Bringing Thaksin To Account

[lukamar]

Is it as simple as the military and investigations unit just still building a case?

Yes, they have to make sure that it doesn't come back and bite them in the butt.

[sriracha john]

Thailand investigates drugs war

The military-backed government in Thailand is probing the anti-drugs campaign launched by the ousted Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra.

They may Huff and Puff and point some fingers but they certainly won't blow that house down as there are too many of them in there along with the one they are pointing the finger at.

for example??? or such as???

[sriracha john]

Thaksin's legacy.... the murdering of 9 year-old boys...

Drug-war victims' kin raise cases

Prompted by the government's promise to reopen cases of drug-related murders during the anti-narcotics campaigns of the Thaksin government, families of the victims have contacted authorities to seek justice.

One of the many high-profile cases was the accidental shooting in April 2005 of a nine-year-old boy in a sting operation by Bang Chan police in Bangkok.

Jakkraphan Srisa-ard was hit in the head by a stray bullet from an officer's gun while the arresting team was trying to apprehend his parents, Sathaporn and Phornwipha, who were drug dealers.

Relatives of the Srisa-ard family will today meet with Justice Minister Charnchai Likhitjittha and permanent secretary Jaral Phakdeethanakul to discuss reopening the case.

Each victim, if deemed qualified, is entitled to Bt50,000 compensation from the Rights and Liberties Protection Department.

Charnchai said yesterday that the Department of Special Investigation would consider taking over the cases if initial evidence found that policemen or state officials had some part in the drug-related murders.

Sombat Cha-aim, a Lop Buri native, said police in Tha Luang district, had made little progress in seeking a group of men who twice sprayed her house with automatic fire four years ago when she and her husband Somphong were charged with drug dealing.

The woman said she and her husband were later acquitted by the Lop Buri court.

- The Nation

[lukamar]

Thailand investigates drugs war

The military-backed government in Thailand is probing the anti-drugs campaign launched by the ousted Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra.

They may Huff and Puff and point some fingers but they certainly won't blow that house down as there are too many of them in there along with the one they are pointing the finger at.

for example??? or such as???

Sorry John.... Sefice it to say some of us have contacts in Thailand that you do not have because you would not have asked the question in the first place, if you did.

[JacknDanny]

Thailand investigates drugs war

The military-backed government in Thailand is probing the anti-drugs campaign launched by the ousted Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra.

They may Huff and Puff and point some fingers but they certainly won't blow that house down as there are too many of them in there along with the one they are pointing the finger at.

for example??? or such as???

Sorry John.... Sefice it to say some of us have contacts in Thailand that you do not have because you would not have asked the question in the first place, if you did.

Bo##cks!!!!!

You are reading too many fairy stories.!!

They WILL get the evidence, in fact they already have evidence on certain matters, you just wait and see. I am not getting into pissing contests here, but I also know for sure that this is true

[Grover]

Sorry John.... Sefice it to say some of us have contacts in Thailand that you do not have because you would not have asked the question in the first place, if you did.

Are you talking about the type of contacts that get paid to spread pro-Thaksin propoganda ? Because there is no shortage of those people. The recent pro-TRT pseudo-media phenomonen just before the coup springs to mind.

They may Huff and Puff and point some fingers but they certainly won't blow that house down as there are too many of them in there along with the one they are pointing the finger at.

The TRT house fell down despite 'too many of them along with the one they are pointing the finger at'. Things have a way of sorting themselves out, even if it takes a long time.

[lukamar]

Sorry John.... Sefice it to say some of us have contacts in Thailand that you do not have because you would not have asked the question in the first place, if you did.

Are you talking about the type of contacts that get paid to spread pro-Thaksin propoganda ? Because there is no shortage of those people. The recent pro-TRT pseudo-media phenomonen just before the coup springs to mind.

They may Huff and Puff and point some fingers but they certainly won't blow that house down as there are too many of them in there along with the one they are pointing the finger at.

The TRT house fell down despite 'too many of them along with the one they are pointing the finger at'. Things have a way of sorting themselves out, even if it takes a long time.

You guys are too funny... You are so anti TRT that you couldn't even tell I was talking about the military.. So you don't have contacts there either I see...LOL

[Plus]

Why don't you just tell us how the general in the junta were implicated in the drug war instead of claiming some special "sources" no one else has access to?

