California governor denies parole for Manson follower

[ClutchClark]

Application for parole in an election year for someone as infamous as this is simply done to make money for the lawyer. There is NO chance.

I always felt a bit ambivalent about Charles Manson...because he never killed anyone himself...he merely instructed people to do so...the killers were adults and certainly responsible...I don't know about Charlie...but he will certainly spend the rest of his life behind bars...and he's pretty insane at this point...

Big problem is he still has a following. he'd still be able to influence screwballs to commit horrific crimes at the drop of a hat. Is there not still remains of "the family" and new followers mingling?

I recall he was planning to marry some young woman in the past couple years.

She had that deer-in-the-headlights look.

[Franky Bear]

I recall he was planning to marry some young woman in the past couple years.

She had that deer-in-the-headlights look.

Her too yeah. I go through weird phases on YouTube. A few years ago i watched a lot on serial killers, focusing on Manson a lot. His thought process and the Haight Ashbury hippie thing were the "perfect storm".

I doubt he would be able to do what he did now as the factors that contributed to that crazy period are gone and not to be done again. The only thing that came close was the House/Acid house explosion that started early 80's and is still going strong now. But all that was is an extension of Disco so there wasn't a total quick explosion of a totally new way of life.

"The family" although evil, is a very interesting subject matter.

[dhream]

See this is what eventually happens. It actually took the governor overturning a parole board's recommendation. Eventually, she'll get her parole, and that'll be the end of this murderer's life sentence. "Life sentences" end up not being life sentences. This murderer should have been put to death. A life sentence is not an alternative to the DP because it doesn't exist. But you don't hear about that from DP opponents when they're arguing to save some monster's life. You read about it on pg 10 years later when those same bleeding hearts are on one of their "rehabilitation" crusades to get the same monster released. Pure bait & switch.

Heres some fact - not bait.

Too many innocent people have died. Those with life are being exonerated by DNA and cold case perp confessions at a disturbing rate. It costs more to execute someone than lock them up for life. Death sentence Appeals cost big money. Life should mean life. Executions are what fanatics and state sanctioned murderers do. If you take a monsters life, it dont make you a folk hero. You're just a murderer with a state remit.

[hawker9000]

In any other case Leslie VanHouten would have been released LONG time ago, before 1980; LVH never killed anyone, she was not at the Tate murders, at the Bianca house Tex and CM decided to avoid the kind of chaos that had happened at the Tate house so they told the victims this is just a robbery, we won't hurt you if you cooperate-there was none of the "we're here to do the devils work" business like what had happened at the Tate house. she took Rosemary Bianca into the bedroom with Patricia Krinwincle and they started tying her up, then Mrs. Bianaca heard Leno Bianca being stabbed and started to struggle- The girls then called Tex for help and he came in and mortally wounded RB. LVH stood there in shock at the bedroom door, that is when Tex told here that Charlie had said that they were all to get their hands dirty and that LVH had to "do something", at that point LVH stabbed Rosemarys dead body, or at least near dead body, Rosemary was no longer moving by the time LVH stabbed her.

The gilrs in the Manson family had no power and were not in a position to prevent this from happening. Keep in mind this was 1969 and there was only 1 phone at Sphann Ranch and no where to go, the members were up there isolated from the world as Charlie was giving them this narrative of pending doom where millions would die soon, so LVH thought all these people would die soon anyways, even if she wanted to put a stop to it.

I think it's too much to ask of a 19 year old girl that she should have 'escaped' that situation in the less than 24 hours between the Tate and Bianca murders.

FPS, just how old do you have to be before you're responsible for the murder you commit? 82? Oh wait, then I guess you're TOO old to be responsible... Too young, too old, too poor, too spoiled, too discriminated against, too stressed, too drunk, too high... Amazing.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Is 40 years punishment not enough. Is 45 years punishment so much better? Then why try to reform prisoners and allow then to get a college education when you never plan to let them out again. They won't need that in prison. .

40 years? Not for this type of offense.

45? Better.

Life? Best.

This was not an involuntary mmanslaughter...this was an intentional, willful act to kill fellow human beings.

Have you read the details of the attack?

Rehabilitation is for people whose crime was not so heinous as to forever exclude from society but the Manson crowd made personal choices that makes them unfit to ever return to society.

Yes I have read about these graphic and vicious attacks carried out by the Manson Crowd when they actually happened back then, and I also read the book "Helter Skelter" later when that came out.So I agree these attacks were vicious and not involuntary manslaughter.

But we are talking about Leslie Van Houten now, a 19 year old teenager when these crimes were committed, and not Charles Manson and the rest of the Manson Crowd, and as you put it. A teenager tied to one murder of a woman who was at the time dying or dead anyway, and supporting testimony to say that she was ordered to do this by a stronger gang member, and as pointed out so well by another poster here.

