Were Brexit campaigners straight with voters over claims?

[webfact]

Were Brexit campaigners straight with voters over claims?



LONDON: -- “Mr. Johnson, any message of reassurance to the country? There are millions of very scared voters at the moment who are just looking for a message from their leader…”

The question shouted by a reporter in the direction of prominent “Vote Leave” campaigner Boris Johnson went unanswered as the politician disappeared inside the house.

The immediate aftermath of Britain’s historic vote to leave the European Union brought a surprising silence over the weekend from some leading “Outers”.

Meanwhile some of the claims central to the Brexiteers’ case were being exposed as somewhat economical with the truth – by leading proponents of Brexit themselves.

Pro-EU campaigners and independent analysts had already challenged Boris Johnson’s assertion that Britain gave 350 million pounds a week to Brussels.

The figure was plastered over the campaign battle bus, with the suggestion that it could instead fund Britain’s health service.

After the vote other “Leave” figures appeared to row back on the claim. UKIP leader Nigel Farage described it as a “mistake”, Ian Duncan-Smith as an “extrapolation”.

Another slogan “Leave” campaigners repeated over and over again – “Take Back Control” – was applied to immigration and to all powers they argued were vested in Brussels.

“We want our borders back, we want our passports back, we want our country back. And if everyone that agrees with us goes out to vote on June 23, we will make it UK independence day,” Nigel Farage said from aboard his own purple campaign battle bus.

Brexiteers argued that only by leaving the EU could Britain control immigration.

The accusation now from some quarters is that “Leave” campaigners were not straight with voters – amid claims that many voters backed Brexit because they expected immigration to fall.

After the vote one campaigner couldn’t say that immigration would come down significantly.

Another said that a post-Brexit Britain may accept free movement of labour from Europe to remain in the EU market.

Several people have been interviewed and quoted as saying they regret their vote to leave the EU.

Although “Leave” campaigners said the actual exit process from the EU could take time, many voters may have expected things to move quickly after the referendum.

David Cameron had said before the vote that he would invoke the Lisbon Treaty’s Article 50 immediately.

The government’s position after the result became very different.

“The prime minister has given us time as a country to decide what the relationship should be by delaying the decision to trigger the article 50 procedure until there is a new prime minister in place for the autumn,” Britain’s Chancellor of the Exchequer (finance minister) George Osborne said on Monday.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2016-06-28

[pitrevie]

_{Its wonderful to see them all now disowning what they said during their campaign. IDS has already denied the 350 million pounds for the NHS even though there is a picture of him standing in front of the Battle bus with the claim on it.}

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/eu-referendum-brexit-vote-leave-iain-duncan-smith-nhs

_{Farage also denying he ever said any such thing and for the Tory party to have made that claim was wrong. However unfortunately for him there is a video recording of him on Question time doing just that claiming the money should be used on the NHS.}

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/nigel-farage-350-million-pledge-to-fund-the-nhs-was-a-mistake/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html

[shirtless]

Are politicians ever honest, Only if its in their interests.

[teatree]

_{Its wonderful to see them all now disowning what they said during their campaign. IDS has already denied the 350 million pounds for the NHS even though there is a picture of him standing in front of the Battle bus with the claim on it.}

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/eu-referendum-brexit-vote-leave-iain-duncan-smith-nhs

_{Farage also denying he ever said any such thing and for the Tory party to have made that claim was wrong. However unfortunately for him there is a video recording of him on Question time doing just that claiming the money should be used on the NHS.}

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/nigel-farage-350-million-pledge-to-fund-the-nhs-was-a-mistake/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html

You have fallen for the propaganda of the pro remain press.

In the clip of Farage appearing on 'Question Time' before the referendum, when he said there would be extra money for the NHS he was referring to the figure of 10bn pounds, which is the net annual contribution to the EU (total money paid in minus total money received back). This is the official figure.

In the clip of Farage on daytime TV he was referring to the 'Vote Leave' campaign, OF WHICH HE HAD NO INVOLVEMENT. He said the figure of 350m paid weekly to the EU, which was put on the bus by 'Vote Leave', was misleading because it did not factor in the money received back.

