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Should Corbyn Quit or Be Pushed, as Leader of the UK Labour Party ?


Ricardo

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Labour party members, who had joined after 12th January, have won an initial court ruling that they are entitled to vote in the leadership-lection now underway, despite an NEC decision to the contrary.

 

"Labour's NEC had ruled that party members who joined after 12 January could not vote in the contest.

The group that brought the legal challenge argued this amounted to a breach of contract, saying they had "paid their dues" for a right to vote.

Labour is to appeal the court's ruling. The case could be heard on Thursday."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37009871

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He believes education should be free for all, if Corbyn had been in power and not Blair I doubt if ISIS would even exist.
Far be it for me as a newbie to try and educate some members on politics but it does seem there are far more right wing members than Socialists on this forum...but the right has been more favourable to the aristocratic position, to the hierarchy of birth or of wealth; the left has fought for the equalization of advantage or of opportunity, for the claims of the less advantaged. 
Left wing beliefs are usually progressive in nature, they look to the future, aim to support those who cannot support themselves, are idealist and believe in equality. People who are left wing believe in taxation to redistribute opportunity and wealth - things like a national health service, and job seeker’s allowance are fundamentally left wing ideas. 
Right wing beliefs value tradition, they are about equity, survival of the fittest, and they believe in economic freedom. They typically believe that business shouldn’t be regulated, and that we should all look after ourselves. Right wing people tend to believe they shouldn’t have to pay for someone else’s education or health service. 
Right-wing views make the less intelligent feel 'safe'
 

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The Labour Party's deputy-leader Tom Watson is reported in the Guardian as having said that the party is being infiltrated by left-wing activists, trying to make the party a revolutionary socialist movement, and  and were "not remotely interested in winning elections".

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37022656

 

"Labour's deputy leader Tom Watson has been accused of "peddling baseless conspiracy theories" by Jeremy Corbyn's leadership campaign.

It came after Mr Watson told the Guardian Labour was being infiltrated by "Trotsky entryists" who had "come back" to bolster Mr Corbyn. "

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On 6/28/2016 at 4:55 PM, ThaiPauly said:

I would like JC to stay on.

He is unelectable which means the Tories will romp home in the next general election.

He is Michael Foot in disguise...waste of space

All Labour leaders and PMs have been a waste of space, bigger hypocrites than all the other parties put together, including the Tories.

The party of the working class?? Aye right, "my father voted Labour so I must vote Labour". Typical mentality of the average Labour voter.

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5 hours ago, possum1931 said:

All Labour leaders and PMs have been a waste of space, bigger hypocrites than all the other parties put together, including the Tories.

The party of the working class?? Aye right, "my father voted Labour so I must vote Labour". Typical mentality of the average Labour voter.

I don't know how long you've been in Thailand but it's possibly too long as you seem to have lost the function of clear thought.

I agree that since Blair and 'New Labour' the party forgot their roots and the reason they were formed, if your father did vote labour, good for him, you sound more like a tory voter, but don't even try to tell us what the " Typical mentality of the average Labour voter is" that would be hypocritical. Jeremy Corbyn is like a breath of fresh air and he has fought and spoken up for 'working class' all his political life. Oh and don't forget the NHS or the Welfare State, I'm sure you've made use of these Labour initiated programmes.

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On 8/5/2016 at 10:26 AM, emilymat said:

It's difficult to respond to that attack, but I'll try.

 

I've been a Labour Party member  for around 45 years. I well remember the 'entryism' that took place in the 80's by Militant Tendancy and how it almost destroyed Labour then. Whatever people's view now, Neil Kinnock took them head on and laid the groundwork for the election of Tony Blair and three election victories (again, whatever your current view on TB might be).

 

Large numbers of your 'landslide' voters for JC are more drawn to demo politics than actual power.It's natural in a way, particularly for the young, to prefer street parades and placard waving to actually putting a party into power. If you look closely at the placards that are waved, many of them have Socilaist Worker motifs on them.

 

Something else, how can you vote for a party leader, when you didn't have to join the party. All you had to do was pay 3 quid and say you supported  the aims of the party. How many tories took this route to ensure JC was elected?. Quite a few I imagine.

