So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[Ricardo]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

This has privately occurred to me too, as has the thought that the British isles (All of it!) might one day be better off becoming a US state. If that happened we would eventually make an impact there but not in our lifetime...

 

I guess that's another thread? :)

 

I thought that Brexit-Land was becoming a wholly-owned subsidiary of the P.R.C. ?

[AlexRich]

On 29 September 2016 at 1:29 PM, Khun Han said:

 

"No government wants to be accused of being hypocritical"

 

We were discussing how a bailout of Deutsche Bank would be interpreted by the German electorate during the forthcoming general election. If you think that loss of German face over breaking EU rules is going to be the vote swinger, then all I can say is that your fervour for remaining is affecting your judgement. The only arguments at the hustings will be about whether or not the bailout is/was value for money, and whether or not the government should be bailing out fat cat bankers: it's the money that will be the focus of debate.

 

You carry on believing that time is on your side of the argument, and I'll carry on believing it's on mine. The evidence is certainly on mine. Bluster from European politicians is on yours.

 

This issue for Germany is not about money ... the German public will not want to bailout a bank ... whether it is 40m Euro or £40 bn Euro ... and the German government will lose votes and have a problem with European partners like Italy who would like to bail out their own banks but are prevented from doing so.

[Scott]

A few inflammatory posts have been removed.   I suggest you respond in a civil manner.  

[chiang mai]

3 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

 

Life is a bitch ain't it.

 

I retired at 50. Are you still slogging away 

 

 

 

I'm not sure why TVF  continues to allow this nonsense, it's not constructive debate, it's not helpful and it's overly aggressive.

[SgtRock]

34 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

I'm not sure why TVF  continues to allow this nonsense, it's not constructive debate, it's not helpful and it's overly aggressive.

 

Awww diddums.

 

You mean like the post that I am responding to ? Full of on topic constructive debate 

 

Anyway, I will refer you to post 2115 onwards by the poster I responded to and then come back and tell me about constructive debate.

 

The bitter remoaners are still not capable of constructive debate. When they continue to throw unsubstatiated and erroneous assumptions, they will get it returned in spades.

 

You have the ability to not read the thread. So kindly get your facts straight before attempting to have a dig at me.

 

Just to keep it on topic

 

It would appear that another report ridicules the experts forecasts of immediate doom and gloom if the vote was for Brexit

 

Quote

UK services sector defies gloomy expectations as GDP grows by 0.7%

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/30/uk-economy-grows-by-07-in-second-quarter

[chiang mai]

17 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

Awww diddums.

 

You mean like the post that I am responding to ? Full of on topic constructive debate 

 

Anyway, I will refer you to post 2115 onwards by the poster I responded to and then come back and tell me about constructive debate.

 

The bitter remoaners are still not capable of constructive debate. When they continue to throw unsubstatiated and erroneous assumptions, they will get it returned in spades.

 

You have the ability to not read the thread. So kindly get your facts straight before attempting to have a dig at me.

 

Just to keep it on topic

 

It would appear that another report ridicules the experts forecasts of immediate doom and gloom if the vote was for Brexit

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/30/uk-economy-grows-by-07-in-second-quarter

 

Perhaps you think it's nearly intelligent debate but I can guarantee you that very very  few others think likewise, as evidenced by the immaturity of bickering responses, poster labelling and personal vendetta's seen thus far. But hey ho, if you're bored and it turns you on, go for it, I'll go find some wet paint that needs watching, far more enlightening and mentally challenging!

[autanic]

Back on track. 

 

So what did the Brexit Supporters gain ?

 

Well as a Brexit Supporter I have compiled a little list of what I have think are the winners and loser of voting in the EU Referendum.

 

Changes that have happened

 

1. Removal of David Cameron as Prime Minister.

2. Removal of George Osbourne as Chancellor.

3. Real debate regarding the future of the UK, how we define ourselves, how we want to trade and how we find our place in the world.

4. No real drop in FTSE 100/300 companies stock values

5. Slight correction in Pound Sterling

6. Rise in Racism, Anti-Semetic Attacks, Islamaphobia, intolerance of Foreigners especially from Eastern Europe.

7. Rise in Nationalism.

8. A pathological dislike of European Institutions and EU leaders.

9. A desire to get on with Brexit (Trigger article 50)

10. A mood of optimism for the future of the UK, with regards to trade.

 

Many of the people I speak, are not concerned with the common market as has been suggested on this forum. There is no appetite to accept anymore immigration, if that means paying tariffs to access the single market then so be it. 

