Teaching english as a non-native english speaker.

[WorawanWJ]

Well, before I go on with this topic I'd like to apologize in hand, if this is not the current place posting this question, bare with me.

I am currently 21 years old, living in Denmark. Been staying here ever since I was nine years old and I am still a thai citizens. I've been wanting to return to my home country and starts my teaching career, though I think I need some advice on how the situation really looks is like for someone with my capabilities.

I speak thai, fluently. (Though it is a little dusky from not being use so frequently on the daily bases.)
I can't read or write thai, anymore. (But that's teachable.)
I speak english very well, with very little accent or none at all. ( Got A )
My grammar could be better, as I am still improving myself. ( Got B )
I have no bachelor' degree.
No TEFL. (Thinking of getting an online 120-hours course from ITTT)

With all the fact on the table and all the researched I've done in the past couple of days, I'm still very confused. Actually in all I think I've found more question then coming to an answer. I do have a lot of experience with younger kids, since i've often been volunteering on some club activities after school. Which are primary those I want to focused on, children at the age of 4-12. So, here are my questions.

It is possible that I can even teach english with no degree? some say you can but, than again, this is the internet.
Is being a non-native english speaker a bad thing if wanting to teach english in Thailand?
How difficult are the TEFL courses?
Can I expect to be living of off this in a short period of time?
Is there any chance that my Thai speaking skills would become a plus, even though I can't read or write at the time being?
Would I be good enough?
and last but not least.
Is this dream of mine even possible?

Please, I really do hope some of you guys would be able to give me some answers, as I am completely out in deep water.

- Worawan.

[thesetat2013]

From what I know... since you are part Thai. .. you will never get work as a teacher for even the same pay as a normal non native speaking teacher. You also can get a job at any private or semi-private school without a degree as long as you can show you will be trying to get your degree while you are teaching. I know several Thai teachers that grew up abroad and speak perfect english as well as not having their degrees. They get hired on the same as any normal Thai. I think they are assistants the first year and then after proving themselves they get their own class. As a Thai, you don't need a TEFL

I can tell you for certain that your salary will be small.. maybe not more than 13000 baht the same as Thai teachers but you may have tutoring classes that earn you extra money. Whatever anyone else tells you here. You are always going to be seen as a Thai. So you will not get more money.

If you want to try for more money. I would suggest that you do not tell anyone your Thai heritage and never speak Thai. Try to pass yourself off as a foreigner.

This has both good and bad associated with it.

[tomwct]

I teach at a large university in Korat. When you return you will be treated as a Thai Citizen. They will not hire you as a Thai Teacher unless you have a teaching degree with a Masters in English! I would also think you will have to read and write Thai to get that degree. I would recommend, if you want to teach English,

go to the Middle East or another country and apply for an English Teaching Job.

[WorawanWJ]

From what I know... since you are part Thai. .. you will never get work as a teacher for even the same pay as a normal non native speaking teacher. You also can get a job at any private or semi-private school without a degree as long as you can show you will be trying to get your degree while you are teaching. I know several Thai teachers that grew up abroad and speak perfect english as well as not having their degrees. They get hired on the same as any normal Thai. I think they are assistants the first year and then after proving themselves they get their own class. As a Thai, you don't need a TEFL

I can tell you for certain that your salary will be small.. maybe not more than 13000 baht the same as Thai teachers but you may have tutoring classes that earn you extra money. Whatever anyone else tells you here. You are always going to be seen as a Thai. So you will not get more money.

If you want to try for more money. I would suggest that you do not tell anyone your Thai heritage and never speak Thai. Try to pass yourself off as a foreigner.

This has both good and bad associated with it.

I teach at a large university in Korat. When you return you will be treated as a Thai Citizen. They will not hire you as a Thai Teacher unless you have a teaching degree with a Masters in English! I would also think you will have to read and write Thai to get that degree. I would recommend, if you want to teach English,

go to the Middle East or another country and apply for an English Teaching Job.

