Unable to stop Syria's war, US offers Russia new partnership

[webfact]

Unable to stop Syria's war, US offers Russia new partnership
By BRADLEY KLAPPER

MOSCOW (AP) — The United States on Thursday offered Russia a broad new military partnership in Syria, hoping the attraction of a unified campaign against the Islamic State group and al-Qaida — and a Russian commitment to ground Syria's bombers — could end five years of civil war. If finalized, the deal could dramatically alter America's role in the conflict.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry met Russian President Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin on Thursday to present him the new ideas. The eight-page proposal, which The Washington Post published on its website, shows the U.S. offering intelligence and targeting sharing, and even joint bombing operations. It is a pact Moscow long had wanted, but the Obama administration resisted.

"Hopefully we'll be able to make some genuine progress that is measurable and implementable and that can make a difference in the course of events in Syria," Kerry said.

Putin said he was looking for "tangible results."

The proposal would undercut months of U.S. criticism of Russia's military actions in Syria, and put the United States alongside Syrian President Bashar Assad's chief international backer, despite years of American demands for the to leave power.

Russia would get what it has wanted since intervening in Syria on Assad's behalf last September: leadership of an international anti-terrorism alliance.

Much of Washington is wary about working too closely with Russia. A dissent cable signed by 51 State Department officials last month showed a sizable part of America's diplomatic establishment believing a U.S. military response against Assad's forces was necessary.

Opposition to this latest Syria plan is shared by a significant number of officials at the State Department and the Pentagon and among U.S. intelligence agencies, according to several American officials.

In Washington, White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Russia had to limit its targeting to extremist groups such as IS and the Nusra Front, al-Qaida's Syrian affiliate, and not the more moderate opposition forces fighting Assad's government.

"There's a clear contradiction in Russia's approach to this situation," Earnest said. While Moscow often talks about terrorism, he said it uses its "military might to prop up the Assad regime at the expense, or in some cases even to the detriment, of our efforts to go after extremists."

Defense Secretary Ash Carter has questions about Russian activities in Syria, his spokesman, Peter Cook, said Thursday. If the Russians are prepared to do the right thing, Carter would then "be open to that conversation."

"We're not conducting or coordinating any military operations with Russia at this moment," Cook added. "And it's not clear that we'll ever reach an agreement to do so."

Earlier this week, Russia struck camps housing displaced persons and U.S.-backed Free Syrian Army fighters. A U.S. counterterrorism official said there was no presence of IS or Nusra fighters near the camps hit Tuesday. The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to publicly discuss the issue, said the camps hit had no strategic value.

The Obama administration has few alternatives to working with Russia right now.

Suggestions of U.S. force don't carry much weight, given the unfulfilled threats throughout the war. There were declarations five years ago that Assad's days were "numbered," and President Barack Obama vowed a military response if chemical weapons were used, then backed down in 2013.

The proposed U.S.-Russian "Joint Implementation Group" would be based near Amman, Jordan. At its most basic level, the former Cold War foes would share intelligence and targeting information. They "should coordinate procedures to permit integrated operations" if the U.S. and Russia decide such operations are in their interests, the leaked document said.

The proposal would address one of the most persistent problems with enforcing a cease-fire in Syria: the Nusra Front. The group is engaged in a variety of local alliances with other rebel groups the U.S. and its Arab allies want shielded by the cessation of hostilities. Nusra's fighters are often embedded with such groups on the battlefield or move between various militant formations.

For that reason, the U.S. has almost entirely avoided bombing Nusra targets in recent months. Russia hasn't hesitated. As Russia has taken out Nusra forces, the U.S. says Russia also has killed hundreds of moderate, anti-Assad fighters and civilians, undermining chances for peaceful diplomacy.

The new offer represents a new recognition by the U.S. that Nusra must be defeated to end the fighting. Its offensives southwest of Aleppo have been viewed as particularly damaging to the truce.

The document puts responsibility on Russia to get Syria's air force out of the sky, with some limited exceptions. It would subject Russian strikes against vetted Nusra targets to American approval.

Moscow's biggest responsibility would be one it has been reluctant to assume: getting Assad to start a political transition that ends his family's four-decade hold over the country. Russia supports the vague idea of "transition," but has never publicly spoken of Assad having to resign.

Reactions among U.S.-backed rebel groups in Syria were mixed.

Capt. Abdelsalam Abdurrazek, a spokesman for Nur al-Din Zenki, a CIA-screened rebel entity fighting near Aleppo, decried the U.S. for offering "to support an ally of the Syrian regime and an enemy of the Syrian people." He said his group would continue fighting alongside Nusra.

