Social Security from US

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

Wow.   I am sure thousands upon thousands of seniors don't have cell phones.  I guess I am glad I own a lot ATT stock because now the government is forcing people to basically have cell phones and the resultant data plans.  And in my case, when overseas I do NOT use my USA cell phone because the overseas plan and prices are crap.  I just use a little old fashioned Thai cell phone that I do not list as any sort of contact phone.  I don't have a great need to access the SSN site yet, but it is good to be aware of future issues.

 

Thanks guys

 

You don't necessarily need an actual U.S. mobile phone in order to receive the SMSs...

 

But, at a minimum, you would need something like a U.S. Google Voice account, register it with a regular U.S. phone of some variety, and then install the Google Voice app on your Thai Android phone. Doing that would allow you to receive U.S. SMSs to your Google Voice app.

[gk10002000]

I understand.  But I wouldn't want to keep changing phone numbers and confusing the SSN administration.  And I don't have an Android or Smart phone.  I am an old fashioned engineer and like my cheap flip top cell phone.  I still remember using pay phones here in the USA and having a cell phone in my pocket is to me the bee's knees and has been perfectly adequate for the last 15 years.

 

Thanks

[CaptHaddock]

8 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

As I mentioned earlier, you can expect to see more and more federal agencies and other sensitive businesses, like banks and such, adding multi-factor authentication to their online log-ins.

 

The unusual part about SS's recent move is they've begun to do MFA with only a SINGLE available method for the second factor, and that's SMSing to a U.S. phone.

 

Usually, when entities implement MFA, they do it by offering a choice of several various second factors that can be used, such as receiving an email, getting an SMS, receiving a voice call with a code, etc etc. Usually, for most Americans, they're going to have access to at least ONE of those various options.

 

But apparently in this case, SSA felt they could go ahead with only the SMS approach, perhaps forgetting that there are many many (tens or hundreds of thousands?) of Americans who live outside the U.S. around the globe -- and not all of them keep U.S. mobile numbers capable of receiving U.S. SMSs.

 

The problem with the SSA's current switch to MFA is that it does not plug the biggest security hole they have, which is that anyone can open an account in your name with your SS# and claim your benefits.  When I opened my account the information I provided to identify myself was more or less public information.  Even my SS# is hardly secret since I have been providing to employers for years.  I decided to open an account immediately on hearing that the SSA had started offering them for the express purpose of preventing a thief from creating one in my name.

 

The two-factor SMS solution probably helps security, but it isn't enough.

[Pib]

10 hours ago, CaptHaddock said:

 

The problem with the SSA's current switch to MFA is that it does not plug the biggest security hole they have, which is that anyone can open an account in your name with your SS# and claim your benefits.  When I opened my account the information I provided to identify myself was more or less public information.  Even my SS# is hardly secret since I have been providing to employers for years.  I decided to open an account immediately on hearing that the SSA had started offering them for the express purpose of preventing a thief from creating one in my name.

 

The two-factor SMS solution probably helps security, but it isn't enough.

 

What do you mean by "....express purpose of preventing a thief...?"  Maybe you mean it would just provide you some additional info which wold help to identify if something fishy was going on?

 

You don't apply for social security via your account; you apply at a separate SSA webpage....no account needed to apply.  An online account is really more of a nice-to-have/convenience/info type thing.

[CaptHaddock]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

 

What do you mean by "....express purpose of preventing a thief...?"  Maybe you mean it would just provide you some additional info which wold help to identify if something fishy was going on?

 

You don't apply for social security via your account; you apply at a separate SSA webpage....no account needed to apply.  An online account is really more of a nice-to-have/convenience/info type thing.

 

Uh-oh.  Does that mean that my benefits are still at risk?  Have you applied for benefits?  How do they verify the bona fides of the applicant?

[Pib]

38 minutes ago, CaptHaddock said:

 

Uh-oh.  Does that mean that my benefits are still at risk?  Have you applied for benefits?  How do they verify the bona fides of the applicant?

No I haven't, but will be all too soon.  Will go the Manila route most likely (have even talked to them on the phone twice very recently in preparation)...but as Manila told me I could also just apply online...up to me which way I go.

