ATM Charges

[RogerP]

Recently moved to Phuket on retirement visa. At present using ATM machines to access cash from Australian account. Being charged 200 Baht for every transaction (10,000 Baht). Who has the cheapest option to do this, or is it more effective to open Thai account, taking present exchange rates. New member; thanks.

[KhunBENQ]

As a newbie you are excused to open this done to death topic again.

But why not.

First and most important:

why do you (can you only) withdraw 10000 Baht per time?

Is your card limited to some amount equiv. to less than 30000 Baht?

Did you try other amounts?

All ATM allow free entry (option).

So you could work down to your cards limit.

Contact your bank in case they limit the card.

ATMs of Krungsri, TMB and ? allow 30000 Baht per transaction with 200 Baht fee.

Bangkok Bank 25000.

Rest of the pack 20000.

Are you intending to stay on a long term basis?

In this case a Thai bank savings account is an absolute must anyway.

[MJCM]

^ +1

If you intend to stay a long time, open a Savings account at a Thai Bank.

Then you can Transfer (online ?) money from your Australian Bank account via SWIFT to your Thai Account.

I transfer 5000 EURO's from my European account on let's say 2pm Thai Time, the money is in my Thai Bank account around 9am the following morning (week days)

Costs of transfer, the Bank in Europe charges me 5.5 Eur, Thai Bank charges me around 500 THB.

[wooloomooloo]

Swift is expensive. Haven't you got F/X companies in your home country, MJCM?

I don't live in LOS [uK with my Thai wife], but regularly transfer funds via my online F/X account to my BB savings account for our semi-annual holidays. I wait until the exchange rate is most favourable, obviously. I pay £1 per transfer and it's the same whether I transfer £100 or £3,000. I also don't get shafted for 500 baht by BB, i.e. what I send is what I receive.

The F/X account also provides me with a very competitive exchange rate, in fact sometimes better than BB's rate.

[MJCM]

I have no idea about F/X companies in my country, but I also couldn't get an account if I wanted (not a registered Citizen anymore, and Banks will not accept me as a Client because of this.)

Swift is indeed Expensive. If I would choose OUR (pay all cost self) it would be 23 Euros, this (Shared) is the cheapest option.

I haven't tried that the receiver pays all, will try that with a test transfer of 1000 Euros and see what it's gonna cost.

[wooloomooloo]

You obviously have a bank account based in Europe from which you transfer funds to LOS, MJCM, then I would imagine it wouldn't be an insurmountable obstacle in applying for an F/X account.

It's all online anyway. Though, my only caveat is once you start sending larger sums then the F/X company may want you to provide evidence of ID.

No problem for me when this occurred as I merely took a photo of my passport on my smartphone and uploaded to their website. Later on when I sent a very large amount of cash they wanted a photo of a utility bill proving my address. It's obviously due to money laundering regulations, but once done they've left me alone and I can send what I want, when I want with no further issues.

I'm always on the lookout for cheaper options, but my current provider is doing okay for now.

Good luck.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Seriously, after looking at all the options, the cheapest way is to pay 200 baht and withdraw 20k-30k each time.

Everything else is just a lot of hassle including the peace of mind my money being stored and protected against fraud in a Canadian bank.

[Scott]

Inflammatory post removed.

[wooloomooloo]

Seriously, after looking at all the options, the cheapest way is to pay 200 baht and withdraw 20k-30k each time.

If you can afford £4 a pop then good luck to you.

[Lamkyong]

Inflammatory post removed.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The OP needs to sit down and do some math calculations to find out the best option to take, because everyone's situations can be different.

With the Thai ATM route, the maximum withdrawal amount as dictated by the Thai ATMs is going to be 30,000b at Krungsri, TMB and CIMB. All the others are going to have lower per withdrawal limits, but all charge the same 200b fee on foreign cards. So it makes sense to use the 30,000b ones.

But then, people's home country bank accounts also have daily ATM withdrawal limits, which often can be less than the equivalent of 30,000 baht. So it depends on what limits apply to the card the OP plans to use. And then, since he mentioned being from Australia, AFAIK, most Australian banks also charge foreign currency fees when their cards are used abroad, which can be 3% or more. And most don't reimburse Thai ATM fees. But if the OP has any home country card that doesn't charge FCF and does reimburse other banks fees, he obviously should use those.

