US: F-16 fighter jets intercept passenger plane over disruptive man

[billd766]

Ka...Ching! US National Debt Clock. And they needed two F-16s to escort? Gotta have a backup, I guess. And their critical mission was ...?

To stop someone who could cause harm to people on the plane. Or possible to do something to cause the plane to crash,

into a school, hospital, etc.

My best guess, in this case, is that two pilots needed some flight time to get their flight pay this month. We can only speculate given the minimal info we have. Perhaps one of the plane's pilots overreacted or accidentally triggered its transponder's hijack code and the situation escalated. In the unlikely eventuality that there was a shoot down, you can bet they'd be working on a scheme to plausibly (or even implausibly) blame the right wing (not the plane's right wing, of course).

But, Thanks anyway, I've got you covered - HERE (ie click this)

Would you like a tinfoil hat to go with your conspiracy theory?

[billd766]

Is there a compromise order, yes or no? Is there a standing order, yes or no? Was the plane armed?

Without this information a fighter jet appearing in the sky is no more meaningful then UFO sightings.

Can/will the plane shoot the civilian airliner? Can it act autonomously if aggressive moves by airline? What is the playbook? I can't see why this 'deterrent' would be more meaningful then Obama's other defense postures.

Is there is a standing order? Yes.

Are the fighter aircraft armed? Yes.

Can/will the fighter aircraft shoot the civilian aircraft down? Yes they will, if they are ordered to do so.

Can they act autonomously? As a last resort, yes they can.

It is NOT a playbook but a reality since 9/11.

It is nothing to do with Obama and has been in force since 9/11.

[billd766]

Hopefully, in the last 15 years, the FAA has figured out how to lock a cockpit door so that it can't be accessed by some loon(s).

So in a situation where perhaps a stewardess is held at the point of a box cutter and the terrorists say that they will slash her throat open and kill her, and if that doesn't work they will work their way though the passengers starting with the children, what would YOU as the pilot and in command of the aircraft, actually DO?

[arjunadawn]

Is there a compromise order, yes or no? Is there a standing order, yes or no? Was the plane armed?

Without this information a fighter jet appearing in the sky is no more meaningful then UFO sightings.

Can/will the plane shoot the civilian airliner? Can it act autonomously if aggressive moves by airline? What is the playbook? I can't see why this 'deterrent' would be more meaningful then Obama's other defense postures.

Is there is a standing order? Yes.

Are the fighter aircraft armed? Yes.

Can/will the fighter aircraft shoot the civilian aircraft down? Yes they will, if they are ordered to do so.

Can they act autonomously? As a last resort, yes they can.

It is NOT a playbook but a reality since 9/11.

It is nothing to do with Obama and has been in force since 9/11.

It is true, I admit, I filter everything through this lens lately. I suppose my question should have clearly stated it was rhetorical- that I do not believe this president has a standing order that would permit a compromise shooting (shadowing airliner takes a nose dive toward city, etc). I cant prove it. You are correct. Just a sense that I cannot see it being in place.

Still, great answer. Thank you.

Edit: A 'playbook' is not derogatory toward anyone. This is a typical name used for the steps in a given defense scenario.

Edited June 23, 2016 by arjunadawn

[Morch]

Is there a compromise order, yes or no? Is there a standing order, yes or no? Was the plane armed?

Without this information a fighter jet appearing in the sky is no more meaningful then UFO sightings.

Can/will the plane shoot the civilian airliner? Can it act autonomously if aggressive moves by airline? What is the playbook? I can't see why this 'deterrent' would be more meaningful then Obama's other defense postures.

Is there is a standing order? Yes.

Are the fighter aircraft armed? Yes.

Can/will the fighter aircraft shoot the civilian aircraft down? Yes they will, if they are ordered to do so.

Can they act autonomously? As a last resort, yes they can.

It is NOT a playbook but a reality since 9/11.

It is nothing to do with Obama and has been in force since 9/11.

It is true, I admit, I filter everything through this lens lately. I suppose my question should have clearly stated it was rhetorical- that I do not believe this president has a standing order that would permit a compromise shooting (shadowing airliner takes a nose dive toward city, etc). I cant prove it. You are correct. Just a sense that I cannot see it being in place.

Still, great answer. Thank you.

