Juncker – “No renegotiation”

[Guest]

Brexit will

• free GB from German diktat
• free GB from leftist government in Brussel on which voters have no power or way to change
• stop this Muslim uncontrolled immigration
• open exit strategy to all others wanted to do it
• give a strong message to EU of what is wrong with it
• Eu, Germany and Brussels will have to reconsider their "democratic" agendas totally unpopular with the voters in all countries
• EU - Brussels --Germany will have a chance to seriously consider what is happening with Islamisation of EU
• hopefully be a precursor to new United Europe with political freedom for all its members and no central diktat
• mu hope is that the reverse process starts against these bolshevik-socialists-communists-minority groups with agendas to finally get to the Greco-Roman roots on which traditions all European country are formed and exists for centuries and which traditions-law-knowledge-emancipation-culture and common religious traditions are being challenged by primitive and uneducated hordes of islamic illegal immigrants and rapists.

How lovely of you to post these points, which meaning you are not likely to understand what those mean. Very lovely indeed.

[ilostmypassword]

Brexit will

• free GB from German diktat
• free GB from leftist government in Brussel on which voters have no power or way to change
• stop this Muslim uncontrolled immigration
• open exit strategy to all others wanted to do it
• give a strong message to EU of what is wrong with it
• Eu, Germany and Brussels will have to reconsider their "democratic" agendas totally unpopular with the voters in all countries
• EU - Brussels --Germany will have a chance to seriously consider what is happening with Islamisation of EU
• hopefully be a precursor to new United Europe with political freedom for all its members and no central diktat
• mu hope is that the reverse process starts against these bolshevik-socialists-communists-minority groups with agendas to finally get to the Greco-Roman roots on which traditions all European country are formed and exists for centuries and which traditions-law-knowledge-emancipation-culture and common religious traditions are being challenged by primitive and uneducated hordes of islamic illegal immigrants and rapists.

...common religious traditions are being challenged by primitive and uneducated hordes of islamic illegal immigrants and rapists.

Does this mean that the rapists are in the UK legally? Are these traditionalhome-grown Greco-Roman rapists?

[ilostmypassword]

Brexit will

• free GB from German diktat
• free GB from leftist government in Brussel on which voters have no power or way to change
• stop this Muslim uncontrolled immigration
• open exit strategy to all others wanted to do it
• give a strong message to EU of what is wrong with it
• Eu, Germany and Brussels will have to reconsider their "democratic" agendas totally unpopular with the voters in all countries
• EU - Brussels --Germany will have a chance to seriously consider what is happening with Islamisation of EU
• hopefully be a precursor to new United Europe with political freedom for all its members and no central diktat
• mu hope is that the reverse process starts against these bolshevik-socialists-communists-minority groups with agendas to finally get to the Greco-Roman roots on which traditions all European country are formed and exists for centuries and which traditions-law-knowledge-emancipation-culture and common religious traditions are being challenged by primitive and uneducated hordes of islamic illegal immigrants and rapists.

How lovely of you to post these points, which meaning you are not likely to understand what those mean. Very lovely indeed.

Maybe you should read your post #120.

[bkkcanuck8]

Mr Juncker really doesn't get it. Maybe this will help :

Juncker knows that brexit encourages the populations of other member countries to start thinking about leaving the EU.

It makes sense therefore (from the EU's point of view) to start negotiations immediately, and make it clear that the EU is v harsh on those countries that dare to leave.

I doubt the EU can force the UK into invoking article 50 before the UK is good and ready. But perhaps I'm wrong?

I think you are correct and for once the ball is firmly in the UK court and they don't like it hence the child-like response.

Political and economic uncertainty are enemies of the economy. As such the EU is right, England should invoke article 50 as soon as possible and rush to finish the "negotiations" of the breakup as soon as possible to minimize the damage that will occur to the economy.

[Linesy]

Mr Juncker really doesn't get it. Maybe this will help :

Juncker knows that brexit encourages the populations of other member countries to start thinking about leaving the EU.

It makes sense therefore (from the EU's point of view) to start negotiations immediately, and make it clear that the EU is v harsh on those countries that dare to leave.

I doubt the EU can force the UK into invoking article 50 before the UK is good and ready. But perhaps I'm wrong?

I think you are correct and for once the ball is firmly in the UK court and they don't like it hence the child-like response.

