Teaching English in Isaan?

[Andrew108]

Hi there,

I'm a CELTA certified teacher and I'm really interested in living in rural Thailand. I speak some Thai and I'm especially interested in the culture of Isaan - the people, the food, the music. O.K, so my question is about teaching in Isaan. I've heard that in Bangkok and some other places in Thailand, there is some 'ageism' when it comes to the hiring of English teachers? I'm 48 and don't feel that old, but I was wondering if there are any teachers over the age of 50 working in Isaan and how do they get on? Lots of work available? Lots of good work available?

FYI I have a separate source of income and wouldn't be relying solely on a teacher's salary. I really like working and I really enjoy teaching, and find teaching the best way to meet people. So my idea is to come to perhaps Ubon and see how the teaching scene is. I'd love to hear from people who are in Isaan and what they they about teaching there. Hopefully I've posted this in the right part of the forum. If I haven't, then can the mods please move this post to the right place? Thanks...

[thaiduncankk]

I do not teach, but there are a fair few older than you, in good jobs might I add, teaching in and around Khon Kaen.

[puchooay]

If you are looking to teach legally, work permit etc, you need more than a CELTA.

[DILLIGAD]

The ageism thing is not a problem as respect for elders still exists in Thailand. There are many opportunities for the right type of person. Ensure you are familiar with current requirements as you will be told 'no problem' sometimes by people who do not understand immigration/Labour office requirements. As briefly mentioned above, a degree is required (legally) to teach children in school. Lecturing adults in a University is different again.

Good luck. Ubon's a nice city.

[revgreen]

If you are looking to teach legally, work permit etc, you need more than a CELTA.

You don't need a CELTA at all. You just need a bachelor's degree.

[Andrew108]

Hi guys, thanks for your replies. I should have mentioned that I have a degree, so no problems there. I just love working and love teaching. The only worry in my mind was that I've been told there is ageism in Thailand in regards to hiring foreign teachers. But it seems that this is less of an issue in Isaan, which is something I'm happy about. Thanks.

[brewsterbudgen]

If you are looking to teach legally, work permit etc, you need more than a CELTA.

Rubbish. A degree and a CELTA is more than enough for TEFL.

[Issangeorge]

Andrew 108, if you have a degree there should be no problem getting a job, especially if it is a teaching degree. Go to Ajarn dot com, a few jobs available right now. At this point in the school year they would probably hire just about anyone. That's pretty well how I got all my jobs at age 57 and above the schools were desperate. Although at 48 you shouldn't have a problem, a few schools put their cap at 45, but most are 50 or 55, and I notice more and more seem to be 55. Good luck. I just saw this; " Starting November, students from Prathom 1-3 will spend an average of an hour every day learning English as the state want to improve language proficiency." Should open up a lot of jobs, I have no idea where they will find all the teachers that will be needed. By the way there is an education section that you should look at. Go to the "Teaching in Thailand Forum"

[TerryLH]

"If you are looking to teach legally, work permit etc, you need more than a CELTA."

"Rubbish. A degree and a CELTA is more than enough for TEFL."

You called the first quote 'Rubbish', then agree that more than just a CELTA is needed?

[brewsterbudgen]

"If you are looking to teach legally, work permit etc, you need more than a CELTA."

"Rubbish. A degree and a CELTA is more than enough for TEFL."

You called the first quote 'Rubbish', then agree that more than just a CELTA is needed?

Sorry, maybe English isn't your first language. "More than enough" means sufficient. In other words, a degree and a CELTA (or equivalent) is sufficient to teach EFL.

[happylarry]

"If you are looking to teach legally, work permit etc, you need more than a CELTA."

"Rubbish. A degree and a CELTA is more than enough for TEFL."

You called the first quote 'Rubbish', then agree that more than just a CELTA is needed?

Sorry, maybe English isn't your first language. "More than enough" means sufficient. In other words, a degree and a CELTA (or equivalent) is sufficient to teach EFL.

Forgive me butting in BB but Terry has got a point, he said a CELTA was not enough but then when you wrote your sentence you added on "a degree", but then maybe English isn't your first language.....lol

HL

[brewsterbudgen]

"If you are looking to teach legally, work permit etc, you need more than a CELTA."

