CDC chairman suspects a well-organised attempt to mislead public about the draft charter

[Wilsonandson]

If the opposes to the new constitution have to fake it to make it look bad there is something wrong.

Let each one study it by themselves and make up their decision.

The democratic UK EU referendum was completely polluted with lies, misinformation and coercion from both sides.

A decision like this should be made by each individual studying the actual draft constitution, not listening to lies or coercions from other people

You expecting the farmers and taxi drivers to study the constitution? You think the academics, non aligned activists, Dem party polticians and even former CDC members are lying? Forget about comparing to UK referendum as it is only a yes and no decision.

Most people in Thailand can read and the constitution is only about 140 pages long (English version). There is also a short version, with explanations, available. Yes, I do think people may lie. In any case they should not try to persuade other people to vote the way they want them to vote.

And if you dont care enough to try to understand at least the basic points of the constitution you should probably not vote at all.

Great many people in UK have regretted that they were listening to the lies and would have voted differently if they had known the facts.

As mentioned by Eric, several activists and politicians from all sides have voiced critics of the charter, often also discussed in this forum. I would be very interested (among others I guess) to know what you consider as lies?

It is very easy to pull a few sentences out of context from the draft constitution and paint doom and gloom on the wall with these, angle it to further your own agenda. Not technically lying but clearly dishonest misleading of the public.

The constitution is a document outlining checks and balances, rights, liberties and duties of the Thai people and its government. It should be read by the voters and they should then make their own mind up.

I can understand that there is an opposition among many politicians as this constitution will severely curtail their opportunities for power misuse and corruption.

I guess if you are ok with unelected PM, full appointed senators, more power to the idependent agencies and not recognizing the there are now more checks and insufficient balance and a charter written exclusively by junta appointed CDC, this is the charter for you and the establishment. But do spend some time to read the following independent opinion.

http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/tensions-likely-from-thailands-new-charter

As for me, my beliefs are that the people should be the one who decide who will be their leaders, a charter should be all inclusively written, PM must be elected, bottom up leadership and separation of power. You may have other values and beliefs.

The people will decide on who the senators should be. But instead of the people voting democratically for their favourite senator. The junta will pick the senators they like out of the candidates the people have decided should be senators.

Make sense?

Example:-

Newin Chidchob and Jatuporn and Gen Winterbottom are fielded against each other for the job of senator of Buri Ram province.

Before - The people voted Newin in.

Proposed - The army vote Gen Winterbottom in.

[candide]

If the opposes to the new constitution have to fake it to make it look bad there is something wrong.

Let each one study it by themselves and make up their decision.

The democratic UK EU referendum was completely polluted with lies, misinformation and coercion from both sides.

A decision like this should be made by each individual studying the actual draft constitution, not listening to lies or coercions from other people

You expecting the farmers and taxi drivers to study the constitution? You think the academics, non aligned activists, Dem party polticians and even former CDC members are lying? Forget about comparing to UK referendum as it is only a yes and no decision.

Most people in Thailand can read and the constitution is only about 140 pages long (English version). There is also a short version, with explanations, available. Yes, I do think people may lie. In any case they should not try to persuade other people to vote the way they want them to vote.

And if you dont care enough to try to understand at least the basic points of the constitution you should probably not vote at all.

Great many people in UK have regretted that they were listening to the lies and would have voted differently if they had known the facts.

As mentioned by Eric, several activists and politicians from all sides have voiced critics of the charter, often also discussed in this forum. I would be very interested (among others I guess) to know what you consider as lies?

It is very easy to pull a few sentences out of context from the draft constitution and paint doom and gloom on the wall with these, angle it to further your own agenda. Not technically lying but clearly dishonest misleading of the public.

The constitution is a document outlining checks and balances, rights, liberties and duties of the Thai people and its government. It should be read by the voters and they should then make their own mind up.

I can understand that there is an opposition among many politicians as this constitution will severely curtail their opportunities for power misuse and corruption.

I guess if you are ok with unelected PM, full appointed senators, more power to the idependent agencies and not recognizing the there are now more checks and insufficient balance and a charter written exclusively by junta appointed CDC, this is the charter for you and the establishment. But do spend some time to read the following independent opinion.

http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/tensions-likely-from-thailands-new-charter

As for me, my beliefs are that the people should be the one who decide who will be their leaders, a charter should be all inclusively written, PM must be elected, bottom up leadership and separation of power. You may have other values and beliefs.

