Even though we voted for it, a Brexit won't happen in the end. Here's why

[Baerboxer]

My understanding is that a lot of people voted to leave based on xenophobia and racism. So the day after their "victory" they realized the Poles and the Muslims, etc. aren't going anywhere. Oops!

I saw TV programs interviewing people in Britain over the weekend. All those who voted to remain had solid logical reasons for doing so. Those who voted to leave were a mixture - old people who yearned for past days which seemed so 'perfect" - memory plays so many tricks on us all; and younger people who blames immigrants for everything and thought leaving meant immigration would cease and lots of people would go home - they were lied to over and over again or harped on about sovereignty and change - neither of which they could elaborate on.

The extreme right, racists and those who have been stirring up those emotions for some time have seized their opportunity.

A considerable number of people who voted to leave appear to have had no idea of the consequences or understanding of what they were actually voting for.

Yeah, solid logical reasons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIjUESuwqes#t=74

The Socialist Workers Party - a minor fringe extreme left wing disruptive pressure group, with no elected representatives at any level of government. Really representative.

Maybe you should post Britain First or the BNP to show as a similar representation of those supporting Brexit?

Must be Raving Monster Loony Party supporter.

[dick dasterdly]

My understanding is that a lot of people voted to leave based on xenophobia and racism. So the day after their "victory" they realized the Poles and the Muslims, etc. aren't going anywhere. Oops!

I saw TV programs interviewing people in Britain over the weekend. All those who voted to remain had solid logical reasons for doing so. Those who voted to leave were a mixture - old people who yearned for past days which seemed so 'perfect" - memory plays so many tricks on us all; and younger people who blames immigrants for everything and thought leaving meant immigration would cease and lots of people would go home - they were lied to over and over again or harped on about sovereignty and change - neither of which they could elaborate on.

The extreme right, racists and those who have been stirring up those emotions for some time have seized their opportunity.

A considerable number of people who voted to leave appear to have had no idea of the consequences or understanding of what they were actually voting for.

Yeah, solid logical reasons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIjUESuwqes#t=74

Quite. A post with no merit whatsoever, relying on nothing other than the same mentality that applauded the 'new referendum' petition as consisting of regrexit voters.

Some people really are that gullible.

Meanwhile, the word hasn't ended and I wait to hear of major price rises in UK supermarkets.

[elgordo38]

The EU has been foolish to link social policy (ie migration) with trade and economic/financial/production standards. Having said that, the UK vote to extricate itself was also foolish because it has already wiped trillions off global wealth and puts Britain a precarious position. The positive thinkers keep saying 'no problem, Britain has a strong and vibrant economy so we will do fine". not so fast...the economy is strong and vibrant partly because of the EU relationship and not in spite of it. imported labor, exports and trade relatiobships all contribute and will have to be replaced with a new plan, a plan which the Brexiters clearly do not have.

Like Donald Trump 'may' learn....renegotiating trade agreements that you deem are not in your favor may not be the cakewalk you believe.

This whole UK EU scenario reminds me of a movie I saw long ago where 2 prisoners chained together were on the run. They hated each other but needed each other to survive.

[ilostmypassword]

I'm afraid you got it wrong again.

Remain means the status quo will not change, period.

Brexit means that the UK now has an opportunity to change the status quo. Whether that succeeds or not remains to be seen.

Once again, the Brexiters were not talking about stopping immigration - just controlling it. Being in the EU, the UK has NO RIGHT to stop any EU citizen from coming in.

Tell that to the people in Hull who want those Eastern Europeans gone. Or better yet, tell that to the EU. They've never yielded on that point - ask Norway and Switzerland - and they aren't going to, If they did, that would mean the end of the EU.

If Germany or France were an island they would feel exactly the way the British do about 'free movement of labour'.

And if Germany or France hadn't gone through the shock of WWII they wouldn't feel it so necessary to club together now (it was telling that Merkel's first reaction to Brexit was a plaintive reminder of the possibility of war).

Britain doesn't share their values on these matters. That's entirely understandable and entirely the point.

What you don't seem to get is that the EU is going to be adamant about the free movement of EU workers in and out of the UK. If they don't stand firm, it means the end of the EU. You may believe that's desirable but they don't.

[impulse]

My understanding is that a lot of people voted to leave based on xenophobia and racism. So the day after their "victory" they realized the Poles and the Muslims, etc. aren't going anywhere. Oops!

As a non Brit you understand...........

Sometimes it takes an outsider to point out that the emperor has no clothes.