So, it's those kinds of factors that he needs to use to figure out what his best option for ATM withdrawals is going to be, and what kind of net exchange rate he's going to get in the end, after the Thai bank ATM fee and his home country bank fees are factored in, along with his own card's daily withdrawal limit. (A 200 baht Thai ATM fee on a 15,000b withdrawal obviously is a lot more costly (as a %) than the same 200 baht fee on a 30,000 baht withdrawal.

Then, with his net ATM withdrawal exchange rate in hand, he can similarly calculate what his best exchange rate is going to be for doing a Swift transfer from his Australia bank to his Thai bank. Once again, the home country bank is going to charge a sending fee, there may well be an intermediary bank fee, and then the receiving Thai bank is typically going to charge a commission set a 0.25% of the received funds, minimum 200 baht and maximum 500 baht. If the OP has multiple Australia bank accounts, it would pay to check the Swift fees at each, since they can vary considerably from bank to bank.

Overall, though, if the OP has to rely on Australia banks that charge him FCF on his home country card foreign ATM withdrawals and don't reimburse the Thai banks' 200 baht per ATM withdrawal fee, it's probably going to be more cost effect to do occasional, larger amount Swift transfers. Larger is better because, typically, the home country banks charge a flat sending fee for Swift transfers, not a percentage amount. So the more you send per transaction, the lower the relative sending fee amount is going to be as a percentage of funds sent.

The OP might also check Citibank if he happens to have a Citibank account in Australia. I can't remember for sure, and I'm not Australian, but I think I might recall a member here reporting that Citibank Australia didn't charge fees, or as much fees, when their card is used for withdrawals at Thai Citibank branches in Bangkok. But I can't remember for certain about that, and it wouldn't matter unless the OP happens to have a Citibank Australia account and plans on staying in BKK, which is the only city in Thailand where Citibank has ATMs at present.

[DogNo1]

Personally, I take over-the-counter cash advances on my credit card at Bangkok Bank. It costs me zero fees although my USA bank limits me to a dollar amount that is around 20,000 baht. I do an online payment from my checking account to my in-house credit card immediately. If I am caught by a weekend before the credit card payment is posted, I have to pay 2-3 days interest which is never more than $1.00. It's the cheapest way to get money from your foreign bank account. I have to be careful to wait a day before I do another cash advance or it will be declined due to the time difference. Of course the method won't be convenient for people who need to withdraw larger amounts.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Cash advances on foreign credit cards are probably not a good deal for MOST people.

Reason being, most foreign banks and their credit card accounts charge a flat or % fee just for making the advance, and sometimes charge both together, even if you pay it off right away. And then, there's accrued interest for every day you wait to pay the balance, since there's usually no grace period for cash advances. A lot of U.S. cards, for example, charge $3-$5 per cash advance plus 3% or higher of the transaction amount.

A very few U.S. credit cards are no fee, no charge for cash advances. I have some of those. But then, you still have to find a Thai bank willing to do over the counter cash advances -- something that can be problematic here.

[mrjohn]

Why use an ATM at all?

The best way I’ve found is to do an over-the-counter debit card withdrawal. There is no fee at this end and the exchange rate is the international daily midrate.This can be done in most banks but you do need your passport with you.

(Of course, right-thinking "aliens" carry their passports with them at all times!)

If you are in tourist places like Phuket then this can also be done (usually very quickly) at any of the exchange booths (open all hours) that are all over the island.

[MJCM]

Cash advances on foreign credit cards are probably not a good deal for MOST people.

Reason being, most foreign banks and their credit card accounts charge a flat or % fee just for making the advance, and sometimes charge both together, even if you pay it off right away. And then, there's accrued interest for every day you wait to pay the balance, since there's usually no grace period for cash advances. A lot of U.S. cards, for example, charge $3-$5 per cash advance plus 3% or higher of the transaction amount.

A very few U.S. credit cards are no fee, no charge for cash advances. I have some of those. But then, you still have to find a Thai bank willing to do over the counter cash advances -- something that can be problematic here.

+1.

I just looked at my Banks webpage and they say that I have to pay an excess of 4% over the total amount, and is limited to 3000 Euros a day. So costs would be (suppose 3000 Euro's) 3000 / 100 = 30 x 4 = 120 Euros x 39 THB = 4680 THB (for my Bank only) and who knows what the Thai Bank is going to charge.

