is cec a expat club

[opalred]

years ago i was in expat clubs different places in the world

it was a gathering of people away from there home country

share news drinks and meals not a money making scheme

i belived like everyone the expat club here was the same

to my shock i found it was not

a money making business using the expat club name

selling everything to aged vulnerable people new in town

do they put in a tax return here?

[worgeordie]

Surely not !!!, what did they try to sell you? I know they

are pushing the breakfasts.

regards Worgeordie

[TheSiemReaper]

Yes, imagine aged and vulnerable people being asked to pay $7 for a breakfast cooked to the way they like it and in one of the city's better establishments (by all accounts)! When will this ceaseless abuse of the elderly finish? Will they take away their doggy bags and expect them to only eat the meal in front of them? Will they ask them to Le Meridien to buy coffee and sandwiches? Will they reprimand them for speaking out on Thaivisa? This is, of course, stirring stuff and I'm sure one of the many armchair detectives here in Chiang Mai will leap into action to discover that Nancy is... well helpful and generous with her time and input both in real life and on this forum. The scandal of it all! Governments have been overthrown for less.

[NancyL]

Dear Opalred,

I wish you had contacted me directly, the president of CM Expats Club with your concerns. My name is listed on the CEC website. On that same website, you'll see "Contact Us" info listing the "official" name of the club is คณะบุคคล Chiang Mai Expats Club with our Thai tax I.D. number listed.

Under Thai law, a คณะบุคคล (kanabukon) is a social club or group of people with a shared, stated common purpose. It is considered as an individual for tax purposes. The club has several sources of income (lifetime membership, sponsorship fees and entry fees to General Meetings/Special Events being the primary sources) and several major sources of expenses (costs of running the meetings and administrative costs such as part-time Thai clerical staff, website, outside accountant, etc). Any operating surplus is used for charitable donations and in underwriting the cost of special events and programs for the members. None of the operating surplus is used to benefit any individual members of the Board or any specific businesses. None of the Board members receive a salary for what they do and the "expense allowance" claimed by just a few is very minimal.

Since the club is considered an individual for tax purposes, we certainly do file Thai tax returns.

Does this make the Chiang Mai Expats Club a business? Absolutely not. It makes a Thai social club that has cash flow and is fully compliant Thai tax regulations. The Thai tax regulations changed in March 2015 requiring groups like CEC to file tax returns and according to the local tax office, ours is one of the few in compliance. They say the "farang" groups have been much more compliant than the Thai social & altruistic clubs that have very large income in sponsorships. (This requirement for clubs to file tax returns is yet another aspect of Thai life that changed as a result of the coup)

Opalred, you may be getting your information from someone who was familiar with CEC prior to the previous president leaving the country in October 2013 and my becoming president in March 2014. Much has changed since then. The The previous president had a business where he and his cronies did indeed sell a variety of products to retirees new to Chiang Mai. It was to his advantage to run the club as a source of new customer leads. Sadly, one of the businesses he owned sold investment vehicles of risk inappropriate to retirees. Some people suffered major financial losses and the credibility of the club suffered because they had assumed the investment product was safe since he was president of CEC.

The new Board has worked hard to turn the club around. All this was shared in detail at the Annual General Meeting in January. http://www.chiangmaiexpatsclub.com/2015-agm/

If you have questions, you're welcome to talk with me at Breakfast Club on Friday or to arrange a private meeting.

Best regards,

Nancy Lindley

[Trujillo]

What time on Friday? Until when?

[NancyL]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/928059-come-to-the-best-breakfast-buffet-in-town-1st-3rd-friday-mornings-of-the-month/

[mamborobert]

A rewriting of history worthy of the Stalinists.

Link suggests that Nancy was on the board for three years prior to becoming El Presidento.

This was while the LM and PFM investments and such like we're being promoted very actively by the club. Was also per link singing the praises of Alan, and his unfortunate ( cough cough) illness that necessitated his urgent medivac to the warmer climes of The English North,

The "club" has changed via constitution from what was essentially private ownership.