Thank you for both replies. Though, two completely different answers. I'll make sure to have either TEFL before traveling or getting it in thailand. Thinking it would be most beneficial to have it by the time I've arrived in Thailand.

But yes, thank you again for answering.

[thesetat2013]

It's simple!! You are Thai even though you grow up there.. Here they will only see you as Thai. My wife works for the ministry of Education and knows the rules... You can get a job at a semi private or private school without your degree.. as an assistant. But you must be taking courses at the same time to show you will eventually get your license to teach. My wife suggests that since you don't read or write thai well that you should be trying to find a job at a trading company or call center instead. More money and no degree needed. But if you really are certain to teach them it is possible as a Thai. I know several Thais who teach and don't have a license yet because they are studying for it at the same time as working in that field. I also know several teachers that are the same as you being Thai but raised in another country and they all found that their position was the same as any Thai teacher. Face it.... you are not a non native speaker and you are not from a non native speaking country. You are Thai and will be treated as such. What's worse is that you have no degrees from that country or any country.

[muzmurray]

From what I know... since you are part Thai. .. you will never get work as a teacher for even the same pay as a normal non native speaking teacher. You also can get a job at any private or semi-private school without a degree as long as you can show you will be trying to get your degree while you are teaching. I know several Thai teachers that grew up abroad and speak perfect english as well as not having their degrees. They get hired on the same as any normal Thai. I think they are assistants the first year and then after proving themselves they get their own class. As a Thai, you don't need a TEFL

I can tell you for certain that your salary will be small.. maybe not more than 13000 baht the same as Thai teachers but you may have tutoring classes that earn you extra money. Whatever anyone else tells you here. You are always going to be seen as a Thai. So you will not get more money.

If you want to try for more money. I would suggest that you do not tell anyone your Thai heritage and never speak Thai. Try to pass yourself off as a foreigner.

This has both good and bad associated with it.

Nobody needs a TEFL to teach here, it is not a legal requirement for any nationality.

[thesetat2013]

From what I know... since you are part Thai. .. you will never get work as a teacher for even the same pay as a normal non native speaking teacher. You also can get a job at any private or semi-private school without a degree as long as you can show you will be trying to get your degree while you are teaching. I know several Thai teachers that grew up abroad and speak perfect english as well as not having their degrees. They get hired on the same as any normal Thai. I think they are assistants the first year and then after proving themselves they get their own class. As a Thai, you don't need a TEFL

I can tell you for certain that your salary will be small.. maybe not more than 13000 baht the same as Thai teachers but you may have tutoring classes that earn you extra money. Whatever anyone else tells you here. You are always going to be seen as a Thai. So you will not get more money.

If you want to try for more money. I would suggest that you do not tell anyone your Thai heritage and never speak Thai. Try to pass yourself off as a foreigner.

This has both good and bad associated with it.

Nobody needs a TEFL to teach here, it is not a legal requirement for any nationality.

He sounds set on knowing his requirements as a non native speaker to teach here yet, is unwilling to accept that he will be seen and treated as a Thai looking for work and not a non native foreigner.

[Rayk]

From what I know... since you are part Thai. .. you will never get work as a teacher for even the same pay as a normal non native speaking teacher. You also can get a job at any private or semi-private school without a degree as long as you can show you will be trying to get your degree while you are teaching. I know several Thai teachers that grew up abroad and speak perfect english as well as not having their degrees. They get hired on the same as any normal Thai. I think they are assistants the first year and then after proving themselves they get their own class. As a Thai, you don't need a TEFL

I can tell you for certain that your salary will be small.. maybe not more than 13000 baht the same as Thai teachers but you may have tutoring classes that earn you extra money. Whatever anyone else tells you here. You are always going to be seen as a Thai. So you will not get more money.

If you want to try for more money. I would suggest that you do not tell anyone your Thai heritage and never speak Thai. Try to pass yourself off as a foreigner.

This has both good and bad associated with it.

Nobody needs a TEFL to teach here, it is not a legal requirement for any nationality.

He sounds set on knowing his requirements as a non native speaker to teach here yet, is unwilling to accept that he will be seen and treated as a Thai looking for work and not a non native foreigner.