 

You will maybe have noticed that in the recent Tory Party election for leader, which was aborted, the Tories only  allowed fully paid up members - with a cut off date prior to the beginning of the election race, - to be able to vote.

 

I'm afraid that, if every single Labour Party member had voted for JC - including myself, he will never be Prime Minister and will remain a leader of no more than a squabbling political pressure group. Not because he's a bad man without principles, but because at a general election people vote for party and prime minister and that  is a fact. With the best image makers possible JC would never be seen as a PM by huge portions of the electorate.

 

Recently Pariament voted (cross party) to renew Trident, yet JC hasmade it plain he wouln't contemplate using it even if the UK was on the  verge of destruction.

 

Sure,200,000 Labour party (and suspect) voters put him in his position, but he would need the vote of over 14 million to put him in Downing Street.

 

This is the real world I'm afraid, however noble his band of followers feel about his single issue messages  on austerity etc.

 

I'm not sure what your references to the USA are about. All I know is that UK elections mayhave flaws with the first past the post etc, but don't forget,we had a referendum someyears ago to change to another PR system and that was rejected.

 

 

 

For his union supporters there are other issues such as Blacklisting which he has supported them through when others wouldn't give the unions the time of day.

 

Bottom line is he is the choice of the Trade Unionists...to suggest he has been voted in by Tories is utter and complete nonsense.

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42 minutes ago, Dongkampo said:

I don't know how long you've been in Thailand but it's possibly too long as you seem to have lost the function of clear thought.

I agree that since Blair and 'New Labour' the party forgot their roots and the reason they were formed, if your father did vote labour, good for him, you sound more like a tory voter, but don't even try to tell us what the " Typical mentality of the average Labour voter is" that would be hypocritical. Jeremy Corbyn is like a breath of fresh air and he has fought and spoken up for 'working class' all his political life. Oh and don't forget the NHS or the Welfare State, I'm sure you've made use of these Labour initiated programmes.

 

Possum is one of the first to whine about his old age pension...you really have to laugh!

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5 hours ago, Dongkampo said:

I don't know how long you've been in Thailand but it's possibly too long as you seem to have lost the function of clear thought.

I agree that since Blair and 'New Labour' the party forgot their roots and the reason they were formed, if your father did vote labour, good for him, you sound more like a tory voter, but don't even try to tell us what the " Typical mentality of the average Labour voter is" that would be hypocritical. Jeremy Corbyn is like a breath of fresh air and he has fought and spoken up for 'working class' all his political life. Oh and don't forget the NHS or the Welfare State, I'm sure you've made use of these Labour initiated programmes.

No, not a Tory, I always voted for the SNP, everyone to their own, but I stand by what I have said, from Harold Wilson onwards, Labour were never a working mans party.

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5 hours ago, smokie36 said:

 

For his union supporters there are other issues such as Blacklisting which he has supported them through when others wouldn't give the unions the time of day.

 

Bottom line is he is the choice of the Trade Unionists...to suggest he has been voted in by Tories is utter and complete nonsense.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37026145

 

But not ALL of the unions, one of the biggest is the GMB, which has just backed Owen Smith  ...

 

"Mr Smith was endorsed by 60% of the 43,419 union members who voted, while 40% supported incumbent Jeremy Corbyn.

The union is one of the biggest affiliated to the party, with about 641,000 members - and is the biggest to back Mr Smith to date.

Meanwhile, Mr Corbyn has the backing of the UK's biggest union, Unite, among several others."

 

Interesting that they balloted their members, before deciding who to support. Whereas Unite, who are the biggest union and back Jeremy, consulted "members representing all the union's industrial sectors and regions, along with the union's executive council" instead.

 

"In a statement announcing the results of the consultative ballot, GMB general secretary Mr Roache said Labour "is at a crossroads" in "dangerous political times", and that it was "time for us to face up to reality".

GMB members, he said, "cannot afford for Labour to be talking to itself in a bubble for the next five years"."

 

That seems to me to spell out the danger.

