Bill Gates on Thailand's hanging internet and hanging wires

[Mystified]

About stealing; how do all the street venders power their stalls?

The fact that all kinds of cables lay on the stainless steel railing of some crossover bridges makes me wonder how long until it grounds out and blows the slippers off everybody walking on them.

I took pictures when I 1st got to see the mess because the only time I've seen that much spaghetti was after a storm. ?

[jabis]

Whenever my shower 7.0 starts to spontaneously send indecent images to my wife I'll upgrade - meanwhile the telemetry-data that my laptop is trying to send in gigabytes, I'd rather just walk naked x)

[jacko45k]

Our power goes out at least twice a week. Plus sometimes half the house has power and the other half doesn't. I will not touch the power in this house to fix. Let someone come and do it.

That would be unlikely unless you are fed from 2 separate sources or phases.

More likely you have reduced voltage and some devices still manage to work with it.

[thesetat2013]

In the US power cuts following wind storms are quite common because the power lines are above ground. Compare with Germany where all the lines are buried and power cuts are apparently unknown. This is what happens when a rich country decides to neglect its common commitment to infrasctructure of which the power lines are only one example among many.

Germany is both relatively small and quite wealthy. Both are relevant factors when "A new 138 kV overhead line costs approximately $390,000 per mile as opposed to $2 million per mile for underground (without the terminals)." http://www.elp.com/articles/powergrid_international/print/volume-18/issue-2/features/underground-vs-overhead-power-line-installation-cost-comparison-.html

Add to that another factor, Thailand has frequent localised and general flooding due to its climate.

That's a point for Wyoming perhaps. But the sections of the US that are far wealthier than the average and have high-population density, like the Northeast, still have all the power lines above ground, except for major cities.

How about that US education scores at the bottom of the OECD countries, way below Germany, Finland, and South Korea, none of which is as rich as the US? Or the US healthcare system that weighs in at number 37 in the UN scorecard below Slovenia?

The polarization of wealth in the US, i.e. the class war, has put a priority on abandoning the public good.

Not only am I NOT american with very little interest of that country, I was talking about Thailand. Which is what we tend, or at least try, to do on TVF.

BTW besides cost, there are quite a few other reasons why above ground transmission cables are a better choice, most of which might be difficult to understand without qualifications in that field.

Congratulations on your nationality and your lack of interest in the US. As an American myself I sometimes feel obliged to point out the narrow-mindedness of know-it-alls like Gates who enjoy comparisons that favor rich America over vastly poorer Thailand.

I am interested to learn from someone with expertise the advantages of above-ground power lines and why the Germans are apparently not aware of them.

One would think that money doesn't mean having knowledge in a certain field however, just as you have voiced your opinion, Gates is entitled to voice his. Narrow mindedness seems to be one of your attributes as well. The fact is that the way Thais do their electric wiring is a hazard to the general public. In some places you even have to duck to avoid them touching your head. They cut wires and leave them unprotected. In the rurals, the farmers refuse to allow the electric company to cut trees that are possible hazards during storms. Their was and continues to be no forethought or planning when cables and wires are setup. They constantly mix phone, electric, and cable TV wires together haphazardly.

[navara]

I do not think it was wise of Mr. Gates to have a comment on this. But he is right. It is a terrible mess and Thai people do steal electricity. Not that they wanted to steal it, but they had no choice.

Power failures we have all the time here. Many people buy batteries and generators to be operational.

It's a third world country, what do you aspect?

[LomSak27]

I do not think it was wise of Mr. Gates to have a comment on this.

Why? If he doesnt say this is Thailand going to start buying his products instead of pirating? No Ok that answers it doesn't it

If you actually read the article he was talking about many countries who do this, and used the picture from Thailand as an example. He really wasn't talking about Thailand at all. Now think of the joy and rejoicing in Thailand as they got to become outraged, angry, and righteously pissed that some one said something bad about their country even if Gates did not. Yes, I think they enjoyed themselves thoroughly and isn't that Navarra, what it is all about

Edited June 27, 2016 by LomSak27

[gemguy]

But Surasi Maawai said: Don't look down at the Thai people."