The Independent has spliced two different videos together where he is making two different points. Ironic that they are accusing other people of lying.

Clearly, there has been exaggeration and misdirection from both camps, but ultimately they were never campaigning for office. There was never any way they could deliver on any promise, it was a referendum not a general election.

[Usernames]

And so the campaign begins to disregard the vote to leave. Either that, or make people keep voting "until they get it right," according to the "Europress" or, in this case, literally the Euronews.

[spidermike007]

I believe the UK is far, far better off without the EU. It may take some time to adjust, and some money may be lost in the short run, but in the long run, the UK will emerge far stronger, and the currency will maintain it's supreme edge over most other currencies. The EU is a bit like the UN. In drastic need of reform, and way too liberal for it's own good. Their policies just do not seem in step with the current times. The leave voters will be proven to be far wiser than the worried pundits make them out to be, at this point in time.

[baboon]

I didn't vote in the end as it seemed to me a coin toss over which side was to be given the mandate to shaft the general public. 'Twas ever thus, I suppose...

[topt]

I believe the UK is far, far better off without the EU. It may take some time to adjust, and some money may be lost in the short run, but in the long run, the UK will emerge far stronger, and the currency will maintain it's supreme edge over most other currencies. The EU is a bit like the UN. In drastic need of reform, and way too liberal for it's own good. Their policies just do not seem in step with the current times. The leave voters will be proven to be far wiser than the worried pundits make them out to be, at this point in time.

I agree but it is going to need firm leadership and diplomacy to move things forward in a positive way and unfortunately I cannot see where that is going to come from at the moment?

[nabbie]

I believe the UK is far, far better off without the EU. It may take some time to adjust, and some money may be lost in the short run, but in the long run, the UK will emerge far stronger, and the currency will maintain it's supreme edge over most other currencies. The EU is a bit like the UN. In drastic need of reform, and way too liberal for it's own good. Their policies just do not seem in step with the current times. The leave voters will be proven to be far wiser than the worried pundits make them out to be, at this point in time.

The future of U.K? Or will it be dissolved as well? Who knows?

[Doc46]

Politicians at their best are Liars ,same as Lawyers/priests/monks,They all lie for their own/friends/families benefit,Not for Your's/ Our's.

[SgtRock]

Were Brexit campaigners straight with voters over claims?

A straight Politician ?

Surely an oxymoron.

[pitrevie]

_{Its wonderful to see them all now disowning what they said during their campaign. IDS has already denied the 350 million pounds for the NHS even though there is a picture of him standing in front of the Battle bus with the claim on it.}

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/eu-referendum-brexit-vote-leave-iain-duncan-smith-nhs

_{Farage also denying he ever said any such thing and for the Tory party to have made that claim was wrong. However unfortunately for him there is a video recording of him on Question time doing just that claiming the money should be used on the NHS.}

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/nigel-farage-350-million-pledge-to-fund-the-nhs-was-a-mistake/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html

You have fallen for the propaganda of the pro remain press.

In the clip of Farage appearing on 'Question Time' before the referendum, when he said there would be extra money for the NHS he was referring to the figure of 10bn pounds, which is the net annual contribution to the EU (total money paid in minus total money received back). This is the official figure.

In the clip of Farage on daytime TV he was referring to the 'Vote Leave' campaign, OF WHICH HE HAD NO INVOLVEMENT. He said the figure of 350m paid weekly to the EU, which was put on the bus by 'Vote Leave', was misleading because it did not factor in the money received back.

The Independent has spliced two different videos together where he is making two different points. Ironic that they are accusing other people of lying.

Clearly, there has been exaggeration and misdirection from both camps, but ultimately they were never campaigning for office. There was never any way they could deliver on any promise, it was a referendum not a general election.

Well I have just watched the clip of Farage claiming that we should spend the 10 billion we will save by not being in the EU on the NHS etc and now like everyone else he is backtracking even on that figure along with all the others. You are quite right about the two video clips in the first Farage is telling everyone about the extra cash and in the second he is then denying that any such promise was ever made by him. He definitely states that extra cash going into the NHS as a result of not making any contributions to the EU its as clear as day on the video. The second video just shows him reneging on that.