 

Signing up with Manila is just a simple one-page form to start the process...they then schedule a telephone interview to get more info/do the verification/maybe ask for more docs.  If you do the online application that a much more detailed form...easy...just more details...I have a completed the application...have it saved online at the SSA application webpage...just need to electronically sign it for submission like you do a tax return done via tax software.

 

But basically the evaluation of the application is where the verification occurs.  And as mentioned, you can not submit an application from your online account as it's not made for that....it just for some info and some basic tasks.

[Choice]

Hello if u can try n call ss in us for correct info .good luck !!

[KonaRain]

Maybe the two their verification is optional?

If You get Direct Express, federal debit card..

Google it,

You'll be safe for the small price of..

a few thousand baht per month!

Ouch!

[Pib]

14 hours ago, Choice said:

Hello if u can try n call ss in us for correct info .good luck !!

Called the U.S. number two times around two weeks ago...called from here in Bangkok.  Each time they said my queue time to talk to a rep would be X-amount.  I still remember...55 minutes for first call....35 minutes for second call.  Said I could wait in queue or request a call back.  I requested a call back and each call back occurred within minutes of the estimated call back time which was within one hour.  Asked my questions...got the answers (answers I already knew but the calls were just a test of the system).

 

Also called the U.S. Embassy Manila Social Security Office two times a few weeks ago....got right through and was talking to SS rep within a few minutes.  Asked my questions....got my answers.  Once again this was a test.

 

Summary: calls to both the U.S. number and their Manila office worked out well...successful tests....your results may vary.

[Pib]

8 hours ago, KonaRain said:

Maybe the two their verification is optional?

If You get Direct Express, federal debit card..

Google it,

You'll be safe for the small price of..

a few thousand baht per month!

Ouch!

The two tier verification is no longer optional to log onto your social security account.

 

Yeap, use of the Direct Express card is expensive outside the U.S.  A withdrawal from a Thai bank ATM would incur the Bt200 Thai bank User Fee, and then from Direct Express a 3% plus $3 fee.  Definitely expensive to use the Direct Express card outside the U.S.

 

A person would be much better off have their social security pension direct deposited to an American Express BlueBird account.  Then using an AxEx Bluebird card they could withdraw the funds from Thai ATMs that accept AmEx cards (like Bangkok Bank ATMs) for Bt50 Thai ATM User fee (not the Bt200 fee) and a $2.50 charge by AmEx.

[IMA_FARANG]

As i said before, I have a direct deposit of my Social Security  pension to my Bangkok Bank account simce Septembe 2014.

My mailing address is in Thailand and I am mailed that questionaire which asks how many hours I work....which i always anser none, as i don't work, i have been retired since 2010.

i also recieve my SSA annual benefitds ststement at my Thai adress every year.

I am not allowed to open a online account with Social Security as I do not have a U.S. address but only  a Thai mailing adress.

I  have found th SSA Manila office to be far more friendly and reliable han any SSA office in the U.S.

Manla was where they helped me in getting my Thai mailing address accepted by he Social Securitty and in setting up my direct deposit account to Bangkok Bank.

Others may disagree, but so far it's working for me, and i have no use toever talk to those losers in the SSA in the U.S.

 

[JimGant]

Quote

You don't apply for social security via your account; you apply at a separate SSA webpage....no account needed to apply.  An online account is really more of a nice-to-have/convenience/info type thing.

 

According to the following article, an online account is more than a nice-to-have feature, and should be established right after applying for benefits. Otherwise, a crook could establish your online account for you -- and have your benefits re-directed.

 

Quote

In the most recent scam, identity thieves obtain the personal information of Social Security beneficiaries and use that information to attempt to open a ‘my Social Security’ account on SSA’s website.  If successful, they then use that account to redirect the beneficiary’s direct deposit benefits to an account controlled by the thief.... in fact establishing your account eliminates the risk of a new account being opened by an identity thief.  https://oig.ssa.gov/newsroom/news-releases/may3advisory

 

[Pib]

Heck, a scammer could call SS to get the direct deposit redirected.  I expect (hope) SS would ask some questions to try to confirm it was you....but based on my experience over the years when contacting banks/financial companies via phone to change something the type of question they ask to confirm it's you may not be that hard.    Sometimes, they ask what your current approx current, or what was the approx amount of the last deposit, etc.   It's scary sometimes how easy it can be if some one has some basic knowledge of you.