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/changes-at-chiang-mai-expats-club/

It really ought to consider renaming or rebranding perhaps as a retiree club rather than expat. Looking at the very nice photos of the breakfasts it really does look like an older demographic. Perhaps the employed, self employed, digital nomads, married with family, Thai speaking, more socially able, etc do not need the support mechanism or friendships the club may offer. As is much effort immigration wise is focussed on retirees. The linking of Lannacre, health insurance, end of life arrangements, social security discussions etc is more consistent with retirees Even the name Expat unfortunately is an elitist throw back to largely male Caucasian based clubs and may put some other off. An expat was usually an expat worker getting expat pay and living conditions, but no need to digress on that.

Perhaps time to draw a line and the club focussing rather than attempting and promoting itself as a catch all.

Edited June 29, 2016 by mamborobert

[NancyL]

Thank you for bringing up the CityLife article, Mamborobert. It's time I contacted them to see if they'd be interested in an article to update the situation.

Please keep in mind that when someone agrees to sit for an interview with CityLife, you don't have "final approval" over what appears in the magazine. It's very possible to be quoted out of context or to have what you say misconstrued. Thus, this article puts a much more positive spin on Alan Hall than I believe I gave in the interview by cherry picking quotes and also didn't go into the background about how the Board wasn't convened very often, not even four times a year as mandated by the sorry excuse for a constitution that the CEC had at the time. Thus, the Board had little-to-nothing to do with the day-to-day operations of the club.

And yes, good point about how the club's constitution has changed (very dramatically) since the days when Alan and his crew ran the show. I should have pointed this out to the OP in my previous post.

At the time of the interview, (less than one month after I'd become president) we were still in transition with what remained of Alan's staff. It was in our best interest to keep the lines of communication open since they were being fully cooperative with matters related to the club, such as turning over member contact details, details about operating the website and newsletter editor program, passwords, banking information, and indeed a bank account that looked as though it hadn't been "raided" and used for inappropriate purposes at least for the three years that we could reconstruct detail. This is what I meant in saying Alan Hall wasn't stealing money from CEC. I wasn't "singing his praises", only pointing out that he wasn't stealing from the CEC treasury and he and his staff were cooperating in the turnover of the club.

As for your suggestion that the name of the club doesn't fully describe the demographic -- you've got a point and perhaps we should be more specific in our mission statement that we exist to serve the needs of the retired expats in Chiang Mai. Something to consider.

[opalred]

i have lived maerim past 4yrs before 11yrs in cm city

and a man that enjoyed the night life and meeting most expats in town

i think now who started this cec business

3people 1woman and man selling real estate and one man in law

am i on track

[NancyL]

i have lived maerim past 4yrs before 11yrs in cm city

and a man that enjoyed the night life and meeting most expats in town

i think now who started this cec business

3people 1woman and man selling real estate and one man in law

am i on track

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clear the air, so to speak. You know, Maerim isn't really so very far away. In fact, one of the members who joined the CEC Board after the big upheaval in March 2014 is from the "greater Maerim" region. It would be nice if more Maerimians joined us for our gatherings.

[cyberfarang]

A rewriting of history worthy of the Stalinists.

Link suggests that Nancy was on the board for three years prior to becoming El Presidento.

This was while the LM and PFM investments and such like we're being promoted very actively by the club. Was also per link singing the praises of Alan, and his unfortunate ( cough cough) illness that necessitated his urgent medivac to the warmer climes of The English North,

The "club" has changed via constitution from what was essentially private ownership.