 

There is one point I would like to add from people I speak with and that is if the cost of goods and services increase from not being a part of the common market, then they are happy to look elsewhere in order to purchase those products and services.

 

 In other words, if the cost of buying a Volkswagen Golf made in Germany, where the emissions tests have previously been falsified increases because of a tariff or buying a Toyota from Japan with no tariff, then you are going to see a lot more Japanese cars being sold in the UK.

 

It is laughable to think that Europe sells us far more products than we sell Europe and that they will impose a tariff on the trade.  All this is doing is increasing tariff revenue from the trade deficit. So we get more money in incoming tariffs that we pay in outgoing tariffs, surely if this becomes a problem for business then a Tariff return like VAT return will be simply introduced.

 

This was the only stick Europe though that they could bash the UK with and it actually ends up being a carrot.

 

Deutsche Bank is going to collapse, no doubt there. Unless Angela Merkel can bail them out. According to EU rules she cannot do this, Italy has been prevent from doing the same with one its banks.

The EU simply does not function when problems arise, the UK made the right decision on June 23rd and if you ask me do I regret my decision to vote leave.

 

The answer is a firm Hell No. Good Bye Europe, Hello World.

[elliss]

5 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

The good friday agreement is intertwined with the EU, and Scotlands devolution act states any laws enacted can be incompatible with EU laws. I am sure there will be a work around 

 

                 John McDonnnell ,   he who pulls the Labour party/Corbyn strings .

                  His previous and recorded  statement ,  the IRA should be honoured .

                   The enemy within , proud to be british ,??  those were the days.

[AlexRich]

What did Brexit supporters gain?

[A[

£350m injection per week into the NHS?

Unfettered access to the EU market without accepting freedom of movement?

Amazing new trade deals outside the EU?

Maintenance of "passport" rights for financial institutions?

 

OR

None of the above?

 

Answer: B ... none of the above.

[AlexRich]

What did Brexit supporters gain?

[A[

£350m injection per week into the NHS?

Unfettered access to the EU market without accepting freedom of movement?

Amazing new trade deals outside the EU?

Maintenance of "passport" rights for financial institutions?

 

OR

None of the above?

 

Answer: B ... none of the above.

[AlexRich]

What did Brexit supporters gain?

[A[

£350m injection per week into the NHS?

Unfettered access to the EU market without accepting freedom of movement?

Amazing new trade deals outside the EU?

Maintenance of "passport" rights for financial institutions?

 

OR

None of the above?

 

Answer: B ... none of the above.

[Khun Han]

6 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

Awww diddums.

 

You mean like the post that I am responding to ? Full of on topic constructive debate 

 

Anyway, I will refer you to post 2115 onwards by the poster I responded to and then come back and tell me about constructive debate.

 

The bitter remoaners are still not capable of constructive debate. When they continue to throw unsubstatiated and erroneous assumptions, they will get it returned in spades.

 

You have the ability to not read the thread. So kindly get your facts straight before attempting to have a dig at me.

 

Just to keep it on topic

 

It would appear that another report ridicules the experts forecasts of immediate doom and gloom if the vote was for Brexit

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/30/uk-economy-grows-by-07-in-second-quarter

 

What needs to be remembered is that these discussions became confrontational because remainers on here were in the habit of referring to brexiters along the lines of 'stupid', 'ignorant', 'racist', 'xenophopic', etc. That was always going to get brexiters bristling, and we've responded on kind. Funny how the initiators of this kind of behaviour are always the first to start whinging and complaining about spoiled discussions and offtopic when they get it back up them  .

[Khun Han]

8 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

This issue for Germany is not about money ... the German public will not want to bailout a bank ... whether it is 40m Euro or £40 bn Euro ... and the German government will lose votes and have a problem with European partners like Italy who would like to bail out their own banks but are prevented from doing so.

 

You are being quite silly about this, and I can only assume it's because if you concede the obvious, you lose the whole thrust of your 'Germany will make financial sacrifices in order to punish brexit Britain' POV.

 

I will repeat: electorates the world over are not in the slightest bit interested in the 'rules' aspect of this type of dilemma; they are only ever interested in how it affects them personally, with a bit of small-heartedness toward anyone who gains from having public money thrown at them. It's all about the money.

[chiang mai]

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

What needs to be remembered is that these discussions became confrontational because remainers on here were in the habit of referring to brexiters along the lines of 'stupid', 'ignorant', 'racist', 'xenophopic', etc. That was always going to get brexiters bristling, and we've responded on kind. Funny how the initiators of this kind of behaviour are always the first to start whinging and complaining about spoiled discussions and offtopic when they get it back up them  .

