So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[billd766]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

It's not a football match. I recall Nigel Farage said on the eve of the vote (when he thought they'd lost) that if they lost by a narrow margin, like 52-48, the fight would continue because that margin was insufficient. I quite agree, so you and your ilk should not be surprised when those that voted remain take the same stance ... we're just following Nigel's lead.

 

I think the reason that Brexiteers want to close down the debate is because they are scared of a national change-of-mind, something which is of course our democratic right. That's democracy in action, the right to campaign to reverse something you disagree with ... you'll just need to live with it, and hope that the three stooges, Liam, Boris and David, can deliver on their promises. I'm not hopeful they can. So what is done can be undone ... that's what worries you the most? 

 

Why don't you and all the Bremainers write to your respective MPs and demand another referendum instead of bleating doom and gloom all the time.

 

That is of course if you are eligible to vote in the UK.

 

I am.

Edited September 3, 2016 by billd766
to add extra text as an afterthought.

[GuestHouse]

56 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Why don't you and all the Bremainers write to your respective MPs and demand another referendum instead of bleating doom and gloom all the time.

 

That is of course if you are eligible to vote in the UK.

 

I am.

 

I have written to my MP, explaining why I believe the decision to sign or not sign Article 50 must be debated by Parliament.

 

The last time I wrote was on behalf of a British expat (a former constituent of my MP) in Thailand who was suffering mental illness and unable to deal with claiming his pension. My MP helped get this man his pension.

 

I have previously written to my MP regarding fai pensions, that while I am not not for many years yet effected, many of my friends in Thailand are. I note my MP has joined the cross party group that supports fair pensions.

 

Writing to MPs does get results, it does give MPs feedback on public sentiment, as do letters to newspapers and all forms of public debate.

 

Brexit meanwhile is unable even give a definition of what Brexit actually means.

 

Appart that is other than a very clear assocition with xenophobia.

 

 

[GuestHouse]

Duplicated post deleted

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2016 by GuestHouse

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, i claudius said:

 

Not in the least ,i am not worried , ,just tired of all the whining and whinging from the remainers who are praying that it will all go tits up so they can say"told you so" well if it does ,then feel free ,but until then ,,stop already

 

As I said, the desire to silence people is out of fear that the decision will be democratically overturned. So it might not be an "I told you so" ... just a democratic reversal.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

Why don't you and all the Bremainers write to your respective MPs and demand another referendum instead of bleating doom and gloom all the time.

 

That is of course if you are eligible to vote in the UK.

 

I am.

 

Why bother with another referendum? Let's see what the real terms of the exit will be and we can all vote on it in a General Election. And if what is on offer bears no resemblance to what was promised, the democratic will of the people will reject it.

 

I too am a registered voter.

 

 

 

 

[AlexRich]

23 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

I have written to my MP, explaining why I believe the decision to sign or not sign Article 50 must be debated by Parliament.

 

The last time I wrote was on behalf of a British expat (a former constituent of my MP) in Thailand who was suffering mental illness and unable to deal with claiming his pension. My MP helped get this man his pension.

 

I have previously written to my MP regarding fai pensions, that while I am not not for many years yet effected, many of my friends in Thailand are. I note my MP has joined the cross party group that supports fair pensions.

 

Writing to MPs does get results, it does give MPs feedback on public sentiment, as do letters to newspapers and all forms of public debate.

 

Brexit meanwhile is unable even give a definition of what Brexit actually means.

 

Appart that is other than a very clear assocition with xenophobia.

 

 

 

The people that are desperate to silence others remind me of somewhere? They know if that it ever goes to a vote again they will lose.  

[JB300]

I think one of 2 things will happen...

1. They'll delay pulling the trigger on Article 50 until towards the end of 2017/ early 2018 then after 2 years of negotiating make it a General Election issue whether to accept/leave or not

2. The EU will cave/collapse & return "Power" (most notably over immigration) back to the Sovereign states.

I hope it's #2 & will be watching the French & German elections closely to see if (after the kick in the nuts the UK gave) either of them prove to be the tipping point.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

Why don't you and all the Bremainers write to your respective MPs and demand another referendum instead of bleating doom and gloom all the time.

 

That is of course if you are eligible to vote in the UK.

 

I am.

I voted in person and I did not see anything on the ballot paper about leaving the single market or terminating free movement but many seem to think that is what they voted for. Even the brexit team are split on that issue.