He is actually a she.

[Rhys]

Guide the youngster to another job option

[DavisH]

The main factor affecting your chances is not having a degree. This will be a major impediment for employment in Thailand, as it is elsewhere.

A few Thai teachers have come through my school and employed on a higher rate than regular Thai teachers - however, this is an EP and they taught subjects like physics and other content area subjects. They were all educated overseas with degrees and spoke fluent english. They absolutely never spoke Thai to students. The students were aware they were Thai but the teachers pretended they did not understand Thai. They weren't on a western teacher salaries but quite a bit higher than the regular Thai teachers. (35-40K a month or more).

You are still young so better get that degree - preferably one done in english.

edit: we also have a number of Thais who work in the office...photocopying and general duties. I doubt their salaries are high though.

[AjarnNorth]

No offense to the above posters, but there is a lot of misinformation here. Some private language centers with branches throughout Thailand require only that you have a "native-like command of English."

The idea that you would be paid less at such an organization because you are Thai is absolutely false.

On the other hand, most will require a BA and a 120 hour TEFL. But if you get the job you'd be on the same scale as any other teacher, and some private language centers hire plenty of folks with "Native-like command of English" who are from the Philippines, India, Sri Lanka, and yes, Thailand.

University jobs do not even necessarily require that you have a BA, depending on where. So it's much more complicated than a lot of the above are suggesting.

Do you have Thai citizenship? That changes some things.

[muzmurray]

No offense to the above posters, but there is a lot of misinformation here. Some private language centers with branches throughout Thailand require only that you have a "native-like command of English."

The idea that you would be paid less at such an organization because you are Thai is absolutely false.

On the other hand, most will require a BA and a 120 hour TEFL. But if you get the job you'd be on the same scale as any other teacher, and some private language centers hire plenty of folks with "Native-like command of English" who are from the Philippines, India, Sri Lanka, and yes, Thailand.

University jobs do not even necessarily require that you have a BA, depending on where. So it's much more complicated than a lot of the above are suggesting.

Do you have Thai citizenship? That changes some things.

Really?

[lostinisaan]

No offense to the above posters, but there is a lot of misinformation here. Some private language centers with branches throughout Thailand require only that you have a "native-like command of English."

The idea that you would be paid less at such an organization because you are Thai is absolutely false.

On the other hand, most will require a BA and a 120 hour TEFL. But if you get the job you'd be on the same scale as any other teacher, and some private language centers hire plenty of folks with "Native-like command of English" who are from the Philippines, India, Sri Lanka, and yes, Thailand.

University jobs do not even necessarily require that you have a BA, depending on where. So it's much more complicated than a lot of the above are suggesting.

Do you have Thai citizenship? That changes some things.

Dear Ajarn,

Is it possible that you mix some things here up? "Most will require a BA and a 120 hour TEFL is only something that seems to pop up when a school's using ajarn.com to find a teacher.

A TEFL, or TESOL is in no way a requirement. If the OP would have a degree in any field, she'd have to pass a TOEIC examination with at least 600 points out of 980.The OP should have a degree and is young enough to go for one.

She is Thai and not having a degree puts here in a miserable situation and she'll have to work illegal, because there's no way to get her legal under Thai laws.

Some institutions are seeking people with a native like command in English, just because they don't get NES teachers for the money they offer.

Universities jobs do not necessarily require that you have a BA, they'd like to see a Master's, or higher.

Please don't give false information to the OP that she might think she could work at a university.

OP, you're young enough to study at a good university for free. Do that and once you're holding a BA, preferable in education, you're good to go.Get your reading and writing skills back, look for the right university and don't think about four years of studying.

Time is relative and anything else wouldn't be beneficial for you.

Finally, she'll get paid less than a Filipino, or a Cameroonian with a fake degree.

[muzmurray]

No offense to the above posters, but there is a lot of misinformation here. Some private language centers with branches throughout Thailand require only that you have a "native-like command of English."

The idea that you would be paid less at such an organization because you are Thai is absolutely false.

