NBTC to propose special SIM cards for foreign tourists so they can be traced

[digibum]

1 minute ago, sjaak327 said:

Precious few of course. I obviously was referring to tourists with foreign sims. I believe the vast majority of tourists don't bother purchasing a Thai sim. So the goal described in the OP is not the real goal of this new tourist sim.

 

Vast majority?  You're basing that on what?  

 

The three major telecom vendors having prominent booths in arrivals at the airport?  SIM cards being available virtually everywhere with short-term data plans?  Most SIMs having instructions in English and Thai?  

 

I think you are very wrong on your estimation of how many tourists obtain SIM cards traveling in Thailand.  Personally, my roaming charges for data would be astronomical if I didn't use a local SIM.  

 

And I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying.  If I wanted to monitor foreigners, I can pretty much assume everyone roaming on the cellular network is a foreigner.  I'm going to be about 95% right on that.  But I don't know how many local SIMs belong to foreigners.  So, if one could find a way to distinguish foreigners using Thai SIM cards from Thais using Thai SIM cards, well, you could monitor the vast majority of foreigners.  The OP pretty much describes just that.  It's a way for them to distinguish Thais from foreigners very easily on the Thai cellular networks.  

 

Obviously, the reason they're doing this is outlandish and a violation of privacy but TiT and they don't care, Khun Farang. 

  

[digibum]

8 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Can these government officials really be that stupid? Or are they just being disingenuous?

All SIM cards can be traced to within one cell area, and by triangulation the location can potentially be refined further. No exceptions.

Assuming the identity of the purchaser was noted at the time of sale and that the original purchaser is still using it then the government can always tell who is using what SIM for what purpose, and where they are.

 

Interesting word, "assuming" as in Thailand nothing can be assumed.  

[smedly]

12 minutes ago, digibum said:

 

If you assume illegal acts to be robbing banks.  On the other hand, if illegal acts includes crimes like posting things to social media that the government would not like reported . . .  well, it's pretty effective.  

 

 

like I said above, what exactly are they trying to achieve by this - 99.999999% of crimes are committed by Thais in this country - it has nothing to do with social media................................if they put as much effort into keeping tourists safe then we might not see the senseless slaughter that is reported on a daily basis on the roads and at sea by incompetent greedy "unregulated" (deleted)

 

Tourist safety should be the number one goal in this country and yet for the last 30 years after trillions of revenue they have done absolutely nothing at all  

[sjaak327]

10 minutes ago, digibum said:

 

Vast majority?  You're basing that on what?  

 

The three major telecom vendors having prominent booths in arrivals at the airport?  SIM cards being available virtually everywhere with short-term data plans?  Most SIMs having instructions in English and Thai?  

 

I think you are very wrong on your estimation of how many tourists obtain SIM cards traveling in Thailand.  Personally, my roaming charges for data would be astronomical if I didn't use a local SIM.  

 

And I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying.  If I wanted to monitor foreigners, I can pretty much assume everyone roaming on the cellular network is a foreigner.  I'm going to be about 95% right on that.  But I don't know how many local SIMs belong to foreigners.  So, if one could find a way to distinguish foreigners using Thai SIM cards from Thais using Thai SIM cards, well, you could monitor the vast majority of foreigners.  The OP pretty much describes just that.  It's a way for them to distinguish Thais from foreigners very easily on the Thai cellular networks.  

 

Obviously, the reason they're doing this is outlandish and a violation of privacy but TiT and they don't care, Khun Farang. 

  

Logic. There is no real need to get a local sim for a bit of data, with the availability of free Wifi in most hotels and many bars and restaurants. And even free wifi in Bangkok city center.

 

Yes quite a few tourist indeed obtain a local sim, but I very much doubt those being the majority.

 

As to what you were saying, they OP talks about easily monitoring foreigners. Now they aren't going to monitor people with foreign sims, as they cannot possibly put a name to a sim.

 

If all they wanted is to monitor foreigners using Thai sims, they already can. Maybe you have missed it, but a few years ago you had to register your Thai sim using a passport. Failure to do so would render the sim useless. It happened to the two sims I own (both over 10 years old), one is for my Laotian boyfriend whilst the other is being used by me whilst in Thailand. Last November, they didn't work, and all I needed to do to re-activate the sim (with any balance and expiration still intact) is to go to the nearest AIS and register both sims using my passport.