Political and economic uncertainty are enemies of the economy. As such the EU is right, England should invoke article 50 as soon as possible and rush to finish the "negotiations" of the breakup as soon as possible to minimize the damage that will occur to the economy.

I don't care anymore, I'm watching the football.

[JAG]

Please no need to do anything they want us to go and as soon as possible. They are not stopping us they are not even offering free cakes if we stay they have asked us to go as soon as possible. Don't people on here ever look at the news?

I think the very fast EU response to suggest to get the divorce over with has surprised many people. It did surprise at least me.

Also the talks about Scotland leaving UK and possibility of Northern Island to do so as well.

It's like everybody are saying "You let the populists take over your country, let's see how it works for you."

It's also one way to say "Now, seriously. Go back and redo your referendum. Find the loophole if necessary. Beg your queen to nullify the vote.".. or we both get hurt, but as you by now already realised, we'll be fine to go forward together or separately.

Well yes - the EU "management team" has quite a record of telling countries whose referendum results don't fit with their plans to go away and hold another one don't they. If memory serves they did it to France, Ireland and The Netherlands?

I suppose it is all part of the inherently democratic nature of the EU ....

[Guest]

Brexit will

• free GB from German diktat
• free GB from leftist government in Brussel on which voters have no power or way to change
• stop this Muslim uncontrolled immigration
• open exit strategy to all others wanted to do it
• give a strong message to EU of what is wrong with it
• Eu, Germany and Brussels will have to reconsider their "democratic" agendas totally unpopular with the voters in all countries
• EU - Brussels --Germany will have a chance to seriously consider what is happening with Islamisation of EU
• hopefully be a precursor to new United Europe with political freedom for all its members and no central diktat
• mu hope is that the reverse process starts against these bolshevik-socialists-communists-minority groups with agendas to finally get to the Greco-Roman roots on which traditions all European country are formed and exists for centuries and which traditions-law-knowledge-emancipation-culture and common religious traditions are being challenged by primitive and uneducated hordes of islamic illegal immigrants and rapists.

How lovely of you to post these points, which meaning you are not likely to understand what those mean. Very lovely indeed.

Maybe you should read your post #120.

I re-read my post. Was there a an conflict of ideas?

[ilostmypassword]

Please no need to do anything they want us to go and as soon as possible. They are not stopping us they are not even offering free cakes if we stay they have asked us to go as soon as possible. Don't people on here ever look at the news?

I think the very fast EU response to suggest to get the divorce over with has surprised many people. It did surprise at least me.

Also the talks about Scotland leaving UK and possibility of Northern Island to do so as well.

It's like everybody are saying "You let the populists take over your country, let's see how it works for you."

It's also one way to say "Now, seriously. Go back and redo your referendum. Find the loophole if necessary. Beg your queen to nullify the vote.".. or we both get hurt, but as you by now already realised, we'll be fine to go forward together or separately.

Well yes - the EU "management team" has quite a record of telling countries whose referendum results don't fit with their plans to go away and hold another one don't they. If memory serves they did it to France, Ireland and The Netherlands?

I suppose it is all part of the inherently democratic nature of the EU ....

I think your memory doesn't serve you well at all. The EU doesn't have the authority to tell its member nations to hold referendums. Not only that, but France held only one referendum regarding the EU. It was on the adoption of an EU constitution and it voted "no". The same goes for the Netherlands. Twice Ireland voted no on referendums and then, after the EU made concessions, Ireland then voted yes. Hardly sounds like coercion to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_related_to_the_European_Union

[Richard W]

"There isn't a predicted date, it depends on when article 50 is invoked - and then its 2 years later."

But it's two years minimum, then.

Two years later is the default. By agreement, it can be earlier or later.

Yep, totally agree, time to take a breather before moving on, and I am pretty sure is does not say how long you have to invoke article 50.

Indeed, Article 50 says nothing about a referendum. A government could, if its laws allow, invoke Article 50 without any democratic process.

Not one of those three "Presidents" has been elected. The British (indeed the European) electorate have never even had the opportunity to elect them to their various "Presidencies".

The sight of that choleric looking unelected Luxembourger wagging his finger and telling us to go has convinced me that, despite the possible short or even mid term effect on my finances we reached the right decision of Thursday.

They just have rather small electorates.

President of the Parliament: Elected by the Parliament, just like a speaker in many other systems, and in practice not very different from how a British prime minister is chosen - the controlling coalition chooses him, taking it in turns between the two groupings in the coalition at the moment.