 

These discussions become confrontational because YOU keep labelling people as being one thing or another and keep pointing the finger of responsibility for everything under the sun, nothing is ever your fault, is it! Most people have moved on from the Brexit Remain labels, you and Rock seem not to have done so. Perhaps if you did and stopped blaming others for all things, the debate would be more constructive.

Edited September 30, 2016 by chiang mai

[NanLaew]

17 hours ago, SgtRock said:

And the hits just keep on coming for Deutsche Bank

 

 

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37516805

 

Shares fall below the euro 10 that many fear was the point of no return for Deutsche Bank

 

Tick Tock.

DB is doing a horse trade with the US DoJ. DB's financial stresses are firmly grounded in its heavy involvement with the US sub-prime lending debacle that was enabled by the US DoJ's own lack of oversight. Thus the 'fine' will be reduced and it will be business as usual.

 

Now, let's get back to serious, Brexit-related issues instead of hijacking a German banks totally unrelated and momentary misfortune as part of the the UK's life after Brexit.

[Ricardo]

We're all (or mostly) expats in Thailand, and TV is just somewhere to chat & exchange opinions, it would be nice if we could get along better, I try not to start a fight just because I think someone on the next bar-stool is ill-informed, I just 'Ignore' them.

 

And there has been an immediate effect with the drop in the value of the pound, which basic-economics suggest will translate to higher input-prices on imported-goods, whether for manufacturing or on the high-street. It's held for three months now, so it wasn't just a temporary-blip.

 

The other immediate effect was political, resulting in a new PM & a leadership-contest within Labour, among other things.

 

I also think people in the UK are now happy to have had their say, in an important decision, rather than the usual 'we're powerless' attitude to politics & our own poo-yais who usually run things without our input.

 

But there may well be further real-effects, for better or worse,  once we actually commence exit-negotiations and again after we actually do Brexit, but those haven't yet really started.  So it is surely premature to write the decision off as having had little/no effect, just yet.

 

This story (and thread) will run & run.  It should be fun watching !

[autanic]

8 hours ago, AlexRich said:

What did Brexit supporters gain?

[A[

£350m injection per week into the NHS?

Unfettered access to the EU market without accepting freedom of movement?

Amazing new trade deals outside the EU?

Maintenance of "passport" rights for financial institutions?

 

OR

 

None of the above?

 

Answer: B ... none of the above.

 

Alex, are we living in a Parallel Universe to each other. I like the other 17 Million other people do not care about the items on your list. We never believed them anyway. It was the media telling you, that we cared about them and you believed the media. Ordinary people could not have given less of a poop.  We just wanted an end to uncontrolled immigration.  Why would anyone care about Passport rights for financial institutions, unless you worked in one, which the 99% of people don't.

 

I think you need to have a lie down and think about the reality and your perception of reality Alex.

[autanic]

6 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

You are being quite silly about this, and I can only assume it's because if you concede the obvious, you lose the whole thrust of your 'Germany will make financial sacrifices in order to punish brexit Britain' POV.

 

I will repeat: electorates the world over are not in the slightest bit interested in the 'rules' aspect of this type of dilemma; they are only ever interested in how it affects them personally, with a bit of small-heartedness toward anyone who gains from having public money thrown at them. It's all about the money.

 

Let me spell the obvious. Angela Merkel might as well bait out DB as she will lose any election she competes in for kicking open the immigration door. She is in a lose lose situation.

[AlexRich]

20 minutes ago, autanic said:

 

Alex, are we living in a Parallel Universe to each other. I like the other 17 Million other people do not care about the items on your list. We never believed them anyway. It was the media telling you, that we cared about them and you believed the media. Ordinary people could not have given less of a poop.  We just wanted an end to uncontrolled immigration.  Why would anyone care about Passport rights for financial institutions, unless you worked in one, which the 99% of people don't.

 

I think you need to have a lie down and think about the reality and your perception of reality Alex.

 

Your 'perception' and 'reality' argument has yet to be tested ... as people in the UK don't know what 'Brexit' will be in reality.

 

As for the media ... are you referring to Daily Mail, The Sun, The Express and Telegraph? As previously stated, time will tell what the impact of this vote will be ... and my perception may be closer to reality than yours. 

 

 

[AlexRich]

7 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

What needs to be remembered is that these discussions became confrontational because remainers on here were in the habit of referring to brexiters along the lines of 'stupid', 'ignorant', 'racist', 'xenophopic', etc. That was always going to get brexiters bristling, and we've responded on kind. Funny how the initiators of this kind of behaviour are always the first to start whinging and complainng about spoiled discussions and offtopic when they get it back up them  .