Less than 2 percent margin can hardly be classed as a decisive majority and the ERS has effectively described the referendum campaign as a farce.

For the PM to press ahead on such a dubious result in her autocratic manner will do little for credibility. The whole issue is likely to find itself in the history books somewhere alongside the TSR2.

[MissAndry]

6 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I voted in person and I did not see anything on the ballot paper about leaving the single market or terminating free movement but many seem to think that is what they voted for. Even the brexit team are split on that issue.

Less than 2 percent margin can hardly be classed as a decisive majority and the ERS has effectively described the referendum campaign as a farce.

 

So what percentage do you think is decisive? And when you've decided that percentage, we'll go back and cancel every election win and commons vote that failed to reach that percentage.

Then you'll' need to decide what those failed decisions all mean. Another vote, a vote lost? How do you want to play it?

Edited September 3, 2016 by MissAndry

[sandyf]

8 hours ago, autanic said:

 

Border Controls are set by each Country. All the EU says, is EU Citizens have right to free movement. As the UK would be non-EU citizens, then Ireland like the UK now has the right to govern its own Immigration Policy.

This is at the heart of us Brexiteers have been saying. We can control Non-EU Migration, but it is undermined by EU migration, which we have no control over. You cannot say a Country controls its border, then go on to say but EU Citizens have free pass.

That is not true. External borders are managed by the member state but policy, training and supervision comes under the EU organisation FRONTEX.

[GuestHouse]

5 hours ago, MissAndry said:

Traveled in Europe for over 30 years, France, Italy and Spain, almost nobody I met spoke English.

Germany, Austria, and Switzerland around 30% of people I met spoke English.

 

EU had nothing to do with it.

 

I'm currently in central Italy (Umbria) and while I speak Italian my wife does not. She's not having manny problems conmunicating in english with the Italians we meet alongg the way.

 

Things have perhaps changed over the years.

[billd766]

56 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

I have written to my MP, explaining why I believe the decision to sign or not sign Article 50 must be debated by Parliament.

 

The last time I wrote was on behalf of a British expat (a former constituent of my MP) in Thailand who was suffering mental illness and unable to deal with claiming his pension. My MP helped get this man his pension.

 

I have previously written to my MP regarding fai pensions, that while I am not not for many years yet effected, many of my friends in Thailand are. I note my MP has joined the cross party group that supports fair pensions.

 

Writing to MPs does get results, it does give MPs feedback on public sentiment, as do letters to newspapers and all forms of public debate.

 

Brexit meanwhile is unable even give a definition of what Brexit actually means.

 

Appart that is other than a very clear assocition with xenophobia.

 

 

 

I wrote to my MP, Rebecca Pow, Tory, Taunton Deane asking her if she would support fair pension right for frozen pensions and all I got back, after 3 weeks war the Tory party line that there was no money available. Even though I had pointed out that if I moved to a country that did upgrade the pension it would be paid so there was money available. To be fair, she was a new entry MP and probably had little or no standing in the party..

[sandyf]

?

[sandyf]

49 minutes ago, MissAndry said:

 

So what percentage do you think is decisive? And when you've decided that percentage, we'll go back and cancel every election win and commons vote that failed to reach that percentage.

Then you'll' need to decide what those failed decisions all mean. Another vote, a vote lost? How do you want to play it?

I see, so referendums and general elections are the same, you learn something new every day. This info must be flawed.

 

" There are two types of referendum that have been held by the UK Government, pre-legislative (held before proposed legislation is passed) and post-legislative (held after legislation is passed). To date the previous three UK-wide referendums in 1975, 2011 and 2016 were all post-legislative. Referendums are not legally binding, so legally the Government can ignore the results; for example, even if the result of a pre-legislative referendum were a majority of "No" for a proposed law, Parliament could pass it anyway, because parliament is sovereign."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_Kingdom

[i claudius]

4 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

The people that are desperate to silence others remind me of somewhere? They know if that it ever goes to a vote again they will lose.  

 

 You wish

[autanic]

12 hours ago, JB300 said:

Your "argument" (too strong a word, maybe "Position" is better?) doesn't make sense as it's the absence of a border in Ireland that we're talking about.

Sure... If they put a border between ROI & NI either side of the "line" it would be the same as the "Border" in France but currently there is no border...

