Start a mixed farm in Isaan

[Arkady]

I am not too sure on the viability of buying a 7-11 franchise. My wife used to talk about getting one in Bangkok. I wasn't too keen but I agreed to go along to the presentation to find out more. The CP Group is, as one might imagine, incredibly demanding of franchisees and the only ones who get a slightly easier ride are the ones who can supply their own property in a very good location where CP All wants to open a store. Otherwise you are applying to get a franchise in competition with a lot of other people, most of whom in Bangkok were Chinese and willing to graft away to make money. CP All has minimum educational qualifications and age restrictions for franchisees and also has to approve your staff, who need minimum qualifications and you have to pay for their training by CP. They won't let you just stuff your mother-in-law in to mind the shop. She probably won't make the educational or age requirements. One thing they emphasised is that only want franchisees who are willing to work in the shops themselves and will step in when staff resign or don't show up for work. That sometimes means having to work all day and and all night. Because they want the franchisees to be hands on, they won't let any of them have more than a few stores which means you can't scale your business - the scaling is done by them.

Finally, once your location has proved successful they will open a new store with another franchisee across the street from you and cannibalise your sales.

I wish the OP luck. You seem very dedicated which is admirable. Five rai, if absolutely square is only 89.4 metres each way, if my arithmetic doesn't fail me, which seems rather small.

[Buzzz]

I've been a farmer nearly all my life so here is a little advice. One day you pray for rain, the next day you pray for it to stop, on another day you pray for sunshine and finally you pray it don't get too hot. There is a lot of risk in farming for a living vs being a hobby farmer. Same with any investment, only send what you can afford to lose. Best of luck.

I've done some farming.

3 years you win.

3 years you lose.

3 years you break even.

[Mr Kie]

[djayz]

Respect ?

[Mr Kie]

some of the fruit trees on our property, we planted only 2-5 each, have just started since Feb 2016 and keep adding more and more plants. in the photo just some of it. i'm right now planting more of Siamese Rosewood tree, known as the most expensive tree right now and may go extinct in very near future. keep planting more tree will help to build soil structure and keep the eco balance on our land. we have seen a lot more of earthworm seems getting better now.

[Mr Kie]

got the new chopping machine....

[Mr Kie]

going to make a compost right next to the water 

[Mr Kie]

our chickens existing to be outside, they will get back in the barn before the sunset everyday, 

[Mr Kie]

water pumped from the river to all the farms nearby 

[Mr Kie]

Napier grass for 4 cows, this year they eat only grass, no supplementation but able to maintain good body condition. 

[Mr Kie]

more photo from last week

[EddieAnd]

On 6/4/2016 at 7:29 PM, Jotham79 said:

I will agree that there are a lot of ways to lose money farming, but it is certainly not impossible to make money. There has been a lot of good advice and some not so good. I have lost more than my share of money farming in Thailand and know why it happened. I think you have a very interesting project. I have done everything over the last 20 years here on your list except grapes, lychee, rambutan, mangosteen, mulberry, roselle, pigs, and earth worms, but have done prawns, frogs, quail and a few other crops and fruits (and have forgot some). With enough work almost everything you are doing can be profitable. Here are some thoughts I have in no particular order and forgive me if you are doing them already:

