Australian lawyer gives new hope to Burmese men convicted of the Koh Tao murders

[stephenterry]

[quote name="Bkk Brian" pos

If you read previous articles, you have no need to belong to any authority to make a complaint, all you need is the permission of the accused.

APLAC does have standing,very serious standing and wrote on behalf of Ian to get a reply last time, twice.

The letter will have at least two consequences. That of the above intervention by the APLAC and a kick up the backside to the defence lawyers to get involved in the complaint process.

Continuing pressure needs to be applied to stand any remote chance of justice.

However, I don't think that Thailand and its officialdom will EVER kow tow to outsiders.

[JLCrab]

APLAC can maybe de-certify the laboratories but that would seem to have limited bearing on the current case. The Defense has submitted their Appeal. If they have a complaint, it should be in there.

[Thaidream]

It doesn'tmatter if they had liters of DNA. Without a chain of custody log and a secured chain of custody system- none of it is admissible in court- thus it never existed and could never be used to convict anyone. There is no reasonable proof the B2 committed this crime. Regardless, the current Appeal will not set them free even if they win- the Prosecutor will file with the Supreme Court and vice versa. They will not know their final fate for years.

[ScotBkk]

This is Thailand.

We don't need "help" from abroad.

I am sure the Thai prosecutor couldn't care less about this.

It's pretty obvious where your loyalties lay.

The Australian lawyer should be commended for counter attacking the 'Thai powers that be' him requesting intact professional documentation, files etc etc to beget the B2 a fair chance to be exonerated.

However, we all know with all the good intent in the world it'll never happen in a country riddled with corruption. Saving face here is Paramount at all costs albeit to be protected by smoke screens & mirrors, lies, scapegoats - its Thailand.

Just saying ........

[williamgeorgeallen]

I think they should just do a face saving exercise for all sides, arrange a prisoner exchange of sorts and send these boys back home.

No. That would mean confirming their wrongful conviction. These young men deserve to be completely exonerated and compensated.

they should be set free. if i was in their position i would be happy enough with that. facing death for the next several years with almost no hope, hard to imagine.

[Khun Han]

I have seen the above Imprint website before and Mr Yarwood writes on his Twitter page:

Interested in humanitarian causes, media freedom, ending slavery, landmine clearance (& world peace,just like Miss World contestants) On the shoulders of giants

However the Imprint website suggests that it is more an educational venture working with local NGO's and is not primarily involved in legal representation in criminal and/or civil litigation.

And? Who implied it did involve criminal litigation? It does imply that just because you are involved in real estate that does not bar you from other projects, many lawyers do it very successfully and as far as I can see Ian has been selfless in has cause for the pursuit of justice. Those attacking him are what? For what reason? This is not about the messenger it is about the message. That message now needs to be taken up by the defense team

It's SOP for these goons to try to personally discredit anyone who poses a threat to the cover up. Wouldn't surprise me if they have a spread sheet they refer to before posting.

[JLCrab]

The appeals Court can render a verdict of not guilty without any prejudice as to whether the B2 were indeed guilty as charged. The RTP - with some influential person's consent -- could then say , regardless of the Appeals Court decision, we still believe that we arrested and prosecuted the right persons and we will expend zero effort to find others who might be responsible.

While I am not a lawyer, I do think that maybe if Mr. Yearwood, in addressing the Samui Prosecutor he did not address him as he would after calling someone a total idiot, he might get some different results.

[stander]

Ian Yarwood is a PROPERTY lawyers he has already recieved a reply from the thai labs which he has not shown to the public. instead he showed the original letter he sent to the lab. He is not part of the defense, just another egocentric trying to get his 5 minutes of fame.

Exactly, Yarwood is a real estate lawyer, with no experience in criminal law, a charlatan.

What difference does it make he is doing a lot more than you and your mate disco. and has enough knowledge in this case to show millions of people why the b2 shouldn't be behind bars.

'he is doing a lot more than you' What is it that you would like me to do a lot more of? After all I believe justice has been served and they are guilty as charged.