I think I have read here at least 2 times that none of the Charles Mason Crowd will ever be let out of prison, which is not true at all. I want to bring every ones attention to "Lynette Fromme" or also better known as "Squeaky Fromme". Although she was never convicted of murder, she was arrested for it 2 different times, but later released due to a lack of evidence, as she never confessed. But she was caught Red Handed and convicted of attempting to assassinated US President Ford, which under US Law at that time carried the same sentence as Murder, thus life in prison. She was 27 years old at that time at not 19 like Leslie. .

Squeaky Fromme was perhaps Charles Manson's Greatest Supporter. At no time did she ever show any sign of remorse for the crimes committed by the Manson Crowd. In fact at her own trial she made a mockery of that by throwing an apple at the Prosecutor's face and knocking his glasses off, for making the recommendation to the Judge that she should be given a long sentence as she was full of hate and violence.

Was Squeaky Fromme a Model Prisoner like Leslie Van Houten? No! In fact they had to transfer her to a different prison after serving 4 years there for attacking a fellow inmate with the claw-end of a hammer. In December of 1987, or 12 years after her arrest, Squeaky Fromme escaped from Federal Prison, which she ended up serving extra time for, as she had heard that Charles Manson had cancer and she was attempting to meet with him. At no time in prison did Squeaky Fromme ever denounce Charles Manson or any of his actions or any of the Manson Crowd to, of which she was only one of two people who never did. Even 20 years after her time in prison she still pledged her alliance to him.

But get this! In August of 2009, Lynette (Squeaky) Fromme was released from prison on full parole and for 7 years now has lived a free life while Leslie Van Houten rots away in prison for a crime she was practically forced to commit by others when she was a teenager and only 19 years old. If someone sees the fairness in that then I don't know what.

Especially when Leslie Van Houten was finally granted a Parole but this decision was overturned by the Governor. The reason this Governor did that was because he said that Leslie did not explain to the Parole Board how a Good Girl like her, who was a Model Student and Crowned Home Coming Princess, could get mixed up in a murder such as this.That to me just shows me how little this Governor actually knows about real life and why he should keep his nose out of this.

I bet more than half the Prostitutes out there today were all Good Girls at one time and until they to got mixed up with the wrong crowd and drugs. If you want the truth, I would rather find out the true reason why a person like Patty Hearst, coming from a very rich family and the finest schools, can get mixed up in a bank robbery and other such crimes, and not how it happened to an average Leslie Van Houten. Like Leslie, Patty Hearst was 19 years old at that time. .

[GOLDBUGGY]

In any other case Leslie VanHouten would have been released LONG time ago, before 1980; LVH never killed anyone, she was not at the Tate murders, at the Bianca house Tex and CM decided to avoid the kind of chaos that had happened at the Tate house so they told the victims this is just a robbery, we won't hurt you if you cooperate-there was none of the "we're here to do the devils work" business like what had happened at the Tate house. she took Rosemary Bianca into the bedroom with Patricia Krinwincle and they started tying her up, then Mrs. Bianaca heard Leno Bianca being stabbed and started to struggle- The girls then called Tex for help and he came in and mortally wounded RB. LVH stood there in shock at the bedroom door, that is when Tex told here that Charlie had said that they were all to get their hands dirty and that LVH had to "do something", at that point LVH stabbed Rosemarys dead body, or at least near dead body, Rosemary was no longer moving by the time LVH stabbed her.

The gilrs in the Manson family had no power and were not in a position to prevent this from happening. Keep in mind this was 1969 and there was only 1 phone at Sphann Ranch and no where to go, the members were up there isolated from the world as Charlie was giving them this narrative of pending doom where millions would die soon, so LVH thought all these people would die soon anyways, even if she wanted to put a stop to it.

I think it's too much to ask of a 19 year old girl that she should have 'escaped' that situation in the less than 24 hours between the Tate and Bianca murders.

FPS, just how old do you have to be before you're responsible for the murder you commit? 82? Oh wait, then I guess you're TOO old to be responsible... Too young, too old, too poor, too spoiled, too discriminated against, too stressed, too drunk, too high... Amazing.

Under the Young Offenders Act, in most countries, the legal age is 18 years old. Do I think that a 16 year old knows better than to steal cars at this age? Or worst yet, and from the example I gave earlier, to kill her parents and younger brother for basically no good reason? Of course I do! But it is what it is and this is the law.