1. Consider adding a small rice mill. Around here the operator gets the rice polishings and the rice hulls. This gives you a supplemental income in the form of the rice polishings that can be sold or feed to your animals. And the rice hulls could be composted to return organic materials to your soil.
2. I will predict that you will have problems with grapes, durian.
3. I would reduce or eliminate Mangosteen, rambutan, lychee, ma fie, but not til you see if they are good producers. See my next point.
4. Learn how to air layer and graft and make your own trees to sell. Double grafting is even better and more profitable. Thing about every tree you bought. Your work, only a little space and a good return. Seed papaya, and seed other shrubs and clone bamboo and bananas.
5. Add a Thai Grapefruit tree to clone from.
6. Add manila tamarind. They will do especially well around your ponds. Fish love fruit that falls and so do chickens and ducks that free range. You have to make sure you get a good strain so look at the fruit on the parent stock
7. Add1-2 Kaffir lime or more.
8. Basil will grow right up alongside a building. Grow extra to feed your livestock. Look at other herbs.
9. Add Putsa Apple.
10. Add as many water collection jars as is practical to every building.
11. Consider some concrete rings to raise catfish but I would stick with Big Oui (I have never had pla duck Russia grow well). There is also a strain of climbing perch that is promising and I am trying to get a small sample to try out. I would also consider one crop of pla duk a year in the smaller pond nearer you house. Drain it to fill the other
12. I would look for the best strain of tilapia you can find and raise them in nets. Throw some Pla Sawai in the ponds if you like to eat them, but not too many. I love hamook.
13. Geese are hard to make money on, but a couple out on your ponds will let you know if you have visitors. If you are well respected in the village, you will have less loss. A mean dog won’t hurt either.
14. Consider getting a small plot and opening a market. Put in a covered structure and run power and build some stalls. Let everyone use it for free for a while and use it yourself. It can be as simple or fancy as you think will work.
15. I would probably opt to pass on Yasohotin. It will cost you about 100 baht per trip and rental on a stall. You are better off building a quality operation and selling as much as you can in the local market which will get more locals to know about your farm and lead to walk in customers. A consistent presence will be rewarded.
16. Look at making your own poultry feed. Consider dropping chickens except for your own use. I am working on a layer/ gai ban cross that is a good layer of small to medium eggs, and meats out more like a gai ban. Put the hens with gai ban roosters and you can make money selling for meat. I would go with Pekin ducks and may be start with a few on your ponds. If you must have laying chickens buy good POL pullets, then cage/coop raise them. Free ranging or just letting them wander around a yard is a money loser.
17. Consider quail. I can give you a lot of info on this. Per square meter you will make more than chicken or ducks.
18. Consider crickets. It was a fad years ago and I thought it died out, but two local feed stores in Petchabun are selling cricket feed bulk. I haven’t done it, but it would be something to look at.
19. The Santol makes a good border for a field or road. Consider drip tape.
20. Put Papaya around your young fruit trees to shade them some while they are young. Some folks use bananas
21. Prik Keenu will grow well in the shade of bananas and papayas.
22. Forget crops for farang like zucchini, strawberries, bell peppers, head lettuce ect…. At least in the beginning .
23. Learn about drip tape (not the same as the hose type irrigation) and plastic mulch. It is used on melons and other crops. You will use a lot less water.
24. You tube and Facebook can be your friend. You are a lot more likely to find people doing exactly the same crop(s) as you and over time will help you advertise.
25. Going organic can be the right thing to do, but most of your local buyers will not pay a premium. Initially it is important to compete on a fair footing.
26. We have 2 rose apple trees and the wife planted a bunch of chillis around one and it had considerably few pests. I hear that chrysanthemums do the same.
27. A light over your pond may help a few pest to become fish food and may discourage visitors.
28. Keeping records will be a valuable exercise over time. Note weekly market prices for crops you are thinking about and when the high prices tend to occur….New Years, Songkran, Chinese New Years, when schools are open or closed. Obviously high prices can mean it is the wrong time a year or it could mean too much water is needed. Once you are running keep detailed costs and income records. When possible track a particular crop just to see what is happening.

I have forgotten at least this much and will let you know if anything comes to me.

Just to be clear, I am not recommending you do all or any particular activities, you will have to set your goals andlimits. I think you are someone who likes to learn and this will be a fun process. Something that works in one place may not work for you and vice versa. You do not need to explain yourself to naysayers. It is easy to say something can’t happen and impossible to prove it. Search for people that have similar experience that are willing to share and have fun.

Chok Dee

Very helpful post sir. Well done.

[Michael Hare]

On 02/06/2016 at 9:31 PM, Nokawou said:

The "salty" water has nothing to do with ancient sea beds and it contains excess Calcium (Ca) not sodium (Na) and the Ca will leave the white calcium carbonate deposits on the surface this will results in excessive alkaline soils. You could try to add gypsum (calcium sulfate) to the soil as a conditioner this will mobilize the Ca and leach it from the soil. The best thing to do is to send some soil samples to a lab for analysis to see what you soil status is this will also indicate how much gypsum to use. There is also a good possibility that the groundwater is stratified and you could get better quality water deeper down, this is all dependent on the geology of you area, you could find out from the neighbors that have wells who has the best water and how deep the well is. With the soil analysis you could find the right crops that will do well on your type of soil and you do not have to experiment that much. Best of luck, you have the right approach and with some effort you will find the right crop for your area that will give you good returns on your investment.

 

The OP is probably correct about the salty soils in his Yasothon village. According to information from the Thailand Department of Land Development over 16% of soils in the northeast are affected by salinity. 

http://www.ldd.go.th/EFiles_html/land%20resource/ed0300.htm

http://www.ldd.go.th/web_eng56/Soil_Resource/Soil_reclamation_techniqes/Reclamation%20of%20saline%20soil%20in%20the%20Northeast.htm

Salt production is carried in many provinces in northeast Thailand. In Ubon Ratchathani where I live, soil salt production is done in Khuangnai, Trakan Phuechphol, Lao-Sua-Koke, Sawang Weerawong, and Muang Ubon districts. Other northeast provinces where soil salt production is done include Yasothon,  Amnat Charoen,  Roi et, Mahasarakham and Chaiyaphum. From 1974 to 1976 I lived in Borabu district of Mahasarakham province and there was a very large soil salt industry there.

The saline soils of the Thung Kula Rong Hai area is why they produce the best Hom Mali rice. 

