Detained at immigration Don Muang

[kharmabum]

if thai immigration has an official policy of only allowing 3 visa exempt entries per year, or x number of months per year allowed in country, then they should tell people when they get their 3rd entry "sorry, but this will be your last one for at least a year. enjoy your time in thailand",then stamp their passport to make it official. they don't do that. they give no warning and then pull people into a room and scream and insult them. they did this to my wife also at don muang. although they didn't accuse her of being a prostitute. and at least it was all women immigration officers doing the screaming. they kept saying to her "you don't pay taxesin thailand!" she kept saying "i don't workin thailand, and i spend money in thailand", but they only cared about taxes, probably because that is what pays their salaries.

Edited June 22, 2016 by kharmabum

[elgordo38]

I have a retirement visa.

We also have a beautiful home and a nice life here, with good friends. So I'm are not dragging her around.

I'm not sure who you are saying could be arrested? The immigration guy? That's laughable. Same with PH embassy. Useless.

ASEAN maybe.

Thailand needs to have a grievance process to keep dishonest officials from harassing young women witch legitimate passports.

Who is this flake going to harass, insult and abuse next?

Thailand does have a grievance process call 1111.

All our agents are presently busy serving other customers please stay on the line your call is very important to us followed by a dial tone.

[peesing]

yep, i had this happen to me at Don Muang airport very recently, except degrading comments weren't made. the immigration officer in the office said i was only allowed to stay in Thailand 180 days over a 1 year period. i stated that I had only 70 days in 6 months and then he changed his story to being allowed no more than 6 tourist visa stamps in 1 year. he said 6 X 30 =180 days which is max regardless of how many days i actually spent in Thailand. at that point i realized it was useless to argue with him.

i go to Thailand a lot for medical and as a hub for air travel. spent over 2 million Baht over the last couple of years just for surgeries at BH. And that doesn't count all the follow-up appointments. the SEA country i'm living in at the moment doesn't have good medical and the air travel from there to Western countries is difficult and expensive. So i use Bangkok to hub and spend a few days relaxing. i do not live in Thailand.

the other immigration official at the entry station wrote 'warning *10' in my passport which caused concern as I had a RT ticket Bangkok to Latvia in a couple of days. i went to the Thai Immigration office at Chaeng Wattana the following day . the two immigration officials there said that was all BS at Don Muang and there is no limit on number of visits or number of days per year. they said i was welcome to Thailand anytime. they did say the boss's new policy was to take an extra look at frequent travelers to Thailand, not to stop them from entry. they recommended getting either a Thai 1-year multiple entry visa or to use Suvarnabhumi Airport for entry into Bangkok. the Suvarnabhumi Airport is working well. no problems.

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post and the expected replies to it has been removed.

[anotheruser]

The OP has a clear way to solve this but seems to not want to take any of the advice given. So by all means go ahead and do it the way you were doing it. You are right and they are wrong stick by your principles and report back to us.

Your wife has a clear path to live here easily and inexpensively. Many of us on TV wish we had such an option. Get over your sense of self entitlement and get a visa or continue to let your wife be treated like a prostitute at random airports. What is the problem?

[mngmn]

Would imagine the budget airlines and in particular the new owner of Air Asia world be thrilled to hear the Immigration Department advising not to use Don Muang?

Maybe someone should mention it. Might be more effective than 1111.

Edited June 22, 2016 by mngmn

[tropo]

The OP has a clear way to solve this but seems to not want to take any of the advice given. So by all means go ahead and do it the way you were doing it. You are right and they are wrong stick by your principles and report back to us.

Your wife has a clear path to live here easily and inexpensively. Many of us on TV wish we had such an option. Get over your sense of self entitlement and get a visa or continue to let your wife be treated like a prostitute at random airports. What is the problem?

Yes, it comes to a grand total of 1900 per year once she has made the trip to Laos to get her non-O single entry visa, a one-off expense... plus a re-entry permit or two if she travels anywhere. You can't beat that!

[Chalard]

Would imagine the budget airlines and in particular the new owner of Air Asia world be thrilled to hear the Immigration Department advising not to use Don Muang?

Maybe someone should mention it. Might be more effective than 1111.

Don't worry about K Vichai too much, Kingpower will get you at Swampy..!!! lol

[Tomtomtom69]

I do sympathize with the OP on this. Horrible experience for his dear wife.

My wife and I, we're both citizens of "ASEAN".