The whole war was conducted by the police, not the army.

The secret units that did lots of killings might be part of the army, but the generals can always disown them, and I doubt that anybody would bring them up as a defence strategy anyway.

[Grover]

You guys are too funny... You are so anti TRT that you couldn't even tell I was talking about the military.. So you don't have contacts there either I see...LOL

Yeh I guess I got that one a bit mixed up. No matter. I'll leave it for now.

Your enigmatic statements about 'contacts' are rather funny. I don't think anyone is taking you seriously until you give proof.

IMO, I find the emerging reports concerning the killings utterly disgusting.

Edited November 17, 2006 by Grover

[Tony Clifton]

Don't forget the hiring of ex-cons by police, even wiping out their criminal records as seen at the World Trade Plaza. Surely was a common practice to hire scumbags like "the man in black" to carry out murders for the police.

Edited November 17, 2006 by Tony Clifton

[younghusband]

Thailand investigates drugs war

The military-backed government in Thailand is probing the anti-drugs campaign launched by the ousted Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra.

They may Huff and Puff and point some fingers but they certainly won't blow that house down as there are too many of them in there along with the one they are pointing the finger at.

for example??? or such as???

Sorry John.... Sefice it to say some of us have contacts in Thailand that you do not have because you would not have asked the question in the first place, if you did.

Bo##cks!!!!!

You are reading too many fairy stories.!!

They WILL get the evidence, in fact they already have evidence on certain matters, you just wait and see. I am not getting into pissing contests here, but I also know for sure that this is true

Lukamar is correct as any reasonably well informed Thai observer could tell you.Further comment is not possible given current forum guidelines.

[Plus]

No proof then, only excuses.

It's a big secret no one can ever talk about, and we are all morons who know nothing. Or maybe it just doesn't exist.

[Grover]

Lukamar is correct as any reasonably well informed Thai observer could tell you.Further comment is not possible given current forum guidelines.

It's a legless claim as far as I'm concerned. Anyone can make a story like this then sit back with a smug look on their face, and a smile, knowing they are protected by the forum guidelines.

[sriracha john]

A popular breakfast cereral used to offer a special decoder ring for communicating with these special sources.

Shame I missed out on that.

[younghusband]

No proof then, only excuses.

It's a big secret no one can ever talk about, and we are all morons who know nothing. Or maybe it just doesn't exist.

Actually I would not regard you as a moron who knows nothing, somewhat deluded perhaps given your belief in an archaic Hindu influenced "know your place" class structure.But I'm all for freedom of expression.

On the drug killings look for statements made at the time which are a matter of record.It's quite surprising who, while weeping crocodile tears for innocent victims, stated that most of the deaths were caused by internecine battles between drug barons and traffickers (though it was obvious at the time police under orders from above had slaughtered the vast majority).So get googling and you can answer your own question.

Actually if this enquiry gets goiing it will become quite clear who else was involved or gave implicit approval.That's why I'm predicting it will, if you'll forgive the expression, die a death.

[marshbags]

Quote from S.J,s post no. 33:-

Thaksin's legacy.... the murdering of 9 year-old boys...

Drug-war victims' kin raise cases

Prompted by the government's promise to reopen cases of drug-related murders during the anti-narcotics campaigns of the Thaksin government, families of the victims have contacted authorities to seek justice.

One of the many high-profile cases was the accidental shooting in April 2005 of a nine-year-old boy in a sting operation by Bang Chan police in Bangkok.

Jakkraphan Srisa-ard was hit in the head by a stray bullet from an officer's gun while the arresting team was trying to apprehend his parents, Sathaporn and Phornwipha, who were drug dealers.

Relatives of the Srisa-ard family will today meet with Justice Minister Charnchai Likhitjittha and permanent secretary Jaral Phakdeethanakul to discuss reopening the case.

Unquote:-

From what i recall of this incident, which was one of many simliar situations invloving murder as against apprehension and arrest, which was without question an easy option.

Accidental shooting................................... A load of bollows

A stray bullet from an officers gun............. From what i recall of this particular case, they where shot in the back when there pick up was blasted / fired on by several people ??????????

They would also have been 100% aware that the young child was with them while carrying out this assassination.

They could easily have blown the tyres out to stop them moving had they wanted to or some other method and had possessed the desire to do so.