Pattjock, the link provided in previous post summarises the main critics usually voiced about the charter by a variety of persons with different political orientations (PTP, dems, independent...).

Would you be so kind as to indicate what you consider as lies or "dishonestly misleading"?

[Alive]

At least they are thinking forward and coming up with excuses as to why their effort failed.

[Mudcrab]

Why do people on this forum get so wound up

.I can understand getting things of your chest....but really.

Is it the English disease being imported in to the Thai expat community?

Or just generally a bunch of grumpy old farts who have finally realised they are impotent in Thai matters but want to give it one last shot to a captive audience on TV?

Have at it gentlemen, it's quite entertaining ...in a sad, pathetic way.

[Winniedapu]

Why do people on this forum get so wound up

.I can understand getting things of your chest....but really.

Is it the English disease being imported in to the Thai expat community?

Or just generally a bunch of grumpy old farts who have finally realised they are impotent in Thai matters but want to give it one last shot to a captive audience on TV?

Have at it gentlemen, it's quite entertaining ...in a sad, pathetic way.

I imagine most contributors on TV do so for much the same reasons as you do. And as I do.

And I'm a grumpy old fart. Bah, humbug... - see?

Taking things seriously is proof of thought and the ability to think. Maintaining a gnome-like ambivalence is the domain of a milksop, unless you're Yoda. Or so my dawg says...

I don't know if he's right or wrong.but I do know he's lazy. And not very smart.

Winnie

[Holy Cinema]

Most people in Thailand can read and the constitution is only about 140 pages long (English version). There is also a short version, with explanations, available. Yes, I do think people may lie. In any case they should not try to persuade other people to vote the way they want them to vote.

And if you dont care enough to try to understand at least the basic points of the constitution you should probably not vote at all.

Great many people in UK have regretted that they were listening to the lies and would have voted differently if they had known the facts.

As mentioned by Eric, several activists and politicians from all sides have voiced critics of the charter, often also discussed in this forum. I would be very interested (among others I guess) to know what you consider as lies?

It is very easy to pull a few sentences out of context from the draft constitution and paint doom and gloom on the wall with these, angle it to further your own agenda. Not technically lying but clearly dishonest misleading of the public.

The constitution is a document outlining checks and balances, rights, liberties and duties of the Thai people and its government. It should be read by the voters and they should then make their own mind up.

I can understand that there is an opposition among many politicians as this constitution will severely curtail their opportunities for power misuse and corruption.

Yes, it has been read, only by those who matter, as in the "good people" !! how on earth are they supposed to run a referendum on a charter in 4 weeks time, when not every household has received a copy to peruse?

Hmmmm let me guess, the good old Junta and their merry little "helpers" will be there to explain to the masses, reading from a single copy, and explaining how wonderful the draft constitution is, and that the villagers will just have to take THEIR word for it? Right??

[pattjock]

I guess if you are ok with unelected PM, full appointed senators, more power to the idependent agencies and not recognizing the there are now more checks and insufficient balance and a charter written exclusively by junta appointed CDC, this is the charter for you and the establishment. But do spend some time to read the following independent opinion.

http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/tensions-likely-from-thailands-new-charter

As for me, my beliefs are that the people should be the one who decide who will be their leaders, a charter should be all inclusively written, PM must be elected, bottom up leadership and separation of power. You may have other values and beliefs.

Pattjock, the link provided in previous post summarises the main critics usually voiced about the charter by a variety of persons with different political orientations (PTP, dems, independent...).

Would you be so kind as to indicate what you consider as lies or "dishonestly misleading"?

Yes the critics come from a variety of political orientations but they are mostly politicians or involved in the political sphere. The article also says “Thai politicians have been disappointing at best and unscrupulous and abusive at worst”. The new draft constitution calls for more people with real skills to keep a check on these disappointing and unscrupulous politicians.

The original post in this thread, well organized distribution of a fake constitution draft, is just one of the things I consider lies or dishonestly misleading.