What can I say

Cheers

[sabaii69]

Hey, rich prig! How about some money to eliminate some wires? Go back to America.

[gemguy]

Although it looks pretty bad ...surprisingly, every thing works well enough.

Over the many years here I have observed the tangled mess of wires and cables and wondered how they can ever trace which line is which...but they do.

I like the one where you see 2 service guys sitting on the bundle of wires and perched high above a busy intersection while you see NO ladder in sight and realize they monkey climbed the telephone pole and used the thick mass of cables and wires as the pathway means to get out into the middle of all the mess of wires between 2 poles.

The both of them smiling and laughing while they are up there.

I laughed also...but not as much as the one where a guy was actually using a ladder to get up to a junction box or terminal slice box while he was using a long bamboo ladder to get up there...but....... more or less right out there in the middle of the intersection and all the vehicles going through the intersection having to go around the ladder but just barely squeezing by while he is up there perched at the top of the ladder merrily doing his work.

Both times occurred before I had a cell phone with a camera......but next time.....I will have photo proof of the free circus show.

Cheers

[timber]

It is kinda silly to defend the electrical in Bangkok. Gates said the same as a lot of informed people have said. The cost of fixing the electrical system in Bangkok would bankrupt Bangkok, and I guess just have to live with it for the time being.

What surprises me is the head people not initiating new standards in new projects. To purposely create this type of danger to the community is showing lack of accountability for their position.

[SiSePuede419]

Typical tourist who goes to Bangkok and thinks they've seen it all, because that's the largest, most "sophisticated" city full of "sophisticated" people, who all are there for "sophisticated" reasons.

"The Bandwagon Fallacy", 555

[natway09]

The power cuts in Bangkok considering the rain, humidity are pretty rare.

We lost a 500KV transformer (don't worry, you will hear it when it goes) just down the road, total darkness, raining hard.

Congratulations to them 50 minutes , all changed, rewired & back on line. Amazing.

[bogozy]

We have keept some parties. The capacity of our electricity meter was not enough, Wife went the Electricity office for provisional extent.

Other parties, have a big powered music, rented out generator

[spidermike007]

"Surasi Maawai said: "Sure I hate those wires. But there are not many power cuts. And people in Thailand don't steal electricity as he says. Don't look down at the Thai people." - Others just poked fun at the American billionaire saying that the Thai electrical systems worked as well as his Windows 10 operating system."

Khun Surasai's response says it all. "Don't look down on Thai people" that obsession that someone, somewhere is saying bad things about Thai people, or disrespecting Thailand. Oh My!. Bill Gates said nothing of the sort.

Stealing power, I have had free cable for 7 years because my landlord spliced a feed cable, heh. As for the Thai electrical system and Windows 10. Not fond of it but as far as I know Windows 10 has not killed anyone, whereas I know of two westerners who have been electrocuted by faulty wiring

Funny statement. Don't look down at the Thai people. Why? Does this clown think that looking up at people is an automatic reflex? That somehow he and his country automatically deserve to be looked up to? That his culture and society are so magnificent that they deserve to be looked up to?

This guy Surasi is living in some sort of made up dream world, where people say nice things about you, just because.

One thing this moron needs to learn, is that respect is earned. Gates was pointing out something very real, very reasonable, and something that could be corrected. It is something that many people who have visited me, have pointed out. It is a rather glaring fault, within the infrastructure. Why does this problem exist? The local, state, and federal governments have been trying to save money on this, for decades now. This is the result. It is surprising more people are not electrocuted each year, from this tangled mess.

[KenKadz]

Dare I say, Any kind of maintenance is not part of the Thai mentality.

When it breaks we fix it.

We do not do preventative maintenance to keep it from breaking.

If we fix it before it breaks we spend money.

We do not remove old wires from power poles because we might need them someday... next life?

If the wires short out and catch fire, burning down a market or row of shop houses that is our bad luck.

Any questions?