 

https://faq.ssa.gov/link/portal/34011/34019/Article/3825/How-can-I-sign-up-for-or-change-direct-deposit-for-my-Social-Security-or-Supplemental-Security-Income-SSI-payments

 

Quote

 

How can I change or sign up for direct deposit for my Social Security or Supplemental Security Income (SSI) payments?

If you already receive benefits and you have a bank account, you can change or sign up for your direct deposit by:

• Setting up a my Social Security account and starting or changing your direct deposit online (Social Security benefits only);
• Contacting your bank, credit union or savings and loan association; or
• Calling Social Security at 1-800-772-1213 (TTY 1-800-325-0778).

 

•  

 

[Thaidream]

Social Security finally got the message. They have dropped the SMS requirement due to overwhelming resistance and complaints from the account holders.  Their arrogance did them in- mandating this system without adequate planning; dropping it on customers within a 2 day notice; and not doing their homework and giving their customers a variety of authentication choices. Good riddance to it and I hope their senior administrator got her butt chewed.

[JimGant]

probably figured out Maude Frickert and her knitting club couldn't get an SMS on their party line dial phones.

[Pib]

I just logged onto my SS account....no security code required....just you User ID and password.  Wonder if it's temporary or a permanent change in dropping the security code requirement?   They definitely implemented it too fast....with very, very little warning....and then they even implemented it before August like their last minutes heads up said the implementation would begin.

 

When the SSA implemented the policy of you can only get your social security statement (like the annual one they use to send you automatically) via your online account or visiting a social security office that only lasted about a year before they then also allowed you to also mail in a request and the get statement via mail (talks about 6 weeks from mail in to receipt of the statement)....had to do that once for the wife when we just couldn't get an online account activated for her but that has since been overcome.

 

I have several U.S. govt online accounts and Social Security has been the only one that briefly implemented the security code via SMS requirement.   Me thinks the Executive Order where it says: "...ensure that all agencies making personal data accessible to citizens through digital applications require the use of multiple factors of authentication and an effective identity proofing process, as appropriate..."  can be interpreted/implemented various ways versus just defaulting to SMS via mobile phone....multiple factors of authentication doesn't necessary dictate logon security codes via SMS.  

 

Or maybe an implementation extension in the executive order has been given to avoid pissing off a bunch of people especially older folks who vote at high rates just before the election in November...most of the pissed-off people would probably blame/vote against the Democrats since Barry is a Democrat and currently in power (i.e., blame the Prez/party in power, right or wrong).   But I'm sure Donald will find a way to complain this is just a way for Hillary to get more votes...say the election is rigged against him.

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/10/17/executive-order-improving-security-consumer-financial-transactions

[Pib]

17 hours ago, JimGant said:

probably figured out Maude Frickert and her knitting club couldn't get an SMS on their party line dial phones.

I just called Maude to explain how she could get a Google Voice number so she could get the SMS....she  told me to kiss her ass....tough ol' bird.  And when she said that I'm pretty sure the whole neighborhood was listening in on the party line because I heard bunch of giggles.  

[Pib]

Looks like the SSA has made the 2 factor logon purely optional....not just temporarily going back to the old method where no security code via SMS was a hard requirement.   Didn't take them long to flip-flop...caught the Donald Trump disease I guess.  

 

https://www.ssa.gov/myaccount/

 

And when you logon your account now (to security code via SMS req'd) to implement optional 2 factor logon there is a process you must go through to implement it....some identity verification questions and then they mail you a letter so you can completed the setup.  I will not be doing this...to each his own...I'm with Maude.  

 

 

[Pib]

Just got this email from Social Security basically  saying "never mind"...sorry for putting everyone through this....we'll try again in around 6 months with another approach, but for those who want to use the SMS 2 factor logon approach please do.   Let's just hope the new approach is not worst or equally restrictive as the SMS logon approach.  

 

Quote

 

On July 30, 2016, we began requiring you to sign into your my Social Security account using a one-time code sent via text message. We implemented this new layer of security, known as “multifactor authentication,” in compliance with a Presidential executive order to improve the security of consumer financial transactions.  SSA implemented the improvements aggressively because we have a fundamental responsibility to protect the public’s personal information.

 

However, multifactor authentication inconvenienced or restricted access to some of our account holders. We’re listening to your concerns and are responding by temporarily rolling back this mandate.

