My Family, In the States, Still Asks Why I Like Chiang Mai?--- 2 Reasons

[mihalis]

Im from Australia and love Thailand, if i could move permanently tomorrow i would...

[Redline]

Given the definition of power distance is: "Power distance refers to the way in which power is distributed and the extent to which the less powerful accept that power is distributed unequally. Put simply, people in some cultures accept a higher degree of unequally distributed power than do people in other cultures".........

the chart says (by virtue of where Thailand falls on the low end of individualism) Thais (and you) willingly subjugate what many people call their inherent personal freedoms and/or rights to a any "superior" who has a position of power regardless of the source or legitimacy of that power.

Interesting.............

Therein lies the problem. I love Thailand, but I following blindly, and accepting being lied to are just not in my genes. Also, I enjoy hard core truth and sarcasm a bit too much, which doesn't go over well here. Heading here from Boston and New York, it was a huge adjustment. I will try to figure out a plan to do 6 months in Thailand, and 6 months in the USA. That will keep my head straight, and help me to appreciate both places.

[smotherb]

You have lost me, better not to think too much,just make the

best of the situation you have.be happy ,dont worry.my motto.

regards worgeordie

One way to view it is to decide for oneself if he or she would rather live in a very individualistic society, and few are more individualistic than the USA, or does one prefer to live in a more collectivist society, such as Thailand.

I definitely prefer to live in a country free of rampant individualism, however this is just due to my own personality quirks.

My brother, for example, loves to be in control at the top, and he would never feel comfortable yielding anything to anyone, especially in business or in the company hierarchy.

This is why it is important, in my view, to choose the country you like, according to whether or not the culture matches one's personality.

Individualism - collectivism

Power Distance and where one is on the continuum.

Additionally, it is important to consider where one is on the Extroversion Introversion scale, because Asians are more comfortable with people who are less extroverted and overtly power hungry, perhaps.

These traits are not particular to Thailand, but are obvious in general throughout Asia, or at least SE Asia and East Asia.

If one welcomes the traits in the culture that one finds in Asia, then this is the place to be.

I could also mention the continuum of culturally based expression of behavioral Masculinity vs Femininity traits, as exhibited by each gender.

It all boils down to knowing what to expect from the culture one is living in, and deciding if that culture is one which provides a feeling of acceptance, peace and liking.

Some are at peace living in the culture of Chiang Mai, and I think that I am definitely one of those.

I think that there are many who come here and fit right in within a week. I have met a few, and they just like it here, very much.

WonderousWand, you really shouldn't use someone else's terms, ideas, and considerations without citing them--Power Distance and Individualism/Collectivism are two of Geert Hendrik Hostede's four initial cultural dimensions. Two others were added later on. The other two original dimensions are Uncertainty Avoidance and Masculinity/Femininity; while the two later additions are Long/Short-term Orientation and Indulgence/Restraint. I think you really ought to look at the other dimensions to form your opinions.

[WonderousWand]

Given the definition of power distance is: "Power distance refers to the way in which power is distributed and the extent to which the less powerful accept that power is distributed unequally. Put simply, people in some cultures accept a higher degree of unequally distributed power than do people in other cultures".........

the chart says (by virtue of where Thailand falls on the low end of individualism) Thais (and you) willingly subjugate what many people call their inherent personal freedoms and/or rights to a any "superior" who has a position of power regardless of the source or legitimacy of that power.

Interesting.............

Therein lies the problem. I love Thailand, but I following blindly, and accepting being lied to are just not in my genes. Also, I enjoy hard core truth and sarcasm a bit too much, which doesn't go over well here. Heading here from Boston and New York, it was a huge adjustment. I will try to figure out a plan to do 6 months in Thailand, and 6 months in the USA. That will keep my head straight, and help me to appreciate both places.

I did not arrive here to change the culture or politics, in any way. I embrace the culture for what it is.

Yes, I still enjoy humor, however I never practice my incisive ironical wit on complete strangers while waiting in line at 7.

Sarcastic humor is never a good idea, in any country, even NYC.

You can make friends with local people who are smarter than you, and then it is easier to exchange jibes without offense.

[bazza40]

When I was a young teenager with my first real girlfriend, I spent a lot of energy trying to figure out if I was in love. I asked my parents 'how do I know if I'm in love?' The said; 'You'll know it when it happens.' That wasn't good enough for me... It made no sense. So I continued looking for a definition of 'love.' In fact, I spent years trying to find out how one can truly know if they are in love. Years...

