denied schengen visa to France,no bank statement?

[aura0000]

Hi all,

I applied for a schengen visa to France via TSL contact last friday.

I'm indonesian working here in Thailand and my partner is French, we have a 1 year old son who is already holding a french/Indonesian passport

My original application was short stay (Private/friend visit)

I provided everything needed from my sponsor (Which is my partner's stepdad)

Lodging attestation, payslips, bank statements, tax and etc

however, they changed my application to Short stay family visit because my son is a French citizen, so they asked a copy of my son's passport and french birth certificate.

i have all documents except the bank statement and savings account for the last three months. I just got my work permit which allowed me to open a bank account, I showed them my savings account but with only 1 month of transactions. I did, however showed them the last three payslips I had.

other than that, I have all the documents, including leave letter from company, contract, re entry permit etc.

the girl at TSLContact said that its important to have a bank statement and i missed this, so i might get refused.

I dont understand this as I put my partners step dad as a sponsor and I had an invitation letter from him saying he will pay for all expenses for my trip.

did anyone here got approved without a bank statement?

is it really important?

can they refuse a family short stay visa?

do i have any benefits being a mom of a eu national? (my 1 year old son)

thank you in advance

[Donutz]

TLS contact is an optional service provider (you may also apply at the embassy itself, saving yourself the service fee). They basically work down a check list, may provide general information and then put all paperwork that you provided in an envelop to be sent of to the French, where a French staff member will decide on the application.

If you only showed a bankbook but did not include it in your application the French official who will look at your application won't be able to see this paperwork (because it is not there). But if your family filled in the sponsorship papers as per French instructions there should be no need fir your bankbook anyway since your expensew will all be covered by your sponsor. The bankbook would only really be useful if you sponsor yourself. It may also be talen into account when they try to see if you are a reliable visitor who will return home (rather then overstaying). Generally they want to see ties such as a job, a house and family that you need to return to (making illigal immigration rather unlikely).

If the French are unsure they may contact you for additional paperwork or an interview. Since you submitted your application realy now all you can do is wait for their decision. If the outcome is negative you can appeal. We may be able to explain a bit more if you provide the reasons for refusal (they will include a form detailing reasons for refusal). But let's hope the visa is issued. So fir now, good luck!

[maoro2013]

What is a schengen visa? I see this mentioned many times but still don't know what it means.

[Carib]

What is a schengen visa? I see this mentioned many times but still don't know what it means.

Here you go; http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/

[theoldgit]

What is a schengen visa? I see this mentioned many times but still don't know what it means.

http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/

[klauskunkel]

What is a schengen visa? I see this mentioned many times but still don't know what it means.

It's short for shenanigan

sorry, couldn't resist.

[KKr]

Send the Bank Book of your French hubby.

[HampiK]

I used TSL many times already. The stuff there is not always very good. The stuff should help but don't have any good knowledge (some stuff are of course good).

But they also rely on the official documents. It could be a problem but not have to be. Especially when you have other prove of finance.

and you can't go direct to the embassy... For swiss and france the TSL Service is mandatory. There are only a few exceptions why you can go to direct.. but even the Embassy tells you that you have to go to TSL!

[Donutz]

I used TSL many times already. The stuff there is not always very good. The stuff should help but don't have any good knowledge (some stuff are of course good).

But they also rely on the official documents. It could be a problem but not have to be. Especially when you have other prove of finance.

and you can't go direct to the embassy... For swiss and france the TSL Service is mandatory. There are only a few exceptions why you can go to direct.. but even the Embassy tells you that you have to go to TSL!

If the French tell you this they are bullshitting you, the EU Visa Code (Schengen rules) make it mandatory for all member states to allow applications at the embassy or skip any other services from external service providers such as TLS Contact and VFS GLobal.

The embassy must also clearly inform people about right of direct access.

This is also explained in the Schengen Sticky topic at the top of this forum (because not all people know about access to the embassy, saving both a service fee and often facing mor competent staff than TLS/VFS) , but in more detail I will quote:

Quote

Fundemental Principles:

(...)

- the reception of the applications by an external service provider is a last-resort

solution. It should be used only when other forms of organisation or cooperation

with other Member States prove to be inappropriate for the Member State

concerned (‘principle of hierarchy’);

- an applicant should always be entitled to submit his application directly at the

consulate, particularly in the case of cooperation with an external service provider

(‘direct access principle’);

(..)