I think your claim that this was propaganda is plain wrong its very obvious to anyone that they are two different video clips, the first of him making the promise before the vote and the second after the Brexit vote saying he didn't.

I guess his statement that should the majority also being less than about 4% that would mean a second referendum is also propaganda.

[Laughing Gravy]

Is the EU commission undemocratic and unelected, yes.

Was immigration numbers above the levels the government quoted, yes

Was the sovereignty of the UK taken away and rules, laws and regulations affected by the EU, yes

For me the first one was enough so I can't see a justified argument and it would seem many others would agree. That's why they voted last Thursday for leave.

[Morch]

[Psimbo]

Were Remainers honest either? Cancellor has now claimed a powerful economy, no emergency budget and godzilla still hasn't attacked the country. Lies and mis-representation by both sides.

The hysteria needs to settle down (and GBP to rise, lol!)

There was never going to be a complete break with Europe and BoJo's close ties comment is to be expected.

[pitrevie]

Is the EU commission undemocratic and unelected, yes.

Was immigration numbers above the levels the government quoted, yes

Was the sovereignty of the UK taken away and rules, laws and regulations affected by the EU, yes

For me the first one was enough so I can't see a justified argument and it would seem many others would agree. That's why they voted last Thursday for leave.

I take it you understand that you will have no say in who is about to be appointed as the next PM of your country. Neither will you have any say in who he appoints to any of the executive positions in his government. Perhaps you need to leave.

[ddavidovsky]

Nobody was straight with voters. The main issue was immigration. The topic always lurks on the periphery of the discussion but nobody is able to address it frankly, or even admit that it's the main issue, for fear of looking like a Nazi. The whole subject is taboo. This is the reason why many commentators are confused as to what has happened and why. They daren't even admit it to themselves.

[spidermike007]

Amazing stuff. Oliver is brilliant. Definitely the UK's answer to Bill Maher.

[Rancid]

Yes, speaking of actual political dishonesty, seems the UK has luckily dodged a bullet by choosing Leave (the voters choosing at any rate).

According to The Express and the Daily Mail the European overlords will be unveiling their long held plan to turn the EU into one giant superstate (with them in charge no doubt). Controversially member states would also lose what few controls they have left over their own borders, including the procedure for admitting and relocating refugees.

The plot has sparked fury and panic in Poland - a traditional ally of Britain in the fight against federalism - after being leaked to Polish news channel TVP Info.

So no doubt we'll also see the proposed Euro army emerge as Europe charges towards complte Isamification, the EU bureaucrats really would do Orwell proud.

[SgtRock]

Yes, speaking of actual political dishonesty, seems the UK has luckily dodged a bullet by choosing Leave (the voters choosing at any rate).

According to The Express and the Daily Mail the European overlords will be unveiling their long held plan to turn the EU into one giant superstate (with them in charge no doubt). Controversially member states would also lose what few controls they have left over their own borders, including the procedure for admitting and relocating refugees.

The plot has sparked fury and panic in Poland - a traditional ally of Britain in the fight against federalism - after being leaked to Polish news channel TVP Info.

So no doubt we'll also see the proposed Euro army emerge as Europe charges towards complte Isamification, the EU bureaucrats really would do Orwell proud.

Your last sentence aside.

I do not know how many threads I have posted this on.

Referencing 2020 and 2025 as the timeline for this occurring.

Edited June 28, 2016 by SgtRock

[Laughing Gravy]

Is the EU commission undemocratic and unelected, yes.

Was immigration numbers above the levels the government quoted, yes

Was the sovereignty of the UK taken away and rules, laws and regulations affected by the EU, yes

For me the first one was enough so I can't see a justified argument and it would seem many others would agree. That's why they voted last Thursday for leave.

I take it you understand that you will have no say in who is about to be appointed as the next PM of your country. Neither will you have any say in who he appoints to any of the executive positions in his government. Perhaps you need to leave.