The thing is, unlike the EU, ASEAN is a lot of talk and hardly much substance. Freedom of movement, economy, innovation, etc.... All are basically a pipe dream at the moment. All that document signing, hand shaking ceremonies really masks all the underlying tension around this region.

Country A thinks lowly of country B, who would do so to C who may think that lowly of A and B. And so on, and on.....

Yours is a prime example. Filipino lady, entering and exiting regularly.... To this officer she must obviously be a "professional". In my case, my wife got detained at the Malaysian airport because (guess what) a Thai lady, entering and exiting regularly on a Visa exempt, she has to be a "professional". Marriage is not considered.

All in all, as friendlier members here have advised: If she's ever back in the Philippines, get the 90 day "Non-O" visa first (should be free because "ASEAN") then once she's here, apply for the extension by marriage / dependency.

ASEAN has been around since 1967. It is primarily designed to be an economic community, not a regional one government quasi state like the EU - the united nations of Europe, which is what the EU is working towards.

AEC, which is what I think you mean, has NO intention of being like the EU. There will be no freedom of movement for people or vehicles, a common currency or a pan-national government which runs the whole region from one city, like Brussels does in the case of the EU. Please get that idea out of your mind as that is simply NOT the concept behind the AEC.

Secondly, given the vast disparities in levels of development between member states (Singapore being one of the richest countries in the world, while Laos and Cambodia are amongst the poorest - Thailand is somewhere in the middle and the Phils between the bottom and Thailand's position) means that it's all but impossible to integrate the region and put common standards in place, especially in such a short space of time. If there were complete freedom of movement, then Singapore's population would balloon to 20 million overnight, while Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar and the Philippines would empty out of people. Realistically, freedom of movement of people simply isn't going to happen.

If it ever does, though I doubt it will because in this region at least, national sovereignty is not something that countries want to give up, it will take decades, perhaps even 100 years. It probably won't happen in any of our lifetimes.

As unfortunate as it is, it is not uncommon for Thai women to be discriminated against in the richer member states (especially Singapore, but also occasionally Malaysia) not to mention in non-ASEAN states like South Korea and Japan particularly if they fly in by themselves and similarly, for women from poorer countries like the Philippines, Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar to be discriminated against by immigration in Thailand.

Non-O visa is free for ASEAN nationals? I don't think so. Where did you hear this? Pretty sure they have to pay like everyone else though if someone has evidence to back up what you said is true, feel free to correct me.

If OP wants to live here with his Filipino spouse, he should get her a non-O or dependent visa/extension as you say.

[Tomtomtom69]

No risk ? HA

You don't go to immigration, so yes, there's no risk of being hassled if you're not physically there.

If your 'agent' falls off his motorcycle taxi on the way to get your extension, probably others as well, I can see a few passports going missing etc etc.

Then you will see hassle.

And how can you be absolutely sure that he was actually en route to the local immigration office to get your passport stamped with the extension, as distinct from a mate of his who is an expert in forgery?

I though it was illegal for foreigners to send an agent to immigration and that all visa related matters MUST be done in person by the applicant? Maybe I'm wrong, but I have never heard of anyone on here talk about sending an agent or someone else to obtain a visa extension on their behalf.

[swegolf1956]

Married May. It takes a while for Documents to arrive, be processed, etc. This is the last visa run-BTW visa runs are required by Thai govt, we don't like doing them. We do them to follow rules-for a while until doc's arrive and can be signed and processed. She does not qualify for O dependent status until then.

Even though we are transitioning out of visa runs to O dependent we are still legal and obliged to do visa runs. To have an IO rewrite the laws and play the clown denigrates Thailand and their good faith agreement to ASEAN.

I'm retired US Air Force. A call might be in order.

[mstevens]

if thai immigration has an official policy of only allowing 3 visa exempt entries per year, or x number of months per year allowed in country, then they should tell people when they get their 3rd entry "sorry, but this will be your last one for at least a year. enjoy your time in thailand",then stamp their passport to make it official. they don't do that. they give no warning and then pull people into a room and scream and insult them. they did this to my wife also at don muang. although they didn't accuse her of being a prostitute. and at least it was all women immigration officers doing the screaming. they kept saying to her "you don't pay taxesin thailand!" she kept saying "i don't workin thailand, and i spend money in thailand", but they only cared about taxes, probably because that is what pays their salaries.

Communication has never been a strength of the Thais. I also wonder if they prefer to keep the exact policy secret as past evidence shows that as soon as the policy is clearly understood, foreigners come up with work-arounds and circumvent it, something which Immigration may wish to avoid happening. And it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the frontline Immigration officers aren't 100% clear on what the exact policy is.