Where one Country ends another begins is a border, with or without a visible line. 

[autanic]

11 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

Brexiteers have no vision of the future and no concept of the future - their votes were based on a self-centred personal experience that apparently extended no further than that week.

 

Rebel Rebel

 

This is a load of Europeans singing in English - you can say good-bye to that over the next few years - and the role that English Language has to play in Europe.

 

It's not so much that we've LOST it...it is that Brexiteers have set out to destroy it.

 

I once encountered a unhelpful fella (thats being nice), on the road from Calais to Paris.  Unbelievably I could not find an actual sign saying paris this way. I pulled over and ask this gent for directions and he said, ask me in French and I will tell  you.  I replied, next time Germany invades, ask Spain for help. 

[autanic]

8 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

It's not a football match. I recall Nigel Farage said on the eve of the vote (when he thought they'd lost) that if they lost by a narrow margin, like 52-48, the fight would continue because that margin was insufficient. I quite agree, so you and your ilk should not be surprised when those that voted remain take the same stance ... we're just following Nigel's lead.

 

I think the reason that Brexiteers want to close down the debate is because they are scared of a national change-of-mind, something which is of course our democratic right. That's democracy in action, the right to campaign to reverse something you disagree with ... you'll just need to live with it, and hope that the three stooges, Liam, Boris and David, can deliver on their promises. I'm not hopeful they can. So what is done can be undone ... that's what worries you the most? 

 

 

The attempt to subvert Democracy is what scares me the most. 

 

1. The referendum was unbiased in its question, this agreed by all sides that the question neither lent to one side or the other.

2. All registered voters over the age of 18 could vote and 72.2% of the public did.

3. The remain side, tried scaremongering, doom saying, threats and eventually a rallying of the troops. Well it worked again in Scotland, but in England & Wales the will of people was very clear.

 

By Democratic Mandate, the majority of the British People want the UK to leave the European Union.

 

Thats it, couldn't be clearer.

 

Now we can  go on and on about lack of plan and what might or might not happen next, we just don't know. Thats really what we pay our Politicians to do.

We were asked to express a view by way of a referendum and by Christ, we did.

[autanic]

5 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

The people that are desperate to silence others remind me of somewhere? They know if that it ever goes to a vote again they will lose.  

 

Are you sure about that. You see the Establishment were pretty damn sure they would would have it there way, in the last vote. Even with all the scaremongering, threats and pleading, the nation still decided that Armageddon was better than staying in the EU. Now we know the sky hasn't fallen it, I believe more people that voted to remain would come over to the leave side.

 

But all this is academic, there isn't going to be a second referendum, we have an answer from the public and thats good enough for the Government, so we will make our plans to leave.

[GuestHouse]

10 minutes ago, autanic said:

 

 

The attempt to subvert Democracy is what scares me the most. 

 

We should all be far more concerned with the attempt to subvert Parliamentary Democracy.

 

The referrendum was called for one reason and one reason only, to forestall the Tory party falling appart.

 

What it wound up being was the use of out and out lies, racism and xenophobia to mobilise mass fear against Parliamentary Democracy.

 

Mob rule is not democracy.

 

Edited September 3, 2016 by GuestHouse

[autanic]

Sir, how can you even say that. You make it sound like we had no choice.

We did.

 

I knew which way I was likely to vote.

 

Do you think I believed for one second that the money paid to EU was going to be diverted to the NHS ?

Do you think that I believed that millions of Turks were about to bum rush the border ?

Do you think I believed the guff coming from Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson ?

 

No, the same way I didnt believe all the scaremongering from the Government, the money wasted on that little pamphlet they sent everybody.

 

I knew in my heart which way I wanted to vote and democracy won the day.

[GuestHouse]

7 minutes ago, autanic said:

 

Are you sure about that. You see the Establishment were pretty damn sure they would would have it there way, in the last vote. Even with all the scaremongering, threats and pleading, the nation still decided that Armageddon was better than staying in the EU. Now we know the sky hasn't fallen it, I believe more people that voted to remain would come over to the leave side.

 

But all this is academic, there isn't going to be a second referendum, we have an answer from the public and thats good enough for the Government, so we will make our plans to leave.

 

Tell us what you think Brexit will be?

 

Your Brexit leaders are unable to do, maybe you have an idea.