In addition to that I also get a worse exchange rate.

No Thanks, SWIFT (Shared) Transfer it is for me with just under 1000 THB for a 5000 EURO transfer.

[RogerP]

Thanks for all the interesting replies, even the blocked ones, (find something better to amuse yourself). Plenty of info for me to work on.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Why use an ATM at all?

The best way I’ve found is to do an over-the-counter debit card withdrawal. There is no fee at this end and the exchange rate is the international daily midrate.This can be done in most banks but you do need your passport with you.

(Of course, right-thinking "aliens" carry their passports with them at all times!)

If you are in tourist places like Phuket then this can also be done (usually very quickly) at any of the exchange booths (open all hours) that are all over the island.

Counter withdrawals using a foreign debit card can be a very good deal -- no Thai bank ATM fee is involved, and depending on one's home country bank, usually no transaction fee charged by them either, and no interest charged since it's a withdrawal from one's checking account.

However, particularly with foreign debit cards, a lot of Thai bank staff seem to have difficulty knowing how to properly execute the transaction on their terminals so that it goes thru on the other end. I and others have had a lot of grief and difficulty in BKK finding Thai banks that will correctly/successfully handle this type of transaction.

And you do have to carry your original passport with you for them to photocopy when they do the transaction. But if you can find a bank branch or currency exchange booth that will do them, debit card counter withdrawals can be a fee-free or almost fee-free transaction (although any foreign currency fee charged by one's home country bank is still going to apply.)

[wooloomooloo]

And you do have to carry your original passport with you for them to photocopy when they do the transaction. But if you can find a bank branch or currency exchange booth that will do them, debit card counter withdrawals can be a fee-free or almost fee-free transaction (although any foreign currency fee charged by one's home country bank is still going to apply.)

Agreed, it can be a time-consuming exercise. I did a withdrawal at SCB in Siam Paragon a few years ago on my Halifax Clarity credit card, and whilst it was relatively painless, I was in there for about twenty minutes.

I really wouldn't want to be doing that too often. Which I don't anymore, anyway.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just to be clear, credit card cash advances are a very different animal from debit card cash advances for expats or tourists in Thailand.

From various reports here, Thai banks seem more willing and/or able to do credit card cash advances. But, for most expats, their credit cards are going to have hefty fees on foreign cash advances (cash advance fees, foreign currency fees, interest) that probably exceed those associated with straight Thai ATM withdrawals.

For debit card cash advances, there should be little or no fees on either end, except for the possibility of a foreign currency conversion fee charged by the home country bank. But as I noted above, Thai banks and bank staff often will either say they can't/won't do a debit card cash advance, or they try and fail due to not keying in the transaction properly on their terminals. But if you can find a branch that successfully handles debit card cash advances, it can be a good deal.

BTW, a lot of Thai bank staff even in tourist areas often speak little or no English. However, from what I've been able to gather, apparently the English term "cash advance" is one understood by Thai bank staff for what it is. When I've asked how Thais say "cash advance," the answer that comes back is, "cash advance."

[kidizen]

Citibank ATMs do not charge the 200 Baht ATM fee. I've been using it in recent months. However, apparently this is only for non-US issued cards though. I think there are only 3 locations in Bangkok and none outside of Bangkok, not much use to OP in Phuket but worth mentioning for the record.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re Citibank Thai ATMs, yes, none outside Bangkok in Thailand, AFAIK.

As for their not charging ATM fees, I'm assuming you mean when you use a Citibank ATM card from a different country in a Citibank Thai ATM.

I know for certain that Citibank U.S.-issued cards do get charged the Thai bank ATM fee by Citibank Thai ATMs, as well as a foreign currency conversion fee for most of their regular accounts (except for Citi Gold and such). Citibank Thai also charges the ATM fee against ATM withdrawals using cards from other U.S. banks other than Citibank.

As for using Citibank cards from other countries besides the U.S. in Citibank Thai ATMs, I'm not sure the no-fees notion applies to ALL other Citibank issued cards from other countries besides the U.S. But I believe it does apply to at least some of their cards issued in other countries.

The question for the OP is, is Citibank Australia one of those card countries that get exempted from Citibank ATM fees here in Thailand.