[Holy Cinema]

I guess if you are ok with unelected PM, full appointed senators, more power to the idependent agencies and not recognizing the there are now more checks and insufficient balance and a charter written exclusively by junta appointed CDC, this is the charter for you and the establishment. But do spend some time to read the following independent opinion.

http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/tensions-likely-from-thailands-new-charter

As for me, my beliefs are that the people should be the one who decide who will be their leaders, a charter should be all inclusively written, PM must be elected, bottom up leadership and separation of power. You may have other values and beliefs.

Pattjock, the link provided in previous post summarises the main critics usually voiced about the charter by a variety of persons with different political orientations (PTP, dems, independent...).

Would you be so kind as to indicate what you consider as lies or "dishonestly misleading"?

Yes the critics come from a variety of political orientations but they are mostly politicians or involved in the political sphere. The article also says “Thai politicians have been disappointing at best and unscrupulous and abusive at worst”. The new draft constitution calls for more people with real skills to keep a check on these disappointing and unscrupulous politicians.

The original post in this thread, well organized distribution of a fake constitution draft, is just one of the things I consider lies or dishonestly misleading.

Just like a lot of the junta's announcements!!

[jerojero]

Mislead, or simply oppose it. Dissent is clearly frowned upon!

[MZurf]

Why do people on this forum get so wound up

.I can understand getting things of your chest....but really.

Is it the English disease being imported in to the Thai expat community?

Or just generally a bunch of grumpy old farts who have finally realised they are impotent in Thai matters but want to give it one last shot to a captive audience on TV?

Have at it gentlemen, it's quite entertaining ...in a sad, pathetic way.

I can only speak for myself but the reason I get wound up is that I live here, have lived here for well over two decades, so what the junta is doing is directly affecting my family and I.

Now, I'm sure you don't live here but even so you should have been able to figure out that foreigners with this much invested in the country care very much about what happens in Thailand. Your inability to do so is both sad and pathetic.

[MZurf]

I guess if you are ok with unelected PM, full appointed senators, more power to the idependent agencies and not recognizing the there are now more checks and insufficient balance and a charter written exclusively by junta appointed CDC, this is the charter for you and the establishment. But do spend some time to read the following independent opinion.

http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/tensions-likely-from-thailands-new-charter

As for me, my beliefs are that the people should be the one who decide who will be their leaders, a charter should be all inclusively written, PM must be elected, bottom up leadership and separation of power. You may have other values and beliefs.

Pattjock, the link provided in previous post summarises the main critics usually voiced about the charter by a variety of persons with different political orientations (PTP, dems, independent...).

Would you be so kind as to indicate what you consider as lies or "dishonestly misleading"?

Yes the critics come from a variety of political orientations but they are mostly politicians or involved in the political sphere. The article also says “Thai politicians have been disappointing at best and unscrupulous and abusive at worst”. The new draft constitution calls for more people with real skills to keep a check on these disappointing and unscrupulous politicians.

The original post in this thread, well organized distribution of a fake constitution draft, is just one of the things I consider lies or dishonestly misleading.

"The new draft constitution calls for more people with real skills to keep a check on these disappointing and unscrupulous politicians."

And exactly who appoint these "real skill people"? Who "keep a check" on these upstanding, incorruptible and altruistic"real skill people"???

[Eric Loh]

I guess if you are ok with unelected PM, full appointed senators, more power to the idependent agencies and not recognizing the there are now more checks and insufficient balance and a charter written exclusively by junta appointed CDC, this is the charter for you and the establishment. But do spend some time to read the following independent opinion.

http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/tensions-likely-from-thailands-new-charter

As for me, my beliefs are that the people should be the one who decide who will be their leaders, a charter should be all inclusively written, PM must be elected, bottom up leadership and separation of power. You may have other values and beliefs.

Pattjock, the link provided in previous post summarises the main critics usually voiced about the charter by a variety of persons with different political orientations (PTP, dems, independent...).

Would you be so kind as to indicate what you consider as lies or "dishonestly misleading"?

Yes the critics come from a variety of political orientations but they are mostly politicians or involved in the political sphere. The article also says Thai politicians have been disappointing at best and unscrupulous and abusive at worst. The new draft constitution calls for more people with real skills to keep a check on these disappointing and unscrupulous politicians.

The original post in this thread, well organized distribution of a fake constitution draft, is just one of the things I consider lies or dishonestly misleading.