4.3. The service fee

Legal basis: Visa Code, Article 17

As a fundamental principle, a service fee may be charged to an applicant using the facilities of

an external service provider only if the alternative is maintained of direct access to the

consulate incurring the payment of just the visa fee (see point 4.4).

This principle applies to all applicants, whatever the tasks being performed by the external

service provider, including those applicants benefiting from a visa fee waiver, such as family

members of EU and Swiss citizens or categories of persons benefitting from a reduced fee.

These include children from the age of 6 years and under 12 years and persons exempted from

the fee on the basis of a Visa Facilitation Agreement. Therefore, if one of these applicants

decides to use the facilities of an external service provider, the service fee shall be charged.

It is the responsibility of the Member State to ensure that the service fee is proportionate to

the costs incurred by the external service provider, that it duly reflects the services offered and

that it is adapted to local situation.

(...)

4.4. Direct access

Maintaining the possibility for visa applicants to lodge their applications directly at the

consulate instead of via an external service provider implies that there should be a genuine

choice between these two possibilities.

Even if direct access does not have to be organised under identical or similar conditions to

those for access to the service provider, the conditions should not make direct access

impossible in practice. Even if it is acceptable to have a different waiting time for obtaining

an appointment in the case of direct access, the waiting time should not be so long that it

would render direct access impossible in practice.

The different options available for lodging a visa application should be presented plainly to

the public, including clear information both on the choice and the cost of the additional

services of the external service provider (see Part I, point 4.1).

Source 'handbook for embassies': http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/pdf/policies/borders/docs/c_2010_3667_en.pdf

Via EU Home Affairs : http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/index_en.htm

Legal basis of de above: the Schengen Visa Code, article 17, item 5:

Article 17

Service fee

1. An additional service fee may be charged by an external service provider referred to in Article 43. The service fee shall be proportionate to the costs incurred by the external service provider while performing one or more of the tasks referred to in Article 43(6).

2. The service fee shall be specified in the legal instrument referred to in Article 43(2).

3. Within the framework of local Schengen cooperation, Member States shall ensure that the service fee charged to an applicant duly reflects the services offered by the external service provider and is adapted to local circumstances. Furthermore, they shall aim to harmonise the service fee applied.

4. The service fee shall not exceed half of the amount of the visa fee set out in Article 16(1), irrespective of the possible reductions in or exemptions from the visa fee as provided for in Article 16(2), (4), (5) and (6).

5. The Member State(s) concerned shall maintain the possibility for all applicants to lodge their applications directly at its/their consulates.

Source: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32009R0810

You may wish to complain about being screwed by the French by emailing:

- the French (simply e-mail the embassy),

- EU Home Affairs (EU Commission) via their contact page or via mail: just-citizenship [at] ec.europa.eu

- Mailing the EU delegation/embassy to Thailand: http://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/thailand/about_us/contacts/index_en.htm

Edit: I do hope that you and others complain about the French embassy. Especially to the EU (in Brussels and Thailand) as they will be interested in knowing the French whipe their arse with regulations. I mailed the EU about a few embassies in the past and though it took some weeks the EU had a little chat with these embassies/members and set things straight. Leading to various embassies adding the right of direct access to their webpages and so on. Now even the EU is not flawless, a member here recently experienced some BS from the Spanish embassy but the EU delegation in Thailand did not take approperiate action. Brussels may , especially if you forward evidence of embassy takign you for a toss.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Donutz

[HampiK]

I used TSL many times already. The stuff there is not always very good. The stuff should help but don't have any good knowledge (some stuff are of course good).

But they also rely on the official documents. It could be a problem but not have to be. Especially when you have other prove of finance.

and you can't go direct to the embassy... For swiss and france the TSL Service is mandatory. There are only a few exceptions why you can go to direct.. but even the Embassy tells you that you have to go to TSL!

If the French tell you this they are bullshitting you, the EU Visa Code (Schengen rules) make it mandatory for all member states to allow applications at the embassy or skip any other services from external service providers such as TLS Contact and VFS GLobal.

The embassy must also clearly inform people about right of direct access.

Edit: I do hope that you and others complain about the French embassy. Especially to the EU (in Brussels and Thailand) as they will be interested in knowing the French whipe their arse with regulations. I mailed the EU about a few embassies in the past and though it took some weeks the EU had a little chat with these embassies/members and set things straight. Leading to various embassies adding the right of direct access to their webpages and so on. Now even the EU is not flawless, a member here recently experienced some BS from the Spanish embassy but the EU delegation in Thailand did not take approperiate action. Brussels may , especially if you forward evidence of embassy takign you for a toss.