But I will have a vote for the MP of my area when the next election happens and so will everyone else. They have the choice to vote MP's and political parties out. You sound like a certain Thai ex Prime minister here in Thailand who tied to justify his existence to the BBC when interviewed comparing himself to Gordon Brown. look what happened to him, Gordon brown. His party was voted out. At least the people of the UK voted the conservative party in. Nobody voted the EU commission in or can vote them out.

Your argument trying to somehow link the undemocratic EU commission to the UK parliamentary system is feeble and I would get your hat and coat and leave.

[Khun Han]

Is the EU commission undemocratic and unelected, yes.

Was immigration numbers above the levels the government quoted, yes

Was the sovereignty of the UK taken away and rules, laws and regulations affected by the EU, yes

For me the first one was enough so I can't see a justified argument and it would seem many others would agree. That's why they voted last Thursday for leave.

I take it you understand that you will have no say in who is about to be appointed as the next PM of your country. Neither will you have any say in who he appoints to any of the executive positions in his government. Perhaps you need to leave.

But he (and I) will in the general election that will follow. An option we never had with EU leaders until the referendum. The deceit from the pro-EU brigade just rolls off the tongue effortlessly.

[JLCrab]

As a Yank I can sometimes get confused with all this . I just saw a topic heading "Desperate British Family ..." and I thought that was the Brexit topic.

[pitrevie]

Is the EU commission undemocratic and unelected, yes.

Was immigration numbers above the levels the government quoted, yes

Was the sovereignty of the UK taken away and rules, laws and regulations affected by the EU, yes

For me the first one was enough so I can't see a justified argument and it would seem many others would agree. That's why they voted last Thursday for leave.

I take it you understand that you will have no say in who is about to be appointed as the next PM of your country. Neither will you have any say in who he appoints to any of the executive positions in his government. Perhaps you need to leave.

But he (and I) will in the general election that will follow. An option we never had with EU leaders until the referendum. The deceit from the pro-EU brigade just rolls off the tongue effortlessly.

Whether he, whoever that is wins the election you still get no say in the appointment of the PM nor in whom he appoints to the executive. The most you will get is to elect your local MP. You appear to have little or no grasp on the way the government is formed in the UK. Of course we don't appoint the executive of the EU just like we don't appoint our own executive. We elect MEPs and our government gets to have a say in who the executive is of the EU. At least the Americans can claim to have a little more say in who they get as President but they too have no say in who that president appoints to the executive positions. However its quite apparent that you haven't any interest in any of this but just bogus nonsense about the EU.

[dick dasterdly]

On topic - the headline of this thread seriously annoys me as its so obvious that both sides ran their campaign on the fear factor, and did their best to obscure any actual facts.

It would be nice to think that one day politicians will run their campaigns on facts and genuinely held belief, rather than fear - and worthless 'promises'. Unfortunately, its not going to happen in my lifetime .

[pitrevie]

On topic - the headline of this thread seriously annoys me as its so obvious that both sides ran their campaign on the fear factor, and did their best to obscure any actual facts.

It would be nice to think that one day politicians will run their campaigns on facts and genuinely held belief, rather than fear - and worthless 'promises'. Unfortunately, its not going to happen in my lifetime .

Which is why we have independent sources like Sir Andrew Dilnot, chair of the UK Statistics Authority who debunked the NHS claim of 350 million and the numerous independent financial organizations that stated what their research predicted but all of that was dismissed. So if all that is going to be dismissed then I think the only thing left is divine intervention.

[dick dasterdly]

On topic - the headline of this thread seriously annoys me as its so obvious that both sides ran their campaign on the fear factor, and did their best to obscure any actual facts.

It would be nice to think that one day politicians will run their campaigns on facts and genuinely held belief, rather than fear - and worthless 'promises'. Unfortunately, its not going to happen in my lifetime .

Which is why we have independent sources like Sir Andrew Dilnot, chair of the UK Statistics Authority who debunked the NHS claim of 350 million and the numerous independent financial organizations that stated what their research predicted but all of that was dismissed. So if all that is going to be dismissed then I think the only thing left is divine intervention.