You make conclusion too fast. Selective seeing and hearing not your strong point.

Below what Meechai said.

"However, he admitted that although initially he had found part of the document's content to "lack good reason", it was not a distortion or false".

[candide]

I guess if you are ok with unelected PM, full appointed senators, more power to the idependent agencies and not recognizing the there are now more checks and insufficient balance and a charter written exclusively by junta appointed CDC, this is the charter for you and the establishment. But do spend some time to read the following independent opinion.

http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/tensions-likely-from-thailands-new-charter

As for me, my beliefs are that the people should be the one who decide who will be their leaders, a charter should be all inclusively written, PM must be elected, bottom up leadership and separation of power. You may have other values and beliefs.

Pattjock, the link provided in previous post summarises the main critics usually voiced about the charter by a variety of persons with different political orientations (PTP, dems, independent...).

Would you be so kind as to indicate what you consider as lies or "dishonestly misleading"?

Yes the critics come from a variety of political orientations but they are mostly politicians or involved in the political sphere. The article also says Thai politicians have been disappointing at best and unscrupulous and abusive at worst. The new draft constitution calls for more people with real skills to keep a check on these disappointing and unscrupulous politicians.

The original post in this thread, well organized distribution of a fake constitution draft, is just one of the things I consider lies or dishonestly misleading.

Several remarks:

- if a critic made with a political motive, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's not relevant or that they are lies or dishonestly misleading. Apparently you did not find lies or dishonestly misleading critics in the straitstimes article, although they are regularly voiced by politicians

- I agree that Thai politicians have been disappointing at best and unscrupulous and abusive at worst. For me it applies to nearly anybody that has been involved in governing the country. It surely includes the current bunch in power.

- Relatedly, who is not involved in the political sphere in Thailand: the army Meechai, bureaucrats?

- Relatedly, the proposed charter gives power to appointed people over elected people (and appointed by whom? ). During the Thai political history (including the current period), have appointed people been exempt of political motives?

[Eligius]

Mislead, or simply oppose it. Dissent is clearly frowned upon!

Yes. If you give 'false information' about the draft Constitution, you can find yourself in breach of the law. Of course, we all know who decides what constitutes 'false information'. If your blood pressure can stand it and you can control yourself from throwing bricks at your computer screen, you can watch a very recent 'explanation' before a largely Western audience of how wonderfully free the Thais are to discuss the Constitution and its Referendum. A key member of the Election Commission (marvellous fellow - should be hailed as an exemplar of moral integrity, justice and rectitude) can be heard answering questions on this whole topic here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOb6VSpAU7g

Edited July 9, 2016 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal.

[rubl]

Interesting especially as the Thai version of the draft has been available since end of March.

Seems all those who were against without bothering to read now feel the pressure growing. At least we now have an (unofficial) English translation. Mind you, I was told you can be against without needing to read.

Unofficial English version, with many thanks to Winsonandson

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/930488-pm-says-someone-fund-the-publication-of-fake-draft-charter-copies/#entry10940119

Edited July 9, 2016 by rubl

[SABloke]

What, no hints as to who is behind this campaign ?

Cue Men at Work, "Who Could It Be Now"

Why don't you spell it out for us, Sherlock. Come on, we know you're dying to say the name of the bogeyman!

Freddy Krueger

[MZurf]

What, no hints as to who is behind this campaign ?

Cue Men at Work, "Who Could It Be Now"

Why don't you spell it out for us, Sherlock. Come on, we know you're dying to say the name of the bogeyman!

Freddy Krueger

Oh no, someone much, much worse.

[MZurf]

Interesting especially as the Thai version of the draft has been available since end of March.

Seems all those who were against without bothering to read now feel the pressure growing. At least we now have an (unofficial) English translation. Mind you, I was told you can be against without needing to read.

Unofficial English version, with many thanks to Winsonandson

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/930488-pm-says-someone-fund-the-publication-of-fake-draft-charter-copies/#entry10940119

" Seems all those who were against without bothering to read now feel the pressure growing."

5555555555! Yes, the pressure is unbearable!

[tbthailand]

I suspects a well-organised attempt by the government, the CDC, the EC, the five rivers, etc.... to mislead public about the draft charter.

you said all that needs to be said...