[CaptHaddock]

So, yes Thai safety standards in general and wiring standards in particular are deplorable. Let me ask you before you decided to move to Thailand what did you think would be the differences between everything in your rich home country and still poor Thailand? Or did you imagine that everything would somehow be the same?

[tails]

Was just about to commend my city for all the great work they've done this year fixing up all the mess, installing spacers etc. No blackouts since about February, until today LOL

[manfredtillmann]

Dare I say, Any kind of maintenance is not part of the Thai mentality.

When it breaks we fix it.

We do not do preventative maintenance to keep it from breaking.

If we fix it before it breaks we spend money.

We do not remove old wires from power poles because we might need them someday... next life?

If the wires short out and catch fire, burning down a market or row of shop houses that is our bad luck.

Any questions?

this is not a thai - only thing.

try to deal with any public service sector in australia...

it might look better (perhaps), but it is not!

things seem to work in t, despite the cabling mess.

i have had the quickest and most reliable responses to data service complaints right here in issan.

and we do not have power black - outs more than two times a year - which is A LOT better than my country home in oz.

yes, it looks messy, but...

[chainarong]

In the US power cuts following wind storms are quite common because the power lines are above ground. Compare with Germany where all the lines are buried and power cuts are apparently unknown. This is what happens when a rich country decides to neglect its common commitment to infrasctructure of which the power lines are only one example among many.

OZ has been underground for a decade or more.

[MickRobbo]

Suppose i could go back to Australia and not have a hanging wire mess, and also pay $60/month for a shitty 8mbit connection with limited downloads

Nah screw that

Depends totally on local and which system you choose (or most likely can) connect too. At least true broadband does readily exist in the land of Oz; perhaps your choice of providers was not an efficient or effective one. I have designed and installed (fixed and wireless) for all of them; I do get it that it is complicated plus the geographic areas they choose to serve are consistent with population density. The Liberal party was meant to fix that with NBN Co. however:

Unaoil > Leighton Holdings > Vision Stream > NBN Co. (and there is no corruption in Australia)? ?

Without full knowledge of the systems they can walk all over 'normal' subscribers - Ombudsman does/can cause them a big headache though.

It's more a matter of total wastage and lack of forethought towards very important infrastructure and the future enterprises.

[MickRobbo]

"Others just poked fun at the American billionaire saying that the Thai electrical systems worked as well as his Windows 10 operating system."

ROTFLMAO

If Thai electrical systems are working as well as ANY version of Windows, Thailand would be in huge problems.

Fact is that it is not difficult to make anything work better as Windows.

Even for a Thai.

So ,If you are not using Apple system which Microsoft system are you using.Most any thing that you use from cell phones ,ATMs to home security systems are using some sort of Bill Gates systems.

Phone (Mobile) - Android (waiting for phone running Ubuntu).

TV-Box - Ubuntu

Home security - Ubuntu

Laptop - Ubuntu

2 Websites running on Linux.

Are these systems using some sort of Bill Gates systems?

Bill Gates Windows phones (Nokia) were a complete failure.

PS,: Until a few years ago, most ATM's were running on OS2.

A dream operating system.

Futile attempt, even if you are Linux / Apple aligned you must give credit were credit is due; the truth be known his comments were probably an attempt to assist Thailand rather than ridicule. He's a 'massive' philanthropist & resides in the US so what does he seriously gain from this, other than pointing out obvious areas for necessary improvement / ongoing flaw prevention?

[JackThompson]

I live in a Thai city, and the photo is typical, what amazes me is how infrequently my power goes off and how short the duration until it is restored...also at 4baht a KWH... i don't complain.....

Most of the "mess" you see in that photo is phone/cable-tv - not electrical power. To spite the appearence, my wired-Internet is good.

And having lived in many places around the world, I can say that the power in Thailand is far superior to most - but, if like most countries, it is better "where the money is" versus in the sticks. When you factor in the other benefits of Thailand vs the others, I have no complaints.

[elgordo38]

Dare I say, Any kind of maintenance is not part of the Thai mentality.

When it breaks we fix it.

We do not do preventative maintenance to keep it from breaking.