President of the European Council: Elected by the European Council, i.e. the heads of government of the member states.

President of the Commission: Elected (or appointed, if you prefer), by the European Council, but must be acceptable to the European Parliament.

Firstly, the big one. How would the various visas work? You can't just overnight expect each of the remaining EU countries to write up new requirements for UK PP holders. I've no doubt it'll still be easy to go to all these countries, you'll get a stamp in your passport with 1/2/3 month entry stamp. (how they name it will be a country by country thing) Surely That is going to take time. We might find that some countries like Holland and Belgium might allow the visa stamp to cover both countries (?) (again, i want to highlight i'm clueless about all this)

That's where Schengen may provide an economy of scale. As a first approximation, its very simple. All they have to do is to decide to treat British citizens like any other British national. It's not as bad as it sounds - British nationals who are not citizens are in the same visa-free category as US citizens, the Japanese, Canadians, Australians and Malaysians.

Some school trips form the UK could become awkward. Indian pupils from the UK, for example, will require visas for most countries, though they would be free. At present, if they are lawfully resident in the UK, they just go through as though they were EU citizens.

[bkkcanuck8]

Why on earth would Brit. govt. want to invoke article 50 immediately?? The EU is still reeling from the shock and 'demanding' that the UK do exactly as you say - so that they can frighten other EU countries that are considering whether they should leave too.

The Brit. govt. is right (although possibly for the wrong reasons, hoping that they can re-negotiate terms and call for another referendum).

From the Brits' point of view it makes far more sense to let individual EU countries make it clear that they need exports to the UK market, and waiting for things to calm down - before invoking article 50 and starting negotiations.

Yep, totally agree, time to take a breather before moving on, and I am pretty sure is does not say how long you have to invoke article 50. I think Juncker misunderstood the British Public...we voted not to bow to his every whim...so he can wait until we are ready

Uncertainty does more damage.... The UK has democratically voted to leave the union, it is a done deal unless you are going to void the democratic will of the people.... Was not one of the reasons to leave the EU was the undemocratic machinations of the EU central government etc.? All invoking article 50 does is start the clock ticking so that if for some reasons the sides cannot come to agreement the UK gets to walk away regardless?

Uncertainty will weight on the economies of both the EU and UK until things are finalized. Companies that have to make decisions that are partially based on what the system is going to be in the future have to sit around doing nothing...

The only reason not to invoke article 50 is because someone things they can figure a way to thwart the will of the people that voted in the referendum.

Stop the dawdling and finish the job.

[Khun Han]

Two years later is the default. By agreement, it can be earlier or later.

Yep, totally agree, time to take a breather before moving on, and I am pretty sure is does not say how long you have to invoke article 50.

Indeed, Article 50 says nothing about a referendum. A government could, if its laws allow, invoke Article 50 without any democratic process.

Not one of those three "Presidents" has been elected. The British (indeed the European) electorate have never even had the opportunity to elect them to their various "Presidencies".

The sight of that choleric looking unelected Luxembourger wagging his finger and telling us to go has convinced me that, despite the possible short or even mid term effect on my finances we reached the right decision of Thursday.

They just have rather small electorates.

President of the Parliament: Elected by the Parliament, just like a speaker in many other systems, and in practice not very different from how a British prime minister is chosen - the controlling coalition chooses him, taking it in turns between the two groupings in the coalition at the moment.

President of the European Council: Elected by the European Council, i.e. the heads of government of the member states.

President of the Commission: Elected (or appointed, if you prefer), by the European Council, but must be acceptable to the European Parliament.

Firstly, the big one. How would the various visas work? You can't just overnight expect each of the remaining EU countries to write up new requirements for UK PP holders. I've no doubt it'll still be easy to go to all these countries, you'll get a stamp in your passport with 1/2/3 month entry stamp. (how they name it will be a country by country thing) Surely That is going to take time. We might find that some countries like Holland and Belgium might allow the visa stamp to cover both countries (?) (again, i want to highlight i'm clueless about all this)

That's where Schengen may provide an economy of scale. As a first approximation, its very simple. All they have to do is to decide to treat British citizens like any other British national. It's not as bad as it sounds - British nationals who are not citizens are in the same visa-free category as US citizens, the Japanese, Canadians, Australians and Malaysians.