Edit: A 'playbook' is not derogatory toward anyone. This is a typical name used for the steps in a given defense scenario.

I have no doubt the command exists, and that such possible scenario were analyzed from ever which way.

Having orders and procedures in place, though, is not quite the same as actually making the call.

Wouldn't wanna be in that position, neither on the ground, nor in the air.

[NovaBlue05]

Hopefully, in the last 15 years, the FAA has figured out how to lock a cockpit door so that it can't be accessed by some loon(s).

So in a situation where perhaps a stewardess is held at the point of a box cutter and the terrorists say that they will slash her throat open and kill her, and if that doesn't work they will work their way though the passengers starting with the children, what would YOU as the pilot and in command of the aircraft, actually DO?

I doubt the F-16's were scrambled with protection of the passengers or crew in mind

[up2u2]

So does anyone actually have an intelligent reason as what 2 F-16 fighter jets can do about an unruly passenger that wont sit down? The cockpit had not been breached the plane was on course.

Has America totally lost its collective mind?

Lol, why do you and others get so worked up about stuff like this or all things American if you don't live here. Relax, enjoy life. It will be alright. Hilarious are the concerns of some about costs and fuel if a fighter escort who neither live here nor pay taxes here.

Are they supposed to wait until cockpit us breached and plane is heading toward a school yard or a skyscraper.

Yep, they will shoot it down if for some reason the situation gets out of control, the plane ends up in the hands of terrorists and will be used as a weapon against people on the ground. I am glad they are extra precautions and this poor drunk dude is going to feel like hell when he comes out of that black out.

Just imagine the phone call to the wife explaining that he got too wasted, started a raucous, caused a flight to get diverted with an fighter escort and needs to be bailed out.

Well as America has the largest military in the world with Nuclear weapons the rest of the world would like to think they aren't totally bat crazy and have half a clue. Starting to become as laughable as Pyongyang at the moment. An idiot orange 'politician' on the loose and an idiotic military causing strife all around the world. America seems to have all the symptoms of a mental illness.

I was looking for an intelligent reason rather than mindless speculation. Still haven't read one yet.

[hawker9000]

So does anyone actually have an intelligent reason as what 2 F-16 fighter jets can do about an unruly passenger that wont sit down? The cockpit had not been breached the plane was on course.

Has America totally lost its collective mind?

'That armchair comfortable enough for you? OK, genius, let's just think about this... (It may hurt a little at first since you're obviously not used to it and bloviating over America's lost collective mind is apparently so much more fun.) An airline passenger moves to penetrate the cockpit or by some other means intends to fly the plane, or have it flown, into a public building or crowded downtown area. This stuff usually doesn't get published in the NYT the night before the incident, and it's not on the pilot's flight plan, and for some reason the passenger's status as plain vanilla nutjob (that won't sit down) vs actual suicidal terrorist is left off the passenger manifest. So you see no one gets briefed. It - along with the details of what a passenger really intends and how he means to do it - is kind of meant to come as a bit of a surprise to everybody. 'See, that way, they don't have time to react. No warning and then there's nothing anybody can do in time. That's the idea. It's probably in Terrorism for Dummies somewhere. Now. Once ATC finally deduces what's happening, and it's finally obvious to everybody, even you, that something needs to be done about this plane, THAT'S when YOU decide to scramble jets??!! 'Sure glad they found somebody else to run NORAD...

It's called "precaution". Look it up. Yeah - precautions almost always cost money and inconvenience. Airbags. Food & drug testing. Stoplights. TSA. Life insurance. Annual check-ups. Any of this sinking in? It's the thinking person's alternative to the armchair "do nothing" mentality.

Senseless backbiting over some commonsense precautionary measures. "Oh what a smart boy am I!" 'Really pathetic. You need a hobby.

[up2u2]

So does anyone actually have an intelligent reason as what 2 F-16 fighter jets can do about an unruly passenger that wont sit down? The cockpit had not been breached the plane was on course.

Has America totally lost its collective mind?