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3 hours ago, possum1931 said:

No, not a Tory, I always voted for the SNP, everyone to their own, but I stand by what I have said, from Harold Wilson onwards, Labour were never a working mans party.

So you've backtracked to 'Harold Wilson onwards'...I almost agree although John Smith would've made a good Labour PM unfortunately he was succeeded by Blair who actually thought Thatcher was a good PM.
You say you've 'always voted for the SNP' was that the Arthur Donaldson era or maybe you waited for Alex Salmond to appear, of course many Scottish Labour Party members left and joined the SNP in the 1980s, or are you what Jim Sillars called a '90 minute Patriot'? 
I admire Nicola Sturgeon and with the Labour Party in Scotland completely losing it's way and forgetting who they represent the SNP have taken over to represent the working class in Scotland.

Jeremy Corbyn could be the best PM since Clement Attlee.
You might even change your avatar to the  Saltire.

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6 minutes ago, Dongkampo said:

So you've backtracked to 'Harold Wilson onwards'...I almost agree although John Smith would've made a good Labour PM unfortunately he was succeeded by Blair who actually thought Thatcher was a good PM.
You say you've 'always voted for the SNP' was that the Arthur Donaldson era or maybe you waited for Alex Salmond to appear, of course many Scottish Labour Party members left and joined the SNP in the 1980s, or are you what Jim Sillars called a '90 minute Patriot'? 
I admire Nicola Sturgeon and with the Labour Party in Scotland completely losing it's way and forgetting who they represent the SNP have taken over to represent the working class in Scotland.

Jeremy Corbyn could be the best PM since Clement Attlee.
You might even change your avatar to the  Saltire.

You know my views on the Labour party, and as for your last sentence, I may be a Scot, but I am not proud of it.

I am not going to explain why because it is nothing to do with a Thai forum, if I could have chosen my nationality

I would be have been Irish, hence the flag in my avatar.

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19 hours ago, possum1931 said:

All Labour leaders and PMs have been a waste of space, bigger hypocrites than all the other parties put together, including the Tories.

The party of the working class?? Aye right, "my father voted Labour so I must vote Labour". Typical mentality of the average Labour voter.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/historic_moments/newsid_8195000/8195545.stm

 

At least Michael Foot had a sense of humour. here he is talking about Keith Joseph.

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Post removed:

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

8) You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages, vulgarities, obscenities or profanities.

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6 hours ago, possum1931 said:

You know my views on the Labour party, and as for your last sentence, I may be a Scot, but I am not proud of it.

I am not going to explain why because it is nothing to do with a Thai forum, if I could have chosen my nationality

I would be have been Irish, hence the flag in my avatar.

No problem, as you have said, each to his own, but as the SNP will never be responsible for the UK, please try to hear what Jeremy Corbyn has to say, he has the ordinary working people at heart and genuinely is trying to make the UK a better place to live.

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22 minutes ago, Dongkampo said:

No problem, as you have said, each to his own, but as the SNP will never be responsible for the UK, please try to hear what Jeremy Corbyn has to say, he has the ordinary working people at heart and genuinely is trying to make the UK a better place to live.

If he is, which I very much doubt, he will be the first labour leader in my lifetime, to genuinely  care for the working man.

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14 hours ago, possum1931 said:

If he is, which I very much doubt, he will be the first labour leader in my lifetime, to genuinely  care for the working man.

 

Dongkampo asked you to 'please tray to hear what Jeremy Corbyn has to say', your response is to immediately dismiss the invite. 

 

The opportunity though still remains. Corbyn's voting and speaking record in the house is solidly behind ordinary working people and solidly in opposition to the exact 'betrayal of the working class' of which you complain characterises the Labour Party since Wilson. 

 

The question to ask is why have the right wing press singled Corbyn out of so much of their attention? - They repeatedly tells us that Corbyn has no chance of winning an election for Labour but are relentless in their attacks on Corbyn. 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

Dongkampo asked you to 'please tray to hear what Jeremy Corbyn has to say', your response is to immediately dismiss the invite. 

