So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

I've drawn the conclusion that Alex has a hard time getting his head around an internet discussion forum. No doubt he's a fast-talking and aggressive debater in real life. But what he's struggling with is that in verbal debate, unless your opponent has a photographic memory, you can get away with a lot of lies, mis-interpretations and mix-ups about who said what. In internet forum debate you cant, because people just go back and check what was previously writtten. Alex is, unfortunately, coming badly unstuck with this (some of the less generous-hearted might say he is making a complete berk out of himself ).

 

Making it up again? Tell us more about the wobbles ... is that a technical term? You simply lost the argument. 

 

 

 

 

[ljd1308]

Just now, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

Yes.

Fair enough, I disagree as do most experts(who know a lot more than me).

 

But I guess if that is the reason you voted to leave and there is no proof either way(at the moment) there is not much to discuss on that point.

 

However, if it did become abundantly clear that leaving would have an adverse affect on the economy,would you change your view on leaving the EU?

[Khun Han]

8 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

RyanAir and WPP announced some major new investments ... in Europe!

 

 

Yes, I'm sure their withdrawal from Moss Rygge is also down to brexit. I'm sure they can blame it on that. La Compagnie has, in announcing it's pull out from Luton. I'm sure that La Compagnie's particular business profile has had a 100% failure rate over a number of years ( MAXjet, EOS and Silverjet) is not much of a contributing factor.

[AlexRich]

2 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

No - you are confused - it is BREXIT SEASON  !!

 

Keep sniping though (as pointless as it is) if it helps you to get over the bitter taste of defeat.

 

You lost, suck it up and move on - ups and downs in the economy are a flea on an elephants ar5e in the context of the bigger picture.

 

Again, we're not talking about a football match. Again, you don't stop arguing your case if you lose an election ... so get used to people who wanted the UK to remain in the EU hold the deluded to account.

 

 

 

[Khun Han]

13 minutes ago, ljd1308 said:

So overall you actually think the UK economy will be better off out of the EU?

 

 

 

In the medum and long term, yes.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Khun Han

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

Yes, I'm sure their withdrawal from Moss Rygge is also down to brexit. I'm sure they can blame it on that. La Compagnie has, in announcing it's pull out from Luton. I'm sure that La Compagnie's particular business profile has had a 100% failure rate over a number of years ( MAXjet, EOS and Silverjet) is not much of a contributing factor.

 

The point is that investment is not increasing, it is falling back. Hard to deny.

 

[ljd1308]

Just now, Khun Han said:

 

In the medum and long term, yes.

I posted this in response to the same answer from another poster, but it applies here:

 

Fair enough, I disagree as do most experts(who know a lot more than me).

 

But I guess if that is the reason you voted to leave and there is no proof either way(at the moment) there is not much to discuss on that point.

 

However, if it did become abundantly clear that leaving would have an adverse affect on the economy,would you change your view on leaving the EU?

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, ljd1308 said:

Yes, the whole article was about them revising their view about entering a recession....they have amended that to state it will not quite get that far.

 

So are they also wrong when they say it will not get to the point where there is a recession?

 

Did you even bother to read the article linked by your fellow remainer ljd1308, or did you just read the negative prediction paragraph that he later quoted? Your credibility really is getting dangerously close to zero.

[ljd1308]

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Did you even bother to read the article linked by your fellow remainer ljd1308, or did you just read the negative prediction paragraph that he later quoted? Your credibility really is getting dangerously close to zero.

I assume you didn't mean to both quote me and reference me?

 

It also wasn't me who posted the link, I just quoted it.

Edited September 6, 2016 by ljd1308

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, ljd1308 said:

I posted this in response to the same answer from another poster, but it applies here:

 

Fair enough, I disagree as do most experts(who know a lot more than me).

 

But I guess if that is the reason you voted to leave and there is no proof either way(at the moment) there is not much to discuss on that point.

 

However, if it did become abundantly clear that leaving would have an adverse affect on the economy,would you change your view on leaving the EU?

 

Of course. I would admit that I was wrong. But I don't think I will be. And, so far I've been right, and all the naysaying so-called experts (that the remainers cling to for their arguments) have been wrong.

[Khun Han]

16 minutes ago, ljd1308 said:

I assume you didn't mean to both quote me and reference me?

 

It also wasn't me who posted the link, I just quoted it.

 

Yes, sorry, my mistake. Cletus posted the original link, and you quoted from it.

 

And it's this from Alex that I meant to quote, not you  :

 

"The point is that investment is not increasing, it is falling back. Hard to deny."

Edited September 6, 2016 by Khun Han

[ljd1308]

Just now, Khun Han said:

 

Of course. I would admit that I was wrong. But I don't think I will be. And, so far I've been right, and all the naysaying so-called experts (that the remainers cling to for their arguments) have been wrong.