'That armchair comfortable enough for you? OK, genius, let's just think about this... (It may hurt a little at first since you're obviously not used to it and bloviating over America's lost collective mind is apparently so much more fun.) An airline passenger moves to penetrate the cockpit or by some other means intends to fly the plane, or have it flown, into a public building or crowded downtown area. This stuff usually doesn't get published in the NYT the night before the incident, and it's not on the pilot's flight plan, and for some reason the passenger's status as plain vanilla nutjob (that won't sit down) vs actual suicidal terrorist is left off the passenger manifest. So you see no one gets briefed. It - along with the details of what a passenger really intends and how he means to do it - is kind of meant to come as a bit of a surprise to everybody. 'See, that way, they don't have time to react. No warning and then there's nothing anybody can do in time. That's the idea. It's probably in Terrorism for Dummies somewhere. Now. Once ATC finally deduces what's happening, and it's finally obvious to everybody, even you, that something needs to be done about this plane, THAT'S when YOU decide to scramble jets??!! 'Sure glad they found somebody else to run NORAD...

It's called "precaution". Look it up. Yeah - precautions almost always cost money and inconvenience. Airbags. Food & drug testing. Stoplights. TSA. Life insurance. Annual check-ups. Any of this sinking in? It's the thinking person's alternative to the armchair "do nothing" mentality.

Senseless backbiting over some commonsense precautionary measures. "Oh what a smart boy am I!" 'Really pathetic. You need a hobby.

'a male passenger became disruptive and refused to sit down' He may have been possessed by aliens too. Without any speculation what were 2 F-16 fighter planes going to do to address the actual situation rather than the mindless speculation fear mongering?

Take it easy America it's just your shadow no need to open fire.

[F430murci]

So does anyone actually have an intelligent reason as what 2 F-16 fighter jets can do about an unruly passenger that wont sit down? The cockpit had not been breached the plane was on course.

Has America totally lost its collective mind?

Lol, why do you and others get so worked up about stuff like this or all things American if you don't live here. Relax, enjoy life. It will be alright. Hilarious are the concerns of some about costs and fuel if a fighter escort who neither live here nor pay taxes here.

Are they supposed to wait until cockpit us breached and plane is heading toward a school yard or a skyscraper.

Yep, they will shoot it down if for some reason the situation gets out of control, the plane ends up in the hands of terrorists and will be used as a weapon against people on the ground. I am glad they are extra precautions and this poor drunk dude is going to feel like hell when he comes out of that black out.

Just imagine the phone call to the wife explaining that he got too wasted, started a raucous, caused a flight to get diverted with an fighter escort and needs to be bailed out.

Well as America has the largest military in the world with Nuclear weapons the rest of the world would like to think they aren't totally bat crazy and have half a clue. Starting to become as laughable as Pyongyang at the moment. An idiot orange 'politician' on the loose and an idiotic military causing strife all around the world. America seems to have all the symptoms of a mental illness.

I was looking for an intelligent reason rather than mindless speculation. Still haven't read one yet.

Nah, you are just looking to be negative and are too obstinate to view things objectively or have a positive outlook.

I read this topic with interest as to what some numb nutz did to cause such a stir. I was then mildly entertained by the thought of what this bozo is now thinking once his buzz is wearing off and having to explain this one to the family and/or his employer. You on the other hand take a benign and mildly entertaining story and somehow use it to fuel a deep seeded vitriolic emotional problem that leads you down a path to nuclear weapons, all Americans are bat <deleted> crazy and display symptoms of mental illness. Okay. You are actually even more entertaining than the article itself.

[Buzzz]

Hopefully, in the last 15 years, the FAA has figured out how to lock a cockpit door so that it can't be accessed by some loon(s).

So in a situation where perhaps a stewardess is held at the point of a box cutter and the terrorists say that they will slash her throat open and kill her, and if that doesn't work they will work their way though the passengers starting with the children, what would YOU as the pilot and in command of the aircraft, actually DO?

The maniac can slice & dice the all passengers and staff. The pilot will not open that door.

[jesimps]

Ka...Ching! US National Debt Clock. And they needed two F-16s to escort? Gotta have a backup, I guess. And their critical mission was ...?

After 9/11 I think that's blatantly obvious.

[Rayk]

Learn from past mistakes.