[renaissanc]

In related news Aussie lawyer sued for deformation and libel by Thailands ministry of science

News Update: The Aussie lawyer has been sentenced to death for disputing the court's decision, and the sentence of the two Burmese has been doubled to 2 consecutive death sentences.

[Aj Mick]

From what I understand of Mr Yarwood's letter, it's main purpose is to do the courtesy of informing the Koh Samui Prosecutor that a complaint has been filed with the Bureau of Laboratory Quality Standards, the body which apparently accredited the lad responsible for handling, testing and making DNA reports that were used in evidence in the trial. He would at least like acknowledgment of having received the letter reasonably promptly.

Beyond that it is really up to the prosecutor, but it seems possible that if the complaint is upheld it could affect the credibility of DNA evidence in the prosecutors response to the appeal.

[DiscoDan]

According to this, Suzanne Buchanan of Samui times had managed to secure the B2s release before MWRN turned up, yet more BS ?

https://www.facebook.com/heidi.anna.2/posts/1202940909737821?pnref=story

[Bkk Brian]

According to this, Suzanne Buchanan of Samui times had managed to secure the B2s release before MWRN turned up, yet more BS ?

https://www.facebook.com/heidi.anna.2/posts/1202940909737821?pnref=story

Who knows, its an unverified facebook post that has nothing to do with this thread or the topic being discussed, or are you out of ammo attacking Ian Yarwood?

[Bkk Brian]

If you read previous articles, you have no need to belong to any authority to make a complaint, all you need is the permission of the accused.

APLAC does have standing,very serious standing and wrote on behalf of Ian to get a reply last time, twice.

The letter will have at least two consequences. That of the above intervention by the APLAC and a kick up the backside to the defence lawyers to get involved in the complaint process.

Continuing pressure needs to be applied to stand any remote chance of justice.

However, I don't think that Thailand and its officialdom will EVER kow tow to outsiders.

Exactly Stephen, thats how I see it. Nobody knows when the appeal session will be convened, in the interim a complaint be it from Ian or the defense that highlights the seriously flawed DNA evidence presented will serve to officially recognize the weaknesses in the evidence. If APLAC back the complaint then this will have serious repercussions for the Thai labs. The subsequent appeal hearing will then need to take those serious flaws into account.

Its interesting to note that the lab that tested the 3 cigarette butts was not regulated. The accused DNA was said to be found on one or two of them. Its also interesting to note that the accused bought L&M in the shop, only one of the butts was L&M the other two were Marlboro. The butts are no longer available for re testing surprise surprise.

[elgordo38]

I think they should just do a face saving exercise for all sides, arrange a prisoner exchange of sorts and send these boys back home.

Yes they have outlived their usefulness. The BIB had a field day with the investigation looking like heroes in all respects. Cameras flashed the BIB was patted on the back the silver tray loaded with money passed around so let them go on a technicality they are no longer of any use their year of infamy has now passed. Quite a letter this lawyer wrote to long a read to keep my attention gee as I age my attention span diminishes.

[Norvid]

Now the prosecutor is in direct trouble and this is good. Corruption at this level is criminal and shouldn't be allowed. Just wonder what other resources could be engaged to force this travesty of justice to be positively resolved.

[scorecard]

He already is sidelined. He is a lawyer from Australia with no standing to submit anything to the Court in this case. If the SamuiTimes editor had not chosen to print his open letter, you probably would not hear about it. The official formal complaint of the Defense is called an Appeal and they have already submitted it with four 30-day extension granted by the Court. they don't get no Mulligans whether Mr. Yarwood chooses to write a letter or not.

BTW to an earlier comment by the just above Member, if the Headman really wanted to have his name kept out of all this, he could have arranged to have the victim's bodies dumped on someone else's front porch before anybody who was not in on the arrangement would've known the difference.

"BTW to an earlier comment by the just above Member, if the Headman really wanted to have his name kept out of all this, he could have arranged to have the victim's bodies dumped on someone else's front porch before anybody who was not in on the arrangement would've known the difference...."

Well that's a nice armchair comment way after the event.

Do you know, very accurately how much time he had to do anything?

Do you know in total and specific detail what other events were taking place at the exact time / in the immediate small time frame before other people noticed things / people started running everywhere / police / other agencies were on the scene?

