to business? - Odd that.

21. If we vote to remain in EU then our elected democratic parliament and our MPs become subservient to an unelected body based in Brussels

No - we have MEPs who pass European laws which then MUST be ratified by national parliaments - do try to keep up.

22. By voting YES to REMAIN means voting for a loss of UK democracy, a democracy which is enshrined in the Magna Carta. It will also mean a loss of sovereignty.

Democracy is not enshrined in Magna Carta - Magna Carta was an agreement for the Lords and the King to take power from the King - there is not mention of democracy in Magna Carta - I suggest you go read up precisely how few of the clauses under Magna Carta remain on the statute books.

23. All us pay taxes and those taxes go towards the upkeep of foreign nationals that you have never heard of

Give us some facts to chew on, what taxes, what foreigners - Do foreigners in the UK pay tax?.

24. Under EU Common Fishing Policy. French fishing boats can trawl and keep 4000lb of haddock per day. But UK trawlers are restricted to 550lbs per month and the EU is now in charge of the UK 12 mile fishing limit. The main reason all our trawlers sit in harbour and watch foreign fishing fleets fish our waters. How is that a common fishing policy?\

I absolutely agree - not with your numbers but certainly we need to ditch the common fisheries (and common agricultural) programs.

25. UK justice systems are now subservient to the EU Court of Justice-another set of unapproachable bureaucrats. If you cannot make your own laws, control your own borders then you are not an independent sovereign nation

The UK justice system is not subservient to the EU Court of Justice, the EU Court of Justice can only examine EU Court findings with respect to UK law. The findings of the EU Courts are not legally binding on the UK.

26. In December 2015 the EU told the UK banking system to reduce income paid by business to banks every time a credit card is used. So credit card loyalty schemes are being reduced

Credit card companies are charging businesses less - why is that bad news?

27. In 2015 EU instructed UK banks to reduce their liability to account holders from £85k down to £75K, no reason given

It was the EU that introduced the bank deposit protection scheme before the EU brought this in the bank liability was £0.

28. The EU has indicated that if we remain they will be looking at UK pension schemes and try and align them to European schemes which the City of London have already indicated this would be a disaster for the UK pension industry

Where is this claimed? And is that the same City of London we recently dug out of debt while bank managers and financial 'wizards' lined their pockets as the rest of the nation watched interest rates plummet, unemployment rise, homes repossessed and welfare slashed?

29. To ensure a common federal policy the EU is intending to standardise the tax system across the EU so UK HMRC will be managed by Brussels and act as just a tax collector for a foreign power

More cods - The discussions on standardising taxes relates to ensure that corporations (Starbucks, Disney, Amazon etc) pay taxes where they provide services and do not continue to do as the do at present and avoid paying taxes altogether.

Are you happy that corporations are paying next to zero tax by exploiting differences between EU nation tax laws? Imagine what that money could have been spent on in the UK. More modern hospitals, care homes and medical services for all the elderly in this country, better schools and roads. And our budget deficit could have been reduced or eliminated.

30. When the UK government propose new laws they are debated within the House of Commons and accepted under majority voting by all our MPs, who have been democratically elected by the people of this country. Under EU control, the EU make the laws and then informs the 27 member nation’s via issued EU Directives they must implement those directives into their national law.

Once again more cods, you really do not understand how the EU proposes laws that must be ratified by national parliaments do you?!

31. Only 6% of UK companies export to the EU but 100% of UK companies must comply with EU law

No - 100% must comply with UK law. No EU law is applied in the UK unless ratified by the UK parliament and written into UK law by the UK parliament.

32. Remember it was the EU who gave Ford a big grant to move Transit Van production from Dagenham to Turkey

The EU also gave grants to Nissan to move to the UK.

33. Big companies from the USA and Asia have already stated they will increase trade with the UK if it leaves the EU as there will be less trade and financial restrictions to deal with

Many other big companies are backing 'Remain', but don't confuse what is good for big companies with what is good for citizens.

34. Our parents fought in a world war to ensure our freedom and prevent world dominance by Germany, but again Germany is again trying for European dominance but via being one of the leaders of the EU

The EU was founded by the war generation precisely because of their experience of WWII - oh and an awful lot Polish and East Europeans fought alongside our parents in that war.

Does anyone know what the benefits are for belonging to the EU and what are the benefits for not belonging to it? Why has the EU not told us this?