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/changes-at-chiang-mai-expats-club/

It really ought to consider renaming or rebranding perhaps as a retiree club rather than expat. Looking at the very nice photos of the breakfasts it really does look like an older demographic. Perhaps the employed, self employed, digital nomads, married with family, Thai speaking, more socially able, etc do not need the support mechanism or friendships the club may offer. As is much effort immigration wise is focussed on retirees. The linking of Lannacre, health insurance, end of life arrangements, social security discussions etc is more consistent with retirees Even the name Expat unfortunately is an elitist throw back to largely male Caucasian based clubs and may put some other off. An expat was usually an expat worker getting expat pay and living conditions, but no need to digress on that.

Perhaps time to draw a line and the club focussing rather than attempting and promoting itself as a catch all.

I have heard of the expats club but was never curious until Nancy L went on those immigration posts then I had a sneak peek at their website. Loads of companies and others sponsoring on there including membership fees. Not my scene because of the big company feel to it, whether they claim it`s non profit making or not, but not criticizing the people who might enjoy that sort of thing.

[MadMac]

Sounds like an old people club. Unsolved problems, lucky gamblers or not so, white knight wannabies. What's in it to be interesting for an average farang living here?

[NancyL]

MadMac, but you might be interested in one of the CEC's OGAs, the Computer Club!

The Outside Group Activities are clubs-within-a-club, a way for people with similar interests to come together: http://www.chiangmaiexpatsclub.com/activities/

The Breakfast Clubs are definitely a social time, although I don't think we talk about much about being unlucky at gambling much. Our current e-Newsletter may give you a better idea of what's going on tomorrow. Click here: https://madmimi.com/p/b0f018?fe=1&pact=116244-132409338-6149562782-3b37c95f4d4fa8be728988ed949da257df6e7477

Note how a couple of the OGAs will be there to chat with people. Also, that same newsletter talks about the topic for the next General Meeting and upcoming tours we'll offer in Northern Thailand.

Yes, there is some advertising in the e-newsletter, but note how some of the businesses offer discounts to CEC members.

And did you check out the article about the big Lanna Expo this weekend? This is a huge free event, but just about all the publicity has been in Thai. I doubt you'll find any other English-language news source that reveals as much useful information about hours, location, shuttle bus service, etc to this weekend of free fun at the International Convention Center on Canal Rd. And no, the folks organizing that event didn't pay CEC anything for sponsorship. It's sponsored by several Thai gov't agencies that want to encourage foreigners to retire to Thailand (yes, they really do!) and they approached CEC to help with the publicity.

Yes, the membership of CEC is definitely people over age 55, 70% male, 30% female. But we're not lost losers. We're simply English-speaking retirees looking to have a good social life, learn what's going on in the community and have fun.

[hml367]

NancyL,

Which government agencies are encouraging foreigners to retire in Thailand? You mention "several Thai gov't agencies that want to encourage foreigners to retire to Thailand".

This translation is all I found (not saying there are not many more, which is why I am asking you the question) about promotion of the Expo:

Held for four consecutive years, "Lanna Expo 2016" at the upper northern provinces including Chiang Mai. E., Lampang, Thailand. Lamphun and Thailand. Mae. Held together to stimulate the economy. Expand trade and investment in the area.

​It is odd, indeed, that a Thai government agency would encourage foreigners to retire in Thailand with only Thai language.

EDIT: I found this article on the National News Bureau of Thailand:

CHIANG MAI, 21 June 2016, (NNT) - The northern province of Chiang Mai will organize LANNA EXPO 2016 at the Chiang Mai International Exhibition and Convention Centre from June 30 to July 6.

The exposition will offer export-ready products and services, host several conferences and exhibitions, and give talks on relevant research. Attendees are invited to cultural stage performances and manufacturing demonstrations for goods and services inspired by local wisdom. The event will also serve as a platform for foreign diplomats based in the province to showcase their achievements.

According to Chiang Mai Governor Pawin Chamniprasart, the event's main objectives include boosting exports, enhancing the province's economy, and encouraging more investment.

Organizers expect the event to boost brand recognition of Chiang Mai's products and services, while paving the way for sustainable development in the North.