Mozahem al-Saloum of the New Syrian Army, which is fighting IS in eastern Syria, blamed Nusra for paving the way for IS, and said the U.S. plan could work if it guarantees Assad's departure. Al-Saloum, the group's spokesman, demanded "an immediate transitional period."

___

Associated Press writers Sarah El Deeb in Beirut, and Deb Riechmann and Lolita C. Baldor in Washington contributed to this story.

Source: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/8276f97e8c6740e8b50312812e1f666e/leaked-proposal-us-offering-russia-military-pact-syria


-- (c) Associated Press 2016-07-15

[Mosha]

In other words, we've stuffed up help us out.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[Usernames]

So, Obama is adopting Trump's foreign policy for Syria. What happened to all the people trashing Trump about working with Putin there?

[williamgeorgeallen]

dont see how this can work but it is worth a try. what a mess.

[Berkshire]

So, Obama is adopting Trump's foreign policy for Syria. What happened to all the people trashing Trump about working with Putin there?

What? Trump has never had a coherent plan for Syria, other than to bomb the shit out of ISIS and take the oil. As for Putin, it's always been a bromance...but only if Putin says nice things about Trump.

[TimTang]

So, Obama is adopting Trump's foreign policy for Syria. What happened to all the people trashing Trump about working with Putin there?

What? Trump has never had a coherent plan for Syria, other than to bomb the shit out of ISIS and take the oil. As for Putin, it's always been a bromance...but only if Putin says nice things about Trump.

The oil belongs to Syria and the Syrian people. Show me where Trump said he's going to take Syria's oil. You're just making stuff up.

[Calach]

So much time lost... what a giant waste.

All for the obsession of removing a secular dictator, perhaps they finally realized that politics in the Middle East are not as much about the Greater good than they are about the Lesser evil.

[Kiwiken]

So much time lost... what a giant waste.

All for the obsession of removing a secular dictator, perhaps they finally realized that politics in the Middle East are not as much about the Greater good than they are about the Lesser evil.

A Secular Dictator who is not an immediate threat to the Wider World is better than a Popular Charismatic Leader who incites his followers to spread Holy war against all the unbelievers where ever they are. So often We see the Toppling of Supposed evil Regimes (Iraq) (Libya) only to see the so called peoples Leaders to be fundamentally more evil than the imagined threat Our Governments decried.

[Berkshire]

So, Obama is adopting Trump's foreign policy for Syria. What happened to all the people trashing Trump about working with Putin there?

What? Trump has never had a coherent plan for Syria, other than to bomb the shit out of ISIS and take the oil. As for Putin, it's always been a bromance...but only if Putin says nice things about Trump.

The oil belongs to Syria and the Syrian people. Show me where Trump said he's going to take Syria's oil. You're just making stuff up.

Geez man, where have you been? He's repeated it over and over again....

Are you going to admit that you're wrong?

[Scott]

Conspiracy based posts have been removed. If you are going to post such stuff, please post a link.

[TimTang]

So much time lost... what a giant waste.

All for the obsession of removing a secular dictator, perhaps they finally realized that politics in the Middle East are not as much about the Greater good than they are about the Lesser evil.

The main reason for the war in Syria is that Turkey, Saudi, Qatar, UAE and the US would like to build a natural gas pipeline from Qatar to Turkey but Assad refused to let them cross Syria. This pipeline would effectively end the monopoly that Russia now has supplying natural gas to Europe. Iran would also like to build a pipeline to the Mediterranean which Assad is OK with but they also need to go through Iraq, which could be problematic.

Russia has been a Syrian ally for about 4 decades and is the ONLY legitimate fighting force currently in Syria apart from the SAA. The Russians are friendly with Assad and want him to remain the leader but they also are acting in their own self interest because they would prefer that neither pipeline is built, which makes sense because most countries operate in their own best interest. Given a choice they would prefer that the Iranian pipeline be built but they wouldn't destroy a sovereign nation in the process; something the current US administration has no problem with.

The Gulf states would prefer Clinton win the election so their greedy plans can come to fruition. The Saudi's are funding about 20% of the Clinton campaign plus have contributed billions to the Clinton foundation to make sure that the war in Syrian continues until Assad is gone.

[nausea]

Real-Politik, in action.

[Thian]

Last decade our friends gave us this war plus a worldcrisis. And they are still our friends.

They better start cleaning up their act now, what were they waiting for?