Hello,

Even when you go to the french or the swiss embassy website they stated clearly, that you have to make an appointment on TSL Website.

Yes you are right, you can submit the document directly to the embassy, but only after you made and appointment on TSL Website.

So i think you have to go by TSL but they still follow your rules you mentioned. I only found an english text on the swiss website. The embassy site of france only give thai or french language. But with my minimal french knowledge I also can read, that they wrote something very similar to the below text.

All applications for a ​Schengen visa must be personally submitted at our external service provider TLScontact. The service fee levied by TLScontact is currently THB 863.00.

Applicants ​who do not wish to submit their application at TLScontact can submit it at the Regional Consular Center in Bangkok. In both cases, an appointment is mandatory and must be booked in advance through the website of TLScontactl. If no appointment was made in advance, neither TLScontact nor the Regional Consular Center in Bangkok will accept visa application. Few exceptions are listed in the information sheets.

[Donutz]

The EU wrote back to me* that an appointment system might be in place, though they or the rules do not specifiy how that works if the appointment system is run by an external party, can they charge a fee for something forced upon applicants?. Pretty much all Schengen embassies simply allow you do ask for an appointment by sending an e-mail requesting direct access to the embassy.

For embassies (pretty much just the French) who insist on using an external appointment system for all applicants this raises the question if they can force people to pay for an appointment. And on this subject: the rules do state that for non-EU family members of EU nationals any costs such as phone costs must be local tarif rather then prenium pay lines, and forcing a service fee upon them doesn't sound quite right if you take that into account. But let's assume that we interpreted the rules in favour of the embassy rather then the applicant and that they may force you to use a paid appointment system (for both regular and EU family applicants). Then there obviously still should be two different fees:

- A basic fee for the appointment, such as system may cost a few hundred baht to maintain I'd estimate.

- An additional fee for 'full serivice' at a VAC (Visa Application Centre)

Since obviously it would make no sense to charge the same fee for those who go to the embassy or those who go to the VAC. The VAC is optional and exploys staff, thus those additional costs should be optional.

Such a two types of services fee system would fit with the text from the handbook that says:

"Therefore, if one of these applicants decides to use the facilities of an external service provider, the service fee shall be charged.

It is the responsibility of the Member State to ensure that the service fee is proportionate to the costs incurred by the external service provider, that it duly reflects the services offered and that it is adapted to local situation. "

So my stance would be that the French are still getting it wrong, if they can't be bothered to book an appointment into their computer via e-mail, can't be bothered to waive this service fee for EU family applicants (which would clearly be a violation of it's own) then atleast they should have two types of fees in place. Now ofcourse les people might turn to the VAC as it would save them some more money so I understand that an embassy who wishes to cut down on operating costs, staff etc. would try everything to get people to bugger off to the VAC. I

So taking all this into accuont it would still be worthwhile to contact the various authorities (especially the EU, the French would ofcouse be much less interested in providing better service and increase their costs) IMHO. Simply be writing an e-mail asking if

- knowing that an appointment sytem is in place, which might eb run by an external service provider (ESP), can they charge a service fee (maknig costs unavoidable)?

- If there should be seperate fees for the appointment system run by an ESP and an additional fee for those who apply at a VAC rather then at the embassy?

- How does this all compare to family of EU applicants who should basically receive a VIP hassle free procedure at zero to neglectable costs. Can they charge a service fee even though this seems to conflict with various rules?

Edit: * here is what they wrote to me in 2015, Mr. J. De Ceuster (European Commission; Head of Unit "Free movement of persons, Visa policy, External borders, Schengen) wrote the following to me:

(...)

It is true that according to the Visa Code, Article 17(5), visa applicants should be allowed to lodge their application at the consulate instead of at the external service provider who charges a service fee. But nothing prevents the consulate itself from using an appointment system, which Spain does in Manilla, and the appointment system may be operated by an
external service provider. Applicants who are family member of an EU/EEA citizen covered by Directive 2004/3 8/EC2 should, in any case, be given an appointment immediately for lodging their application.

According to Article 47 of the Visa Code, "Member States' central authorities and consulates shall provide the general public with all relevant information in relation to the application for a visa." This obligation of course is also valid when visa applications are lodged at the premises of an external service provider and the Member States are responsible for ensuring that correct information be given.

The European Commission has recently carried out a study on the Member States' respect of the provisions of the Visa Code regarding information to the public. The result of the study was that the information is generally sub-optimal. So, the Commission is aware that some Member States fail to offer precise information in all locations. (...)