Edited June 30, 2016 by hml367

[NancyL]

hml367, please read the entire article in the CEC newsletter, including the links about ALL the various activities. You'll find the "Healthy Long-Stay Conference" https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B28QyonANqPoS3VnMVZtQzI5Wnc/view

If you look at the lower part of the brochure, you'll see the emblems of all the Thai gov't agencies promoting "Long Stay", i.e. retirement in Chiang Mai:

https://www.facebook.com/312425932227706/photos/pcb.784443478359280/784443118359316/?type=3&theater

[hml367]

Thanks, NancyL.

I looked at their Facebook page, but I missed this brochure. I will look again.

EDIT: I see ...... I looked at Lanna Expo and not the Chiang Mai International Health Conference.

Edited June 30, 2016 by hml367

[opalred]

i see pattaya has a expat club there books and finance open to all to see

if you have a expats club you hold a annual general meeting

the books open and profits divided to members

if you have a expat community

you have a annual general meeting books open to finance

after expenses remaining money going to the community

if you have a private company the money goes into there own pockets

what one do you run nancy l

[hml367]

I understand CEC promoting this Chiang Mai International Health Conference, and I think people interested may enjoy some of the presentations and exhibits.

What the Facebook page for Chiang Mai Internatinonal Health Conference page looks like to me is for businesses to participate in the Lanna Expo to increase their exposure and customer base. That would explain the government agencies shown on the brochure NancyL linked to. The registration on the brochure certainly seems to be for businesses or companies.

Still, I think it could be interesting to some people. It would be interesting to see a thread after the Expo with peoples thoughts.

[mamborobert]

i see pattaya has a expat club there books and finance open to all to see
if you have a expats club you hold a annual general meeting
the books open and profits divided to members
if you have a expat community
you have a annual general meeting books open to finance
after expenses remaining money going to the community
if you have a private company the money goes into there own pockets
what one do you run nancy l[/quota

God knows I am not the biggest fan of the CEC but my gripe is mainly with the constant criticism of Immigration and Agents etc.

But to suggest some financial impropriety is going way over the line. The AGM and Constitutional changes, and active membership, with fully disclosed financial records are beyond doubt.

Whilst I have concerns with some actions by the CEC executive and think some misguided I have absolutely no doubts on the integrity of the executive.

The CEC is a Lot more professionally run and accountable than what it was years ago. Give credit where it is due.

If you have evidence of any pocketing put it up or take to BIB......

A little investigation by yourself will find the answer to your post easy enough, it's publicly available, and the changes made well needed and fully implemented.

[NancyL]

Thank you Mamborobert for defending CEC and me (sort of -- I don't criticize Imm. ALL the time, do I? I have to sleep and eat, you know.)

Opalred, please go back and read my post No. 4. Every question you asked in your post No. 17 was answered there, including a link to the the slides used during our Annual General Meeting this January.

I simply am at a loss to understand why you bothered to post the same questions again.

[cyberfarang]

i see pattaya has a expat club there books and finance open to all to see

if you have a expats club you hold a annual general meeting

the books open and profits divided to members

if you have a expat community

you have a annual general meeting books open to finance

after expenses remaining money going to the community

if you have a private company the money goes into there own pockets

what one do you run nancy l[/quota

God knows I am not the biggest fan of the CEC but my gripe is mainly with the constant criticism of Immigration and Agents etc.

But to suggest some financial impropriety is going way over the line. The AGM and Constitutional changes, and active membership, with fully disclosed financial records are beyond doubt.

Whilst I have concerns with some actions by the CEC executive and think some misguided I have absolutely no doubts on the integrity of the executive.

The CEC is a Lot more professionally run and accountable than what it was years ago. Give credit where it is due.

If you have evidence of any pocketing put it up or take to BIB......

A little investigation by yourself will find the answer to your post easy enough, it's publicly available, and the changes made well needed and fully implemented.

Not all the agencies, only the one`s they don`t promote or not on their sponsorship list.