Wiki:

"Standing orders on September 11 dictated that, upon receiving a request for assistance from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) would normally order escort aircraft to approach and follow an aircraft that was confirmed to be hijacked in order to assure positive flight following, report unusual observances, and aid search and rescue in the event of an emergency.^[1] The 9/11 Commission determined that on the morning of September 11, the FAA did not adequately notify NORAD of the hijackings of Flights 11, 175, 77 or 93 in time for escort aircraft to reach the hijacked flights.^[2] Notification of the hijacking of Flight 11 prompted the scrambling of two fighter jets from Otis Air National Guard Base, but they were not in the air until after Flight 11 had hit the North Tower. An erroneous FAA report of a hijacked plane heading towards Washington ("phantom Flight 11") prompted the scrambling of three more fighters from the 1st Fighter Wing at Langley Air Force Base, which due to "poor communications", ended up flying eastward, out to sea, instead of heading toward Washington, significantly delaying their arrival on the scene.^{[2] "}

Oh please don't get me started on September 11th.

[neverdie]

What exactly can a fighter jet do to help escort a plane with a disruptive passenger?

Absolutely nothing.

It's not like he had breached the cockpit door or anything.

I'm surprised Nuclear weapons wernt launched.

[billd766]

Is there a compromise order, yes or no? Is there a standing order, yes or no? Was the plane armed?

Without this information a fighter jet appearing in the sky is no more meaningful then UFO sightings.

Can/will the plane shoot the civilian airliner? Can it act autonomously if aggressive moves by airline? What is the playbook? I can't see why this 'deterrent' would be more meaningful then Obama's other defense postures.

Is there is a standing order? Yes.

Are the fighter aircraft armed? Yes.

Can/will the fighter aircraft shoot the civilian aircraft down? Yes they will, if they are ordered to do so.

Can they act autonomously? As a last resort, yes they can.

It is NOT a playbook but a reality since 9/11.

It is nothing to do with Obama and has been in force since 9/11.

It is true, I admit, I filter everything through this lens lately. I suppose my question should have clearly stated it was rhetorical- that I do not believe this president has a standing order that would permit a compromise shooting (shadowing airliner takes a nose dive toward city, etc). I cant prove it. You are correct. Just a sense that I cannot see it being in place.

Still, great answer. Thank you.

Edit: A 'playbook' is not derogatory toward anyone. This is a typical name used for the steps in a given defense scenario.

I can understand your thoughts but sadly the world has changed and certainly not for the better since the beginning of this century and probably during the last decade of the old one.

I truly believe that the President of the UK and also the PM of the UK and any other countries leaders that have this ruling will keep their leaders fully informed and if the occasion does arrive then the pilots will do their duty. If countries leaders are not available then there is always someone in the chain of command that will give the order.

[billd766]

Hopefully, in the last 15 years, the FAA has figured out how to lock a cockpit door so that it can't be accessed by some loon(s).

So in a situation where perhaps a stewardess is held at the point of a box cutter and the terrorists say that they will slash her throat open and kill her, and if that doesn't work they will work their way though the passengers starting with the children, what would YOU as the pilot and in command of the aircraft, actually DO?

The maniac can slice & dice the all passengers and staff. The pilot will not open that door.

I have to admit that I would not care to be the pilot in that position and have to make that decision.

[dhream]

One of those 'throw away the key' cases.

He's likely to pop up later and become mass shooter #1,357,346 and the usual hand wringing will ensue.

[losworld]

What a waste of taxpayer dollars its like sending the firefighters and their truck for a fender bender on the freeway.

[up2u2]

So does anyone actually have an intelligent reason as what 2 F-16 fighter jets can do about an unruly passenger that wont sit down? The cockpit had not been breached the plane was on course.

Has America totally lost its collective mind?

Well as America has the largest military in the world with Nuclear weapons the rest of the world would like to think they aren't totally bat crazy and have half a clue. Starting to become as laughable as Pyongyang at the moment. An idiot orange 'politician' on the loose and an idiotic military causing strife all around the world. America seems to have all the symptoms of a mental illness.

I was looking for an intelligent reason rather than mindless speculation. Still haven't read one yet.

Nah, you are just looking to be negative and are too obstinate to view things objectively or have a positive outlook.