On the other hand, most will require a BA and a 120 hour TEFL. But if you get the job you'd be on the same scale as any other teacher, and some private language centers hire plenty of folks with "Native-like command of English" who are from the Philippines, India, Sri Lanka, and yes, Thailand.

University jobs do not even necessarily require that you have a BA, depending on where. So it's much more complicated than a lot of the above are suggesting.

Do you have Thai citizenship? That changes some things.

Dear Ajarn,

Is it possible that you mix some things here up? "Most will require a BA and a 120 hour TEFL is only something that seems to pop up when a school's using ajarn.com to find a teacher.

A TEFL, or TESOL is in no way a requirement. If the OP would have a degree in any field, she'd have to pass a TOEIC examination with at least 600 points out of 980.The OP should have a degree and is young enough to go for one.

She is Thai and not having a degree puts here in a miserable situation and she'll have to work illegal, because there's no way to get her legal under Thai laws.

Some institutions are seeking people with a native like command in English, just because they don't get NES teachers for the money they offer.

Universities jobs do not necessarily require that you have a BA, they'd like to see a Master's, or higher.

Please don't give false information to the OP that she might think she could work at a university.

OP, you're young enough to study at a good university for free. Do that and once you're holding a BA, preferable in education, you're good to go.Get your reading and writing skills back, look for the right university and don't think about four years of studying.

Time is relative and anything else wouldn't be beneficial for you.

Finally, she'll get paid less than a Filipino, or a Cameroonian with a fake degree.

The OP is Thai, therefore she can not work illegally, remember she does not need the visa and work permit.

[SlyAnimal]

WorawanWJ, do you also have a passport from Denmark?

As has been mentioned by others, you'd fall into the category of a non-native English speaker, and so likely be looking at the jobs that are looking for Filipinos/Africans/Indians etc, so you could expect a salary of roughly 20,000 THB per month, give or take a little depending on the area/school etc.

Although you'd also need to show that you are from Denmark, and not having a degree will hold you back, since all of the applicants from the non-native speaking countries will have degrees. A degree is necessary to obtain a teacher's licence, and although some of the posters have said "You're Thai so you don't need a degree!", they say that because they only focus on their work permit, when actually all teachers need a teacher's licence (Although of course, the rules/laws often aren't enforced strictly in Thailand, particularly when you go into the countryside).

You might be best off either going to a university to do some study, as if you were to get a degree in education you would likely then have more success when looking for jobs as a foreign teacher, or with a degree in education you could apply to become a civil servant and teach as a Thai teacher, which would likely be a better option long term. Also while studying at university your written Thai would improve significantly, I think that as you are already fluent in spoken Thai, it'd be relatively easy to learn to read & write (Chulalongkorn University has a very good course for learning to read/write, at level 2 the foreigners with almost no Thai learn to competently read/write within 6 weeks. It's a lot of work for foreigners, but I imagine it'd be a lot easier as you since you can already fluently speak and thus can more easily differentiate the vowel lengths, tones and sounds).

It would probably also be a good idea to do an English proficiency test, there are various types, but generally IELTS & TOEFL are the most widely recognised ones I think, Although CEFR might be worth doing too, so long as you can obtain at least C1, since the Thai teachers all had to do that test last year and so I think they would understand what is then required to obtain each level.

A TESOL course or similar would be a good idea, although I would reccommend going to university and studying education instead, as a TESOL course isn't really very worthwhile as a qualification itself, although it will help you with learning how to teach.

[AjarnNorth]

No offense to the above posters, but there is a lot of misinformation here. Some private language centers with branches throughout Thailand require only that you have a "native-like command of English."

The idea that you would be paid less at such an organization because you are Thai is absolutely false.

On the other hand, most will require a BA and a 120 hour TEFL. But if you get the job you'd be on the same scale as any other teacher, and some private language centers hire plenty of folks with "Native-like command of English" who are from the Philippines, India, Sri Lanka, and yes, Thailand.

University jobs do not even necessarily require that you have a BA, depending on where. So it's much more complicated than a lot of the above are suggesting.