Which in reality made it very difficult / impossible for the head man to take some other actions etc., etc., " before anybody who was not in on the arrangement would've known the difference."

Bottom line - you can't possibly know an accurate answer to these questions.

[Norvid]

Oh, when the real hunt for mafia/criminals/killers take place in Koh Tao? Who are the protectors of those guilty ones? Is Thai junta able to unravel the case? Can one day the world can say Thailand did it right, or always will linger a smell of corruption, false accusations, lies, false statements, improper interviews, forced testimonies, and all other illegal activities conducted by representatives of Thai law.

[IslandLover]

DiscoDan, on 25 Jun 2016 - 14:37, said:

According to this, Suzanne Buchanan of Samui times had managed to secure the B2s release before MWRN turned up, yet more BS ?

https://www.facebook.com/heidi.anna.2/posts/1202940909737821?pnref=story

Oh deary me. This facebook post is pure sarcasm from HA, over the top and sensational as usual, as I know there is no love lost between all the people alluded to in that post. I take it with a huge pinch of salt (or should that be sour lemons?) and would advise everyone else to do the same. As one commenter suggested, why can't these people work together? Nothing is more damaging to this case than the purported supporters of those convicted of the Koh Tao murders being at loggerheads with each other.

[sweatalot]

tried to post -- but I got the message that I'm not allowed to post in this topic

- what does that mean?

[sweatalot]

was it because I mentioned that there might be the real killers still around?

[Basil B]

I think they should just do a face saving exercise for all sides, arrange a prisoner exchange of sorts and send these boys back home.

Give them a pardon and hope they will go home quietly and everybody will forget, ...until the next murders on Koh Tao.

[arrowsdawdle]

I think they should just do a face saving exercise for all sides, arrange a prisoner exchange of sorts and send these boys back home.

And lose face? What planet are you on? Instead, they will just shuffle the lab exec as a sacrificial lamb and show governing bodies that Thailand has taken necessary steps to get the lab in order.

[Konaboy1]

If the court doesn't want to see the letter, it will just put it aside by the waste bucket. I once went to Thai Imm (after losing a passport and then applying for a new one). I had a letter from my consulate (which took me days to get and 1,000's of baht in expenses) which I handed over to the top Thai official. He took a half-second glance at it, and rudely set it aside with a frown, as if it meant nothing.

The letter from the lawyer re; the KT case: will it be translated to Thai? Thai officials won't spend one second trying to read anything in English.

In the bigger picture: Thai officialdom (including the PM and justices and RTP) don't want to deviate from their ironclad plan: to scapegoat the B2 and continue to insist on zero mention of the Headman's people. The appeal process will result in scrapping the death penalty for the B2, but will instead keep the scapegoats in jail for a long time.

after 10 years I left Thailand with my 5 year old son for USA

[JLCrab]

He already is sidelined. He is a lawyer from Australia with no standing to submit anything to the Court in this case. If the SamuiTimes editor had not chosen to print his open letter, you probably would not hear about it. The official formal complaint of the Defense is called an Appeal and they have already submitted it with four 30-day extension granted by the Court. they don't get no Mulligans whether Mr. Yarwood chooses to write a letter or not.

BTW to an earlier comment by the just above Member, if the Headman really wanted to have his name kept out of all this, he could have arranged to have the victim's bodies dumped on someone else's front porch before anybody who was not in on the arrangement would've known the difference.

"BTW to an earlier comment by the just above Member, if the Headman really wanted to have his name kept out of all this, he could have arranged to have the victim's bodies dumped on someone else's front porch before anybody who was not in on the arrangement would've known the difference...."

Well that's a nice armchair comment way after the event.

Do you know, very accurately how much time he had to do anything?

Do you know in total and specific detail what other events were taking place at the exact time / in the immediate small time frame before other people noticed things / people started running everywhere / police / other agencies were on the scene?

Which in reality made it very difficult / impossible for the head man to take some other actions etc., etc., " before anybody who was not in on the arrangement would've known the difference."

Bottom line - you can't possibly know an accurate answer to these questions.