 

The real reason probably is that they want to sell those pesky sims at higher prices and with higher call/data costs. Again they already can distinguish foreign owned sims from Thai owned sims, as that whole registration procedure has already achieved that.

 

[digibum]

9 minutes ago, smedly said:

like I said above, what exactly are they trying to achieve by this - 99.999999% of crimes are committed by Thais in this country - it has nothing to do with social media................................if they put as much effort into keeping tourists safe then we might not see the senseless slaughter that is reported on a daily basis on the roads and at sea by incompetent greedy "unregulated" (deleted)

 

Tourist safety should be the number one goal in this country and yet for the last 30 years after trillions of revenue they have done absolutely nothing at all  

 

It's almost cute that you think the Thai police care about tourist safety.  

 

And you sort of answered your own question, 30 years and trillions of baht in revenue . . . and yet they still keep coming, don't they?  As long as people continue to reward Thailand with their tourist and expat dollars (or pounds or euros) regardless of tourist safety they have zero incentive to do anything that benefits you.  

[Maybole]

Will they be sold at a special (inflated) price ? What are they afraid of ?

[digibum]

6 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Logic. There is no real need to get a local sim for a bit of data, with the availability of free Wifi in most hotels and many bars and restaurants. And even free wifi in Bangkok city center.

 

Yes quite a few tourist indeed obtain a local sim, but I very much doubt those being the majority.

 

As to what you were saying, they OP talks about easily monitoring foreigners. Now they aren't going to monitor people with foreign sims, as they cannot possibly put a name to a sim.

 

If all they wanted is to monitor foreigners using Thai sims, they already can. Maybe you have missed it, but a few years ago you had to register your Thai sim using a passport. Failure to do so would render the sim useless. It happened to the two sims I own (both over 10 years old), one is for my Laotian boyfriend whilst the other is being used by me whilst in Thailand. Last November, they didn't work, and all I needed to do to re-activate the sim (with any balance and expiration still intact) is to go to the nearest AIS and register both sims using my passport.

 

The real reason probably is that they want to sell those pesky sims at higher prices and with higher call/data costs. Again they already can distinguish foreign owned sims from Thai owned sims, as that whole registration procedure has already achieved that.

 

 

In 15 or so years of traveling to and living in Thailand I have never not had a local SIM.  I buy one before I leave the airport.  

 

On the other hand, I travel a lot on business to other countries and I never buy a local SIM because I am in offices or in the hotel 90% of the time I am there and can use Wifi.  But if I am going to be out and about, like I would as a tourist, I buy a SIM because there are a lot of apps that don't work without data.  

 

How can they not put a name to a SIM if you have to use a passport to buy the SIM?  You're supposed to show a passport today.  Why would that not be the case when they are increasing the amount of surveillance?  Now they will have your passport tied to your ID and a special class of SIM cards that help them isolate foreigners from locals.  

 

My guess is that the two systems they created when they required SIM registrations don't talk to each other very well.  They got people to register their SIM cards but they've since figured out they don't have a good way of quickly locating people based on that system.  It's probably a three or four step process or involves some degree of manual intervention to get the info they're looking for and they want to be able to do it in real time which requires a different set of tools.  

 

I would love to hear the questions they ask of the telecom industry regarding the technology.  That will basically tell you everything you need to know regarding their motivations.  

[digibum]

16 minutes ago, Maybole said:

Will they be sold at a special (inflated) price ? What are they afraid of ?

 

I'm going to take a guess that if you look around at other efforts to stifle privacy rights and free speech, you'll figure out exactly what they're afraid of.  Never look at each of the pieces in isolation, hold them up against the bigger picture emerging in the LOS.  

 

 

[NongKhaiKid]

They really do think things through before spouting off to the media don't they  ?      

[smedly]

1 hour ago, digibum said:

 

It's almost cute that you think the Thai police care about tourist safety.  