Edited July 22, 2016 by Donutz

[aura0000]

When we went to the French embassy. we were told that all visa processing should be done at TSL contact.

Anyway i got a text message today saying i can pick up my passport, thats pretty fast, took 5 working days only! I was expecting 10 days. Is that a sign of approval/refusal of visa? (Sorry for the silly question)

[HampiK]

When we went to the French embassy. we were told that all visa processing should be done at TSL contact.

Anyway i got a text message today saying i can pick up my passport, thats pretty fast, took 5 working days only! I was expecting 10 days. Is that a sign of approval/refusal of visa? (Sorry for the silly question)

This has nothing to say. TSL don't even know if the VISA is granted or not.

You have to go there to pick up the document and then you can know . The duration depends on how many visa are asked. But I think at the moment France is not the most searched country in Europe...

[Seraphina]

Hi Aura000,

I live in France as a foreigner. The agency was correct to switch your visa to a family visa for two reasons:

1. the Schengan Agreement does NOT apply your country of origin. A mother or father-in-law from an EU member is ALSO NOT sufficient basis to obtain entry to the Schengan Area.

2. I am naturally assuming that you are on a family visit NOT trying to work illegally in France, so a family visit visa sounds 100% correct to me.

I understand that IF the Embassy is too far to travel to and there is no Consulate nearby, you may be obliged to use an agency. However, as another member on this forum has suggested, you should try and apply directly to the Embassy yourself rather than use a third party because the whys and wherefores will be explained to you. Take your wife with you as it's often better to work in French for explanations and they tend to be more flexible with 'their own'.

If I understand you correctly, you need to produce bank statements for the last three months? This is to prove that you have a job here and a reason to return. The bank statements tell the Embassy/Consulate two things:

1. that you can support your family while you're in France.

2. that you have absolutely no intention of working during your stay in France.

Since you have a French wife, son and close relations in France who can support you, they just want to be sure. I am a little puzzled why you can't provide bank statements in the last three months! These must be "in date" or 'au courant'.

Often, the Embassy/Consulate will accept an attestation from your bank in the local language that your account holds sufficient funds. I suggest you explore this avenue.

It was your error to have applied erroneously for the wrong visa, so your bank statements may be out of date and the authorities won't accept this.

It's very easy to blame the agency when you don't know all the ins and outs of visa applications, but as far as I can see, the agency is 100% correct.

[Seraphina]

I used TSL many times already. The stuff there is not always very good. The stuff should help but don't have any good knowledge (some stuff are of course good).

But they also rely on the official documents. It could be a problem but not have to be. Especially when you have other prove of finance.

and you can't go direct to the embassy... For swiss and france the TSL Service is mandatory. There are only a few exceptions why you can go to direct.. but even the Embassy tells you that you have to go to TSL!

If the French tell you this they are bullshitting you, the EU Visa Code (Schengen rules) make it mandatory for all member states to allow applications at the embassy or skip any other services from external service providers such as TLS Contact and VFS GLobal.

The embassy must also clearly inform people about right of direct access.

This is also explained in the Schengen Sticky topic at the top of this forum (because not all people know about access to the embassy, saving both a service fee and often facing mor competent staff than TLS/VFS) , but in more detail I will quote:

Quote

Fundemental Principles:

(...)

- the reception of the applications by an external service provider is a last-resort

solution. It should be used only when other forms of organisation or cooperation

with other Member States prove to be inappropriate for the Member State

concerned (‘principle of hierarchy’);

- an applicant should always be entitled to submit his application directly at the

consulate, particularly in the case of cooperation with an external service provider

(‘direct access principle’);

(..)

4.3. The service fee

Legal basis: Visa Code, Article 17

As a fundamental principle, a service fee may be charged to an applicant using the facilities of

an external service provider only if the alternative is maintained of direct access to the

consulate incurring the payment of just the visa fee (see point 4.4).

This principle applies to all applicants, whatever the tasks being performed by the external

service provider, including those applicants benefiting from a visa fee waiver, such as family

members of EU and Swiss citizens or categories of persons benefitting from a reduced fee.

These include children from the age of 6 years and under 12 years and persons exempted from

the fee on the basis of a Visa Facilitation Agreement. Therefore, if one of these applicants

decides to use the facilities of an external service provider, the service fee shall be charged.

It is the responsibility of the Member State to ensure that the service fee is proportionate to

the costs incurred by the external service provider, that it duly reflects the services offered and

that it is adapted to local situation.