[BB24]

The OP needs to sit down and do some math calculations to find out the best option to take, because everyone's situations can be different.

With the Thai ATM route, the maximum withdrawal amount as dictated by the Thai ATMs is going to be 30,000b at Krungsri, TMB and CIMB. All the others are going to have lower per withdrawal limits, but all charge the same 200b fee on foreign cards. So it makes sense to use the 30,000b ones.

But then, people's home country bank accounts also have daily ATM withdrawal limits, which often can be less than the equivalent of 30,000 baht. So it depends on what limits apply to the card the OP plans to use. And then, since he mentioned being from Australia, AFAIK, most Australian banks also charge foreign currency fees when their cards are used abroad, which can be 3% or more. And most don't reimburse Thai ATM fees. But if the OP has any home country card that doesn't charge FCF and does reimburse other banks fees, he obviously should use those.

So, it's those kinds of factors that he needs to use to figure out what his best option for ATM withdrawals is going to be, and what kind of net exchange rate he's going to get in the end, after the Thai bank ATM fee and his home country bank fees are factored in, along with his own card's daily withdrawal limit. (A 200 baht Thai ATM fee on a 15,000b withdrawal obviously is a lot more costly (as a %) than the same 200 baht fee on a 30,000 baht withdrawal.

Then, with his net ATM withdrawal exchange rate in hand, he can similarly calculate what his best exchange rate is going to be for doing a Swift transfer from his Australia bank to his Thai bank. Once again, the home country bank is going to charge a sending fee, there may well be an intermediary bank fee, and then the receiving Thai bank is typically going to charge a commission set a 0.25% of the received funds, minimum 200 baht and maximum 500 baht. If the OP has multiple Australia bank accounts, it would pay to check the Swift fees at each, since they can vary considerably from bank to bank.

Overall, though, if the OP has to rely on Australia banks that charge him FCF on his home country card foreign ATM withdrawals and don't reimburse the Thai banks' 200 baht per ATM withdrawal fee, it's probably going to be more cost effect to do occasional, larger amount Swift transfers. Larger is better because, typically, the home country banks charge a flat sending fee for Swift transfers, not a percentage amount. So the more you send per transaction, the lower the relative sending fee amount is going to be as a percentage of funds sent.

The OP might also check Citibank if he happens to have a Citibank account in Australia. I can't remember for sure, and I'm not Australian, but I think I might recall a member here reporting that Citibank Australia didn't charge fees, or as much fees, when their card is used for withdrawals at Thai Citibank branches in Bangkok. But I can't remember for certain about that, and it wouldn't matter unless the OP happens to have a Citibank Australia account and plans on staying in BKK, which is the only city in Thailand where Citibank has ATMs at present.

That may have been me as I wrote a story about this a while ago - and yes it is true. I went through all the banks in Aus and Citibank provided the best deal - free TT transfers to any bank in Thailand via swift and free withdrawals at any Citibank ATM (but only have one branch in BKK) - all the other Aus banks charged fees (some hidden - I tried a few and found out the hard way).

Then in Thailand I analysed all the banks and tried a few, and Bangkok Bank provided the best exchange rate and exchange rate conversion fee (max 300baht). And BB has a lot of ATMs and withdrawing from BB using their ATMs is free - except if in another Region (30baht). So far this has proven to be the best arrangement - both the cheapest and the safest. If you are only doing 10,000 baht at a time ($380AUS) it is not worth it. I usually transfer 200,000baht+ each time.

But there there are two issues with this - timing and funds investment. TIMING - when I 'press send' in Aus, it takes about anything from 1 to 3 days to arrive in the BB account and the exchange rates move every day. Usually about the same but sometimes a big change (+/-2cents) - so far one win (up) and 1 loss - all the rest were about the same. FUNDS - Citibank pay no interest so I move funds from my investment arrangement (Super/other Bank) into Citibank and then I transfer next day to BB (in Aus transfers between banks/funds are free).

There is also another option which I am still considering. Citibank Thailand (only BKK) will setup an international transfer account (min 100,000 baht) and they will accept Aus$ transfer from Citibank Aus for no fee. You can then pick exactly what time and rate to convert the Aus$ in Thai account into a Thai baht Citibank account - then you can transfer to BB account for no fee. Still thinking on that - min 100,000 baht.