Then, one day I fell in love. And then I knew.

Same with living in Thailand.

Did you now. Was it with your own posts, or yourself?

[WonderousWand]

You have lost me, better not to think too much,just make the

best of the situation you have.be happy ,dont worry.my motto.

regards worgeordie

One way to view it is to decide for oneself if he or she would rather live in a very individualistic society, and few are more individualistic than the USA, or does one prefer to live in a more collectivist society, such as Thailand.

I definitely prefer to live in a country free of rampant individualism, however this is just due to my own personality quirks.

My brother, for example, loves to be in control at the top, and he would never feel comfortable yielding anything to anyone, especially in business or in the company hierarchy.

This is why it is important, in my view, to choose the country you like, according to whether or not the culture matches one's personality.

Individualism - collectivism

Power Distance and where one is on the continuum.

Additionally, it is important to consider where one is on the Extroversion Introversion scale, because Asians are more comfortable with people who are less extroverted and overtly power hungry, perhaps.

These traits are not particular to Thailand, but are obvious in general throughout Asia, or at least SE Asia and East Asia.

If one welcomes the traits in the culture that one finds in Asia, then this is the place to be.

I could also mention the continuum of culturally based expression of behavioral Masculinity vs Femininity traits, as exhibited by each gender.

It all boils down to knowing what to expect from the culture one is living in, and deciding if that culture is one which provides a feeling of acceptance, peace and liking.

Some are at peace living in the culture of Chiang Mai, and I think that I am definitely one of those.

I think that there are many who come here and fit right in within a week. I have met a few, and they just like it here, very much.

WonderousWand, you really shouldn't use someone else's terms, ideas, and considerations without citing them--Power Distance and Individualism/Collectivism are two of Geert Hendrik Hostede's four initial cultural dimensions. Two others were added later on. The other two original dimensions are Uncertainty Avoidance and Masculinity/Femininity; while the two later additions are Long/Short-term Orientation and Indulgence/Restraint. I think you really ought to look at the other dimensions to form your opinions.

Yes, of course you are correct.

I linked to the site, in the 3rd post above, I think.

However, if that was not clear enough, then now you have made it clearer, tks.

These are very useful terms and concepts, indeed.

[WonderousWand]

You have lost me, better not to think too much,just make the

best of the situation you have.be happy ,dont worry.my motto.

regards worgeordie

One way to view it is to decide for oneself if he or she would rather live in a very individualistic society, and few are more individualistic than the USA, or does one prefer to live in a more collectivist society, such as Thailand.

I definitely prefer to live in a country free of rampant individualism, however this is just due to my own personality quirks.

My brother, for example, loves to be in control at the top, and he would never feel comfortable yielding anything to anyone, especially in business or in the company hierarchy.

This is why it is important, in my view, to choose the country you like, according to whether or not the culture matches one's personality.

Individualism - collectivism

Power Distance and where one is on the continuum.

Additionally, it is important to consider where one is on the Extroversion Introversion scale, because Asians are more comfortable with people who are less extroverted and overtly power hungry, perhaps.

These traits are not particular to Thailand, but are obvious in general throughout Asia, or at least SE Asia and East Asia.

If one welcomes the traits in the culture that one finds in Asia, then this is the place to be.

I could also mention the continuum of culturally based expression of behavioral Masculinity vs Femininity traits, as exhibited by each gender.

It all boils down to knowing what to expect from the culture one is living in, and deciding if that culture is one which provides a feeling of acceptance, peace and liking.

Some are at peace living in the culture of Chiang Mai, and I think that I am definitely one of those.

I think that there are many who come here and fit right in within a week. I have met a few, and they just like it here, very much.

WonderousWand, you really shouldn't use someone else's terms, ideas, and considerations without citing them--Power Distance and Individualism/Collectivism are two of Geert Hendrik Hostede's four initial cultural dimensions. Two others were added later on. The other two original dimensions are Uncertainty Avoidance and Masculinity/Femininity; while the two later additions are Long/Short-term Orientation and Indulgence/Restraint. I think you really ought to look at the other dimensions to form your opinions.

Yes, I had already looked at the indulgence metric thingy, a few months ago.