[mcdiddly]

When has it ever been Americas responsibility to stop this war? We are there to advise and reinforce the joint task force made up of many countries. We welcome Russian forces. Please get you fact strait before writing a ridiculous headline like that. Oh but I forget .. it's Fox

Edited July 15, 2016 by mcdiddly

[Kiwiken]

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/western-firms-plan-to-cash-in-on-syria-s-oil-and-gas-frontier-6c5fa4a72a92#.yr692tzc0

The US Army SSI report noted that Syria’s offshore resources are part of a wider matrix of oil and gas deposits in the Levant basin encompassing the offshore territories of these competing states.

The region is estimated to hold approximately 1.7 billion barrels of oil and 122 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, which could be just a third of the basin’s total hydrocarbons.

US-led military intervention has a key role to play, the report concludes, in “managing” conflicts and tensions in the Eastern Mediterranean, especially the prospect of “Syria destabilising into de facto civil war.”

Given the believed quantities of Oil and Gas off Syria why do so many say this is not a War about Oil and Gas

[Calach]

When has it ever been Americas responsibility to stop this war? We are there to advise and reinforce the joint task force made up of many countries. We welcome Russian forces. Please get you fact strait before writing a ridiculous headline like that. Oh but I forget .. it's Fox

Since they have unleashed this chaos by destroying the Iraqi state and pushing its former leaders into jihadists' arms.

[SOTIRIOS]

....how would you like to wake up with a group of armed strangers in your living room....

...telling you what you can...and cannot do.....or you are dead.....???

[chilli42]

This strikes me as a very bad idea. To this point, Russia has been free to act in any manner they wish. These actions, in combination with the Syrian army, has led to substantial results/progress. Of course, it has led to misery and starvation for the civilians caught in the middle. At first blush, joining forces seems an excellent way to speed the end of the conflict and put an end to the suffering of the Syrian people. However, when you think about getting in bed with the Americans and having to live with their political correctness and attempt to achieve a successful outcome you begin to realize what a bad idea this really is. It will hamstring Russia (and the Syrian army) who have been effective up to now.

[casualbiker]

So, Obama is adopting Trump's foreign policy for Syria. What happened to all the people trashing Trump about working with Putin there?

What? Trump has never had a coherent plan for Syria, other than to bomb the shit out of ISIS and take the oil. As for Putin, it's always been a bromance...but only if Putin says nice things about Trump.

The oil belongs to Syria and the Syrian people. Show me where Trump said he's going to take Syria's oil. You're just making stuff up.

The oil belongs to Syria... hahahahaha.. so funny! Why do you think Russia and America are there!

[Berkshire]

So, Obama is adopting Trump's foreign policy for Syria. What happened to all the people trashing Trump about working with Putin there?

What? Trump has never had a coherent plan for Syria, other than to bomb the shit out of ISIS and take the oil. As for Putin, it's always been a bromance...but only if Putin says nice things about Trump.

The oil belongs to Syria and the Syrian people. Show me where Trump said he's going to take Syria's oil. You're just making stuff up.

The oil belongs to Syria... hahahahaha.. so funny! Why do you think Russia and America are there!

Mr. TT still won't admit that he's wrong, that Trump did say he'd take the oil. Typical Trump supporter--when faced with indisputable facts that contradicts his position, he runs and hides.

[spidermike007]

Another result of disastrous Obama foreign policy. He does not seem to be able to fight his way out of a paper bag, when it comes to foreign policy. Everything he touches turns to crap. Granted, the US in general has had horrific foreign policy for the past couple of decades. Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Afghanistan, Algeria, not to mention our policies with regard to rogue and out of control nations like Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan.

We are now completely beaten, so why not talk to the Russians? if anything, our policy seems to have made Assad more powerful.

Edited July 15, 2016 by spidermike007

[ggt]

So the country and leader most despised by Obama is now being courted for a new partnership?

If I was Russia...I would be very careful here...there is likely a price to pay for US cooperation...there is always an unspoken motive that surfaces later...the US is famous for speaking with a "forked tongue"...

By Obama's on words...he has the most transparent administration in US history...

Yes, you can keep your Doctor and Insurance...Obamacare will save you money...Hilary did nothing wrong...White cops are targeting innocent blacks...and so on...

[F430murci]

Lol, Putin and Russians think Obama et al. are a bunch of weak clowns . . . and I have a house full of Russians and Ukrainians daily. They have zero respect for Obama and Kerry and Obama and Kerry are dumb enough to think Putin will play ball nicely with them. Can Obama et al. be any dumber, more naive or show any more weakness.