In any case they shouldn,t have sprayed them indiscriminately knowing full well the child was with them unless he was considered meaningless and expendable also.

The truth is more likely that they had another agenda, needed to silence the parents as a priority and didn,t give a f*** about the families safe apprehension.

THEY HAD NO INTENTION WHATEVER OF ARRESTING THEM AND DELIBERATELY RIDDLED THEM WITH BULLETS.

From my observations at the time on learning of this horrific incident which was well reported at the time.

The referrence to the pathetic compensation is as sickening as the criminal intent these murderers

carried out while the CEO Thaksin and his cohorts didn,t have, and couldn,t have, given a ###### about.

May they all be cursed into damnation for there actions in their next life should they have one while being brought to justice and acccount in this.

In my humble opinion.

They are all evil B******S and no mistake who carried out these vile crimes.

marshbags

Edited November 17, 2006 by marshbags

[hammered]

I wonder if any charges will be brought over the case that got Yuth dooyen his nickname? Somehow I think the perceived needs of national reconcilliation will come before justice even though this must be a slam dunk case if anyone wants go after previous ministers of the most obnoxious kind.

[sriracha john]

No proof then, only excuses.

It's a big secret no one can ever talk about, and we are all morons who know nothing. Or maybe it just doesn't exist.

On the drug killings look for statements made at the time which are a matter of record.It's quite surprising who, while weeping crocodile tears for innocent victims, stated that most of the deaths were caused by internecine battles between drug barons and traffickers (though it was obvious at the time police under orders from above had slaughtered the vast majority).So get googling and you can answer your own question.

actually it's on the shoulders of those making claims and assigning blame of this sort and that sort to do the googling... I've provided countless news releases assigning that blame to Thaksin. If he's not alone as claimed by others, then by all means, happy googling to them. Without something to back up their claims... it's nothing more self-aggrandizing bravado and carries the same weight as the aforementioned breakfast cereral toy.

Edited November 17, 2006 by sriracha john

[younghusband]

No proof then, only excuses.

It's a big secret no one can ever talk about, and we are all morons who know nothing. Or maybe it just doesn't exist.

On the drug killings look for statements made at the time which are a matter of record.It's quite surprising who, while weeping crocodile tears for innocent victims, stated that most of the deaths were caused by internecine battles between drug barons and traffickers (though it was obvious at the time police under orders from above had slaughtered the vast majority).So get googling and you can answer your own question.

actually it's on the shoulders of those making claims and assigning blame of this sort and that sort to do the googling... I've provided countless news releases assigning that blame to Thaksin. If he's not alone as claimed by others, then by all means, happy googling to them. Without something to back up their claims... it's nothing more self-aggrandizing bravado and carries the same weight as the aforementioned breakfast cereral toy.

Do I have to spell it out further? I think that most will have caught my drift but see below.

You have also misunderstood my original point.I have no idea whose original concept the drug killing was.Quite possibly it was Thaksin's and my condemnation has been consistent.The problem for an enquiry however was not just the initiation of the policy but the widespread support for the campaign at all levels - repeat at all levels, low and high (geddit?).Some certainly expressed reservations at the time at the innocents caught up but made no real disagreement of the muderous campaign as a whole and the lie that most of the deaths arose in internal drug traffickers squabbles.

But let's wait and see.If the enquiry is pursued vigorously and in a transparent manner, then you are right and I am wrong.If the whole subject is quietly buried, then I am right and you are wrong.Anyone prepared to take bets?

[Plus]

Yes, 95% of Thais approved of drug war. That doesn't implicate them legally. The question left unanswered was about presently ruling generals and the present government being involved.

We are not talking about legitimacy of the war itself, we are talking about particular cases of innocent people being blacklisted and killed. If army had no hand in it, there's no case against Surayud or any other general.

Police was in charge, as far as I remember, not the army.

And please spare us finger pointing in search of person who is ultimately responsible. You'll end up with God or high sugar content in Coca-Cola. For practical purposes the buck stops with Thaksin, rather conveniently, I admit.

[younghusband]

Yes, 95% of Thais approved of drug war. That doesn't implicate them legally. The question left unanswered was about presently ruling generals and the present government being involved.

We are not talking about legitimacy of the war itself, we are talking about particular cases of innocent people being blacklisted and killed. If army had no hand in it, there's no case against Surayud or any other general.