So what it comes down to is providing you with irrefutable evidence that brexit will have a negative impact on the UK economy?

 

Will you then become a "remainer" and argue with "brexiters"?

 

I guess the challenge is now to provide you with that irrefutable evidence, I will look, but most likely only the future will tell.

And while I am working on it, my time machine isn't quite finished yet(waiting on a part stuck in customs), but as soon as it is I will pop 5 years into the future and come back to update everyone.

[AlexRich]

4 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Yes, sorry, my mistake. Cletus posted the original link, and you quoted from it.

 

"Your credibility really is getting dangerously close to zero". 

 

I take it you also meant yourself in the above quote?

 

 

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, ljd1308 said:

So what it comes down to is providing you with irrefutable evidence that brexit will have a negative impact on the UK economy?

 

Will you then become a "remainer" and argue with "brexiters"?

 

I guess the challenge is now to provide you with that irrefutable evidence, I will look, but most likely only the future will tell.

And while I am working on it, my time machine isn't quite finished yet(waiting on a part stuck in customs), but as soon as it is I will pop 5 years into the future and come back to update everyone.

 

In reality, short of inventing a time machine, all any of us can do is wait five years. We all have our belief systems about life, love, politics, economics, whatever, and it takes a lot of compelling evidence for any of us to radically change those belief systems.

[AlexRich]

9 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Of course. I would admit that I was wrong. But I don't think I will be. And, so far I've been right, and all the naysaying so-called experts (that the remainers cling to for their arguments) have been wrong.

 

So far you've been right with strawman arguments of what 'experts' or 'remainers' said that of course they didn't say.  

[nausea]

Talk. talk, talk, talk, talk. It's quite obvious to me that we are gonna havta implement something nobody wants. Every promise broken. The only good thing is it throws the UK out on the open seas, sink or swim. No longer in that cosy EU club. As May said, this ain't gonna be easy. A few of those guys in the UK who thought this was a shotcut to easy-street are in for a rude awakening.

[cumgranosalum]

nicely put....

 

 

[Khun Han]

^ On that last sentence, I'd just settle for getting my country back, and we'll deal with internal issues going forward.

[AlexRich]

He wants a country back that he doesn't live in? 

[AlexRich]

Just now, Khun Han said:

Alex, I think I just heard your mum calling you for your bedtime bath. Goodbye.

 

Just read on the BBC that UBS will move 1,500 jobs from London to Europe once the UK leaves the European Union. 

 

Goodnight.

 

 

 

 

[seedy]

Flaming post removed

[Linzz]

9 hours ago, JB300 said:

Erm simply put Ireland is breaking EU laws by giving preferential treatment to Apple (who reputedly paid 0.0005% tax) not only to the disadvantage of other companies in Ireland/Europe but also to other countries that are "playing by the rules".

Sorry, Remain or Exit, if what Ireland & Apple is accused off is true then it's just wrong & the only reason the Americans are kicking off is because it's less tax for them when Apple #Finally# (been dragging it's heels for years waiting for a more beneficial rate/treatment) repatriates the funds, US would be delighted if US companies paid zero corporate tax... Apart from in the US of course.

Edit: And the EU would have been happy if Apple paid the 12.5% tax (amongst if not the lowest in Europe) there's no suggestion that they have to match the highest rates in the EU

 

It spells doom for the EU to aggressively pursue  a one size fits all approach to taxation under the theory of "fairness." Other countries have appealed EU rulings. It is anti competitive  and autocratic to disallow nation members to sovereignly set their own tax rules and policy with companies individually in the country where that profit is earned. What is unfair or "wrong" about competition? Ireland has had this policy for years to attract foreign investment. Does the EU want to promote growth  employment and prosperity or depression and bankruptcy by controlling and dumbing down individual nation states? The  original intention was to create a United States of Europe to compete with the US. But in the US states normally compete with each other. The EU is trying to create a total dictatorship by unilaterally replacing Irish tax laws. Like I said, lucky escape for Britain.  By enforcing their political theories, bureaucratic ideologues are too disconnected from economic reality. Their manipulation of markets only spells global disaster.

[NanLaew]

9 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

Just read on the BBC that UBS will move 1,500 jobs from London to Europe once the UK leaves the European Union. 

 

Goodnight.

 

 

 

 

The UBS statement of intent to leave London first broke 56 days ago... try and keep up.

 

Should we really be worried that the world’s largest manager of private wealth a bunch of specialist advisors on tax dodging are threatening to leave Britain?

 

Don't forget your tinfoil hat before mummy tucks you in.