This metric is interesting because it seems counterintuitive, and different from the results I had expected, while comparing Thailand and the USA.

[Saan]

For the purposes of this discussion, I am not considering any single political side or view. I might have mentioned Trump, for example, as one who seems extroverted and a proponent of individualistic thinking.

I am interested in the cultural and social differences between East Asia, and SE Asia, and Western countries, which make Asia a very good place to live for those who are less extroverted, and more inclined to a collectivist approach to life and problem solving, and child rearing, as well.

I am extroverted and an individualist and I love Chiang Mai. I first came here on a holiday, sometime after my wife died. I arrived here by train after escaping Pattaya and stepping on the platform I knew I was home. Nothing in that regard has changed for me after 6 years.

There has been some adjustment - I learnt to pull my head in every now and then and how to smile. Things which would have stood me in good stead back in Australia.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Saan

[connda]

Get back to us after you publish you thesis. And Americans are individualist. Lmao. Bahhhhhhh. bahhhhh.

<--- Average American

[WonderousWand]

For the purposes of this discussion, I am not considering any single political side or view. I might have mentioned Trump, for example, as one who seems extroverted and a proponent of individualistic thinking.

I am interested in the cultural and social differences between East Asia, and SE Asia, and Western countries, which make Asia a very good place to live for those who are less extroverted, and more inclined to a collectivist approach to life and problem solving, and child rearing, as well.

I am extroverted and an individualist and I love Chiang Mai. I first came here on a holiday, sometime after my wife died. I arrived here by train after escaping Pattaya and stepping on the platform I knew I was home. Nothing in that regard has changed for me after 6 years.

There has been some adjustment - I learnt to pull my head in every now and then and how to smile. Things which would have stood me in good stead back in Australia.

I agree with you that extroverts and introverts, alike, have many good reasons to love living in this city.

The question is whether or not you prefer living in a society which places the good of the group above the wishes of the individual, to some greater extent.

And, whether you have a higher tolerance for living in a more hierarchical society and culture than the one you grew up in, in the West...to some extent.

Edited June 7, 2016 by WonderousWand

[manarak]

Given the definition of power distance is: "Power distance refers to the way in which power is distributed and the extent to which the less powerful accept that power is distributed unequally. Put simply, people in some cultures accept a higher degree of unequally distributed power than do people in other cultures".........

the chart says (by virtue of where Thailand falls on the low end of individualism) Thais (and you) willingly subjugate what many people call their inherent personal freedoms and/or rights to a any "superior" who has a position of power regardless of the source or legitimacy of that power.

Interesting.............

no... very wrong.

personal freedom has nothing to do with power distance.

In fact, you can see in the chart that countries with large power distance also have greater personal freedom, while countries with little power distance are over-regulated corporate or socialist hell.

[WonderousWand]

Given the definition of power distance is: "Power distance refers to the way in which power is distributed and the extent to which the less powerful accept that power is distributed unequally. Put simply, people in some cultures accept a higher degree of unequally distributed power than do people in other cultures".........

the chart says (by virtue of where Thailand falls on the low end of individualism) Thais (and you) willingly subjugate what many people call their inherent personal freedoms and/or rights to a any "superior" who has a position of power regardless of the source or legitimacy of that power.

Interesting.............

no... very wrong.

personal freedom has nothing to do with power distance.

In fact, you can see in the chart that countries with large power distance also have greater personal freedom, while countries with little power distance are over-regulated corporate or socialist hell.

Readers seem to be confusing the meaning of the terminology with the popular meaning.

For example, individualistic culture, in this case, has nothing to do with freedom, or with trapping beaver in the American Northwest, as it once was done.

Power Distance is just the relative position of people in authority, compared to the common citizens, either in a business, academic organization, or in government.

It also has not much to do with personal freedom, necessarily.

But it is about the approachability of power. Americans cannot talk to power, but their level of Power Distance is seen, by themselves, as being low.

[WonderousWand]

You think too mutt.

I'd just show something like this and be done with it.

And if that doesn't work, tell them you're here for the hookers.

But, if for the hookers, then only to talk to them, for research purposes.