 

Especially those 'big babies' who put people on ignore lists when the debate gets tough! You are the thinnest skinned person on here! 

[i claudius]

What did Brexit supporters gain ? well the chance to bait the remainers on here constantly

[rockingrobin]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-hammond-idUKKCN1202NJ

 

"We’ve got to be clear about one thing – there's an implicit term of the mandate we received from the British people," Hammond said in an interview with the newspaper.

"It may not have been stated explicitly but it's implicit. And that is that they do not want to see the economy suffer."

 

Is the referendum being slowly hi jacked , the terms implicit is a worry

[Orac]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-hammond-idUKKCN1202NJ
 
"We’ve got to be clear about one thing – there's an implicit term of the mandate we received from the British people," Hammond said in an interview with the newspaper.
"It may not have been stated explicitly but it's implicit. And that is that they do not want to see the economy suffer."
 
Is the referendum being slowly hi jacked , the terms implicit is a worry

Does seem a bit odd. The government/remain camp made it clear prior to the vote that in their opinion, wether correct or not, leaving the EU would be bad for the economy yet people voted to leave the very opposite of what he is now saying.

[JB300]

 
Alex, are we living in a Parallel Universe to each other. I like the other 17 Million other people do not care about the items on your list. We never believed them anyway. It was the media telling you, that we cared about them and you believed the media. Ordinary people could not have given less of a poop.  We just wanted an end to uncontrolled immigration.  Why would anyone care about Passport rights for financial institutions, unless you worked in one, which the 99% of people don't.
 
I think you need to have a lie down and think about the reality and your perception of reality Alex.

Think I'm in a different parallel universe to both you & Alex as I (& a Damn sight more than 1% of people) do care what happens to the Financial services / UK economy

There are over 2Million people #directly# working in financial services in the UK & it #directly# accounts for approx 12% of the nations GDP.

Take this away & you will solve the Immigrant crisis overnight, the country will be so poor everybody will be trying to migrate to another country for a better standard of living.

[rockingrobin]

10 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

Does seem a bit odd. The government/remain camp made it clear prior to the vote that in their opinion, wether correct or not, leaving the EU would be bad for the economy yet people voted to leave the very opposite of what he is now saying.

 

 

Add in the following

 

Romanian roofers and Polish plumbers now join bankers in the list of occupations ministers have suggested will be unhindered by new promised restrictions of freedom of movement.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-sajid-javid-eastern-european-plumbers-builders-roofers-a7340211.html

 

 

[Khun Han]

6 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

These discussions become confrontational because YOU keep labelling people as being one thing or another and keep pointing the finger of responsibility for everything under the sun, nothing is ever your fault, is it! Most people have moved on from the Brexit Remain labels, you and Rock seem not to have done so. Perhaps if you did and stopped blaming others for all things, the debate would be more constructive.

 

Says the poster who, a few hours ago, 'liked' a short one-sentence post that labelled brexiters on this thread "ignoramuses". And then berated the poster it was directed at for being "aggressive" when he replied in kind  .

 

How about YOU start behaving yourself in these discussions first, and how about you start make a few posts berating the continued aggressive, condescending posts from your fellow remainers (instead of 'liking' their posts )? You never know, you might at least not show yourself up as a total hypocrite.

[Khun Han]

Irish goverment and NI executive appear to have won over PM May on Irish borders issue:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37513463

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

Add in the following

 

Romanian roofers and Polish plumbers now join bankers in the list of occupations ministers have suggested will be unhindered by new promised restrictions of freedom of movement.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-sajid-javid-eastern-european-plumbers-builders-roofers-a7340211.html

 

 

 

Can't access the FT article with the original Savid Javid interview, but the Indy article states that he said that "European builders will still be able to come and work in the UK" and that he "said the Government would not make recruitment more difficult than the status quo for the construction industry.", and quotes him: “Whether it’s construction or any other sector, we don’t want to make it any more difficult for those industries than it is.”. I'm not sure that can be interpreted as open house on immigration?

 

Half of the Indy article is about John Longworth's appointment as head of Leave Means Leave! Why do journalists mash up different stories like this? Poor journalism in my opinion, and all the 'papers are guilty of it at times.

[Khun Han]

Not sure how much of PM May's ear these people have (probably not much), but some interesting ideas being discussed:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37517901

[rockingrobin]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/singapore-startup-wb21-to-leave-london-for-berlin-after-brexit-1475251242