But at the same time a 19 year old is not the same as a 40 year old either, so a crime they commit is not the same then either, and thus perhaps not handed the same punishment. A Teenager is easier to turn into a life of crime and drugs, but also easier to rehabilitate as well. It is not by chance that the Army likes to recruit Men (and Women) between the ages of 18 and 24 years old. Besides being in perhaps the best shape in there life, they are also easier to Brain Wash and turn them into Killing Machines. .

[hawker9000]

In any other case Leslie VanHouten would have been released LONG time ago, before 1980; LVH never killed anyone, she was not at the Tate murders, at the Bianca house Tex and CM decided to avoid the kind of chaos that had happened at the Tate house so they told the victims this is just a robbery, we won't hurt you if you cooperate-there was none of the "we're here to do the devils work" business like what had happened at the Tate house. she took Rosemary Bianca into the bedroom with Patricia Krinwincle and they started tying her up, then Mrs. Bianaca heard Leno Bianca being stabbed and started to struggle- The girls then called Tex for help and he came in and mortally wounded RB. LVH stood there in shock at the bedroom door, that is when Tex told here that Charlie had said that they were all to get their hands dirty and that LVH had to "do something", at that point LVH stabbed Rosemarys dead body, or at least near dead body, Rosemary was no longer moving by the time LVH stabbed her.

The gilrs in the Manson family had no power and were not in a position to prevent this from happening. Keep in mind this was 1969 and there was only 1 phone at Sphann Ranch and no where to go, the members were up there isolated from the world as Charlie was giving them this narrative of pending doom where millions would die soon, so LVH thought all these people would die soon anyways, even if she wanted to put a stop to it.

I think it's too much to ask of a 19 year old girl that she should have 'escaped' that situation in the less than 24 hours between the Tate and Bianca murders.

FPS, just how old do you have to be before you're responsible for the murder you commit? 82? Oh wait, then I guess you're TOO old to be responsible... Too young, too old, too poor, too spoiled, too discriminated against, too stressed, too drunk, too high... Amazing.

Under the Young Offenders Act, in most countries, the legal age is 18 years old. Do I think that a 16 year old knows better than to steal cars at this age? Or worst yet, and from the example I gave earlier, to kill her parents and younger brother for basically no good reason? Of course I do! But it is what it is and this is the law.

But at the same time a 19 year old is not the same as a 40 year old either, so a crime they commit is not the same then either, and thus perhaps not handed the same punishment. A Teenager is easier to turn into a life of crime and drugs, but also easier to rehabilitate as well. It is not by chance that the Army likes to recruit Men (and Women) between the ages of 18 and 24 years old. Besides being in perhaps the best shape in there life, they are also easier to Brain Wash and turn them into Killing Machines. .

No, it's just the physical factor. You're just making up the rest.

[stevenl]

Age of the offender really does not matter IMO.

They were convicted, with the possibility of parole after a number of years. Those years have passed, but parole is not granted, despite a positive advice from the parole board, based only on sentiment. That makes the rejection a bad decision.

[thaihome]

Is 40 years punishment not enough. Is 45 years punishment so much better? Then why try to reform prisoners and allow then to get a college education when you never plan to let them out again. They won't need that in prison. .

40 years? Not for this type of offense.

45? Better.

Life? Best.

This was not an involuntary mmanslaughter...this was an intentional, willful act to kill fellow human beings.

Have you read the details of the attack?

Rehabilitation is for people whose crime was not so heinous as to forever exclude from society but the Manson crowd made personal choices that makes them unfit to ever return to society.

Yes I have read about these graphic and vicious attacks carried out by the Manson Crowd when they actually happened back then, and I also read the book "Helter Skelter" later when that came out.So I agree these attacks were vicious and not involuntary manslaughter.

But we are talking about Leslie Van Houten now, a 19 year old teenager when these crimes were committed, and not Charles Manson and the rest of the Manson Crowd, and as you put it. A teenager tied to one murder of a woman who was at the time dying or dead anyway, and supporting testimony to say that she was ordered to do this by a stronger gang member, and as pointed out so well by another poster here.

I think I have read here at least 2 times that none of the Charles Mason Crowd will ever be let out of prison, which is not true at all. I want to bring every ones attention to "Lynette Fromme" or also better known as "Squeaky Fromme". Although she was never convicted of murder, she was arrested for it 2 different times, but later released due to a lack of evidence, as she never confessed. But she was caught Red Handed and convicted of attempting to assassinated US President Ford, which under US Law at that time carried the same sentence as Murder, thus life in prison. She was 27 years old at that time at not 19 like Leslie. .