[GuestHouse]

23 minutes ago, autanic said:

Sir, how can you even say that. You make it sound like we had no choice.

We did.

 

I knew which way I was likely to vote.

 

Do you think I believed for one second that the money paid to EU was going to be diverted to the NHS ?

Do you think that I believed that millions of Turks were about to bum rush the border ?

Do you think I believed the guff coming from Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson ?

 

No, the same way I didnt believe all the scaremongering from the Government, the money wasted on that little pamphlet they sent everybody.

 

I knew in my heart which way I wanted to vote and democracy won the day.

 

The references to Muslems, immigrants and refugees amongst Brexit supporters suggests you are a bit of an oddity.

 

That you did not believe £millions for the NHS is just as well, it was a lie.

 

Unfortunately very many did believe it.

[cumgranosalum]

1 hour ago, autanic said:

 

I once encountered a unhelpful fella (thats being nice), on the road from Calais to Paris.  Unbelievably I could not find an actual sign saying paris this way. I pulled over and ask this gent for directions and he said, ask me in French and I will tell  you.  I replied, next time Germany invades, ask Spain for help. 

so that is the basis for Brexit? How ell thought out - a brilliant piece of logic! you might also check out Spain's role in WW2 - but that's the sort of ignorance one has come to expect.

Edited September 3, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

1 hour ago, autanic said:

 

Are you sure about that. You see the Establishment were pretty damn sure they would would have it there way, in the last vote. Even with all the scaremongering, threats and pleading, the nation still decided that Armageddon was better than staying in the EU. Now we know the sky hasn't fallen it, I believe more people that voted to remain would come over to the leave side.

 

But all this is academic, there isn't going to be a second referendum, we have an answer from the public and thats good enough for the Government, so we will make our plans to leave.

the nation still decided that Armageddon was better than staying in the EU - no, 52% of those who voted believed that 350 billion would go to the national health too!

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, i claudius said:

 

 You wish

 

You dread ;-)

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, autanic said:

 

Are you sure about that. You see the Establishment were pretty damn sure they would would have it there way, in the last vote. Even with all the scaremongering, threats and pleading, the nation still decided that Armageddon was better than staying in the EU. Now we know the sky hasn't fallen it, I believe more people that voted to remain would come over to the leave side.

 

But all this is academic, there isn't going to be a second referendum, we have an answer from the public and thats good enough for the Government, so we will make our plans to leave.

 

I don't think there will be a second referendum. But there will be a General Election ... and the terms of exit and what it actually means in practical terms will be clear. And if the people don't like it or don't believe it is in line with what they imagined Brexit to mean, it will be reversed ... that's also democracy in action. What's done can be undone.

 

As for 'establishment' ... you think Boris, Fox, Duncan Smith, Cash, the Daily Mail, The Sun, etc are anti-establishment? They are right wing Little Englanders, pro-establishment. And they want to undo the social contracts that we adhere to within the EU membership. The prolls voted for a right wing agenda ... let's see how protected the NHS and workers rights are two years out of the EU? A con job.

[i claudius]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

You dread ;-)

 

Why would i dread it , we would win with an even bigger majority .

[AlexRich]

5 minutes ago, i claudius said:

 

Why would i dread it , we would win with an even bigger majority .

 

No, you wouldn't. And as time progresses and the full implications of brevet become clear it will be even less attractive. That's why there are so many calls to silence remainers ... I notice demonstrations today in a number of cities ... we'll see more of that, and the legal challenge to May unilaterally triggering Article 50 will be interesting. Ironically, the last word on it's legality might be with the European Court. More fun and games ... something to look forward to, eh?

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, GuestHouse said:

 

We should all be far more concerned with the attempt to subvert Parliamentary Democracy.

 

The referrendum was called for one reason and one reason only, to forestall the Tory party falling appart.

 

What it wound up being was the use of out and out lies, racism and xenophobia to mobilise mass fear against Parliamentary Democracy.

 

Mob rule is not democracy.

 

 

"The referrendum was called for one reason and one reason only, to forestall the Tory party falling appart."

 

The quoted post is just a pack of lies. And the biggest lie is the one I've singled out above. The referendum on brexit has been mooted since the start of Cameron's premiership.

 

It's time for the quoted poster to start being honest with the forum, starting with him coming clean about his German nationality. But he will very likely try to get this post deleted in order to further his dishonest agenda .