Do you have Thai citizenship? That changes some things.

Really?

Yes, really.

[AjarnNorth]

No offense to the above posters, but there is a lot of misinformation here. Some private language centers with branches throughout Thailand require only that you have a "native-like command of English."

The idea that you would be paid less at such an organization because you are Thai is absolutely false.

On the other hand, most will require a BA and a 120 hour TEFL. But if you get the job you'd be on the same scale as any other teacher, and some private language centers hire plenty of folks with "Native-like command of English" who are from the Philippines, India, Sri Lanka, and yes, Thailand.

University jobs do not even necessarily require that you have a BA, depending on where. So it's much more complicated than a lot of the above are suggesting.

Do you have Thai citizenship? That changes some things.

Dear Ajarn,

Is it possible that you mix some things here up? "Most will require a BA and a 120 hour TEFL is only something that seems to pop up when a school's using ajarn.com to find a teacher.

A TEFL, or TESOL is in no way a requirement. If the OP would have a degree in any field, she'd have to pass a TOEIC examination with at least 600 points out of 980.The OP should have a degree and is young enough to go for one.

She is Thai and not having a degree puts here in a miserable situation and she'll have to work illegal, because there's no way to get her legal under Thai laws.

Some institutions are seeking people with a native like command in English, just because they don't get NES teachers for the money they offer.

Universities jobs do not necessarily require that you have a BA, they'd like to see a Master's, or higher.

Please don't give false information to the OP that she might think she could work at a university.

OP, you're young enough to study at a good university for free. Do that and once you're holding a BA, preferable in education, you're good to go.Get your reading and writing skills back, look for the right university and don't think about four years of studying.

Time is relative and anything else wouldn't be beneficial for you.

Finally, she'll get paid less than a Filipino, or a Cameroonian with a fake degree.

No, I am not mixing things up. You are correct that a TEFL or equivalent is not a legal requirement. What I said was many language centers will require it. Many schools have their own requirements that go beyond what is legally required.

Your statement that she is at a huge disadvantage without a degree is correct. But if she is Thai and has citizenship she could find employment teaching kindergarten and/or etc. above or under the table.

Your statement that "Some institutions are seeking people with a native like command in English, just because they don't get NES teachers for the money they offer." is not correct.

I know because I work for such an organization and I hire people. Probably 90 percent are white and from what are considered NES teachers from the usual NES countries and about ten percent are not but are perfectly capable and good English teachers.

A more correct statement would read something like: "Some institutions will hire people with a "native-like" command of the English language because they are not racist and recognize that a person from a country like India, Denmark, Philippines etc. can be just as good a teacher as one from the US, Canada, England etc. as long as their English language ability is up to snuff." In fact, some of these organizations have people in management positions who are "Native-like" speakers of English but not from the usual list of NES counties. This is fact.

And my statement that one can land a uni position without a BA is also fact. In Bangkok, not so much. Up country, things are a bit more flexible.

Please note that I was clear in that in this particular case, at her age, all things considered, the best bet is to get a BA and a TEFL and then consider coming here.

But if she does have Thai citizenship, that changes things considerably.

But I am not here to argue so I will bow out I think and allow everyone to carry on with whatever they think is the case.

Thanks. Out.

[TerryLH]

"OP, you're young enough to study at a good university for free."

Which university would be free for her?

All I know of charge something. Not always expensive, but not free.

[richard10365]

With so many better qualified people looking to teach English its foolish to think you can come here and try to earn a decent salary with zero qualifications. Sure you may get hired but you really have very little power to ask for a particular salary. Stop kidding yourself before you start a family in Thailand. Go get a bachelor's degree to improve your competitiveness and chances of getting hired. If you don't do it now you will regret it in the future. I guarantee it.

[nausea]

People who can speak Thai and English fluently, are two a penny. Get a degree, learn how to read and write Thai. Of course you can get a job here, at the lower end of the spectrum. A lot will depend on your appearance - to be blunt, the less Asian looking you are, the better your chances. Here's a tip, Don't let your students know you speak Thai.