 

And you sort of answered your own question, 30 years and trillions of baht in revenue . . . and yet they still keep coming, don't they?  As long as people continue to reward Thailand with their tourist and expat dollars (or pounds or euros) regardless of tourist safety they have zero incentive to do anything that benefits you.  

and your reply to my post makes no sense at all - did you actually read it and understand it

 

here's a clue - where did I even hint that I think thai Thai police care .............................................it's like you looked at my post took most of the words and then said exactly the same thing but make it out that I didn't.......confused

[harada]

11 hours ago, taichiplanet said:

the ones that want to engage in illegal activities won't be carrying those sims around with them anyway.

Just offer us all ankle monitors with the promise of a free beer every week and most would gladly wear it!

Free beer FOR a week might entice me. 

[smedly]

1 hour ago, Maybole said:

Will they be sold at a special (inflated) price ? What are they afraid of ?

they are not afraid of anything that would make any sense to an educated mind, it is exactly what I said above and to put it a different way - there are people looking at this stuff that have never opened a book 

[digibum]

3 minutes ago, smedly said:

and your reply to my post makes no sense at all - did you actually read it and understand it

 

here's a clue - where did I even hint that I think thai Thai police care .............................................it's like you looked at my post took most of the words and then said exactly the same thing but make it out that I didn't.......confused

 

 

Quote

Tourist safety should be the number one goal in this country and yet for the last 30 years after trillions of revenue they have done absolutely nothing at all  

 

You said that, right?  You said that tourist safety should be the number one goal of the country?  Why?  If people will keep coming and spending trillions of baht whether or not they do anything, why do anything?  

 

I was poking fun at the fact that you expect a different outcome.  You claim that tourist safety should be their major concern when it should be obvious that as long as the money keeps rolling in they have no reason to care.  No amount of ranting on some forum or your anger is going to change that.  That, unfortunately, is the reality.  

 

And if you are giving them your expat or tourism dollars, you are part of the problem because every baht you spend confirms their decision to do nothing to protect tourists.  

 

Taking any position otherwise is like saying, "You guys serve watered down drinks in filthy glasses, pad my bill, and have horrible food.  I am a good customer and should be treated with respect.  See you tomorrow night."  

 

 

[sjaak327]

1 hour ago, digibum said:

 

In 15 or so years of traveling to and living in Thailand I have never not had a local SIM.  I buy one before I leave the airport.  

 

On the other hand, I travel a lot on business to other countries and I never buy a local SIM because I am in offices or in the hotel 90% of the time I am there and can use Wifi.  But if I am going to be out and about, like I would as a tourist, I buy a SIM because there are a lot of apps that don't work without data.  

 

How can they not put a name to a SIM if you have to use a passport to buy the SIM?  You're supposed to show a passport today.  Why would that not be the case when they are increasing the amount of surveillance?  Now they will have your passport tied to your ID and a special class of SIM cards that help them isolate foreigners from locals.  

 

My guess is that the two systems they created when they required SIM registrations don't talk to each other very well.  They got people to register their SIM cards but they've since figured out they don't have a good way of quickly locating people based on that system.  It's probably a three or four step process or involves some degree of manual intervention to get the info they're looking for and they want to be able to do it in real time which requires a different set of tools.  

 

I would love to hear the questions they ask of the telecom industry regarding the technology.  That will basically tell you everything you need to know regarding their motivations.  

 

I was talking about foreign sims, if they cannot even get their own systems in order, do you really believe they could put a name to a foreign sim ? Not to mention the fact that not all countries require you to register the sim using any form of ID. For example my LAO gsm sim was bought in a shop where there was no request for any identification whatsoever, even Lao Telecom cannot put a name to that sim, let alone the Thai government. My point is that say my Dutch sim, which is registered in the Netherlands, would not have a name attached for officials in Thailand, Dutch privacy laws would prevent such a thing.

 

The registration of Thai sim cards was just about a year ago, are they now claiming that system isn't capable of putting a name to a sim, and quickly locate it if needed ?

 that's utter incompetence if true. In fact I cannot possibly believe that to be true, not in this day and age. It was already embarrassing that the registration action was needed in the first place, as showing your passport has been a requirement for a long time, in fact my 10 year old sim required indentification when I bought it, but not sure if that was needed everywhere at the time. Point being, that particular sim was already registered using a passport.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jerojero]

Sure!  Make it more onerous for visitors!  Welcome them warmly by tracking them like those paroled convicts with an ankle bracelets This government is unbelievable.  F.Retards!  Sheesh! 