And that goes both ways across The Pond.

[Baerboxer]

The referendum was nether binding and would require I assume parliament to ratify it...

With the EU not willing to negotiate on terms of us leaving or renegotiating our terms of membership so the issues that us Brits find most objectionable about the union can be addressed, ...we have a stalemate.

It is only a stalemate because those that said they want to leave actually don't want to leave -- they want a new and again an even more special deal than they already had. If the EU was as bad as all that has been said, they would not need terms to leave.... terms are not about leaving they are terms on how to stay..... Leaving is rather easy - it is all spelled out.... All that is needed is invoking article 50 (not rocket science) - done.... after that all the talks are really about how to keep a foot in the door and stay in some sort of way. Funny thing is the referendum question was not about getting a mandate on renegotiating... it was a referendum question that asked if you wish the UK to leave the EU.

When people are making simple things seem hard is because they really don't want to do that thing..... The stalemate is artificial.

It is a measure of public opinion. It has no legal consequence other than that. Only parliament, the UK parliament, not the glorified councils in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland can decide that, And they must debate and vote on that, taking into consideration the views expressed by the electorate in the referendum. An alternative would be for whoever takes over leadership of the Tory party, and then becomes PM, to call a general election with parties making it clear within their manifesto whether they would follow the opinion expressed in the referendum or ignore it.

Until such a vote in parliament Article 50 cannot be invoked. Cameron has refused to do anything whilst remaining in office. Corbyn is busy fighting off a revolution and Clegg is no longer any consequence. Sturgeon is as usual full of hearing her own mouth and making silly comments she has to backtrack on. No wonder the EU is mystified - or appears to be. I suspect Mr. Junker and Cameron and Mrs. Merkel have some interesting ideas on how this might play out somewhat differently to what many think.

ps. - a cynical conspiracy theorist might suggest now is a good time to buy sterling and shares all over Europe and the States. Just in case the politicians and mandarins have a game plan running.

[sanukjim]

What the Brexit vote showed was that The UK also has about the same of equally per portioned stupid voters as The US does,who vote as they are told or as their family voted or for a number of reasons ,while having absolutely no knowledge of the eventual out come of their vote.When the results of their stupidity happens they then cry foul and blame it on factors other then their own ignorance..

[Baerboxer]

My understanding is that a lot of people voted to leave based on xenophobia and racism. So the day after their "victory" they realized the Poles and the Muslims, etc. aren't going anywhere. Oops!

I saw TV programs interviewing people in Britain over the weekend. All those who voted to remain had solid logical reasons for doing so. Those who voted to leave were a mixture - old people who yearned for past days which seemed so 'perfect" - memory plays so many tricks on us all; and younger people who blames immigrants for everything and thought leaving meant immigration would cease and lots of people would go home - they were lied to over and over again or harped on about sovereignty and change - neither of which they could elaborate on.

The extreme right, racists and those who have been stirring up those emotions for some time have seized their opportunity.

A considerable number of people who voted to leave appear to have had no idea of the consequences or understanding of what they were actually voting for.

Yeah, solid logical reasons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIjUESuwqes#t=74

Quite. A post with no merit whatsoever, relying on nothing other than the same mentality that applauded the 'new referendum' petition as consisting of regrexit voters.

Some people really are that gullible.

Meanwhile, the word hasn't ended and I wait to hear of major price rises in UK supermarkets.

Indeed - your post has no merit whatsoever. Very polite of you to announce it but must can see that easily enough.

[jeab1980]

Another made up article. To attract the vitriol and keep it going

[chiang mai]

I'll stick my neck out and say that Brexit wont happen, even though the majority voted for it, it's simply not the right answer and today a larger majority have come to realise that.

Figures....?

Impossible to know, just instinct and the culmination of everything I've read. Too many people thought that Leaving was going to magically and immediately solve problems that it wont, immigration being the obvious one and allowing us to cherry pick new business from Europe at little or no cost. And people are now getting a taste of the financial impacts of Brexit and whilst things may stabilise this week or next as a result of intervention, we haven't even begun to taste the pain. Did you see the Branson/Virgin Group story, they lost a third of their value as of today with no guarantees anywhere from anyone that it will recover, 3,000 new jobs cancelled also and again, that's just the tip of the iceberg. That's a British company that was built from the ground up and it just lost a third of its value, I think some Brexiters think this is all a game and as long as the rich and powerful are seen to get damaged, they're happy. Sad, really sad.

[mommysboy]

Was reading an interesting stock market commentary from the U.S. the other day...