Edited June 30, 2016 by cyberfarang

[MadMac]

MadMac, but you might be interested in one of the CEC's OGAs, the Computer Club!

Thanks Nancy, forum screwed up yesterday, thus double posts, removed now.

I'm not negative, just curious. Would not mind to meet some of you guys in real and have actually done so before.

There is a meeting of the Chiang Mai FB group next Friday too

[Trujillo]

Why is the CEC financial statement online exactly a year old? Are we missing something?

And what are "Christmas Choir expenses and revenues"? What is this anyway?

What does a Christian holiday have to do with an expatriates' club?

[CharlieH]

Posts removed and response to same.

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

8) You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages, vulgarities, obscenities or profanities.

9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Personal attacks on other members will not be tolerated on this forum. Any further incidents will be met with "posting holidays" for those concerned.

Discuss the subject , but do not make personal attacks.

[daoyai]

Why is the CEC financial statement online exactly a year old? Are we missing something?

And what are "Christmas Choir expenses and revenues"? What is this anyway?

What does a Christian holiday have to do with an expatriates' club?

Why do you require a more recent financial statement? or any statement?

Wild guess, there must have been a choir at Christmas time that incured expenses and had some revenue.

Yes this is a tough one, why would an expat social club want to celebrate a holiday that usually involves socializing?

[Trujillo]

The website has a clear list of items, the Christmas one is at the top (which you would know if you bothered to look) and is a very large revenue/expense item. I'm just curious.

As to the release of the reports, they have two of them online and it appears to me that the reason they did this was to show transparency. If that was the aim, why has it not been updated?

They have "Financial Report for the Year Ended December 31, 2014" and "Financial Report for the Year Ended June 30, 2015."

As for the "choir," the expense for last year was 93,996.00 baht. The revenue was 61,600.00 baht. That's a loss of 32,396.00 baht.

I am just curious how a "choir" figures into an expatriates' club and how a choir can cost so much, and then get some money back (tips?) but can't cover the costs?

As for celebrating holidays that entail socializing, there are scores more -- why only this one and why a "choir"?

These are not unreasonable inquiries.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

MadMac, but you might be interested in one of the CEC's OGAs, the Computer Club!

Thanks Nancy, forum screwed up yesterday, thus double posts, removed now.

I'm not negative, just curious. Would not mind to meet some of you guys in real and have actually done so before.

There is a meeting of the Chiang Mai FB group next Friday too

Is there link to to the FB group's financial statements somewhere?

[fcgprg]

1st July is a Friday that is the 1st Friday of the month, the 3rd Friday of the month is the 15th July , that is how i see it. In answer to a previous post.

Edited June 30, 2016 by fcgprg

[Diplomatico]

The website has a clear list of items, the Christmas one is at the top (which you would know if you bothered to look) and is a very large revenue/expense item. I'm just curious.

As to the release of the reports, they have two of them online and it appears to me that the reason they did this was to show transparency. If that was the aim, why has it not been updated?

They have "Financial Report for the Year Ended December 31, 2014" and "Financial Report for the Year Ended June 30, 2015."

As for the "choir," the expense for last year was 93,996.00 baht. The revenue was 61,600.00 baht. That's a loss of 32,396.00 baht.

I am just curious how a "choir" figures into an expatriates' club and how a choir can cost so much, and then get some money back (tips?) but can't cover the costs?

As for celebrating holidays that entail socializing, there are scores more -- why only this one and why a "choir"?

These are not unreasonable inquiries.

Just curious - are you a member of the CEC? If so, you could ask that question at any of the regularly scheduled meetings that you attend. If not, it's not really any concern of yours, other than your self-appointed role as internet busybody.

[MadMac]

Is there link to to the FB group's financial statements somewhere?

No idea, who gives a sh*t anyway. Missed the first round, that supposedly was good. So next Friday it is

https://www.facebook.com/events/111113632654207/

Edited June 30, 2016 by MadMac