If we fix it before it breaks we spend money.

We do not remove old wires from power poles because we might need them someday... next life?

If the wires short out and catch fire, burning down a market or row of shop houses that is our bad luck.

Any questions?

Ah the Thai coffers are overflowing with money according to what the financial funny papers here tell us assure us. I guess we now know where some of that money comes from. Barely scrapping by on infrastructure maintenance is part of the answer. Wait till the bill comes in for the new subs, planes, guns, tanks, bullets, guns increased military comes in. Will there be a giant sucking noise? My daughter is a electrician by trade and came for a visit. When I picked her up in Bangkok and we took the train she could not believe the spaghetti junctions all over the place and asked me how this could be legal? I just told her its like a Startrek movie where Captain Kirk says "Make it so"

Edited June 28, 2016 by elgordo38

[bangrak]

Just one fine example of how bad it is with the local electricity cy.'s staff, engineers and managers (well, actually we had it twice this month only...):

We have at high cost got a protection system installed against too-high (never seen), too-low (the general rule) Voltage, phase cuts and drop outs, this after the number of capacitors, compressors, powermodules, etc., and whole appliances we had had to replace, because of faulty electrical power delivery, it cuts the whole 3-phase electricity delivery past the MDB (and re-activates when safe).

My wife called me after the big relay from the protection system dis-engaged (what's quite loud), because on the MDB there was still, some, light in the LED from of each of the three phases, but the Voltage meter read 150V. (with drops down to ~0V.) on the first, a steady ~200V. on the next, and ~20V. (with 'peaks' at 150V.) on the last phase.

As in my homecountry this is considered a dangerous situation, a security hazard, for buildings on three phase, and, for those on the first or last phase, so I asked my wife to call the electricity cy. to urgently cut the electric till they had fixed the problem at the origine.

The answer she got, not from the helpless helpdesk but from the technical dept's permanence she succeeded in getting on the phone, really amazed me: no, they were not going to cut the power, as in this way at least some people were having electric, and it could only be a bit of a problem for the few having a 3-phase system! Mind you, this answer was confirmed by a head engineer, we know, contacted just after...

It's madness, total irresponsibility, ...and no knowledge of how 'electricity' works at all (or don't care), that from the ones who would be supposed to lead the circus!

(Bye-bye your 3-phase equipment in use, mai pen rai, bye-bye your refrigerator, airco, TV, etc. when running on that 150V. (+ drops to zero), or on the one at 20V. with 150 'peaks', and could be at the origine of a fire at your house, mai pen rai, the cy. will never, ever accept any responsibility for any damage caused, been there, seen that)

P.S.: it reminds me of one of the cy.'s engineers engaged in a conversation with my then electrical system consultant (a Pharang, real engineer with a specialised company annex work permit) about a nonsensical action by the cy.'s staff, defending the, wrong, job they had done, telling: 'electric in Thailand mai same electric in Europe', from that day I knew we had to protect ourselves from the cy., and its 'Thai electric'...

[bangrak]

I live in a Thai city, and the photo is typical, what amazes me is how infrequently my power goes off and how short the duration until it is restored...also at 4baht a KWH... i don't complain.....

Most of the "mess" you see in that photo is phone/cable-tv - not electrical power. To spite the appearence, my wired-Internet is good.

And having lived in many places around the world, I can say that the power in Thailand is far superior to most - but, if like most countries, it is better "where the money is" versus in the sticks. When you factor in the other benefits of Thailand vs the others, I have no complaints.

Yep, you know better, no doubt, like a local guy in our Soi who probably had to replace the bad wire from his house to his waterpump 100m. away, wanting to save himself the money and the hassle, he picked some black 'twin' wire out of the spaghetti on the next post, which, maybe, looked fresh and, maybe maybe, 'unused', and had the job done fast, and nearly for free. Great!? No, not! It was our telephone wire, getting 200+V. AC (telephone runs on, very low power, 48V. DC! Bye-bye PABX, bye-bye alarm system, door automations, modem! Who did it? No Thai in the Soi seemed to have a clue, nobody had seen anything, what did you expect...? Pharang pay...