[ubonjoe]

Married May. It takes a while for Documents to arrive, be processed, etc. This is the last visa run-BTW visa runs are required by Thai govt, we don't like doing them. We do them to follow rules-for a while until doc's arrive and can be signed and processed. She does not qualify for O dependent status until then.

Even though we are transitioning out of visa runs to O dependent we are still legal and obliged to do visa runs. To have an IO rewrite the laws and play the clown denigrates Thailand and their good faith agreement to ASEAN.

I'm retired US Air Force. A call might be in order.

Not sure what documents you are waiting for. To get the non-o visa for all you need is your marriage certificate and a copy of your passport to show your extension of stay based upon retirement.

Then there would be 90 days from the date of entry to apply for the one year extension.

[kiwiaussie]

Married May. It takes a while for Documents to arrive, be processed, etc. This is the last visa run-BTW visa runs are required by Thai govt, we don't like doing them. We do them to follow rules-for a while until doc's arrive and can be signed and processed. She does not qualify for O dependent status until then.

Even though we are transitioning out of visa runs to O dependent we are still legal and obliged to do visa runs. To have an IO rewrite the laws and play the clown denigrates Thailand and their good faith agreement to ASEAN.

I'm retired US Air Force. A call might be in order.

You've got to get your head around the fact that being member of ASEAN offers no visa advantages whatsoever. This isn't NAFTA or the EU.

Your wife was taken aside because she wasn't deemed a genuine tourist. You've basically confirmed that yourself.

Best to get the extension of stay based on marriage to you sorted ASAP.

I'd put more energy into that than whining to your ex service buddies about it. They can't help.

[stevenl]

You don't go to immigration, so yes, there's no risk of being hassled if you're not physically there.

If your 'agent' falls off his motorcycle taxi on the way to get your extension, probably others as well, I can see a few passports going missing etc etc.

Then you will see hassle.

And how can you be absolutely sure that he was actually en route to the local immigration office to get your passport stamped with the extension, as distinct from a mate of his who is an expert in forgery?

I though it was illegal for foreigners to send an agent to immigration and that all visa related matters MUST be done in person by the applicant? Maybe I'm wrong, but I have never heard of anyone on here talk about sending an agent or someone else to obtain a visa extension on their behalf.

I always use an agent for my yearly extensions.

[jspill]

If your 'agent' falls off his motorcycle taxi on the way to get your extension, probably others as well, I can see a few passports going missing etc etc.

Then you will see hassle.

And how can you be absolutely sure that he was actually en route to the local immigration office to get your passport stamped with the extension, as distinct from a mate of his who is an expert in forgery?

I though it was illegal for foreigners to send an agent to immigration and that all visa related matters MUST be done in person by the applicant? Maybe I'm wrong, but I have never heard of anyone on here talk about sending an agent or someone else to obtain a visa extension on their behalf.

I always use an agent for my yearly extensions.

Yeah I don't know why people freak out about agents for extensions, it's not the same as fake stamps, fake paperwork, your passport leaving the country without you, or anything nefarious like that.

It's just getting an extension you would've qualified for anyway.

[Tomtomtom69]

Married May. It takes a while for Documents to arrive, be processed, etc. This is the last visa run-BTW visa runs are required by Thai govt, we don't like doing them. We do them to follow rules-for a while until doc's arrive and can be signed and processed. She does not qualify for O dependent status until then.

Even though we are transitioning out of visa runs to O dependent we are still legal and obliged to do visa runs. To have an IO rewrite the laws and play the clown denigrates Thailand and their good faith agreement to ASEAN.

I'm retired US Air Force. A call might be in order.

You've got to get your head around the fact that being member of ASEAN offers no visa advantages whatsoever. This isn't NAFTA or the EU.

Your wife was taken aside because she wasn't deemed a genuine tourist. You've basically confirmed that yourself.

Best to get the extension of stay based on marriage to you sorted ASAP.

I'd put more energy into that than whining to your ex service buddies about it. They can't help.

You are right. As I mentioned above, there is absolutely NO agreement with ASEAN on their citizens being allowed special privileges compared to non-ASEAN citizens. There never was any such talk either. I have no idea where some westerners get their information from. Clearly from the bar stool but not from any official sources.

In the meantime, the OPs wife might want to get a tourist visa at least. Continuing with a visa exemption is only going to spell more trouble. Immigration was right to detain her - she's not a genuine tourist. 1 or 2 exemptions max. is fine, after that, get a tourist visa in the meantime. How hard can it be. There is a Thai embassy in Manila. They issue visas there.