Some school trips form the UK could become awkward. Indian pupils from the UK, for example, will require visas for most countries, though they would be free. At present, if they are lawfully resident in the UK, they just go through as though they were EU citizens.

Because the UK was never a signatory to the Schengen Agreement, UK residents without British passports have never had freedom of movement in the Schengen area. There is a small amount of local discretionary entry allowance, but a Schengen visa is normally required. There will be no change when the UK leaves the EU.

[Richard W]

Because the UK was never a signatory to the Schengen Agreement, UK residents without British passports have never had freedom of movement in the Schengen area. There is a small amount of local discretionary entry allowance, but a Schengen visa is normally required. There will be no change when the UK leaves the EU.

School trips get special dispensation - see Wikipedia. The UK has a similar policy for school trips from the EEA.

[pitrevie]

Please no need to do anything they want us to go and as soon as possible. They are not stopping us they are not even offering free cakes if we stay they have asked us to go as soon as possible. Don't people on here ever look at the news?

I think the very fast EU response to suggest to get the divorce over with has surprised many people. It did surprise at least me.

Also the talks about Scotland leaving UK and possibility of Northern Island to do so as well.

It's like everybody are saying "You let the populists take over your country, let's see how it works for you."

It's also one way to say "Now, seriously. Go back and redo your referendum. Find the loophole if necessary. Beg your queen to nullify the vote.".. or we both get hurt, but as you by now already realised, we'll be fine to go forward together or separately.

Well yes - the EU "management team" has quite a record of telling countries whose referendum results don't fit with their plans to go away and hold another one don't they. If memory serves they did it to France, Ireland and The Netherlands?

I suppose it is all part of the inherently democratic nature of the EU ....

I don't know how many times this has to be said or even if you never read any of the regular news items that have been prominent in the last day or so.

The EU have accepted the democratic vote of the UK and have stated there will be no further offer no renegotiation of terms to induce us to stay.

The six ministers of the countries that formed the EU have also stated that they accept the decision and every EU official pronouncement has stated the same.

They are unanimous they want us to leave and to do so as soon as possible.

For some reason those were were so eager to get out do not understand what OUT means and what AS SOON AS POSSIBLE means and are trying to blame the EU for the foot dragging.

I sincerely hope that Boris does get appointed as PM and is in charge of the negotiations to take us out. That way they will not be able to make excuses in the future for whatever transpires.

[dick dasterdly]

Please no need to do anything they want us to go and as soon as possible. They are not stopping us they are not even offering free cakes if we stay they have asked us to go as soon as possible. Don't people on here ever look at the news?

I think the very fast EU response to suggest to get the divorce over with has surprised many people. It did surprise at least me.

Also the talks about Scotland leaving UK and possibility of Northern Island to do so as well.

It's like everybody are saying "You let the populists take over your country, let's see how it works for you."

It's also one way to say "Now, seriously. Go back and redo your referendum. Find the loophole if necessary. Beg your queen to nullify the vote.".. or we both get hurt, but as you by now already realised, we'll be fine to go forward together or separately.

Well yes - the EU "management team" has quite a record of telling countries whose referendum results don't fit with their plans to go away and hold another one don't they. If memory serves they did it to France, Ireland and The Netherlands?

I suppose it is all part of the inherently democratic nature of the EU ....

I don't know how many times this has to be said or even if you never read any of the regular news items that have been prominent in the last day or so.

The EU have accepted the democratic vote of the UK and have stated there will be no further offer no renegotiation of terms to induce us to stay.

The six ministers of the countries that formed the EU have also stated that they accept the decision and every EU official pronouncement has stated the same.

They are unanimous they want us to leave and to do so as soon as possible.

For some reason those were were so eager to get out do not understand what OUT means and what AS SOON AS POSSIBLE means and are trying to blame the EU for the foot dragging.

I sincerely hope that Boris does get appointed as PM and is in charge of the negotiations to take us out. That way they will not be able to make excuses in the future for whatever transpires.

Exactly (re. emboldened part) and it brings us back to the heart of this thread.

It will be v interesting to see how this plays out. The majority of Brit. politicians prefer to stay in the EU and the EU is losing a big contributor to their funds.

Will the EU stick to their guns on "no renegotiation" and will the UK govt. accept this and, in their own time, invoke article 50?

[bkkcanuck8]

Will the EU stick to their guns on "no renegotiation" and will the UK govt. accept this and, in their own time, invoke article 50?