It suggested, in the wake of Brexit, that the English-speaking western countries form their own trade/employment etc zone, encompassing U.S., Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

Interesting idea, IMHO.

Because automobiles manufactured by English speaking people will be easier to use? Will run faster? Use less fuel? What rational economic basis is there for this?

Cheaper possibly. UK is very competitive. The exchange rate is low. UK free from EU trading regulations. Needs more validation I agree.

[HerbalEd]

The people of the UK have spoken and regardless of MPs desire, they cannot ignore the referendum result. Nothing can happen until article 50 is triggered and that is months away from now, and regardless of a new PM or a new parliament the decision will stand. The EU will most certainly not discuss nor make any concessions for the UK, so that is a non starter and thus the referendum stands, asking for a second vote on the same issue will not happen, nor will individual discussions between EU and Scotland or NI. Post article 50, Scotland will push again for separation, that will nmost likely happen at their cost, but equally they may fail the criteria for joining EU

Actually a scant majority of UK voters have spoken. Definitely not a mandate, by a long shot. Also, it appears a lot of the exit voters are having cold feet now that they're seeing some of the economic realities of leaving the Eu. Only my opinion (I'm a Yank), but I think more and more exit voters are going to become more and more regretful of their vote.

[ilostmypassword]

My understanding is that a lot of people voted to leave based on xenophobia and racism. So the day after their "victory" they realized the Poles and the Muslims, etc. aren't going anywhere. Oops!

I saw TV programs interviewing people in Britain over the weekend. All those who voted to remain had solid logical reasons for doing so. Those who voted to leave were a mixture - old people who yearned for past days which seemed so 'perfect" - memory plays so many tricks on us all; and younger people who blames immigrants for everything and thought leaving meant immigration would cease and lots of people would go home - they were lied to over and over again or harped on about sovereignty and change - neither of which they could elaborate on.

The extreme right, racists and those who have been stirring up those emotions for some time have seized their opportunity.

A considerable number of people who voted to leave appear to have had no idea of the consequences or understanding of what they were actually voting for.

Yeah, solid logical reasons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIjUESuwqes#t=74

Quite. A post with no merit whatsoever, relying on nothing other than the same mentality that applauded the 'new referendum' petition as consisting of regrexit voters.

Some people really are that gullible.

Meanwhile, the word hasn't ended and I wait to hear of major price rises in UK supermarkets.

A post with no merit whatsoever. The produce sitting in your supermarket or its warehouses are already bought and paid for. So of course there aren't any price rises yet. But how about in a few weeks? If the pound stays lower - and most think it will - do you think that the supermarkets are going to subsidize their imports and sacrifice profits all for the cause of British Independence?

[mommysboy]

I voted to remain, but following the shock result I am resigned to us leaving.

And following the very nasty nature of some or the European Leaders and Bureaucrats to us I certainly will not vote remain if there is another referendum.

Further more before any negotiations start ..."Junkers must Go"

Even now that the British public have spoken, the arrogance still remains. He is still trying to dictate terms:

European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said the UK did not have "months to meditate" on activating Article 50, which will trigger talks on the country's withdrawal from the EU.

"If someone from the Remain camp will become British prime minister, this has to be done in two weeks after his appointment," he said.

"If the next British PM is coming from the Leave campaign, it should be done the day after his appointment."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36656753

Yes I thought that.

[mommysboy]

I'll stick my neck out and say that Brexit wont happen, even though the majority voted for it, it's simply not the right answer and today a larger majority have come to realise that.

Figures....?

It was just speculation, an opinion. I got that from the phrase 'stick my neck out'.

[natway09]

I will believe it may happen when see Article 50 passed through all the both houses

[bkkcanuck8]

I'll stick my neck out and say that Brexit wont happen, even though the majority voted for it, it's simply not the right answer and today a larger majority have come to realise that.

Figures....?

Impossible to know, just instinct and the culmination of everything I've read. Too many people thought that Leaving was going to magically and immediately solve problems that it wont, immigration being the obvious one and allowing us to cherry pick new business from Europe at little or no cost. And people are now getting a taste of the financial impacts of Brexit and whilst things may stabilise this week or next as a result of intervention, we haven't even begun to taste the pain. Did you see the Branson/Virgin Group story, they lost a third of their value as of today with no guarantees anywhere from anyone that it will recover, 3,000 new jobs cancelled also and again, that's just the tip of the iceberg. That's a British company that was built from the ground up and it just lost a third of its value, I think some Brexiters think this is all a game and as long as the rich and powerful are seen to get damaged, they're happy. Sad, really sad.