I read this topic with interest as to what some numb nutz did to cause such a stir. I was then mildly entertained by the thought of what this bozo is now thinking once his buzz is wearing off and having to explain this one to the family and/or his employer. You on the other hand take a benign and mildly entertaining story and somehow use it to fuel a deep seeded vitriolic emotional problem that leads you down a path to nuclear weapons, all Americans are bat <deleted> crazy and display symptoms of mental illness. Okay. You are actually even more entertaining than the article itself.

I'll take that as 'Other than wild speculation I have absolutely no idea why F-16 were required'

[hawker9000]

What a waste of taxpayer dollars its like sending the firefighters and their truck for a fender bender on the freeway.

Pffft. It's a couple of unplanned flight hours, and will probably actually be considered a beneficial exercise - maybe even a few "readiness" checks in the block - for the pilots, ground crew, controllers and other personnel involved in the response, i.e., scramble & intercept. Commanders, Pentagon sponsors and their budgeteering games notwithstanding, something else somewhere in the flight hour quarterly plan will simply be cut back in compensation if necessary. You're just flailing for a way to try & pursue your agenda. And all the blather about shootdown authority is just hot air; it didn't happen - all the squealing about it is laughable. If it ever happens, you can get all crazy then.

[F430murci]

Well as America has the largest military in the world with Nuclear weapons the rest of the world would like to think they aren't totally bat crazy and have half a clue. Starting to become as laughable as Pyongyang at the moment. An idiot orange 'politician' on the loose and an idiotic military causing strife all around the world. America seems to have all the symptoms of a mental illness.

I was looking for an intelligent reason rather than mindless speculation. Still haven't read one yet.

Nah, you are just looking to be negative and are too obstinate to view things objectively or have a positive outlook.

I read this topic with interest as to what some numb nutz did to cause such a stir. I was then mildly entertained by the thought of what this bozo is now thinking once his buzz is wearing off and having to explain this one to the family and/or his employer. You on the other hand take a benign and mildly entertaining story and somehow use it to fuel a deep seeded vitriolic emotional problem that leads you down a path to nuclear weapons, all Americans are bat <deleted> crazy and display symptoms of mental illness. Okay. You are actually even more entertaining than the article itself.

I'll take that as 'Other than wild speculation I have absolutely no idea why F-16 were required'

Lol, it does not take a rocket scientist to realize there is a protocol whenever there is a potential passenger disturbance and threat on a commercial airliner.

The guy apparently said he had a gun, threatened the flight crew, made a threat against the plane, and would not leave the cockpit area. Whatever happened, the threats this guy made arose to the level of initiating fighter escort protocol. The fighter protocol is not to protect those inside the plane from the crazy passenger, but to protect those on the ground from having the plane used as a weapon ala 9/11.

Bat crazy, as you put it, would have been to shoot the plane down under the circumstances. Having a fighter protocol for threats against airliners in this day and age of all kinds of crazy Muslims and other mental defects wanting to cause mass murder is prudent and welcomed.

All is well that ends well, so why get all worked up about it?

[SiSePuede419]

Blimey! It's getting so terrorists can't even stand up and stretch their legs on long flights anymore, 555

[NovaBlue05]

Hopefully, in the last 15 years, the FAA has figured out how to lock a cockpit door so that it can't be accessed by some loon(s).

So in a situation where perhaps a stewardess is held at the point of a box cutter and the terrorists say that they will slash her throat open and kill her, and if that doesn't work they will work their way though the passengers starting with the children, what would YOU as the pilot and in command of the aircraft, actually DO?

The maniac can slice & dice the all passengers and staff. The pilot will not open that door.

I have to admit that I would not care to be the pilot in that position and have to make that decision.

There's no decision, As pilot, his job is to get the aircraft down at the next available secure landing site. As for the people in the back, you hope there is strength in numbers.

As for the F-16's, the pilots probably needed the flight time and would have been in the air one way or the other

Edited June 24, 2016 by NovaBlue05

[Berty100]

What exactly can a fighter jet do to help escort a plane with a disruptive passenger?

Shoot it down if the pilot were to lose control of the plane.

If the pilot lose control the plane will come down eventually, no need to shoot it down

[NovaBlue05]

What exactly can a fighter jet do to help escort a plane with a disruptive passenger?

Shoot it down if the pilot were to lose control of the plane.

If the pilot lose control the plane will come down eventually, no need to shoot it down

You don't see the difference between crashing in a field or water as opposed to a crowded urban environment?