"Rubbish. A degree and a CELTA is more than enough for TEFL."

You called the first quote 'Rubbish', then agree that more than just a CELTA is needed?

Sorry, maybe English isn't your first language. "More than enough" means sufficient. In other words, a degree and a CELTA (or equivalent) is sufficient to teach EFL.

Forgive me butting in BB but Terry has got a point, he said a CELTA was not enough but then when you wrote your sentence you added on "a degree", but then maybe English isn't your first language.....lol

HL

Mea culpa.

Rephrase: a CELTA and a degree are more than enough...

[Andrew108]

Thanks guys! Issan George thanks for the detailed reply. Are you still teaching?

[puchooay]

If you are looking to teach legally, work permit etc, you need more than a CELTA.

Rubbish. A degree and a CELTA is more than enough for TEFL.

If you read the timings of the posts, at the time I posted it appeared the OP only had a CELTA. Hence my post.

[Issangeorge]

Thanks guys! Issan George thanks for the detailed reply. Are you still teaching?

No I found it a tremendous amount if work, and although I enjoyed teaching, the kids didn't enjoy my teaching. I kept getting voted out of the school by the students. It finally entered my thick skull that perhaps I wasn't suited to teaching. It was funny, my teacher appraisals were always high, but in Thai government schools where farangs teachers are concerned, the students always rule.

[Andrew108]

Sorry IssanGeorge, do you mean that your students decided whether or not your contract was renewed? I don't quite follow.

[DILLIGAD]

Sorry IssanGeorge, do you mean that your students decided whether or not your contract was renewed? I don't quite follow.

I would suggest he means student feed-back is deemed more important than that from other sources. I believe that is so, where I work to.

[Fookhaht]

In business parlance, the students here are the ultimate "consumers/customers" and have a huge say in whether a contract teacher (Thai or farang) stays or goes at the end of a contract (usually one year).

Of the dozen or so teachers I've seen let go over the years, 80% were truly crackpots.

It's the 20% for whom I felt bad, usually the victims of a vindictive, influential student (over a bad grade or disciplinary incident), or colleague (over a personality clash) who were able to whip up a class-wide backlash against the teacher. The administration usually always takes the word of the protesting students over the teacher's objections and protests.

The downside of "consumer-driven" instructor evaluation.

Here, I have never seen a supervisor or head teacher come to a class to observe/evaluate a teacher's actual instruction, from primary school through university level. This was quite common back in my home country/state/school district which had a considerably higher quality of instruction.

[Issangeorge]

Just about every class I taught, I was evaluated by the head teacher, always good. The last dismissal letter I had I could cut off the bottom fifth and use the top four fifths for a reference letter. Then the bottom fifth, states that we took a vote amongst your students and they don't want you back. That's when I came to the conclusion I didn't relate to them, and there was no point in trying to find a new job, although I was offered several. I had to work to hard only to find I was wasting the students time, and mine.

[DILLIGAD]

In business parlance, the students here are the ultimate "consumers/customers" and have a huge say in whether a contract teacher (Thai or farang) stays or goes at the end of a contract (usually one year).

Of the dozen or so teachers I've seen let go over the years, 80% were truly crackpots.

It's the 20% for whom I felt bad, usually the victims of a vindictive, influential student (over a bad grade or disciplinary incident), or colleague (over a personality clash) who were able to whip up a class-wide backlash against the teacher. The administration usually always takes the word of the protesting students over the teacher's objections and protests.

The downside of "consumer-driven" instructor evaluation.

Here, I have never seen a supervisor or head teacher come to a class to observe/evaluate a teacher's actual instruction, from primary school through university level. This was quite common back in my home country/state/school district which had a considerably higher quality of instruction.

Your right. Guilty until proven innocent seems the order of the day.seen it in action a few times. Also agree about the 'crackpots' comment.

[Fookhaht]

Just about every class I taught, I was evaluated by the head teacher, always good. The last dismissal letter I had I could cut off the bottom fifth and use the top four fifths for a reference letter. Then the bottom fifth, states that we took a vote amongst your students and they don't want you back. That's when I came to the conclusion I didn't relate to them, and there was no point in trying to find a new job, although I was offered several. I had to work to hard only to find I was wasting the students time, and mine.