So if you vote for Socialism then vote REMAIN, if you vote CAPITALISM vote to Leave

Is the NHS a capitalist or a socialist enterprise?

GH, I put this up unedited, it's from someone else (received an email from a colleague earlier). Interested to read responses.

[Mosha]

whatever anyone says - Brexit is an ENGLISH campaign - it is not supported by the 3 other main nations in the UK.

If UK does pull out it is a certainty that Scotland will as soon as possible leave the

Union and join the EU - they have historically always had very strong ties with Europe -

The Irish Nationalists will also campaign for Northern Ireland to join with the South - something that is more attainable if the UK leave ...

As for Wales - who owe much of their infrastructure to the Eu - well ....I guess they have a population similar to Norway so I'm sure they can negotiate a deal to join the EU too.

Really the referendum should have asked if you want to take ENGLANd out of the EU -= because that's how it will end up.

I know many Irish Republic citizens who are pissed of with the EU. I think the opinion polls in Scotland to leave the UK are around 40%.

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[Mosha]

I have not listened to a single person in a position of power.

I want the UK and our citizens to be able to control who control us. It's not difficult.

Don't forget, it was the citizens who gave the nasty party a majority in government. Should they really be trusted with something like this?

. . . and Blair's NewLabour was any less nasty?

Exactly - yet we never learn.

I remember the Kinnock speech where he hit the nail on the head. The Liverpool contingent walked out. The best speech the Welsh windbag ever made.

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[Mosha]

Ask yourself this.

If it was a vote to JOIN the EU and we had never been in it....what would your answer be?

Currently the UK would not meet the economic entry criteria for the EU.

The limit is 60% debt ratio of gross domestic product.

The Uk has currently a gearing ratio of 90.6%

Roughly speaking, the country is living beyond its means.

It spends more money than it earns.

Frightening the lack of economic information from the bawlers.

I should like to remind you that Greece "doctored" its figures when applying for entry to the European Union, and the EU turned a blind eye to it

in its single-minded (simple minded?) determination to attempt integration. It is yet one further example of political considerations riding roughshod

over common sense; its own "rule book". Talk about beware of Greeks bearing gifts!

It is common cause that the EU has an enormous problem on its hands with the present Greece situation; it is just one of the shaky foundations

underpinning the European Union currently.

The fact that the United Kingdom is heavily geared is actually of no great concern, providing it is well managed. There is enough talent in

Britain to accomplish this.

I think it was the Rothschilds who doctored the figures. I may be wrong

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[tomacht8]

Ask yourself this.

If it was a vote to JOIN the EU and we had never been in it....what would your answer be?

Currently the UK would not meet the economic entry criteria for the EU.

The limit is 60% debt ratio of gross domestic product.

The Uk has currently a gearing ratio of 90.6%

Roughly speaking, the country is living beyond its means.

It spends more money than it earns.

Frightening the lack of economic information from the bawlers.

I should like to remind you that Greece "doctored" its figures when applying for entry to the European Union, and the EU turned a blind eye to it

in its single-minded (simple minded?) determination to attempt integration. It is yet one further example of political considerations riding roughshod

over common sense; its own "rule book". Talk about beware of Greeks bearing gifts!

It is common cause that the EU has an enormous problem on its hands with the present Greece situation; it is just one of the shaky foundations

underpinning the European Union currently.

The fact that the United Kingdom is heavily geared is actually of no great concern, providing it is well managed. There is enough talent in

Britain to accomplish this.

I think it was the Rothschilds who doctored the figures. I may be wrong

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Absolutly.

The EU is going the wrong way.

Rather than leave the EU, I would prefer to deselect the warts politicians in each country and better elect newly forces in the parliament, that clean up this turd.

I support the reform of the EU.

1. Strong external borders without uncontrolled immigration ( in fact it is an islamic migration but to write this open, your will be labeled as ....).

2. Returning to the computing unit ECU, and an end to the euro money madness (give back the Greeks the drachm).

3. Debt reduction in the budgets and return to interest on savings deposits (with an interest rate of 3% - 50% of all EU States would be bankrupt).

4, More grassroots democracy and strengthened sovereignty of individual member states.

And we will get even more problems in europe (UK included doesn´t matter if brexit or not 555).

China and India in the future will teach us what is cheap labor.

[brewsterbudgen]

Nice to see the point by point refutation of the very long post of, mostly inaccurate, Brexit arguments. Maybe the more sober political atmosphere will lead to wiser decision making on 23 June.