[smotherb]

Get back to us after you publish you thesis. And Americans are individualist. Lmao. Bahhhhhhh. bahhhhh.

sheeple.jpg <--- Average American

The following is published from my doctoral dissertation--even the word is more individualistic, Americans write theses for the Master degree. In Hofstede's 1991 studies, the US is most individualistic and Venezuela is most collectivistic. Of course, these results are only from those countries studied at that time.

Table-2 Individualistic and Collectivistic Cultures

___________________________________________________________________

Characteristic Examples

Individualistic Collectivistic

Everyone has a right to privacy Privacy is by group

Law and rights same for all Laws and rights differ by group

High per capita GNP Low per capita GNP

Restrained role of state in economy Dominant role of state in economy

Political power exercised by voters Political power exercised by groups

Press freedom Press controlled by state

Ideologies of individual freedom Ideologies of equality prevail

Self-actualization is goal Harmony and consensus is goal

Identity is based on individual Identity is based on group

Low context communication High context communication

Education increases economic worth Education gains entry to status groups

Task prevails over relationship Relationship prevails over task

Examples of Country Cultures

(from most to least extreme)

United States Venezuela

Australia Colombia

Great Britain Pakistan

Canada Peru

Netherlands Taiwan

New Zealand Thailand

Italy Singapore

Belgium Chile

Denmark Hong Kong

Sweden Portugal

France Mexico

_______________________________________________________________

Excerpts edited and paraphrased from Hofstede (1991; Tables 3.1, 3.3, and 3.4)

Individualism/Collectivism defines the extent to which emphasis is placed on individual

or group goals. The emphasis in individualistic societies is on self-achievement, the

goals of the individual are placed ahead of the goals of the group. In collectivistic

societies, the duties of membership, for the good of the group, take precedence over the

rights and desires of the individual (Hofstede, 1991).

[WonderousWand]

Get back to us after you publish you thesis. And Americans are individualist. Lmao. Bahhhhhhh. bahhhhh.

sheeple.jpg <--- Average American

The following is published from my doctoral dissertation--even the word is more individualistic, Americans write theses for the Master degree. In Hofstede's 1991 studies, the US is most individualistic and Venezuela is most collectivistic. Of course, these results are only from those countries studied at that time.

Table-2 Individualistic and Collectivistic Cultures

___________________________________________________________________

Characteristic Examples

Individualistic Collectivistic

Everyone has a right to privacy Privacy is by group

Law and rights same for all Laws and rights differ by group

High per capita GNP Low per capita GNP

Restrained role of state in economy Dominant role of state in economy

Political power exercised by voters Political power exercised by groups

Press freedom Press controlled by state

Ideologies of individual freedom Ideologies of equality prevail

Self-actualization is goal Harmony and consensus is goal

Identity is based on individual Identity is based on group

Low context communication High context communication

Education increases economic worth Education gains entry to status groups

Task prevails over relationship Relationship prevails over task

Examples of Country Cultures

(from most to least extreme)

United States Venezuela

Australia Colombia

Great Britain Pakistan

Canada Peru

Netherlands Taiwan

New Zealand Thailand

Italy Singapore

Belgium Chile

Denmark Hong Kong

Sweden Portugal

France Mexico

_______________________________________________________________

Excerpts edited and paraphrased from Hofstede (1991; Tables 3.1, 3.3, and 3.4)

Individualism/Collectivism defines the extent to which emphasis is placed on individual

or group goals. The emphasis in individualistic societies is on self-achievement, the

goals of the individual are placed ahead of the goals of the group. In collectivistic

societies, the duties of membership, for the good of the group, take precedence over the

rights and desires of the individual (Hofstede, 1991).

Good Job.

A very Very interesting topic.

[WonderousWand]

Were you able to answer any questions with regard to environmental sustainability issues, ie, are collectivist cultures more or less concerned with promoting environmental sustainability?

[Naam]

oh dear!

[Thailand]

oh dear!

Ditto.

[VillageIdiot]

This is a farrago of nonsense.

Psychobabble of the most ridiculous kind that so many of us were glad to leave behind long ago.

Is it any wonder that Thais laugh at farangs behind their backs?

Robt. Burns had them pegged over 200 years ago:

"​What's a' your jargon o' your schools -

​Your Latin names for horns an' stools?

​If honest nature made you fools,

​What sairs your grammars?

​Ye'd better taen up spades and shools,

​Or knapping-hammers.

​A set o' dull conceited hashes

​Confuse their brains in college classes!