 

As before July 30, you can now access your secure account using only your username and password. We highly recommend the extra security text message option, but it is not required. We’re developing an alternative authentication option, besides text messaging, that we’ll begin implementing within the next six months.

 

We strive to balance security and customer service options, and we want to ensure that our online services are both easy to use and secure. The my Social Security service has always featured a robust verification and authentication process, and it remains safe and secure.

We regret any inconvenience you may have experienced.

 

There is no requirement that you access your personal my Social Security account as a result of the steps we are taking.  However, when you do access your account, we encourage you to sign up for the extra security text message option.  You can access your account by visiting www.socialsecurity.gov/myaccount.

 

 

[KonaRain]

As I said..
Let's make it optional!
ALOHA
(Thanks, Guys..)

[Pib]

I was reading a news article about living overseas which had a link to this Social Security Agency webpage/stat showing the number of folks drawing Social Security benefits who live outside the U.S.  (i.e, expats) as of 2014.   For Thailand, it's 5,306 folks (come pretty soon I may increase that number by 1)....the Philippines has 27,909....Japan 64,524....see below link for all countries listed.   Over $6M (around Bt210M) per month in SS benefits flowing to beneficiaries in Thailand.

 

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/supplement/2015/5j.html#table5.j11 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2016 by Pib

[ubonjoe]

15 hours ago, Pib said:

I was reading a news article about living overseas which had a link to this Social Security Agency webpage/stat showing the number of folks drawing Social Security benefits who live outside the U.S.  (i.e, expats) as of 2014.   For Thailand, it's 5,306 folks (come pretty soon I may increase that number by 1)....the Philippines has 27,909....Japan 64,524....see below link for all countries listed.   Over $6M (around Bt210M) per month in SS benefits flowing to beneficiaries in Thailand.

 

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/supplement/2015/5j.html#table5.j11 

 

 

I wonder how many are here that are not shown because they are not using an address here with SSA.

[Pib]

I wouldn't be afraid to guess it's at least double.

 

I would also think that since Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank with ACH receiving capability (ACH used by govt for most monthly govt pension/benefits payments & low cost adhoc transfers) that Bangkok Bank makes a pretty penny in ACH transfer fees monthly for govt direct deposits and just people doing adhoc ACH  transfers from their U.S. banks.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Pib

[Boon Mee]

Have you guys seen this?

 

IRS doesn't tell 1 million taxpayers that illegals stole their Social Security numbers...

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/30/irs-doesnt-tell-1-million-taxpayers-that-illegal-i/

 

Not good...

[SaintLouisBlues]

On 8/17/2016 at 3:15 PM, Thaidream said:

Social Security finally got the message. They have dropped the SMS requirement due to overwhelming resistance and complaints from the account holders.  Their arrogance did them in- mandating this system without adequate planning; dropping it on customers within a 2 day notice; and not doing their homework and giving their customers a variety of authentication choices. Good riddance to it and I hope their senior administrator got her butt chewed.

That and the recognition that 2-factor via SMS is subject to hacking because SMS is inherently insecure (don't trust me, let Google be your friend)

[SaintLouisBlues]

On 8/17/2016 at 3:15 PM, Thaidream said:

Social Security finally got the message. They have dropped the SMS requirement due to overwhelming resistance and complaints from the account holders.  Their arrogance did them in- mandating this system without adequate planning; dropping it on customers within a 2 day notice; and not doing their homework and giving their customers a variety of authentication choices. Good riddance to it and I hope their senior administrator got her butt chewed.

That and the recognition that 2-factor via SMS is subject to hacking because SMS is inherently insecure (don't trust me, let Google be your friend)

[SaintLouisBlues]

On 8/5/2016 at 3:51 PM, Pib said:

The two tier verification is no longer optional to log onto your social security account.

 

Yeap, use of the Direct Express card is expensive outside the U.S.  A withdrawal from a Thai bank ATM would incur the Bt200 Thai bank User Fee, and then from Direct Express a 3% plus $3 fee.  Definitely expensive to use the Direct Express card outside the U.S.

 

A person would be much better off have their social security pension direct deposited to an American Express BlueBird account.  Then using an AxEx Bluebird card they could withdraw the funds from Thai ATMs that accept AmEx cards (like Bangkok Bank ATMs) for Bt50 Thai ATM User fee (not the Bt200 fee) and a $2.50 charge by AmEx.