[rubl]

I suspects a well-organised attempt by the government, the CDC, the EC, the five rivers, etc.... to mislead public about the draft charter.

you said all that needs to be said...

Totally agree, my dear tbthailand. The usual government conspiracy theories. Maybe an indication that other nonsense here didn't work.

[Eric Loh]

I suspects a well-organised attempt by the government, the CDC, the EC, the five rivers, etc.... to mislead public about the draft charter.

you said all that needs to be said...

Totally agree, my dear tbthailand. The usual government conspiracy theories. Maybe an indication that other nonsense here didn't work.

Actually it's quite fun and also funny to see the government and their agencies tripping all over in their policies to try steer the public to their sides while the same policies from the oppositions are threatened and arrested.

We see the paranoid CDC chair whining about fraud draft and PM right on que threatened legal arrest and the standard accusation of political masterminds. Then for the CDC chair to admit that it may not be fraud but difference in opinion and the NDM openly admitting that they are behind the print. Don't they feel silly or perhaps too drunk with power to rush into making rash statement.

I love the EC song and then force to change the lyrics. Silly lap dog. Oh, the UDD peace center has been plagiarized by the junta. The former is against the law but the former is ok. Funny.

What the government and their agencies are doing daily with their antics will only arouse the people to vote and that will not to be their advantage. The less people vote, the better the chance the charter will get a positive result. The 2007 referendum testified to that when only the South and Bangkokian voted and very little from the north. Now the young voters will also be aroused to vote and will likely to side with the NDM.

[Winniedapu]

I suspects a well-organised attempt by the government, the CDC, the EC, the five rivers, etc.... to mislead public about the draft charter.

you said all that needs to be said...

Totally agree, my dear tbthailand. The usual government conspiracy theories. Maybe an indication that other nonsense here didn't work.

Actually it's quite fun and also funny to see the government and their agencies tripping all over in their policies to try steer the public to their sides while the same policies from the oppositions are threatened and arrested.

We see the paranoid CDC chair whining about fraud draft and PM right on que threatened legal arrest and the standard accusation of political masterminds. Then for the CDC chair to admit that it may not be fraud but difference in opinion and the NDM openly admitting that they are behind the print. Don't they feel silly or perhaps too drunk with power to rush into making rash statement.

I love the EC song and then force to change the lyrics. Silly lap dog. Oh, the UDD peace center has been plagiarized by the junta. The former is against the law but the former is ok. Funny.

What the government and their agencies are doing daily with their antics will only arouse the people to vote and that will not to be their advantage. The less people vote, the better the chance the charter will get a positive result. The 2007 referendum testified to that when only the South and Bangkokian voted and very little from the north. Now the young voters will also be aroused to vote and will likely to side with the NDM.

How to look like complete fools in 20 minutes.

These muppets should write a book. It would sell ohh. 20 or 30 copies. easy...

Winnie

[rubl]

Totally agree, my dear tbthailand. The usual government conspiracy theories. Maybe an indication that other nonsense here didn't work.

Actually it's quite fun and also funny to see the government and their agencies tripping all over in their policies to try steer the public to their sides while the same policies from the oppositions are threatened and arrested.

We see the paranoid CDC chair whining about fraud draft and PM right on que threatened legal arrest and the standard accusation of political masterminds. Then for the CDC chair to admit that it may not be fraud but difference in opinion and the NDM openly admitting that they are behind the print. Don't they feel silly or perhaps too drunk with power to rush into making rash statement.

I love the EC song and then force to change the lyrics. Silly lap dog. Oh, the UDD peace center has been plagiarized by the junta. The former is against the law but the former is ok. Funny.

What the government and their agencies are doing daily with their antics will only arouse the people to vote and that will not to be their advantage. The less people vote, the better the chance the charter will get a positive result. The 2007 referendum testified to that when only the South and Bangkokian voted and very little from the north. Now the young voters will also be aroused to vote and will likely to side with the NDM.

How to look like complete fools in 20 minutes.

These muppets should write a book. It would sell ohh. 20 or 30 copies. easy...

Winnie

You two are doing quite nicely. Interesting that Thai seem to know nothing while you guys know all, as suggest you know.

So, a document which tries to circumvent rules by using the same cover as that used by the CDC. Luckily no one claimed copyright

Edited July 11, 2016 by rubl