[2fishin2]

Lol, Putin and Russians think Obama et al. are a bunch of weak clowns . . . and I have a house full of Russians and Ukrainians daily. They have zero respect for Obama and Kerry and Obama and Kerry are dumb enough to think Putin will play ball nicely with them. Can Obama et al. be any dumber, more naive or show any more weakness.

Like Putin and Russia are good judges of character....

[F430murci]

Lol, Putin and Russians think Obama et al. are a bunch of weak clowns . . . and I have a house full of Russians and Ukrainians daily. They have zero respect for Obama and Kerry and Obama and Kerry are dumb enough to think Putin will play ball nicely with them. Can Obama et al. be any dumber, more naive or show any more weakness.

Like Putin and Russia are good judges of character....

Loll, boy did that one fly over your hard!

[Rayk]

Lol, Putin and Russians think Obama et al. are a bunch of weak clowns . . . and I have a house full of Russians and Ukrainians daily. They have zero respect for Obama and Kerry and Obama and Kerry are dumb enough to think Putin will play ball nicely with them. Can Obama et al. be any dumber, more naive or show any more weakness.

So you have a house full of alcoholics and ATM skimmers daily.

You should be so proud.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Rayk

[Chicog]

Putin's protection of Assad created this mess. When Assad started executing his own people using his military, he should have been removed. His inability to quell a rebellion by the Syrian Sunni majority has created this hell on earth, and given ISIS a breeding ground.

If you want to blame a world leader, blame the Russian dictator who is responsible.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Chicog

[Publicus]

Lol, Putin and Russians think Obama et al. are a bunch of weak clowns . . . and I have a house full of Russians and Ukrainians daily. They have zero respect for Obama and Kerry and Obama and Kerry are dumb enough to think Putin will play ball nicely with them. Can Obama et al. be any dumber, more naive or show any more weakness.

Like Putin and Russia are good judges of character....

Loll, boy did that one fly over your hard!

Got the wrong part of the body there.

All the same President Obama has led EU to put the Russian economy and the rubble ruble in the tank while oil prices crashing down have greased the energy based Russian existence down the chute. That's because of Putin's crimes in Ukraine so Vlad the Chekist doesn't want a replay in Syria.

Putin's GDP went minus five percent last year while Putin has had to slash the government's energy dependent budget by 50%. Russia now has to use its sovereign funds to cover budget shortfalls which will empty the Reserve Fund by the end of next year, and the Wealth Fund in another three years. (It's no wonder your Russian friends et al are at your house every day and no doubt in a good appetite and thirst!)

Putin's pal Brazil has gone bust as Brics themselves are defunct cause Russia is also shriveling while India wised up to split and join the United States. (CCP China is watching its economy go straight south -- and South Africa is anyway almost as far south as one can get and still be on a continent.)

Putin moreover can't afford any more time fighting in Syria as evidenced by his radically shrinking economic base and the fact he's recalled all fighter planes that had been in Syria since September cause their parts are dropping out of the sky from the ones that can still get off the ground.

The Putin fanboyz are missing a lot here. No surprise however. Kind of you also to take care of those Russians daily btw. (To say nothing of the Ukranians.)

[AlexStepashkin]

Lol, Putin and Russians think Obama et al. are a bunch of weak clowns . . . and I have a house full of Russians and Ukrainians daily. They have zero respect for Obama and Kerry and Obama and Kerry are dumb enough to think Putin will play ball nicely with them. Can Obama et al. be any dumber, more naive or show any more weakness.

> Hearing some of the renter's thoughts

> Spreading them as a government level policy

Russia is interested in cooperating with USA in anything as long as USA keep it fair

Edited July 15, 2016 by AlexStepashkin

[F430murci]

Lol, Putin and Russians think Obama et al. are a bunch of weak clowns . . . and I have a house full of Russians and Ukrainians daily. They have zero respect for Obama and Kerry and Obama and Kerry are dumb enough to think Putin will play ball nicely with them. Can Obama et al. be any dumber, more naive or show any more weakness.

So you have a house full of alcoholics and ATM skimmers daily.

You should be so proud.

Love it! That's the males you speak of and the precise reason why I have a house full of Eastern European hotties all the time. Actually, the few that have Eastern European hubbies also over here have Russian husbands that are absolutely killing it financially. Lol, they are either in investment banking or computer security for financial institutions and large Fortune 500 companies. Irony . . . or is it any wonder why they are paid astronomical amounts to keep overseas hackers out of our banks.

Edited July 15, 2016 by F430murci