 

 

[Mr Kie]

half year of farming project....see more progress in the link below 

Edited August 21, 2016 by Mr Kie

[Mr Kie]

seed saving 

[Mr Kie]

my rice farm

[somo]

I haven't read all the posts here so my apologies if I am repeating stuff covered already.

I have recently investigated the mushroom biz. I have visited 2 operations both run by husband and wife teams. the first produces about 4 tons and the second about 2 tons of mushrooms/month at a price of 60 Baht/kilo. The larger one operates on about 2 rai of land but doesn't use all of it and the smaller on less then 1. The variety is "het Fang" not sure of the spelling but it is the one used in tom yam soup. The larger one also buys any amount local producers can provide and will collect.

From the figures they gross about 240 and 120k Baht/month. The initial investment came to about 200k for the larger one and a bit over half that for the smaller. However the beauty of it is that you can start with with just one or two houses and slowly expand. Each house measures roughly 20x 6 metres and gives about 150 kg of mushrooms/15 day cycle.

Other than labour it costs about 4-5000Baht/house/month to replenish materials. The larger operation has 13 houses and the smaller 6 so I estimate the profit to be in the order of 170k and 90k/month. Of course you would need to deduct labour if not doing it yourself. The other big "if" is the how easy it is to sell produce in your area.

Later I will build a few houses for my close family to work but don't personally want to get stuck in myself as it seems to be full time round the clock commitment.

[Mr Kie]

On 25/8/2559 at 0:12 PM, somo said:

I haven't read all the posts here so my apologies if I am repeating stuff covered already.

I have recently investigated the mushroom biz. I have visited 2 operations both run by husband and wife teams. the first produces about 4 tons and the second about 2 tons of mushrooms/month at a price of 60 Baht/kilo. The larger one operates on about 2 rai of land but doesn't use all of it and the smaller on less then 1. The variety is "het Fang" not sure of the spelling but it is the one used in tom yam soup. The larger one also buys any amount local producers can provide and will collect.

From the figures they gross about 240 and 120k Baht/month. The initial investment came to about 200k for the larger one and a bit over half that for the smaller. However the beauty of it is that you can start with with just one or two houses and slowly expand. Each house measures roughly 20x 6 metres and gives about 150 kg of mushrooms/15 day cycle.

Other than labour it costs about 4-5000Baht/house/month to replenish materials. The larger operation has 13 houses and the smaller 6 so I estimate the profit to be in the order of 170k and 90k/month. Of course you would need to deduct labour if not doing it yourself. The other big "if" is the how easy it is to sell produce in your area.

Later I will build a few houses for my close family to work but don't personally want to get stuck in myself as it seems to be full time round the clock commitment.

 

that's interesting and i will have the mushroom house too just small one. 

[Mr Kie]

Free Range Chickens already 3 months and 2 weeks old 

[Mr Kie]

[Mr Kie]

banana grow well on the sandy soil 

[Mr Kie]

see the different before and after

[Mr Kie]

white and red grape 

[Mr Kie]

compost pile 

[somo]

There is a video here on straw mushrooms

  

[Speedo1968]

On 6/2/2016 at 9:31 PM, Nokawou said:

The "salty" water has nothing to do with ancient sea beds and it contains excess Calcium (Ca) not sodium (Na) and the Ca will leave the white calcium carbonate deposits on the surface this will results in excessive alkaline soils. You could try to add gypsum (calcium sulfate) to the soil as a conditioner this will mobilize the Ca and leach it from the soil. The best thing to do is to send some soil samples to a lab for analysis to see what you soil status is this will also indicate how much gypsum to use. There is also a good possibility that the groundwater is stratified and you could get better quality water deeper down, this is all dependent on the geology of you area, you could find out from the neighbors that have wells who has the best water and how deep the well is. With the soil analysis you could find the right crops that will do well on your type of soil and you do not have to experiment that much. Best of luck, you have the right approach and with some effort you will find the right crop for your area that will give you good returns on your investment.

There is an area near Banphai that used to produce salt about 100 years ago.

[Mr Kie]

On 7/9/2559 at 2:44 PM, somo said:

There is a video here on straw mushrooms

Have you started yours? i wanna see how you did it. Thanks 

 

[Mr Kie]

some of fruit tree already start fruiting, but some of it the root is not well established. 

[somo]

On 9/11/2016 at 3:16 PM, Mr Kie said:

Have you started yours? i wanna see how you did it. Thanks 

 

No. I am not that interested in growing mushrooms myself as it is a very much hands on biz. However I have a brother in law who wants move back home from Bangkok who is keen. Once he does (might be a year or two) I will build some houses for him to operate. The fundamental economics are very good.

I have been to visit 3 local farms and you should the same. Take some photos. The wooden structure is pretty basic but you probably need professionals to make the plastic tent that drops on top. You can also get a company to build the lot at about 30k/house. Includes everything.

[Mr Kie]

this week, just wanna try out, got a hundred of mushroom bags from the neighbor and see how they are growing. my interest is to culture the mushroom and sell it.