​They gang in stirks, and come out asses,

​Plain truth to speak:

An' syne they think to climb Parnassus

​By dint o' Greek.

[DrTuner]

Depends if the collectivism is from state or family. If from state, they can go <deleted> themselves, from family is brilliant.

[WonderousWand]

This is a farrago of nonsense.

Psychobabble of the most ridiculous kind that so many of us were glad to leave behind long ago.

Is it any wonder that Thais laugh at farangs behind their backs?

Robt. Burns had them pegged over 200 years ago:

"​What's a' your jargon o' your schools -

​Your Latin names for horns an' stools?

​If honest nature made you fools,

​What sairs your grammars?

​Ye'd better taen up spades and shools,

​Or knapping-hammers.

​A set o' dull conceited hashes

​Confuse their brains in college classes!

​They gang in stirks, and come out asses,

​Plain truth to speak:

An' syne they think to climb Parnassus

​By dint o' Greek.

Oh, I heard that before.

If there is no money to be made from it,

Then less perceived value.

For just this reason, poetry seems now placed at the bottom of the heap,

Just below Golf.

If the terminology and jargon does not do a good job describing reality, then replace it. But if it does a good job, then learn it.

What about the term Muffler?

There is a term you need,

If you want to be in the automotive industry, or just repairing cars.

Babble on!

[WonderousWand]

Thais laugh at Farangs behind their backs?

This is pure nonsense.

In actuality, it may be a case of attributing to others behavior or qualities which are present in one's own personality, and not in others.

There is a psycho babble term and terminology to describe this condition.

However, if we used it here, would we be forgiven by the man writing just before me?

Of course, I mean our village idiot.

Edited June 8, 2016 by WonderousWand

[WonderousWand]

The Robert Burns thingy...

I have read that before, just as I have read another written by a schoolboy about experiences with corporal punishment while in class.

Very amusing.

However, times change.

Technology improves.

The world of Robert Burns is dead.

So, if you are not already too old, or overly idiotic, then join the modern world, in which pertinent education translates into increased earnings.

Did you have a classical education in your youth?

Well, try some Physics.

Try an education with course selections in the sciences. And then, after hours, you can read your fine literature as a hobby when you have time.

Some schoolboys actually do deserve a whipping.

I will try to find the corporal punishment quote from some public school classmate, and post it for you. .

Edited June 8, 2016 by WonderousWand

[Chiengmaijoe]

You'll have to stop posting because, as good as it is, I'm trying to get this song out of my mind.

Just when I think I have, up you pop again!!

[WonderousWand]

You'll have to stop posting because, as good as it is, I'm trying to get this song out of my mind.

Just when I think I have, up you pop again!!

Thank you.

I always make time to listen to new Led Zeppelin music.

This one seems to have vague strains of Yes thrown in, but Plant is still the master vocalist of all time, as even the Politburo learned during the Olympics.

Tata...

Edited June 8, 2016 by WonderousWand

[MisterTee]

If your posts are anything to judge by, you sound like you're about to go off the deep end.

[WonderousWand]

This is a farrago of nonsense.

Psychobabble of the most ridiculous kind that so many of us were glad to leave behind long ago.

Is it any wonder that Thais laugh at farangs behind their backs?

Robt. Burns had them pegged over 200 years ago:

"​What's a' your jargon o' your schools -

​Your Latin names for horns an' stools?

​If honest nature made you fools,

​What sairs your grammars?

​Ye'd better taen up spades and shools,

​Or knapping-hammers.

​A set o' dull conceited hashes

​Confuse their brains in college classes!

​They gang in stirks, and come out asses,

​Plain truth to speak:

An' syne they think to climb Parnassus

​By dint o' Greek.

Very sorry, I cannot find the quotation which better matches yours. I know it was poetry. I know it was written, probably at some place like Eton, between 1600 and 1820.

But since I cannot find it, I found another, also on the same topic. The quote I sought was true poetry, and far superior. When I find it, if I find it, I will post it here.

Just two or a few short lines, it is a thing of value.

"How those great big red ridges must smart as they swell!

How the Master does like to flog Algernon well!

How each cut makes the blood come in thin little streaks

From that broad blushing round pair of naked red cheeks"

Compared to fine poetry, the above is trash.