Airlines will get hit because foreign airlines typically (in most of the world) can only fly point to point internationally. If they are flying from say London to Paris onto Frankfurt .... they can drop off passengers in Paris but cannot replace them with people flying domestically from Paris to Frankfurt. A reciprocal agreement would only really benefit UK for the most part since there would be no market for an EU airline to fly domestically inside the UK. Without any special arrangement - the UK airlines basically just lost out a big chunk of business.

[mommysboy]

I'll stick my neck out and say that Brexit wont happen, even though the majority voted for it, it's simply not the right answer and today a larger majority have come to realise that.

Figures....?

Impossible to know, just instinct and the culmination of everything I've read. Too many people thought that Leaving was going to magically and immediately solve problems that it wont, immigration being the obvious one and allowing us to cherry pick new business from Europe at little or no cost. And people are now getting a taste of the financial impacts of Brexit and whilst things may stabilise this week or next as a result of intervention, we haven't even begun to taste the pain. Did you see the Branson/Virgin Group story, they lost a third of their value as of today with no guarantees anywhere from anyone that it will recover, 3,000 new jobs cancelled also and again, that's just the tip of the iceberg. That's a British company that was built from the ground up and it just lost a third of its value, I think some Brexiters think this is all a game and as long as the rich and powerful are seen to get damaged, they're happy. Sad, really sad.

Airlines will get hit because foreign airlines typically (in most of the world) can only fly point to point internationally. If they are flying from say London to Paris onto Frankfurt .... they can drop off passengers in Paris but cannot replace them with people flying domestically from Paris to Frankfurt. A reciprocal agreement would only really benefit UK for the most part since there would be no market for an EU airline to fly domestically inside the UK. Without any special arrangement - the UK airlines basically just lost out a big chunk of business.

There are undoubtedly downsides. There will be dozens of examples I dare say. And these will be matched by upsides.

[HerbalEd]

Was reading an interesting stock market commentary from the U.S. the other day...

It suggested, in the wake of Brexit, that the English-speaking western countries form their own trade/employment etc zone, encompassing U.S., Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

Interesting idea, IMHO.

Because automobiles manufactured by English speaking people will be easier to use? Will run faster? Use less fuel? What rational economic basis is there for this?

Cheaper possibly. UK is very competitive. The exchange rate is low. UK free from EU trading regulations. Needs more validation I agree.

Do you actually think a non-Eu Britain will be able to trade with Eu countries without "EU trading regulations"?? Dream on.

[nausea]

And this is why you cannot run a country with town-hall politics, f###ing wan##rs. A representative democracy means just that, you elect people who are specialists. When they abrogate that responsibility, and return to the people, you have a big problem.

[fvw53]

It was all planned as explained in the TV series "Yes Minister"

[bkkcanuck8]

Figures....?

Impossible to know, just instinct and the culmination of everything I've read. Too many people thought that Leaving was going to magically and immediately solve problems that it wont, immigration being the obvious one and allowing us to cherry pick new business from Europe at little or no cost. And people are now getting a taste of the financial impacts of Brexit and whilst things may stabilise this week or next as a result of intervention, we haven't even begun to taste the pain. Did you see the Branson/Virgin Group story, they lost a third of their value as of today with no guarantees anywhere from anyone that it will recover, 3,000 new jobs cancelled also and again, that's just the tip of the iceberg. That's a British company that was built from the ground up and it just lost a third of its value, I think some Brexiters think this is all a game and as long as the rich and powerful are seen to get damaged, they're happy. Sad, really sad.

Airlines will get hit because foreign airlines typically (in most of the world) can only fly point to point internationally. If they are flying from say London to Paris onto Frankfurt .... they can drop off passengers in Paris but cannot replace them with people flying domestically from Paris to Frankfurt. A reciprocal agreement would only really benefit UK for the most part since there would be no market for an EU airline to fly domestically inside the UK. Without any special arrangement - the UK airlines basically just lost out a big chunk of business.

There are undoubtedly downsides. There will be dozens of examples I dare say. And these will be matched by upsides.

Not necessarily. If the UK trades with non-EU nations they have no competitive advantage over lets say Japan. UK has an advantage over Japan (assuming all other factors are equal) when trading with other EU nations because domestic and they have better access to these domestic markets. An example would be things like infrastructure projects - government works where often domestic suppliers can bid on things that foreign countries cannot - because priority is given to domestic suppliers or requirements of a certain portion has to be domestic. It would actually be funny if CETA gives Canada an advantage over an independent UK...