[MissAndry]

Yeah I don't know why people freak out about agents for extensions, it's not the same as fake stamps, fake paperwork, your passport leaving the country without you, or anything nefarious like that.

But in Cm it does appear to involve agents bribing government officials.

Something we would all go to jail for in our home countries.

You may be OK with that, but I like to avoid participating in serious crime while on holiday.

[tropo]

Married May. It takes a while for Documents to arrive, be processed, etc. This is the last visa run-BTW visa runs are required by Thai govt, we don't like doing them. We do them to follow rules-for a while until doc's arrive and can be signed and processed. She does not qualify for O dependent status until then.

Even though we are transitioning out of visa runs to O dependent we are still legal and obliged to do visa runs. To have an IO rewrite the laws and play the clown denigrates Thailand and their good faith agreement to ASEAN.

I'm retired US Air Force. A call might be in order.

If you are married I can assure you she was "qualified" as a dependant on the day you married. The ONLY documents she needs are her passport and marriage certificate.

Perhaps she is trying to get a passport in her married name - that could take up to 6 weeks using the Philippine Embassy but she won't need any special documents for that as she already has a passport and she is married. Filling out a "report of marriage" form is all that is required.

She DOESN'T need a passport in her married name to get a non-O Visa or retirement extensions.

Someone must be feeding you incorrect information.

[JackThompson]

In the meantime, the OPs wife might want to get a tourist visa at least. Continuing with a visa exemption is only going to spell more trouble.

Correct.

Immigration was right to detain her - she's not a genuine tourist. 1 or 2 exemptions max. is fine, after that, get a tourist visa in the meantime.

Incorrect, unless she had received a stated and written warning, or there is a posted policy stating exactly what the rules are for Visa Exempt entries. If anyone can link to a document that states exactly how many one may receive in what period of time - not a vague "no visa runners" statement, then I would like to read it.

[JLCrab]

Furthermore, foreigners who enter the Kingdom under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative duration of stay of not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry.

http://mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15380-Questions-&-Answers-on-Thai-Visa.html

[stevenl]

Furthermore, foreigners who enter the Kingdom under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative duration of stay of not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry.

http://mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15380-Questions-&-Answers-on-Thai-Visa.html

Yes, a lot of incorrect information there. If you navigate away from the Q&A but go to the requirements it is a lot better.

[ubonjoe]

Furthermore, foreigners who enter the Kingdom under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative duration of stay of not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry.

http://mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15380-Questions-&-Answers-on-Thai-Visa.html

That is out of date by almost 8 years. The MFA has not kept their Q&A section up to date. That rule was rescinded when police order 778/2551 went into effect in November of 2008.

[JLCrab]

The guy asked for something in writing -- there is something in writing.

The http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy778-2551_en.pdf order repealed the previous Clause 3. It now said that persons using Visa exempt entries should be "granted multiple entries" but it did not say that such entries are unlimited. So maybe an Immigration officer has the discretion to say that multiple entries are not unlimited entries.

Edited June 23, 2016 by JLCrab

[jspill]

Immigration was right to detain her - she's not a genuine tourist. 1 or 2 exemptions max. is fine, after that, get a tourist visa in the meantime. How hard can it be. There is a Thai embassy in Manila. They issue visas there.

So a country should waste time and resources to detain some people on their 4th visa waiver, yet tell others 6 in a year is fine, and tell others still that there are no official limits whatsoever.

Sounds a bit over the top. They could just take 2 seconds to say hey next time get a visa and wave her through. Maybe scribble a one sentence note in her passport.

P.S. Manila consulate is a nightmare.

Edited June 23, 2016 by jspill

[JackThompson]

The guy asked for something in writing -- there is something in writing.

The http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy778-2551_en.pdf order repealed the previous Clause 3. It now said that persons using Visa exempt entries should be "granted multiple entries" but it did not say that such entries are unlimited. So maybe an Immigration officer has the discretion to say that multiple entries are not unlimited entries.

I appreciate the effort JL - and, yes, Visa Exempt rules were clearer back then. But I would not try even two VEs in the current climate, to spite having no others in years.

If I had not been in Thailand for 1 year plus, then I might risk it - but only if coming in from somewhere like Tokyo, where I could not get a Tourist Visa. Even in that case, I'd probably fly to Malaysia (where I'd get 90 days free), visit an agent in Penang, and then enter by train.