But there is more:

“ Seventeen years of age, with round limbs, and broad shoulders, tall, rosy and fair,

And all over his forehead and temples, a forest of curly red hair;

Good in the playing fields, good on the water, or in it, this lad;

But at sums, or at themes, or at verses, oh! ain't Charlie Collingwood bad!

Six days out of seven, or five at the least, he's sent up to be stripped;

But it's nuts for the lower boys always to see Charlie Collingwood whipped;

For the marks of the birch on his bottom are more than the leaves on a tree,

And a bum that has worn so much birch out as Charlie's is jolly to see.

When his shirt is turned up and his breeches, unbuttoned, hang down to his heels,

From the small of his back to the thick of his thighs is one mass of red weals.

Ted Beauchamp, last year, began keeping a list of his floggings and he

Says they come in a year-and-a-half to a hundred and sixty and three.

And you see how this morning in front of the flogging block silent he stands,

And hitches his waistband up slightly, and feels his backside with his hands.

Then he lifts his blue eyes to the face of the Master, nor shrinks at his frown,

Nor at the sight of the birch, nor at sound of the sentence of judgement, 'Go down.'

Not a word Charlie Collingwood says, not a syllable, piteous or pert;

But goes down with his breeches unbuttoned, and Errington takes up his shirt.

And again we can see his great naked red bottom, round, fleshy, and plump,

And the bystanders look from the Master's red rod to the schoolboy's red rump:

There are weals over weals, there are stripes upon stripes, there are cuts after cuts,

All across Charlie Collingwood's bottom, and isn't the sight of it nuts?

There, that cut on the fleshiest part of the buttocks, high up on the right,

He got that before supper last evening, oh! isn't his bottom a sight?

And that scar that's just healed, don't you see where the birch cut the flesh?

That's a token of Charlie's last flogging, the rod will soon stamp it afresh.

And this morning you saw he could hardly sit down, or [be] quiet in church,

It's a pleasure to see Charlie's bottom, it looks just cut out for the birch.

Now, look out, Master Charlie, it's coming; you won't get off this time, by God!

For your master's in, oh, such a wax! and he's picked you out, oh, such a rod!

Such a jolly good rod, with the buds on, so stout, and so supple and lithe,

You've been flogged till you're hardened to flogging, but won't the first cut make you writhe!

You've been birched till you say you don't care as you used for a birching! Indeed?

Wait a bit, Master Charlie, I'll bet the third cut or the fourth makes you bleed.

Though they say a boy's bottom grows harder with whipping, and time makes it tough,

Yet the sturdiest boy's bottom will wince if the Schoolmaster whips it enough.

Aye, the stoutest posteriors will redden, and flinch from the cuts as they come,

If they're flogged half as hard as the Master will flog Charlie Collingwood's bum.

We shall see a real, jolly good swishing, as good as a fellow could wish;

Here's a stunning good rod, and a jolly big bottom just under it - Swish!

Oh, by Jove, he's drawn blood at the very first cut! in two places by God!

Aye, and Charlie's red bottom grows redder all over with marks of the rod.

And the pain of the cut makes his burning posteriors quiver and heave,

And he's hiding his face - yes, by Jove, and he's wiping his eyes on his sleeve!

Now, give it him well, Sir, lay into him well, till the pain makes him roar!

Flog him, then, till he stops, and then flog his again till he bellows once more!

Ah, Charlie, my boy, you don't mind it, eh, do you? it's nothing to bear;

Though a small boy may cry for a flogging, that's natural, but Charlie don't care.

That's right, Sir, don't spare him! that cut was a stinger, but Charlie don't mind;

All the rods in the kingdom would only be wasted on Charlie's behind.

At each cut, how the red flesh rises, the red weals tingle and swell!

How he blushes! I told you the Master would flog Charlie Collingwood well.

There are long, red ridges and furrows across his great, broad nether cheeks,

And on both his plump, rosy, round buttocks the blood stands in drops and in streaks.

Well hit, Sir! Well caught! how he drew in his bottom, and flinched from the cut!

At each touch of the birch on his bum, how the smart makes it open and shut!

Well stuck, Sir, again, how it made the blood spin! there's a drop on the floor;

Each long, fleshy furrow grows ruddy, and Charlie can bear it no more.

Blood runs from each weal on his bottom, and all Charlie's bottom is wealed,

'Twill be many a day ere the scars of this flogging are thoroughly healed.