Whoever might have noticed anything of any substance is by all accounts here already on the payroll so what would be the difference? If he can put fear in the minds of Supreme Court justices in Bangkok as was posted on here why could he not shut up anyone who might have noticed anything as to the above?

The collusion as suggested on here already involves scores of persons paid to not have seen anything or to say anything or to say what they are told to say so what would be a few more?

[JLCrab]

I think they should just do a face saving exercise for all sides, arrange a prisoner exchange of sorts and send these boys back home.

Give them a pardon and hope they will go home quietly and everybody will forget, ...until the next murders on Koh Tao.

Yes -- and for cold-blooded psychopathic killers on the loose they have been behaving themselves quite well for going on two years especially with all those hot blonds arriving near-daily on Koh Tao.

[stephenterry]

APLAC can maybe de-certify the laboratories but that would seem to have limited bearing on the current case. The Defense has submitted their Appeal. If they have a complaint, it should be in there.

I'd bet a dollar to a dime that no way would the Defence include a complaint in their appeal. That's about as remote as the US winning the next world cup, be it cricket or football (soccer). Complaints are abhorrent to Thai society, you should know that.

[JLCrab]

APLAC can maybe de-certify the laboratories but that would seem to have limited bearing on the current case. The Defense has submitted their Appeal. If they have a complaint, it should be in there.

I'd bet a dollar to a dime that no way would the Defence include a complaint in their appeal. That's about as remote as the US winning the next world cup, be it cricket or football (soccer). Complaints are abhorrent to Thai society, you should know that.

That's why the complaint was submitted by someone who has no standing in the case -- what the heck else was he going to do?

[stephenterry]

I think they should just do a face saving exercise for all sides, arrange a prisoner exchange of sorts and send these boys back home.

And lose face? What planet are you on? Instead, they will just shuffle the lab exec as a sacrificial lamb and show governing bodies that Thailand has taken necessary steps to get the lab in order.

The sentiment, I agree with, AD, but the execution of the solution would not see the light of day, IMO. Not at this juncture, maybe next generation.

[Moonsterk]

What can you do if you're a defense lawyer and the report says "inclusion"? Well, before you try any last-minute strategies of claiming your client left their DNA at the scene by accident or during a previous visit (as you might with fingerprints), you'll probably want to obtain your own test, but this has the same self-incrimination effect as if you put your client on the stand, and in any event, further DNA testing will only cause delay and additional expense.

About the only thing you can do is attack the lab for its (lack of) quality assurance and proficiency testing, or use a "Chewbacca defense" (thanks to the South Park TV show for this phrase) and try to razzle-dazzle the jury about how complex and complicated the other side's evidence or probability estimates are.

http://web.archive.org/web/20061009203657/http://faculty.ncwc.edu/TOConnor/425/425lect15.htm

He's not a defense lawyer, he's a property lawyer residing in Perth and in no way connected with the defense team. Mr Yarwood might refrain from his constant and blatant publicity stunts, (speaking of which- glad to see Bachelor degree "International expert.." Jane Taupin is no where to be seen lately.)

While I have no doubts as to the good intentions of the defenders, do they not realize these dissing actions will simply seal the coffin doors on the fate of the convicted?

It's as if some have never dealt with the Thai mentality outside a resort reception staff and the property lawyer in Perth is a good example of this.

Andy Hall, on his personal FB page has asked Mr property lawyer stop hassling the defense team and direct energy elsewhere. Guess writing this baffle 'em with BS article suffices for that endeavor.

What is an unaccredited, completely biased, cut and paste web site op ed even doing in the news threads?

[boomerangutang]

they should be set free.

More than that; they should be compensated Bt.1,000 each, for each day they have been knowingly and wrongly incarcerated.

Additionally, every person who contributed to the cover-up (even peripherally, such as DNA technicians) should be prosecuted and, if found guilty, sentenced to the max. Anyone who gave or received funds/gifts to further the cover-up should be fined quadruple the amounts, and be sentenced severely for obstructing justice.

The reasons there is no investigation of the crime suspects (those who were initially pegged as being the most likely perps) along with officials implicated in cover-ups, is similar to reasons why there is no investigation of the fake bomb detectors. Guilty people aren't going to investigate themselves, are they?