(...)

4.4. Direct access

Maintaining the possibility for visa applicants to lodge their applications directly at the

consulate instead of via an external service provider implies that there should be a genuine

choice between these two possibilities.

Even if direct access does not have to be organised under identical or similar conditions to

those for access to the service provider, the conditions should not make direct access

impossible in practice. Even if it is acceptable to have a different waiting time for obtaining

an appointment in the case of direct access, the waiting time should not be so long that it

would render direct access impossible in practice.

The different options available for lodging a visa application should be presented plainly to

the public, including clear information both on the choice and the cost of the additional

services of the external service provider (see Part I, point 4.1).

Source 'handbook for embassies': http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/pdf/policies/borders/docs/c_2010_3667_en.pdf

Via EU Home Affairs : http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/index_en.htm

Legal basis of de above: the Schengen Visa Code, article 17, item 5:

Article 17

Service fee

1. An additional service fee may be charged by an external service provider referred to in Article 43. The service fee shall be proportionate to the costs incurred by the external service provider while performing one or more of the tasks referred to in Article 43(6).

2. The service fee shall be specified in the legal instrument referred to in Article 43(2).

3. Within the framework of local Schengen cooperation, Member States shall ensure that the service fee charged to an applicant duly reflects the services offered by the external service provider and is adapted to local circumstances. Furthermore, they shall aim to harmonise the service fee applied.

4. The service fee shall not exceed half of the amount of the visa fee set out in Article 16(1), irrespective of the possible reductions in or exemptions from the visa fee as provided for in Article 16(2), (4), (5) and (6).

5. The Member State(s) concerned shall maintain the possibility for all applicants to lodge their applications directly at its/their consulates.

Source: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32009R0810

You may wish to complain about being screwed by the French by emailing:

- the French (simply e-mail the embassy),

- EU Home Affairs (EU Commission) via their contact page or via mail: just-citizenship [at] ec.europa.eu

- Mailing the EU delegation/embassy to Thailand: http://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/thailand/about_us/contacts/index_en.htm

Edit: I do hope that you and others complain about the French embassy. Especially to the EU (in Brussels and Thailand) as they will be interested in knowing the French whipe their arse with regulations. I mailed the EU about a few embassies in the past and though it took some weeks the EU had a little chat with these embassies/members and set things straight. Leading to various embassies adding the right of direct access to their webpages and so on. Now even the EU is not flawless, a member here recently experienced some BS from the Spanish embassy but the EU delegation in Thailand did not take approperiate action. Brussels may , especially if you forward evidence of embassy takign you for a toss.

Hey yo'all. I wasn't aware that Indonesia was a member of the Schengan Agreement. Are you telling me something I didn't know?

No point in arguing with any Embassy or complaining because they're right, even if they aren't. Suprised you haven't learned that one yet....

Edited July 25, 2016 by Seraphina

[mgb]

1. the Schengan Agreement does NOT apply your country of origin. A mother or father-in-law from an EU member is ALSO NOT sufficient basis to obtain entry to the Schengan Area.

The OP is father not father-in-law.

Take a look at the ECJ decision C200/2 Zhu and Chen.

If the destination is the home country of the eu citizen Zambrano C34/09 is valid.

Edited July 26, 2016 by mgb

[bubba]

What about the French consulates that are located outside of Bangkok? Do they accept applications directly?

[SantiSuk]

2018 update.

 

The TLS Contact Centre on line guidance now makes it clear that there is an option to apply at the French embassy direct - but you can only do it on a Monday morning and appointments must be made via TLSCC.

 

I may be trying that out myself as an energency Plan B. Having started the process through the standard TLSCC routines and filled out the information questionnaires that are supposed to then populate the formal visa application when you press a button to apply, I found that the applications I now have, to be used for an appointment at TLSCC in a few days time are a hopelessly poor reflection of the data I input - missing data on my daughter's application and data entries made that are not appropriate to the wife of an EU citizen on my wife's application (I did of course submit the info about her being an EU family member). 

 

After 42 hours TLSCC responded to my special pleading to respond to my (standard online request) for a phone call-back.  However I am still wary with the respondent's nonchalance as though this is 'situation normal' and her assurance it will be 'alright on the night' at appointment (especially as said respondent refused to give a name in support of her assurances - 'company policy' apparently). 

 

Shades of the worst of VFS in its early days!. I thought the embassy process back in 2010 when we last got Schengen-France visas was excellent - seems these processing agents just {proverbial phrase} things up!