[JB300]

 

It spells doom for the EU to aggressively pursue  a one size fits all approach to taxation under the theory of "fairness." Other countries have appealed EU rulings. It is anti competitive  and autocratic to disallow nation members to sovereignly set their own tax rules and policy with companies individually in the country where that profit is earned. What is unfair or "wrong" about competition? Ireland has had this policy for years to attract foreign investment. Does the EU want to promote growth  employment and prosperity or depression and bankruptcy by controlling and dumbing down individual nation states? The  original intention was to create a United States of Europe to compete with the US. But in the US states normally compete with each other. The EU is trying to create a total dictatorship by unilaterally replacing Irish tax laws. Like I said, lucky escape for Britain.  By enforcing their political theories, bureaucratic ideologues are too disconnected from economic reality. Their manipulation of markets only spells global disaster.

Slightly disagree with you in that each country is (within reason, you wouldn't want a race to the bottom) free to set their own Tax rates, but the problem here is Ireland is being seen as granting a different Tax Rate to Apple than other companies which is classed as "Illegal" state aid (like Apple needs it).

[AlexRich]

8 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The UBS statement of intent to leave London first broke 56 days ago... try and keep up.

 

Should we really be worried that the world’s largest manager of private wealth a bunch of specialist advisors on tax dodging are threatening to leave Britain?

 

Don't forget your tinfoil hat before mummy tucks you in.

 

I doubt someone living in Thailand who is no longer in employment would be that concerned, so if you are using the Royal 'we', then probably no. Doesn't impact me either.  It's easy to make a bold move that doesn't impact on you personally ... like most of the old duffers who voted leave but won't be around to suffer its consequences.

 

The story did not break 56 days ago, it was published yesterday following a journalist interview with the CEO ... "new" news, not old - puts more meat on the bones of previous statements. Alongside the comments from Lloyds the day before it merely confirms that the UK is likely to lose well paying jobs in London ... less taxes, etc. Adds also to the Japanese government statement. But more specifically this would not be happening if the UK remained in the EU. 

 

An update for those that think nothing has changed from the vote. More to come. 

 

 

 

 

[i claudius]

I see that Goldman Sachs ,JP  Morgan and Morgan Stanley two of whom donated half a million quid each to the remain campaign and who said we were doomed if we left have now done a swift about turn , and now say that after all the sky will not fall in and a plague of locusts is not going to descend on the UK but that we are doing better than they thought we would , now come on remainers trot out the old" wait till we really leave then see what happens" yadda yadda yadda .

as for the "thousands of jobs will relocate " believe it when i see it .

Edited September 7, 2016 by i claudius

[Anthony5]

4 minutes ago, i claudius said:

I see that Goldman Sachs ,JP  Morgan and Morgan Stanley two of whom donated half a million quid each to the remain campaign and who said we were doomed if we left have now done a swift about turn , and now say that after all the sky will not fall in and a plague of locusts is not going to descend on the UK but that we are doing better than they thought we would , now come on remainers trot out the old" wait till we really leave then see what happens" yadda yadda yadda .

as for the "thousands of jobs will relocate " believe it when i see it .

You're doing better than they thought you would.

 

Has anything changed yet since the referendum?

[AlexRich]

41 minutes ago, i claudius said:

I see that Goldman Sachs ,JP  Morgan and Morgan Stanley two of whom donated half a million quid each to the remain campaign and who said we were doomed if we left have now done a swift about turn , and now say that after all the sky will not fall in and a plague of locusts is not going to descend on the UK but that we are doing better than they thought we would , now come on remainers trot out the old" wait till we really leave then see what happens" yadda yadda yadda .

as for the "thousands of jobs will relocate " believe it when i see it .

 

Did Goldman Sachs say the UK was doomed? Did they say there would be a plague of locusts?  When they saying the UK is doing less badly than they thought, it's not the same as saying everything is awesome. Time is not your friend.

 

Common theme among brexiteers, making things up in order to knock them down.

 

So when CEO's and governments warn that if the deal is not to their liking they will be forced to move jobs out of the country they are just bluffing? A CEO in a listed company has to be very careful with public statements ... So when WPP, Virgin Money, RyanAir, Easyjet, Japaneses companies, etc make these statements they actually mean it. They are all waiting and seeing, as of course we have not left the EU or triggered Article 50, but you can be sure they are contingency planning, as the Swiss bank confirmed yesterday.

 

I don't actually think that you will believe it when you see it. But I'll remind you when the time inevitably comes. 

 

 

 

 

 

[i claudius]

It must be so hard seeing things getting better remainers,but never mind keep hoping things will get worse

[AlexRich]

26 minutes ago, i claudius said:

It must be so hard seeing things getting better remainers,but never mind keep hoping things will get worse

 

The point that they made is that things were worse as they would have been had the vote gone the other way, but not as bad as they expected. We've still got Article 50 to look forward too, negotiation leaks, etc ... and the clear warning from business about actions they will take should the deal not be to their liking. 

 

I'll keep you posted.