Now just under the hollow of Charlie's bare back, where the flanks are aslope,

The rod catches and stings him, and now at the point where the downward ways ope;

Round his flanks, now like serpents, the birchen twigs twining bend round as they bite,

And you see on his naked, white belly, red ridges where all was so white.

Where between his white thighs something hairy the body's division reveals

Falls the next cut, and now Charlie Collingwood's bottom is all over weals.

Now a twig on the rod but has raised a red ridge on his flesh, not a bud

But has drawn from his naked and writhing posteriors a fresh drop of blood.

And the Schoolmaster warms to his work now, as harder and harder he hits,

And picks out the most sensitive places, as though he'd cut Charlie to bits.

'So you'll fidget and whisper in school-time, and make a disturbance in church?

'Can't sit still, Master Charlie, eh, can't you? Well, what do you think of the birch?

'Oh it hurts you so, does it, my boy, to sit down, since I flogged you last night?

'It was that made you fidget all church time? Indeed, you can't help it, please God

'By the help of the birch, Master Charlie, I'll teach you to help it, please God

'If you don't mend your manners in future, it shan't be for want of a rod.

'You're a big boy, no doubt, to be flogged; the more shame for you, at your age

'But as long as you're here, I shall flog you; 'he lays on the cuts in a rage.

'Aye, and if you were older and bigger, you'd come to the flogging block still

'Boys are never too big to be beaten! 'he lays on the birch with a will.

'If a boy's not too old to go wrong, Sir, he can't be too old to be whipped,

'So take that!' and he lays on the rod till the twigs all with crimson are tipped.

There are drops of the boy's blood visible now on each tender young bud

Blood has dropped on his trousers, and Charlie's bare bottom is covered with blood.

But I'd rather be shut up for days, in a hole you would scarce put a dog in,

And brought out once a day to be birched, than have missed Charlie Collingwood's flogging.

How each cut brings the blood to his forehead, and makes him bite half through his lips!

How the birch cuts his bottom right over, and makes the blood spin from his hips!

How his brawny bare haunches, all bloody and wealed with red furrows like ruts!

Shrink quivering with pain at each stroke, that revives all the smart of past cuts!

How the schoolmaster seems to hit harder, the birch to sting more at each blow!

Till at last Charlie Collingwood, writhing with agony, bellows out 'Oh!'

That was all: not a word of petition, a single short cry and no more;

And the younger boys laugh, that the birch should have made such a big fellow roar.

For a moment the Master too pauses, but not for a truce or a parley,

Then the birch falls afresh, on the bloody wealed flesh, with 'Take that, Master Charlie.'

All the small boys are breathless and hushed; but they hear not a syllable come,

They hear only the swish of the birch as it meets Charlie Collingwood's bum.

And the Master's face flushes with anger; he signs to Fred Fane with a nod;

And Freddy reluctantly hands him another stout, supple birch rod.

And again as he flogs Charlie Collingwood's bottom his face seems aflame;

At each cut he reminds him of this thing or that, and rebukes him by name.

Each cut makes the boy's haunches quiver, and scores them all over afresh;

You can trace where each separate birch twig has marked Charlie Collingwood's flesh.

Till the master, tired out with hard work, and quite satiate with flogging for once,

With one last cut, that stings to the quick, bids him rise for an Obstinate Dunce.

From the block Charlie Collingwood rises, red faced, and with tumbled red hair,

And with crimson-hued bottom, and tearful blue eyes, and a look of 'Don't Care'.

And he draws up his breeches, and walks out of school with a crowd of boys dogging

The heels of their hero, all proud to have seen Charlie Collingwood's flogging.

Edited June 8, 2016 by WonderousWand

[Naam]

what a waste of bandwidth

[CMKiwi]

Methinks an oxygen thief is amongst us....

[Mousehound]

Well, the world of Shakespeare is long gone, also but "All the world's a stage.... " still seems to ring true. We are all playing a part, one way or another. The problem with the (Man and) Superman complex is, like Icarus, you can get too close to the sun. Some of us prefer a small part in the play, one where we are content, even if it is a brief walk-on part. I've had my fifteen minutes of fame and I found I was frightened by success. It distanced me from family, true friends and reality. I prefer to be an observer of life in the land I really have come to enjoy - Thailand.