The referendum was not about seeking a mandate to renegotiate the EU, it was about leaving. If the EU is going to reform.... it does not need the input of a country that has already voted to leave.

[dick dasterdly]

Will the EU stick to their guns on "no renegotiation" and will the UK govt. accept this and, in their own time, invoke article 50?

The referendum was not about seeking a mandate to renegotiate the EU, it was about leaving. If the EU is going to reform.... it does not need the input of a country that has already voted to leave.

I think you miss my point?

[bkkcanuck8]

Will the EU stick to their guns on "no renegotiation" and will the UK govt. accept this and, in their own time, invoke article 50?

The referendum was not about seeking a mandate to renegotiate the EU, it was about leaving. If the EU is going to reform.... it does not need the input of a country that has already voted to leave.

I think you miss my point?

Maybe, but the UK has voted to leave.... that was the referendum, that was the result.... there is NO mandate for renegotiation.

There are two sides to the negotiation - one the party leaving.... and one the parties that remain.... it makes no sense for Britain to have any further input on anything to do with EU's future. It makes no sense for Britain to have a say on both sides of the table. At least in Canada Quebec stated during it's referendum that they are seeking "sovereignty association" and a mandate for renegotiating it's relationship with the rest of Canada. The UK's was Remain or Leave....

[dick dasterdly]

I've just realised that my point wasn't v clear - sorry.

Basically my point is that IMO both the EU and Brit. politicians want the UK to stay in the EU - so I'm interested to see whether the EU sticks to its "no negotiation" statement, and whether the Brit. govt. decides to hold another referendum, or comes out with another reason why they don't eventually invoke article 50.

[Caps]

Will the EU stick to their guns on "no renegotiation" and will the UK govt. accept this and, in their own time, invoke article 50?

The referendum was not about seeking a mandate to renegotiate the EU, it was about leaving. If the EU is going to reform.... it does not need the input of a country that has already voted to leave.

I think you miss my point?

Maybe, but the UK has voted to leave.... that was the referendum, that was the result.... there is NO mandate for renegotiation.

There are two sides to the negotiation - one the party leaving.... and one the parties that remain.... it makes no sense for Britain to have any further input on anything to do with EU's future. It makes no sense for Britain to have a say on both sides of the table. At least in Canada Quebec stated during it's referendum that they are seeking "sovereignty association" and a mandate for renegotiating it's relationship with the rest of Canada. The UK's was Remain or Leave....

I understand what you are saying, but Juncker has already made it clear that we are still in the EU until the day that the Article 50 has finished....2 years plus. So if we are in then we are in and if we still have to obey rules which is fine then we should still have a say. Or not have to comply with anything new coming in after Article 50 has been invoked, including millions more in bail outs. So we are either still in or we are not, and I hope someone has the b@!!s to tell them that

Edited June 26, 2016 by Caps

[bkkcanuck8]

I think you miss my point?

Maybe, but the UK has voted to leave.... that was the referendum, that was the result.... there is NO mandate for renegotiation.

There are two sides to the negotiation - one the party leaving.... and one the parties that remain.... it makes no sense for Britain to have any further input on anything to do with EU's future. It makes no sense for Britain to have a say on both sides of the table. At least in Canada Quebec stated during it's referendum that they are seeking "sovereignty association" and a mandate for renegotiating it's relationship with the rest of Canada. The UK's was Remain or Leave....

I understand what you are saying, but Juncker has already made it clear that we are still in the EU until the day that the Article 50 has finished....2 years plus. So if we are in then we are in and if we still have to obey rules which is fine then we should still have a say. Or not have to comply with anything new coming in after Article 50 has been invoked, including millions more in bail outs. So we are either still in or we are not, and I hope someone has the b@!!s to tell them that

Have a say on the year to year budgets etc.... but not on it's future.... Why do you think Britain should have any say on the future of something they will not be there to fund or participate in??

[Caps]

I think you miss my point?

Maybe, but the UK has voted to leave.... that was the referendum, that was the result.... there is NO mandate for renegotiation.

There are two sides to the negotiation - one the party leaving.... and one the parties that remain.... it makes no sense for Britain to have any further input on anything to do with EU's future. It makes no sense for Britain to have a say on both sides of the table. At least in Canada Quebec stated during it's referendum that they are seeking "sovereignty association" and a mandate for renegotiating it's relationship with the rest of Canada. The UK's was Remain or Leave....