[Johnyo]

Out of control nationalism is the tool of profiteers warmongers and short selling bankers.

The push for Brexit appears be social manipulations for profits for the few, using nationalist jingoism as a lever on people who fear change.

You must ask yourself;

Where have I received my ideas about Brexit from, and who reinforced them, why and how.

I have not listened to a single person in a position of power.

I want the UK and our citizens to be able to control who control us. It's not difficult.

Delusional

[MJP]

Guardian: I like the EU, but I’m voting out - Patrick Collinson (editor)

https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2016/jun/18/eu-vote-brexit-working-people-rents-wages

[Thaiwine]

Guardian: I like the EU, but I’m voting out - Patrick Collinson (editor)

https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2016/jun/18/eu-vote-brexit-working-people-rents-wages

Wow can't believe it was the Guardian,

[brewsterbudgen]

Guardian: I like the EU, but I’m voting out - Patrick Collinson (editor)

https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2016/jun/18/eu-vote-brexit-working-people-rents-wages

Wow can't believe it was the Guardian,

He writes for The Guardian (he's the Money Editor) and this is his personal view. The Guardian will be recommending Remain. Edited June 18, 2016 by brewsterbudgen

[WhamBam]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why people would actually vote to live under autocratic rule that is akin to dictatorship. To live in a country where your own government has little or no say in laws, rules and regulations that are made. To be told by foreign people what taxes to pay, where you can fish, what armed forces you have to join and so much more.
To have foreign police on your own soil.
And to pay for the privilege.

Where else in the world would the people stand for this??

Would Americans vote to be ruled by the Mexicans? Or vice-versa? Or Thailand to be ruled by a group from Asia combining the likes of Vietnam, Cambodia and Burma (Myanmar)?

Where else in the world would allow themselves to be overun by foreigners and be told to do so?

Yet all these things and much more is what is happening in Europe now. And there is much worse to come.

Where do these sheeple come from? Why are they so easily led and herded by dogs from other countries who have nothing in common with themselves?

Madness, sheer madness.
The lunatics appear to have taken over the asylum that is Europe and those who vote remain are more crazy sheeple IMHO of course.

[brewsterbudgen]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why people would actually vote to live under autocratic rule that is akin to dictatorship. To live in a country where your own government has little or no say in laws, rules and regulations that are made. To be told by foreign people what taxes to pay, where you can fish, what armed forces you have to join and so much more.

To have foreign police on your own soil.

And to pay for the privilege.

Where else in the world would the people stand for this??

Would Americans vote to be ruled by the Mexicans? Or vice-versa? Or Thailand to be ruled by a group from Asia combining the likes of Vietnam, Cambodia and Burma (Myanmar)?

Where else in the world would allow themselves to be overun by foreigners and be told to do so?

Yet all these things and much more is what is happening in Europe now. And there is much worse to come.

Where do these sheeple come from? Why are they so easily led and herded by dogs from other countries who have nothing in common with themselves?

Madness, sheer madness.

The lunatics appear to have taken over the asylum that is Europe and those who vote remain are more crazy sheeple IMHO of course.

Except that what you have written bears no relation to how the EU operates.

[i claudius]

Guardian: I like the EU, but I’m voting out - Patrick Collinson (editor)

https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2016/jun/18/eu-vote-brexit-working-people-rents-wages

Wow can't believe it was the Guardian,

He writes for The Guardian (he's the Money Editor) and this is his personal view. The Guardian will be recommending Remain.

The Guardian usually does recomend things that 95% of the population are against ,thats why so few people read it

[dick dasterdly]

Guardian: I like the EU, but I’m voting out - Patrick Collinson (editor)

https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2016/jun/18/eu-vote-brexit-working-people-rents-wages

Excellent article.

[SgtRock]

David Cameron.

So ask yourself: have I really heard anything – anything at all – to convince me that leaving would be the best thing for the economic security of my family?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/06/18/an-abject-self-imposed-humiliation-awaits-if-this-proud-importan/

It is what I have not heard that has convinced me that a Brexit is the correct decision for the UK. Not the white noise being rattled about the press.

I will say nothing of your opening paragraph. Suffice to say that I always thought it was impossible to get lower than a snake's belly, but you managed it effortlessly.

Pick up your P45, your done. Drag your economically illiterate best mate with you.