Just curious, if you care to answer:

Did you include the obligatory 80% "fun and games" as part of every lesson?

Did you dare to fail any student?

I found that to run against the grain of any of these practices created an uphill battle in the classroom, and even sometimes with administration.

Just one or two failed students, if influential, could turn the attitude of a whole class (e.g. A few rotten apples ruining the whole barrel).

[Andrew108]

Interesting. I can see why student feedback is important, but also see that it is open to abuse. The 'fun and games' aspect of teaching is important. Definitely. If you have ever raised teenagers you know how they disengage when ever possible.

[Issangeorge]

I'm no song and dance man, but my last year of teaching I did have some fun and games, but I guess not enough. I also failed students, however in order to fail they would have to have missed about 80% of the classes and tests and assignments. My class was not hard to pass with at least some effort. I did however give a whole class 0 on their final exam, because no one showed up for it. They went to the head of the department about that. I told her they had lots of warning and I told them ahead of time if they didn't write it, they would get 0, unless they had a note saying why they couldn't write it. I even gave them a chance to come to my office and write it. None did. I told the department head if she wanted to change the mark, that was up to her, but I wasn't. However I don't think they gave that class a vote. I think the class they asked was my best class and one I thought would have supported me. That's when I decided I just wasn't relating and decided not to pursue teaching anymore.

[lostinisaan]

Sorry IssanGeorge, do you mean that your students decided whether or not your contract was renewed? I don't quite follow.

I would suggest he means student feed-back is deemed more important than that from other sources. I believe that is so, where I work to.

At Mattayom level, the students' evaluation does count.

But if the person is doing a great job and the Thai superiors understand the quality of the teacher, the students' opinion will be swept under the carpet.

A teacher who really wants his /her students to learn might be less liked than a good looking one who doesn't give a flying one about the kids.

On the other hand a great "tool" to get rid off a teacher they don't like at a high school. "The students' evaluation wasn't good enough"....

Where you're working, the students' word has a lot more weight.

[DILLIGAD]

[quote name="lostinisaan" post="10836152" timestamp="1465402783"

Where you're working, the students' word has a lot more weight.

Yes Herr Lostinisaan and as the longest serving western lecturer there, I've seen it in action a few times. If the wurst (pun) happened, I suppose I could always train to make schnitzels or meat pies!

[Andrew108]

Well I guess I'm having a few second thoughts. It seems there isn't much job security. Perhaps the older guys get bad evaluations because of their age? Maybe. Not really sure about it but I can empathize with George.

[DILLIGAD]

Well I guess I'm having a few second thoughts. It seems there isn't much job security. Perhaps the older guys get bad evaluations because of their age? Maybe. Not really sure about it but I can empathize with George.

I feel the opposite, Andrew108. Older guys (Thai & Farang) can get away with more than the younger guys, as age is still respected here (rightly or wrongly).

[Issangeorge]

Hey, don't get me wrong, it took a while to sink in, but I just wasn't relating to the students. It wasn't for lack of effort, but I just couldn't seem to connect with them. I think if you have taught before, and had good results, you will probably be fine in a Thai school. I just want to clarify, I don't blame the students, I blame my teaching skills. I have a friend who ran a very tight classroom, and would not let the students get away with anything. He was very successful and well respected, by the students, parents, and other teachers. I found out that not only is teaching a lot more work, than the general public think, it is also a lot harder to be a good teacher, than most people think, and not everyone can do it. Obviously I was not able to do it, so I got out.

[lostinisaan]

[quote name="lostinisaan" post="10836152" timestamp="1465402783"

Where you're working, the students' word has a lot more weight.

Yes Herr Lostinisaan and as the longest serving western lecturer there, I've seen it in action a few times. If the wurst (pun) happened, I suppose I could always train to make schnitzels or meat pies!

You and your pies. Auf Wienerschnitzel. -

[bigd987]

Andrew

If you are stilling willing to give it a go after all the feedback, Good and Bad, you can stop by my Wife's Tutoring School in Nong Bua Lamphu Province for a trial run. Very rural area compared to Udon Thani or Khon Kaen, but that is what makes it authentic Isaan.