Squeaky Fromme was perhaps Charles Manson's Greatest Supporter. At no time did she ever show any sign of remorse for the crimes committed by the Manson Crowd. In fact at her own trial she made a mockery of that by throwing an apple at the Prosecutor's face and knocking his glasses off, for making the recommendation to the Judge that she should be given a long sentence as she was full of hate and violence.

Was Squeaky Fromme a Model Prisoner like Leslie Van Houten? No! In fact they had to transfer her to a different prison after serving 4 years there for attacking a fellow inmate with the claw-end of a hammer. In December of 1987, or 12 years after her arrest, Squeaky Fromme escaped from Federal Prison, which she ended up serving extra time for, as she had heard that Charles Manson had cancer and she was attempting to meet with him. At no time in prison did Squeaky Fromme ever denounce Charles Manson or any of his actions or any of the Manson Crowd to, of which she was only one of two people who never did. Even 20 years after her time in prison she still pledged her alliance to him.

But get this! In August of 2009, Lynette (Squeaky) Fromme was released from prison on full parole and for 7 years now has lived a free life while Leslie Van Houten rots away in prison for a crime she was practically forced to commit by others when she was a teenager and only 19 years old. If someone sees the fairness in that then I don't know what.

Especially when Leslie Van Houten was finally granted a Parole but this decision was overturned by the Governor. The reason this Governor did that was because he said that Leslie did not explain to the Parole Board how a Good Girl like her, who was a Model Student and Crowned Home Coming Princess, could get mixed up in a murder such as this.That to me just shows me how little this Governor actually knows about real life and why he should keep his nose out of this.

I bet more than half the Prostitutes out there today were all Good Girls at one time and until they to got mixed up with the wrong crowd and drugs. If you want the truth, I would rather find out the true reason why a person like Patty Hearst, coming from a very rich family and the finest schools, can get mixed up in a bank robbery and other such crimes, and not how it happened to an average Leslie Van Houten. Like Leslie, Patty Hearst was 19 years old at that time. .

I do not believe that carrying a .45 automatic pistol, without a round in the chamber and only 4 rounds in the magazine, near the president (never shooting at him) is quite the same as repeatedly stabbing a tied up dying elderly woman. That is known as indulging in false equivalency.

I find the argument repugnant that the victim may have already dead when she repeatedly stabbed her and therfore there is some sort less guilt.

TH

[Khon Kaen Dave]

I disagree.Rich or poor doesnt come into it,maybe here and in the USA but not in the UK.The self converted muslims,who hacked Lee Rigby to death i Woolwich London,are doing 40 years.Also the likes of lord Lucan,are still wanted criminals and should he be caught,he would still go to trial and be given a sentence that would see him die inside,and he was minted.Hindley and Brady were assured they would never see freedom again.Do you think that the loved ones of the kids they kiled(and the ones they never told) would agree that they were only young and should be freed.What about the Kray brothers?Kids today see them as latter day hero's.But they were nothing but thugs and murderers.They held a reign of terror in the East end of London in the sixties.They are both dead now,they never got freed.They could afford the very best of brief's but they still got a life sentence.Would the bleeding heart dogoder's want them freed.I agree that Roman Polanski,must have suffered greatly when he lost his wife and unborn child.The brutality of the crimes committed by 'The Manson Family' decided their sentences.

Any way shouldnt God be the Judge of all muderers.Doesnt he say,"Thou shalt not kill".

I know that all Americans believe in God,otherwise why would they print on their currency "In God we trust"

Let him sort them out.

[Mich28]

I think people forget how this girl laughed at the court hearings. People couldn't see who she really is because of her looks. She is a psycho who should not be let out. No way is justice served for her to get paid for what she did.

[hawker9000]

I think people forget how this girl laughed at the court hearings. People couldn't see who she really is because of her looks. She is a psycho who should not be let out. No way is justice served for her to get paid for what she did.

Just accept it. Next time around, or the time after that, she'll get her parole, write a book, sell the movie rights, and end up in a Malibu beachfront with more money than God. That's how we treat the worst murderers in the USA. So the takeaway is: If you're gonna' commit murder, make it as bloody & brutal & monstrous as you possibly can, preferably in a "civilized" state where there's no DP (and good internet...).

[thaihome]

People from California don't call San Francisco, "Frisco". Just sayin'.

Hmmm....spent most of my life in California and definitely called it Frisco! But mainly back in my hippie day! LOL

It should be people that live in SF and the Bay area don't call it "Frisco". They refer to it as "the city".

Native southern Californians don't refer to it at all ?

TH

[stevenl]

I think people forget how this girl laughed at the court hearings. People couldn't see who she really is because of her looks. She is a psycho who should not be let out. No way is justice served for her to get paid for what she did.

If that is the case she should have been convicted to a sentence that would not let her out.