Tried my local BB bank about getting an 'international transfer' account - they didnt understand what I was talking about and even the 'boss' sounded confused - so I gracefully thanked them and left before anyone lost face.

I also started looking into currency exchange specialists and whilst I maybe saving a few baht, it looked problemmatic and not as easy/smooth as doing an inter-bank TT swift transfer - and some of them looked very 'iffy'.

In summary: I would recommend getting a standard BB bank account (passport ID residency etc.) and open a Citibank account in Aus, and following the proceedure as above. Paying 200baht ($7.50) to withdraw 10,000 baht ($380) is not the way to go. Everything cheap here and you dont notice it as much at first - but after a while you will feel it. The Thai banking system is basically corrupt and full of consumer rip offs (so is all Thai businesses actually - no consumer laws here). Be careful and get advice - if you have Thai GF/wife who speaks English/Thaiglish, then she can help a lot. If you dont have - and you do get - make sure you get one that speaks English (a little) - and avoid all bar and ex-bar girls but as they say - up2u

PS - also get a another Thai bank account with another big bank and put some 'reserve' money in there. I also had a SCB account and it got 'locked' when I tried to use it to take out some cash at a 7/11 ATM in a village while on holiday. SCB in the nearest big town couldnt help - go back to main branch (in another Region). Luckily had the BB account to use for the next 2 weeks.

PPS - never use card at 7/11 or in any 'local/small' shop - take out cash at the branches ATMs (or in Makro/Tesco etc) - use cash everywhere you can - never use card if you do not have to. Money gone here - Thai bank says bad luck (mai pen rai) - no recourse.

AND NEVER use online banking on public or hotel or cafe wifi here - even if 'secured' by password etc - it aint secure !!!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks for that response. I agree with a lot of what you said... But you're off on a couple of details.

1. There are several Citibank Thai ATM locations in Bangkok, including Asoke-Sukhumvit, CentralWorld, Silom.

2. Bangkok Bank's fee for handling incoming international fund xfers is 0.25% of the amount, minimum 200 and maximum 500 baht. That's also the same fee at most other Thai banks.

The exchange rates offered by the different Thai commercial banks are always fluctuating. No one bank ever, always has the best rates. When I've checked in the past, BKK Bank seems to be often in the middle of the pack. But rate isn't the only factor. Convenience, location, where you may have existing Thai accounts all can come into the picture.

[wooloomooloo]

I did a withdrawal at SCB in Siam Paragon a few years ago on my Halifax Clarity credit card ...

But, for most expats, their credit cards are going to have hefty fees on foreign cash advances (cash advance fees, foreign currency fees, interest) that probably exceed those associated with straight Thai ATM withdrawals.

Good point. The reason I specifically mentioned Halifax Clarity credit card [uK obviously] is that there are no fees, whatsoever. Though, negligible interest is charged on cash withdrawals but even that can be paid off through internet banking as soon as it shows up on the holders account and can be settled within a minute via Faster Payments.

Also, the Clarity credit card is MasterCard based so very competitive exchange rates and definitely worth using for big ticket purchases and the protection provided under the UK Consumer Credit Act.

I regularly use my Clarity card in Europe and if I withdraw 500 Euros, for example, then by the end of the month the interest will be a nonsense amount of £1 odd but I just can't be bothered logging in to save the price of half a pint of beer.

It's definitely worth investigating the best deals out there and Halifax Clarity is the best credit card in the UK for foreign travel by a country mile. By the way, I don't get charged ATM fees in Europe. But I would incur the usual 180-200 baht if used in a Thai ATM, but I never do anyway so not an issue.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Only issue is... the OP appears to be Australian...

[gk10002000]

Old issue but was a good read up.  I like the over the counter debit card idea, if the banks will do it correctly and quickly.  Failing that, the Schwab no ATM fee seems pretty reasonable.  Once or twice a year I would be visiting home (the USA).  I would take the $10,000 USD in cash from the USA back to Thailand.  That is good for quite a few months.  Then use the Schwab ATM card as needed.  In one month, take 30,000 baht @ 220 baht fee at the moment. That is not unreasonable to me. Paying for convenience and not having to transfer monies or use an intermediary such as Bangkok Bank.  My social security goes into my financial institution in the USA.  Then I use my Schwab ATM card  in Thailand.  Seems easy, unless I am missing something.