Have you used an Amex Bluebird account for this purpose? Does the SSA direct deposit to a Bluebird account? Their FAQs say you must be resident in the USA to apply.

Has anyone successfully linked their Direct Express card to their PayPal account and used it to fund their PayPal wallet and then transfer the funds to a Thai bank account?

[Pib]

I personally do not have an AmEx Bluebird card, but yes you can have your SSA deposited to your Bluebird account.  I never got one simply because I have a couple of no foreign transaction fee U.S. bank debit cards that reimburse ATM fees.  But if I didn't have such cards I would have already got a AmEx Bluebird card.

 

And yes, you must have a U.S. residence address which is common for many financial accounts/getting cards and  AmEx Bluebird will only mail the cards to that U.S. Residential address.  This is where you would need to use a family member/friend's address if you no longer have an actual U.S. address....once again, a common thing in setting up financial accounts/getting cards for years now....nothing new about that.  It varies from bank/company-to-bank/company as to if they will mail their products outside the U.S.  

 

Heck, just for an example of needing to have a U.S. residential address to get a "U.S. phone line product" just a month ago I wanted to get a MagicJack VOIP adpater/U.S. phone number....MagicJack only accepts  and mails to U.S. addresses but on their website they also say you can order and remail the MagicJack to your friend overseas...I ordered and had the order mailed to a relative who remailed it to me.  I have since received the MagicJack and setup it up no problem here in Bangkok giving me another U.S. phone number and SMS/text sending/receiving capability with the MJ app....works great.  And when paying for the annual MJ service paying for it online is not linked to your U.S. residential address....you can pay via credit/debit card with a different address.    It's just the "mailing" of the product is limited to the U.S.    And one more example, I just got a T-Mobile SIM U.S. number...once again, they will only mail to a U.S. address....I ordered...had it remailed to me...have since received it, setup it up (works fine), and prepaid x-amount online with my credit card...the U.S. residential thing just deals with ordering/shipping the product since it involves a "U.S. phone number. This MJ and T-Mobile stories is just for example in how some companies will only accept and mail to U.S. addresses although their products/services can be used outside the U.S....if I wanted to write to more I could give you some financial account examples....it's like just getting through their front door but after than you can move around their house freely and totally welcomed.

 

Yeap, the Direct Express card is fine for use within the U.S. but is very expensive to use outside the U.S. due to it's foreign transaction fees.

 

Just a comment about your question about linking your Direct Express card to a PayPal account so you could transfer funds to your "Thai" PayPal account.  Keep in mind when U.S. dollars flow to a Thai PayPay account although the "direct" transfer fee is low/zero, PayPal automatically converts the dollars to baht (you have no choice in this matter) and  you get the low/crappy PayPal exchange rate (that's where PayPal rapes you in their low exchange rate).

 

See below regarding Direct Deposit for govt benefit payments into your BlueBird account...more details in other areas of their website regarding adding funds to the account, direct deposit, etc....a very thorough webste IMO.

https://www.bluebird.com/faqs/?intlink=us-bluebird-marketing-home-prospectslp-jun2015prospects-footer-faqs#deposit-money

Edited September 2, 2016 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 8/28/2016 at 8:55 PM, Pib said:

I was reading a news article about living overseas which had a link to this Social Security Agency webpage/stat showing the number of folks drawing Social Security benefits who live outside the U.S.  (i.e, expats) as of 2014.   For Thailand, it's 5,306 folks (come pretty soon I may increase that number by 1)....the Philippines has 27,909....Japan 64,524....see below link for all countries listed.   Over $6M (around Bt210M) per month in SS benefits flowing to beneficiaries in Thailand.

 

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/supplement/2015/5j.html#table5.j11

 

 

That's an interesting chart, Pib, leaving aside the issue of expats who live abroad, but use a U.S. address for their SS payments.

 

But what really struck me about the chart was seeing the various countries with larger retired U.S. worker numbers than Thailand -- like Japan, Germany, France, Greece, Italy and the UK, among others -- and wondering what kind of visa/permissions to stay are so many retired Americans obtaining for those countries??? None of those countries have reputations as being amenable retirement destinations for U.S. expats AFAIK.

 

[augustwest]

I deal with RRB screw the SS