 

The opportunity though still remains. Corbyn's voting and speaking record in the house is solidly behind ordinary working people and solidly in opposition to the exact 'betrayal of the working class' of which you complain characterises the Labour Party since Wilson. 

 

The question to ask is why have the right wing press singled Corbyn out of so much of their attention? - They repeatedly tells us that Corbyn has no chance of winning an election for Labour but are relentless in their attacks on Corbyn. 

 

 

I come from a working class family, and all I got from my parents is Labour are the working mans party. I have heard and read all the Labour top dogs spouting off about how they will help the working man, and it has all been lies. Harold Wilson was the first labour prime minister I remember, I was at school then, when he got in and in the years after, it was tax, tax and more tax, road tax, petrol tax, rents and rates etc, doubled in five years, the working man suffering most as usual, new taxes being introduced, wage freezes without price freezes etc, etc. They were such liars, that even Ted Heath managed to win an election, then the miners saw to it that Wilson got back in again, then he led the country to bankruptcy, and had to get bailed out by the IMF and Wilson resigned.

When Blair became the PM, he was left with a good economy by John Major, and look what has happened since then particularly with Immigration.

If Corbyn is what you say he is, then he will not last much longer, the money men will see to that.

I am no Thatcher man and no Tory, but if it was not for the Tories, I would not be here in Thailand today, as it was them that led to me being able to buy my house, paying it off, buying a bigger better house, paying it off, selling it and moving here ten years ago.

I stand by what I say, Labour are bigger hypocrites than all the other parties put together, and I am not going to listen to any more of their lies, Corbyn included.

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42 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I come from a working class family, and all I got from my parents is Labour are the working mans party. I have heard and read all the Labour top dogs spouting off about how they will help the working man, and it has all been lies. Harold Wilson was the first labour prime minister I remember, I was at school then, when he got in and in the years after, it was tax, tax and more tax, road tax, petrol tax, rents and rates etc, doubled in five years, the working man suffering most as usual, new taxes being introduced, wage freezes without price freezes etc, etc. They were such liars, that even Ted Heath managed to win an election, then the miners saw to it that Wilson got back in again, then he led the country to bankruptcy, and had to get bailed out by the IMF and Wilson resigned.

When Blair became the PM, he was left with a good economy by John Major, and look what has happened since then particularly with Immigration.

If Corbyn is what you say he is, then he will not last much longer, the money men will see to that.

I am no Thatcher man and no Tory, but if it was not for the Tories, I would not be here in Thailand today, as it was them that led to me being able to buy my house, paying it off, buying a bigger better house, paying it off, selling it and moving here ten years ago.

I stand by what I say, Labour are bigger hypocrites than all the other parties put together, and I am not going to listen to any more of their lies, Corbyn included.

I too come from a working class family, but it was only when I was in my 30s I thought to ask my dad his political orientation - as it had never previously been mentioned!

 

Funnily enough, I'd assumed he voted tory as he always bought the Telegraph (I used to read it when he was driving me to school, a 30 minute or so trip), but as it turned out he voted Labour :lol:.

 

From the things I've read here, I gather Corbyn is a genuine Labour supporter - as opposed to Blair's appalling New Labour.  If so, I sincerely hope he gets a chance at the next general election - it would give us a good idea as to the Brits' current political thinking.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

 The only chance Britain has is with UKIP, the major parties has messed it up time and again, they are all hypocrites and liars.

 

 

Can you give tell me any policy that UKIP offers that they have any chance of delivering on. 

 

Their flag ship policy of removing the UK from an EU over which they claimed the UK has no influence, of removing the UK from having to pay for the EU and removing the UK from having to accept the EU's freedom of movement, will actually deliver the UK a relationship with the EU in which the UK is stripped of its veto on EU policy (and therefore has zero control over the EU0), the UK will continue to pay for the EU and the UK will continue to accept the EU's freedom of movement of people. 

 

And thats if and only of the UK does withdraw from the EU, if an only if the UK can get a deal that UKIP promised but had absolutely no idea how it was going to achieve the deal. 