So the 'remain' campaign were straight with voters?

[Khun Han]

Is the EU commission undemocratic and unelected, yes.

Was immigration numbers above the levels the government quoted, yes

Was the sovereignty of the UK taken away and rules, laws and regulations affected by the EU, yes

For me the first one was enough so I can't see a justified argument and it would seem many others would agree. That's why they voted last Thursday for leave.

I take it you understand that you will have no say in who is about to be appointed as the next PM of your country. Neither will you have any say in who he appoints to any of the executive positions in his government. Perhaps you need to leave.

But he (and I) will in the general election that will follow. An option we never had with EU leaders until the referendum. The deceit from the pro-EU brigade just rolls off the tongue effortlessly.

Whether he, whoever that is wins the election you still get no say in the appointment of the PM nor in whom he appoints to the executive. The most you will get is to elect your local MP. You appear to have little or no grasp on the way the government is formed in the UK. Of course we don't appoint the executive of the EU just like we don't appoint our own executive. We elect MEPs and our government gets to have a say in who the executive is of the EU. At least the Americans can claim to have a little more say in who they get as President but they too have no say in who that president appoints to the executive positions. However its quite apparent that you haven't any interest in any of this but just bogus nonsense about the EU.

Don't be so ridiculous. I will know full well who will become Prime Minister if the party I vote for wins the next general election. And I will also know which politicians from the winning party will end up in the senior government positions. It's why I've always given my vote to the party that has the senior politicians who appeal to my sensibilities, rather than along dogmatic party political lines.

What is it about the pro -EU brigade and condescension? Infantile bunch.

By the way, the guy I quoted is Andrew Macgregor Marshall and I claim my £5 (though I'll probably get it in crappy Euros that'll be worth bugger-all the next opportunity I get to spend them) .

[Basil B]

Were Brexit campaigners straight with voters over claims?

No, over exaggerated distortion of facts by both sides.

Osborn has already had to eat his words regarding an emergency budget.

As for Boris and Nick, just as trust worthy as a couple of dodgy used car dealers.

[pitrevie]

But he (and I) will in the general election that will follow. An option we never had with EU leaders until the referendum. The deceit from the pro-EU brigade just rolls off the tongue effortlessly.

Whether he, whoever that is wins the election you still get no say in the appointment of the PM nor in whom he appoints to the executive. The most you will get is to elect your local MP. You appear to have little or no grasp on the way the government is formed in the UK. Of course we don't appoint the executive of the EU just like we don't appoint our own executive. We elect MEPs and our government gets to have a say in who the executive is of the EU. At least the Americans can claim to have a little more say in who they get as President but they too have no say in who that president appoints to the executive positions. However its quite apparent that you haven't any interest in any of this but just bogus nonsense about the EU.

Don't be so ridiculous. I will know full well who will become Prime Minister if the party I vote for wins the next general election. And I will also know which politicians from the winning party will end up in the senior government positions. It's why I've always given my vote to the party that has the senior politicians who appeal to my sensibilities, rather than along dogmatic party political lines.

What is it about the pro -EU brigade and condescension? Infantile bunch.

By the way, the guy I quoted is Andrew Macgregor Marshall and I claim my £5 (though I'll probably get it in crappy Euros that'll be worth bugger-all the next opportunity I get to spend them) .

So could you tell me now who is going to be the next PM and who is going to occupy the executive positions, try just a few of the senior ones for a good laugh. You might know who is going to be PM in any election since he will be the party leader but you have no part in his election other that electing your local MP. Furthermore apart from a few senior positions you have no idea who will occupy the other position which only the appointed PM will know when he gets around to making those appointments, so on practically every count you demonstrate that you haven't got the faintest idea what you are talking about.

Just like your phony outrage at the appointments of EU officials and yet you have no such concern about the majority of appointments in your own backyard.

Since you know all the the politicians involved lets try shall we. Tell me who is going to occupy the positions of Chancellor, Foreign and Home. Those should be easy for you with your concerns about having no control over the executive.

Edited June 28, 2016 by pitrevie