Police was in charge, as far as I remember, not the army.

And please spare us finger pointing in search of person who is ultimately responsible. You'll end up with God or high sugar content in Coca-Cola. For practical purposes the buck stops with Thaksin, rather conveniently, I admit.

I would agree that Thaksin is ultimately responsible, and the Thai police the implementing agency.I further agree that Surayud was in no way involved.However since the killings were supported by the elite - with statements on record to that effect, it makes an enquiry with glaring international exposure somewhat problematic.It just won't wash to focus on the innocents inadvertently named in the blacklist.The assasination blacklist itself is the crime, as any human rights lawyer would demonstrate.

[Tony Clifton]

No proof then, only excuses.

It's a big secret no one can ever talk about, and we are all morons who know nothing. Or maybe it just doesn't exist.

On the drug killings look for statements made at the time which are a matter of record.It's quite surprising who, while weeping crocodile tears for innocent victims, stated that most of the deaths were caused by internecine battles between drug barons and traffickers (though it was obvious at the time police under orders from above had slaughtered the vast majority).So get googling and you can answer your own question.

actually it's on the shoulders of those making claims and assigning blame of this sort and that sort to do the googling... I've provided countless news releases assigning that blame to Thaksin. If he's not alone as claimed by others, then by all means, happy googling to them. Without something to back up their claims... it's nothing more self-aggrandizing bravado and carries the same weight as the aforementioned breakfast cereral toy.

Do I have to spell it out further? I think that most will have caught my drift but see below.

You have also misunderstood my original point.I have no idea whose original concept the drug killing was.Quite possibly it was Thaksin's and my condemnation has been consistent.The problem for an enquiry however was not just the initiation of the policy but the widespread support for the campaign at all levels - repeat at all levels, low and high (geddit?).Some certainly expressed reservations at the time at the innocents caught up but made no real disagreement of the muderous campaign as a whole and the lie that most of the deaths arose in internal drug traffickers squabbles.

But let's wait and see.If the enquiry is pursued vigorously and in a transparent manner, then you are right and I am wrong.If the whole subject is quietly buried, then I am right and you are wrong.Anyone prepared to take bets?

Replace "support" with "FEAR" at all levels, low and high. How many simply shut up in order not to "meet the squads themselves"? Far more than there were supporters I bet.

[Plus]

People would say that they just wanted the drug problem to be dealt with and they would argue that they didn't support the actual killings.

What it will come down to is: "Did you support the blacklisting of suspects and demands for numbers of killed drug dealers?" 90% would say they had no idea how the lists were compiled and what was supposed to happen to people on the lists.

Unless they can bring exact quotes like that famous monk saying that lives of drug dealers are lower than that of dogs, you don't have the case.

Or look at it from another angle - if the generals knew they were implicated themselves, no review/inquiry would have been started at all.

I doubt anything will come out of it in the end, but I'd give them the chance. If they can change the public perception that the drug war was ok, it will be far better in the long run than putting a few guys in jail.

[marshbags]

This is a part of an article is in todays Bangkok Post.

JUSTICE / WAR ON DRUGS

Probe of 9-year-old's death could be revived

BHANRAVEE TANSUBHAPOL

The Justice Ministry is ready to reopen investigations into the death of a nine-year-old boy who was allegedly killed by undercover policemen during the Thaksin government's 2003 war on drugs. Justice Minister Charnchai Likhitjitta said the ministry was ready to review the case if it receives new and important evidence that would allow the case to be reopened.

On Feb 23, 2003, Chakkraphand Srisa-ard, was shot dead by undercover policemen from Bang Chan district after they had posed as buyers of drugs from his father, Sathaporn.

As police moved in to arrest Sathaporn, his wife, Pornwipa Kerdrung, sped away in a car, at which point the vehicle came under a hail of gunfire with one bullet hitting the boy who was sitting in the back seat.

Please go to the following url for the full version.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/17Nov2006_news15.php

I may be a misleading you on one point in my last post on this subject regarding the mode of transport.

According to this article the mode of transport was a car. ???????????

In referrence to available evidence, I Quote Khunying Porntip :-

Acting director of the Central Institute of Forensic Science Porntip Rojanasunan said she was assigned to examine the crime scene at the time of the incident.