 

Meanwhile the £350 million a week UKIP promised to spend on the NHS has gone down the pan, the fight against the 'Elite' has ended with the 'Elite' consolidating power in 'Their' political party. 

 

And as if to remind everyone, the Duke of Westminster departed this earth leaving his £9000,000,000 estate to his son, the new Duke of Westminster, without paying a penny tax. His last thoughts surely contentment UKIP's stated aim of getting power from the 'Elite' and handing it to the 'common working man' had gone exactly the way it was planned to go. 

 

I look forward to any hearing from you any policy UKIP has that might ever happen, that is not based on fear, xenophobia or racism and that does not and is not aimed at maintaing the control the 'Elite' have over the UK's politics?

 

Over to you. 

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1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

 The only chance Britain has is with UKIP, the major parties has messed it up time and again, they are all hypocrites and liars.

Of course politicians are hypocrites and liars - its the job description!

 

I'm more interested in whether Corbyn may buck (to a certain extent...) this trend.

 

Supporting 'remain' in a luke-warm fashion is far from an endorsement for standing up for one's beliefs, but perhaps the Labour MPs doing their best to get rid of him will result in him standing up for the poor/working class?

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The Court of Appeal has now announced that the Labour Party N.E.C. does have the power to decide to disenfranchise 130,000 recently-joined members  ...

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37057589

 

" Labour was within its rights to stop new members voting in its leadership contest between Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Smith, the Court of Appeal has ruled.

It found Labour had the power "to set the criteria for members to be eligible to vote", effectively reintroducing the voting ban on nearly 130,000 members.  It overturns an earlier High Court ruling that the ban was unlawful."

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On 8/5/2016 at 4:46 AM, dageurreotype said:

For all of you farang screaming democracy here in junta led Thailand, may I remind you, Corbyn, like him or not, was voted in by a landslide. 

 

I am truly ashamed to be British seeing the UK following the corrupt US msm able to manipulate the people to adhere to their corporate backed agenda. And all of you GIVING the VOTE on whether a candidate stays or goes to these monsters is despicable. And you thought you were better than the 'dumb American'. For shame.

 

Whoa. Corbyn was voted in by a majority of people voting in the  election of the labour leader. 422,871 votes were cast of which 251,417 were for Corbyn. This is hardly a majority landslide in respect to a general election reflecting the will of the people.  people who bothered to vote in his party election  picked him. That's basically a reflection of the support of die hard extreme leftists and  the anti west demographic  in the UK and nothing more.

 

The fact of the matter is that a small minority of people  decided who would lead the Labour party, just as a small minority of people decided who would lead the Tories, the  SNP etc. That's how party politics work.  If people  want a different leader, they need to join up and vote accordingly.  The general public has the chance to vote for various candidates at the riding level and at the last election, the  public selected the Conservatives 

 

Corbyn has the support of  the most vocal group in his party and as long as they play the system correctly, he will be the legitimate leader. in the interim, the party will bleed its intellectual  capital , its unaffiliated progressives and its fundraisers to other political parties, specifically the Liberal Democrats.

 

The Corbyn  clique is the  best thing that could happen  to  politics in the UK as it will revitalize the third party and give the Liberal alliance a way back to their glory days. Corbyn could give the Liberal Democrats the push they need to do it. A revived Liberal party would appeal to many progressives in the Conservative party too.

 

Anyway you slice it, Corbyn is a bigoted resentful jerk. He is living an adventure he deserves.

 

 

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1 minute ago, GuestHouse said:

 

Corbyn bigoted?

 

 

 

Yes sir. His views on many issues demonstrate a profound bias. it is one of the many reasons why some decent  well respected  members of Labour despise the man.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/02/angela-eagle-jeremy-corbyn-failure-tackle-bigotry-tarnished-labour-party

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-foreign-policy-antisemitism

 

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22 hours ago, GuestHouse said:

 

 

Can you give tell me any policy that UKIP offers that they have any chance of delivering on. 