[Gweiloman]

Cheaper possibly. UK is very competitive. The exchange rate is low. UK free from EU trading regulations. Needs more validation I agree.

Do you actually think a non-Eu Britain will be able to trade with Eu countries without "EU trading regulations"?? Dream on.

[chiang mai]

Money folk care about money, folk on the street care about what is happening on their street...

As for Branson, look at his early history....

But whether it's Branson or anyone else in a similar position, he/they are the people who create jobs so that the people on the street have work, income, careers. Poorer people especially don't like wealth creators because they are usually very wealthy, but what they forget is that without them they wouldn't have work or income.

I've read his bio.

By the way, I see the Chinese are now buying up London because the value of the Pound has fallen, London already has very few native Brits in residence any more as a result of foreign property ownership, are you OK that the trend continues and even more property goes to foreigners because that's what's happening on a lot of streets and Brexit made that problem a whole lot worse.

Edited June 29, 2016 by chiang mai

[jippytum]

There where dirty tricks from both sides during the referendum . However the vote by the majority of the people was correctly adjudicated and fair. The people who lost the vote want the result changed because they lost.Democracy is a wonderful thing and should not be devalued by sore losers.

[ilostmypassword]

Figures....?

Impossible to know, just instinct and the culmination of everything I've read. Too many people thought that Leaving was going to magically and immediately solve problems that it wont, immigration being the obvious one and allowing us to cherry pick new business from Europe at little or no cost. And people are now getting a taste of the financial impacts of Brexit and whilst things may stabilise this week or next as a result of intervention, we haven't even begun to taste the pain. Did you see the Branson/Virgin Group story, they lost a third of their value as of today with no guarantees anywhere from anyone that it will recover, 3,000 new jobs cancelled also and again, that's just the tip of the iceberg. That's a British company that was built from the ground up and it just lost a third of its value, I think some Brexiters think this is all a game and as long as the rich and powerful are seen to get damaged, they're happy. Sad, really sad.

Airlines will get hit because foreign airlines typically (in most of the world) can only fly point to point internationally. If they are flying from say London to Paris onto Frankfurt .... they can drop off passengers in Paris but cannot replace them with people flying domestically from Paris to Frankfurt. A reciprocal agreement would only really benefit UK for the most part since there would be no market for an EU airline to fly domestically inside the UK. Without any special arrangement - the UK airlines basically just lost out a big chunk of business.

There are undoubtedly downsides. There will be dozens of examples I dare say. And these will be matched by upsides.

I remember an American politician who said extinction of a species is no problem since when one goes extinct, another pops up in its place. Seems like the same kind of reasoning as found here.

[SgtRock]

And this is why you cannot run a country with town-hall politics, f###ing wan##rs. A representative democracy means just that, you elect people who are specialists. When they abrogate that responsibility, and return to the people, you have a big problem.

Elect specialists ???

Career Politicians are neither specialists or Leaders, to use your phrase, they are f@@@ing wan@@rs.

Politicians got us into this mess, yet we expect Politicians to get us out of it.

Just a little bit more than a hint of irony here.

[Redline]

It's not the end of the world. Move on. There was plenty not time consider the implications of the vote. There are plenty of intelligent people that can figure it out. Break it down into steps

[nausea]

Yeah, and all you experts have spent your lives learning about politics. A cobbler knows a lot about making shoes, he knows FA about politics. That's why we elect people. If you still don't get it - some people

[Gweiloman]

Money folk care about money, folk on the street care about what is happening on their street...

As for Branson, look at his early history....

But whether it's Branson or anyone else in a similar position, he/they are the people who create jobs so that the people on the street have work, income, careers. Poorer people especially don't like wealth creators because they are usually very wealthy, but what they forget is that without them they wouldn't have work or income.

I've read his bio.

By the way, I see the Chinese are now buying up London because the value of the Pound has fallen, London already has very few native Brits in residence any more as a result of foreign property ownership, are you OK that the trend continues and even more property goes to foreigners because that's what's happening on a lot of streets and Brexit made that problem a whole lot worse.

So, what's wrong with the Chinese buying up London? Don't tell me you're a xenophone / rascist?

China is not part of the EU. How did they manage to get access to the single market to buy properties within the EU? Hmm.......

And if the Chinese smell a deal (ie buying up properties now), what does that tell you about their longer term sentiments about the property market in the UK?