[kkup]

No doubt one of those 2 has a connection to the new sim supplier. Cash grab.

[animalmagic]

Some very valid and logical arguments on here.

The whole idea falls under the classification of my favourite acronym - T.I.T.S - Think It Through, Stupid.

[yellowboat]

These people probably do not read or have not read 1984.  

 

It is hardly a national security issue and is a violation of the right to privacy.

 

National security = we are afraid of you.    What are they afraid of ?

[maoro2013]

As if tourists are the biggest problem.

 

And what of us who live here, are we considered tourists as well??

 

Sounds, for many reasons, like a stupid idea. SIM's are already registered, or meant to be.

 

If you were a criminal would you use a phone with a registered SIM, yes, but not if it was registered in your name. Mobile phones get stolen everyday.

 

What is Malaysia's experience by the way??

 

[Colabamumbai]

Ankle bracelets will be next. After 6 years living in Thailand, I have been touring Cambodia for 3 months and it seems like a better option for ex-pats. You have no connection to Immigration once you have your visa.

[Colabamumbai]

If the battery in your I Phone is wrapped in a fabric type covering, take it out and have a look at it, can you see the fine wires and a larger copper piece this is a microphone, one of two in your phone. You can remove the fabric and enclosed wires and throw it out. Your device will work with less tracking.

[anotheruser]

3 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

Logic. There is no real need to get a local sim for a bit of data, with the availability of free Wifi in most hotels and many bars and restaurants. And even free wifi in Bangkok city center.

 

Yes quite a few tourist indeed obtain a local sim, but I very much doubt those being the majority.

 

As to what you were saying, they OP talks about easily monitoring foreigners. Now they aren't going to monitor people with foreign sims, as they cannot possibly put a name to a sim.

 

If all they wanted is to monitor foreigners using Thai sims, they already can. Maybe you have missed it, but a few years ago you had to register your Thai sim using a passport. Failure to do so would render the sim useless. It happened to the two sims I own (both over 10 years old), one is for my Laotian boyfriend whilst the other is being used by me whilst in Thailand. Last November, they didn't work, and all I needed to do to re-activate the sim (with any balance and expiration still intact) is to go to the nearest AIS and register both sims using my passport.

 

The real reason probably is that they want to sell those pesky sims at higher prices and with higher call/data costs. Again they already can distinguish foreign owned sims from Thai owned sims, as that whole registration procedure has already achieved that.

 

 

I am not saying that it happens but all access to wifi or internet is supposed to be registered. So they have put a little bit of "thought" into that as well.

[outsider]

So, these guys can tell what a person is up to, on the basis of where that person is? What a brilliant (stupid!) thought. Let's see - this means someone having just a beer at Soi Cowboy will more likely be under observation - or even arrested (perhaps for going into a bar with no license to operate, therefore tarnishing the good image of LoS) compared with a person walking around with an IED or two inside the backpack in... I don't know... some hiso place like Siam Paragon, perhaps?

[RBOP]

All sim cards can be tracked. Nothing magic.

[mrmicbkktxl]

If no mobile then the tourist get a tag in the left ear,right before they get their entry stamp,plus a yellow star tatoo on both hands and forehead,besides that after the single gateway is in use all photos and posts for social networks posted by foreigner will need approval by homeland security.For example dirty beach photos or beatings,cheatings,scams,corruption stories will be automatic blocked from posting,and the foreigner who tried to post that will be sued for defamation and gets 3 nights attitude adjustment

[ezzra]

 

Here's a story why this idea is a still borne and not worth the banana leaf it written on,, nearly a year ago, I have given the police the full details and working cell numbers of two African scammers, the numbers are still in use and those scums are still in business trying to scam others....

[Brigante7]

So my Thai wife will buy 2 and give one to me, problem solved.

[Syduan]

1 step closer to The New World Order.

[JASON THAI]

So does this mean I don't have to do my 90 day reporting as they will know were I am  

[pumpuy]

That's j ust the usual blabla from a small light that wants to shine more bright because it has a " greeat " idea .

There are and will always be a lot of ways to avoid being tracked if someone wants this .