 

Their flag ship policy of removing the UK from an EU over which they claimed the UK has no influence, of removing the UK from having to pay for the EU and removing the UK from having to accept the EU's freedom of movement, will actually deliver the UK a relationship with the EU in which the UK is stripped of its veto on EU policy (and therefore has zero control over the EU0), the UK will continue to pay for the EU and the UK will continue to accept the EU's freedom of movement of people. 

 

And thats if and only of the UK does withdraw from the EU, if an only if the UK can get a deal that UKIP promised but had absolutely no idea how it was going to achieve the deal. 

 

Meanwhile the £350 million a week UKIP promised to spend on the NHS has gone down the pan, the fight against the 'Elite' has ended with the 'Elite' consolidating power in 'Their' political party. 

 

And as if to remind everyone, the Duke of Westminster departed this earth leaving his £9000,000,000 estate to his son, the new Duke of Westminster, without paying a penny tax. His last thoughts surely contentment UKIP's stated aim of getting power from the 'Elite' and handing it to the 'common working man' had gone exactly the way it was planned to go. 

 

I look forward to any hearing from you any policy UKIP has that might ever happen, that is not based on fear, xenophobia or racism and that does not and is not aimed at maintaing the control the 'Elite' have over the UK's politics?

 

Over to you. 

What I am going to say is, no one could be worse for the UK than the two main parties, the have messed it up through all my lifetime, so no other party could be any worse, especially Labour. The biggest thing in recent years in the UK has been  immigration, that is the main reason most people voted for Brexit, and UKIP would have done something about that, unless Nigel Farage is as big a liar as Blair, Brown, "call me Dave" etc which I very much doubt.

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On 8/12/2016 at 11:38 AM, dick dasterdly said:

I too come from a working class family, but it was only when I was in my 30s I thought to ask my dad his political orientation - as it had never previously been mentioned!

 

Funnily enough, I'd assumed he voted tory as he always bought the Telegraph (I used to read it when he was driving me to school, a 30 minute or so trip), but as it turned out he voted Labour :lol:.

 

From the things I've read here, I gather Corbyn is a genuine Labour supporter - as opposed to Blair's appalling New Labour.  If so, I sincerely hope he gets a chance at the next general election - it would give us a good idea as to the Brits' current political thinking.

 

 

Good sensible post Dick, but if Corbyn became PM, I still would not be confident he would do anything for the working class, I don't

know if he has millions in the bank like I believe all the previous Labour PMs in my lifetime have, or had, but I will never be convinced that any

multi millionaires have any interest in the working class.

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53 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

What I am going to say is, no one could be worse for the UK than the two main parties, the have messed it up through all my lifetime, so no other party could be any worse, especially Labour. The biggest thing in recent years in the UK has been  immigration, that is the main reason most people voted for Brexit, and UKIP would have done something about that, unless Nigel Farage is as big a liar as Blair, Brown, "call me Dave" etc which I very much doubt.

Excellent example of UKIP thinking, make generalised statement on the failings of the main politcal parties, claim UKIP could not do any worse, throw in a bit of immigration, offer no tangible policies.

 

The only outcome of UKIP's campaign is the consolodation of Tory party power an increase in racist abuse and a drop in the value of the whole of the UK economy.

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3 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

Excellent example of UKIP thinking, make generalised statement on the failings of the main politcal parties, claim UKIP could not do any worse, throw in a bit of immigration, offer no tangible policies.

 

The only outcome of UKIP's campaign is the consolodation of Tory party power an increase in racist abuse and a drop in the value of the whole of the UK economy.

Only genuine policies that the two main parties, especially Labour have is filling their own pockets.

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The hustings continue, Jeremy Corbyn regrets the court-decision not to let 130,000 members vote in the leadership-election, and believes that the recently-expanded party-membership can win the next general-election for Labour.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37070698

 

"Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has called for the party to consider its rules and ensure all members can vote in future leadership contests.He described Friday's Court of Appeal ruling - which excluded 130,000 new members from voting in the party's leadership contest - as "very sad".
 

and :"He told a rally in Milton Keynes that the power of Labour's 500,000-strong membership can sweep the party to victory at the next general election.He said the leadership election was about "how we enthuse, excite and mobilise people to win things in their community and ultimately win things for all communities".

 

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