I understand what you are saying, but Juncker has already made it clear that we are still in the EU until the day that the Article 50 has finished....2 years plus. So if we are in then we are in and if we still have to obey rules which is fine then we should still have a say. Or not have to comply with anything new coming in after Article 50 has been invoked, including millions more in bail outs. So we are either still in or we are not, and I hope someone has the b@!!s to tell them that

Have a say on the year to year budgets etc.... but not on it's future.... Why do you think Britain should have any say on the future of something they will not be there to fund or participate in??

Yes, they are making it clear that we still have to uphold EU policies etc etc, fine, not a problem but it has to be all or nothing, they shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose what we can and can not do during the 2 years plus we have left Because I am positive they will still be after the yearly billions of pounds subscription fees and a help bailing out Greece again soon

[pitrevie]

I think you miss my point?

Maybe, but the UK has voted to leave.... that was the referendum, that was the result.... there is NO mandate for renegotiation.

There are two sides to the negotiation - one the party leaving.... and one the parties that remain.... it makes no sense for Britain to have any further input on anything to do with EU's future. It makes no sense for Britain to have a say on both sides of the table. At least in Canada Quebec stated during it's referendum that they are seeking "sovereignty association" and a mandate for renegotiating it's relationship with the rest of Canada. The UK's was Remain or Leave....

I understand what you are saying, but Juncker has already made it clear that we are still in the EU until the day that the Article 50 has finished....2 years plus. So if we are in then we are in and if we still have to obey rules which is fine then we should still have a say. Or not have to comply with anything new coming in after Article 50 has been invoked, including millions more in bail outs. So we are either still in or we are not, and I hope someone has the b@!!s to tell them that

Have a say on the year to year budgets etc.... but not on it's future.... Why do you think Britain should have any say on the future of something they will not be there to fund or participate in??

Which is why Juncker and every other EU official wants this over and done with as quickly as possible. Then they will be rid of the UK and can move forward without having the UK whinging and complaining about everything and wanting special treatment and opt outs. There is no delay on the EU side but it does appear that the urgency to get our 350 million pounds a week back to spend on the NHS is not so important any longer.

As for the wishful thinking that the EU will collapse without its most troublesome member, the EU were there long before the UK joined and it will still be there long afterwards.

My guess is that the day Farage walks out of the EU Parliament for the last time they will throw a party.

[Dagnabbit]

Junker has egg on his face. He wants the UK to suffer in order to scare off other countries from having their own exits.

Trouble is, the real boss - Merkel has other ideas, hence her summoning Europeans PMs to mother Germany to tell them how its really going to happen.

[MissAndry]

the EU were there long before the UK joined and it will still be there long afterwards.

Yeah, but they had to change the name from 'The Third Reich' last time we voted OUT.

[Khun Han]

Junker has egg on his face. He wants the UK to suffer in order to scare off other countries from having their own exits.

Trouble is, the real boss - Merkel has other ideas, hence her summoning Europeans PMs to mother Germany to tell them how its really going to happen.

I suspect they all want to make things difficult for the UK. The 'front men' have been summoned to get them on the same page as the boss.

This is one of many good reasons why the UK needs to be dynamic and think outside the box in it's trade agreements going forward. With less suckling on the EU tit, there will be no looking back.

[Khun Han]

the EU were there long before the UK joined and it will still be there long afterwards.

Yeah, but they had to change the name from 'The Third Reich' last time we voted OUT.

A bit coarse, but essentially true. Edited June 26, 2016 by Khun Han

[JAG]

the EU were there long before the UK joined and it will still be there long afterwards.

Yeah, but they had to change the name from 'The Third Reich' last time we voted OUT.

A bit coarse, but essentially true.

I've certainly heard it expressed in a subtler manner.

[katana]

Juncker, one too many at lunch.

[JetsetBkk]

Juncker, one too many at lunch.

Silly old fool.

[bkkcanuck8]

Junker has egg on his face. He wants the UK to suffer in order to scare off other countries from having their own exits.

Trouble is, the real boss - Merkel has other ideas, hence her summoning Europeans PMs to mother Germany to tell them how its really going to happen.

It is not Juncker who is causing the pain -- it is all in the hands of England.... The fact that he has to actually try and beg the English to actually follow through is a rather sad statement of the situation. The blame squarely rests in England.