Edited June 28, 2016 by bangrak

[bangrak]

On a side note, how many Thais own a LEGAL version of windows 10?

...or of any software package! 99.9% seem pirated (and bugged) copies.

[bangrak]

Loss of phase, ...or face? Ask the reason why the 1st phase in 3-phase constantly has a lower Voltage and carries, a lot, less power than the two other phases, this being a general, not a local, Thai 'symptom', knowing that this 1st phase wire is the lowest (closest to the surface of the ground) of the 3 phase wires on the electricity posts, the one phase apparently most of the (single phase) meters are connected to, might be that the ladders used are too short, ...or that the cy.'s employees, and sub-contractors, are too lazy to go 'one up'? (Don't ask about 'phase balance' as even the ones higher-up who have heard about it, seem not to have a clue how to implement it on the part of the grid they're, supposed to be, 'responsible' for, TiT...)

[halloween]

The power cuts in Bangkok considering the rain, humidity are pretty rare.

We lost a 500KV transformer (don't worry, you will hear it when it goes) just down the road, total darkness, raining hard.

Congratulations to them 50 minutes , all changed, rewired & back on line. Amazing.

500kV, are you sure? I'm only guessing that you meant 500kW.

500kV would be very safely protected inside a H.V. switchyard.

[halloween]

In the US power cuts following wind storms are quite common because the power lines are above ground. Compare with Germany where all the lines are buried and power cuts are apparently unknown. This is what happens when a rich country decides to neglect its common commitment to infrasctructure of which the power lines are only one example among many.

OZ has been underground for a decade or more.

Low kV and lower urban distribution lines are underground in major cities. Most country cities/towns are not, and virtually all (if not all) transmission lines are above ground.

[aslimversgwm]

Surasi Maawai needs to check out the party lights at a temple gathering or wedding etc.. all are illegally tapped into the overhead power wires! The fella just needs to open his eyes..

Another example, about 20 years ago a farang friend bought a new house in South Pattaya (in a row of shop houses, all frontages intended for residential use).

From first month he was concerned that his electric bill was way too high, he called electric company, they eventually came and checked meter etc., could find no reason at all for the very high bill.

A couple of years later a farang rented the house next door on a 2 year lease (the owners, Indians, went to live up country because of their business).

Months later the first farang asked the renting farang how big his monthly electric bill was. Reply - 0baht, there is no elec. meter.

Renting farang also mentioned that in his living room there was a rather strange wiring set up at the outlet near the bottom of one wall. It was a common wall shared by the two houses.

First farang asked if he could take a look, The actual plastic box with the female plus access was not screwed to the wall and there was a mess of wires behind it. First farang pulled the female plug assembly away from the wall, and used a torch to look deeper inside. He discovered the cement had been dug out enough to carefully install some wires to drain power from the first house.

First farang then recalled that just after he moved in the Indians just moving in next door has asked to look inside his house because people had mentioned the way he had furnished the living room was very nice. Farang said 'sure, come and have a look'. Indians came with paper and pencil and measuring tape and measured all the furniture and fittings carefully and also measured the exact location of the powerpoints on the common shared wall.

First farang told the renting farang he was going to call the police. Renting farang said 'I have no objection, this is clearly unacceptable, and must be fixed'. Police came, checked all the documents and contacted the Indians and demanded a senior person from the Indian family come to the Pattaya police station within 48 hours with the chanut and documents to prove installation of elec. and water meter, etc.

By this stage it was also established the Indians had somehow got access to other peoples phone lines and a cable TV line paid for by an house adjoining at the rear.

Indians were fined heavily, had to give compensation to the other houses involved and told to sell the house quickly and if they came back to Pattaya the police would run them out of town.

Also turned out when they left Pattaya to go unpountry they didn't pay final wages to a number of restaurant employees. Police ensured the employees were paid immediately and then discovered the electricity for the large restaurant was being stolen direct from a pole outside the restaurant.

Full marks for enterprise! But seriously - what a bl----y nerve!