However, Khunying Porntip said she no longer had any evidence as the DSI chief at the time, Pol Gen Noppadol Somboonsup, had prevented her and her team of investigators from keeping anything from the crime scene and were refused access to the boy's body.

Unquote

Now isn,t this typical of what looks like another cover up by the previous administration.

This is not related to the questioning of Khunying Porntip,s integrity but the police and the DSI

What i find hard to take is the lack of concern and yet again " accountability " in this disturbing incident.

I will be interested in the present P.M,s ideas on tackling this problem.

I feel confident / hope it will be a more humane solution, providing completely different alternatives of a restrictive / educational nature along with targeting the big boys who supply the drugs this time around.

This can be achieved by encouraging the small fish to give information while offering protection and encouragement to make it happen.

marshbags

P.S.

To all you doubters, I would like to ask you why, if they had nothing to hide, would they first of all loose relevant evidence and most important of all WHY did they refused to allow inspection of the young victims body.

Perhaps it was due to him being hit by more than the alledged " One bullet " in my humble opinion

Edited November 17, 2006 by marshbags

[younghusband]

People would say that they just wanted the drug problem to be dealt with and they would argue that they didn't support the actual killings.

What it will come down to is: "Did you support the blacklisting of suspects and demands for numbers of killed drug dealers?" 90% would say they had no idea how the lists were compiled and what was supposed to happen to people on the lists.

Unless they can bring exact quotes like that famous monk saying that lives of drug dealers are lower than that of dogs, you don't have the case.

Or look at it from another angle - if the generals knew they were implicated themselves, no review/inquiry would have been started at all.

I doubt anything will come out of it in the end, but I'd give them the chance. If they can change the public perception that the drug war was ok, it will be far better in the long run than putting a few guys in jail.

And to end on a non contentious note, I would fully concur with your last para

[Plus]

Actually it was Lukamar who left the quesion unanswered, but he's nowhere to be seen today.

[JacknDanny]

Actually it was Lukamar who left the quesion unanswered, but he's nowhere to be seen today.

SSSHHH, He is on a secret mission with his connections!!!!

[Siripon]

To undertake reform of the police and at the same time bring up the drug war killings is indeed a momentous and uphill task.

Just note the reaction of a senior police officer who said the country would go up in flames.

Vested interests, protection of wrongdoers, the reformists have it hard.

But it's a lot better than doing nothing; I remember the King in his annual birthday speech asking for an explanation and details of all the drug killings from Thaksin, there was little response.

[ColPyat]

But it's a lot better than doing nothing; I remember the King in his annual birthday speech asking for an explanation and details of all the drug killings from Thaksin, there was little response.

And as far as i can remember that particular speach, to which i have listened to closely (and i have asked the wife as well, who also remembers that speach very well), he also said that if it were only 2000 dead it would be a little problem if compared to solving the massive drug problem Thailand had (of which he has made a large topic in his previous birthday speach), and asking for an investigation as he has heard that far more have died.

The "investigation" was dutyfully performed, and result after one month was that "only" 2000 have died indeed, all in police encounters with suspects resisting arrest, or in inter gang silencing killings, as the government has claimed before. The results of this "investigation" were at the time widely published.

That was the end of it.

[JacknDanny]

But it's a lot better than doing nothing; I remember the King in his annual birthday speech asking for an explanation and details of all the drug killings from Thaksin, there was little response.

And as far as i can remember that particular speach, to which i have listened to closely (and i have asked the wife as well, who also remembers that speach very well), he also said that if it were only 2000 dead it would be a little problem if compared to solving the massive drug problem Thailand had (of which he has made a large topic in his previous birthday speach), and asking for an investigation as he has heard that far more have died.

The "investigation" was dutyfully performed, and result after one month was that "only" 2000 have died indeed, all in police encounters with suspects resisting arrest, or in inter gang silencing killings, as the government has claimed before. The results of this "investigation" were at the time widely published.

That was the end of it.

If my memory serves me right, the initial figure quoted by Govt sources as having been killed was several thousand ( I dont recall the figure but it was a lot more than 2000). Then after His Majesty voiced his concerns about the number, a short time later the figure was reduced, with the explanation that a mistake had been made with the original higher figure!!!!!!

Another sideways shuffle by Thaksin and his boys!!!!