When is a language school not a school?

[simon43]

The idea of opening a language school has been discussed many times on this forum.  I started a topic about language centres a few years ago, but never got a reply to my crucial question ==> 'When is a language 'school' not a school?'

 

I'll repost my OP below:

 

I am also researching the establishment of a language centre to teach English to adults in my locality.

 

From reading the above, is my interpretation of the regulations correct?

 

I can open a registered business which teaches English from some premises, employs NES teachers  and Thai employees in the ratio 1:4.  That business only becomes an 'informal school' when the MOE issues a school licence, with tax-free profits for courses with an approved curriculum, need for a Thai Director with MA Education etc.

 

That business is not an 'informal school' until it obtains the MOE licence.  But it can legally operate prior to that point as a registered business, paying tax/VAT etc, just like any other business, without the need for an approved curriculum, and without the need for a Thai Director with MA Education.

 

In other words, when one establishes a language centre, it always starts off as a business, and then becomes an 'informal school' after the MOE issue the school. licence further down the line.

 

Is one obliged to seek an MOE licence?  Or can one simply operate as a business throughout the life of the language centre, (without the tax advantages of being a licenced school)?

 

The important question in my final para was never answered.  Having recently (see my recent post) been 'messed about' by teaching agencies, I am thinking again about the viability of opening a small language 'centre' (not licenced school, but operating under my existing ltd company).  My market research indicates a high demand for learning/improving English in my locality (Phuket International Airport), with over 100 local hotels, plus airport staff, airport businesses, car-hire etc etc, local primary and high schools, and not a single language school within 20Km...

 

I do not want to go down the path of opening a licenced school, because that has to involve Thais whom I do not know and therefore do not trust.  The only Thai person who I trust 100% is my female accountant of 14 years acquaintance  

 

Has anyone on this forum opened a language centre that did not apply for a school licence?

[simon43]

The only Thai person who I trust 100% is my female accountant of 14 years acquaintance

 

LoL, I mention her because in 14 years of working with her, she has never deceived me.  Maybe she has deceived the tax man, but I keep out of all that.

 

Whereas other Thai friends or ex-wives have either been 'cheats' or have/are incompetents.  Nice people, but not people you want to do business with.

 

I'm probably a bad judge of character, but my only businesses that have failed (both in Europe and Thailand), were with business partners/wives.  When I go it alone, I am successful.

 

So IMHO, by excluding business partners/lovers etc, I immediately increase the success factor of my new business.

 

I found a very nice shophouse to rent on a main street location near to the international airport.  The monthly rent is 35k baht (I can probably barter this down to 30k).  It will sound expensive if you're living in Issan, but 30k is very reasonable to rent a newish, 3-floor shophouse just next to the airport.  I can drop that number into my business spreadsheet and then calculate back to see how many students I need to break even.  (I have my resort business as well which can inject funds in the early days of this new business).

[simon43]

Dude, OP,   either your nut is cracked or you are using this forum as your personal diary. 

 

LoL, Advanced member with just 80 posts.  Sums it all up really

 

I mention my previous issues with Thai business partners/partners because it is entirely relevant to the thread.  You cannot get a language 'school' licence without heavily involving Thai persons in your business.  But you can open a language 'club/centre' without involving Thais, other than your accountant (and the Thai staff that I already have in my existing business).

[Loaded]

As soon as you exceed a total of 7 students you are obligated by the Private Schools Act to register your school with the MoE with the intention of applying for a school license.

 

http://www.isat.or.th/sites/default/files/PSA Amended BE 2554.pdf

 

Your language school would be classified as a non-formal school (informal is a different classification)

[simon43]

Loaded, thanks for your comment and link.  But I think you have made the assumption that this is a language 'school'.  I suggest that it is not a 'school' (formal or non-formal), as described in that link.

 

Think of it more as a language club, with no curriculum.  The students (if they are children), simply visit the building to watch English language cartoons, play English games, chat in English with the person who is running the after-school club.

 

You could argue that I am splitting hairs in my interpretation of the Act.  But I know of many similar language clubs in other provinces which are not classified as non-formal schools, and apparently operate without hindrance from the authorities.

 

I will discuss all this with my lawyer

[muzmurray]

30 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Loaded, thanks for your comment and link.  But I think you have made the assumption that this is a language 'school'.  I suggest that it is not a 'school' (formal or non-formal), as described in that link.

 

Think of it more as a language club, with no curriculum.  The students (if they are children), simply visit the building to watch English language cartoons, play English games, chat in English with the person who is running the after-school club.

 

You could argue that I am splitting hairs in my interpretation of the Act.  But I know of many similar language clubs in other provinces which are not classified as non-formal schools, and apparently operate without hindrance from the authorities.

 

I will discuss all this with my lawyer

 

Then why don't you chat to them?

[simon43]

Quote

 

Then why don't you chat to them?
 

 

 

I have on several occasions since 2014.  They have all expressed surprise that anyone would consider them to be informal schools.  They are language centres or language clubs, and none of them has ever been visited by the local education authorities, and none have ever been asked to register as informal schools.

 

It all seems either open to interpretation, or that the LEA isn't aware of these language centres (I don't believe that), or that the LEA isn't bothered to press them to register as informal schools, or that the LEA also considers them not to fall within the definitions of an informal school.

Edited August 4, 2016 by simon43
typos

[Loaded]

Apathy is the reason why the the local MoE office doesn't enforce the Private Schools Act. Those clubs/schools you mentioned are all breaking this Act. You might/probably will get away with it but what happens if you don't fly under the radar and there's a crackdown or visits from Immigration/Labour/MoE.

[BruceMangosteen]

It's almost impossible to do it legally. You may as well face it mate, you need the Thai's as you are in Thailand. Take your losses and then go back to England or wherever you came from. You won't be the first nor the last. All love struck. O O and God Bless

[cornishcarlos]

My wife has operated a "non-formal school" for over 2 years now. Granted the situation is completely different as we live in a semi rural area outside a larger city, plus she is a Thai !!

She has anywhere between 40 and 70 students depending on time of year, also employs 2 other teachers.

Not once has she been visited or contacted by the MOE...

 

As as foreigner, operating in full view of the local authorities, I would guess you would be on the radar very quickly. So unless you are 100% certain that you comply with the "law" then I would be careful.

 

 

[simon43]

Take your losses  ...

 

Losses, what losses?  I already have a successful small hotel (the 4th that I've built).  This language club idea is simply as an additional small business to run.

 

[/quote]

You might/probably will get away with it but what happens if you don't fly under the radar and there's a crackdown or visits from Immigration/Labour/MoE.

[/quote]

 

Firstly, I have a B visa and I'll arrange a WP via my existing Ltd company.  So visits from immigration/labour should not concern me.  

 

Visits from the MoE?  I suppose it depends if the MoE staffs' kids get free English language lessons  or not... (oops!, that is the Thai way) 

 

Anyway, I am still assessing the best way to do this little business without upsetting anyone important...

[BruceMangosteen]

On 8/6/2016 at 3:04 PM, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Losses, what losses?  I already have a successful small hotel (the 4th that I've built).  This language club idea is simply as an additional small business to run.

 

[/quote]

 

 

 

You don't get the plot. Thai's don't generally allow farangs to own and operate profitable small business's. If it's making money, they want the money. You will learn a very hard, expensive, and difficult lesson one day. You think you have four "successful" small hotels and are going to open another small business and just rock and roll. No way. I wish you well and good luck, but the system isn't set up for people like you to come in here and make money. O O.

[simon43]

Thai's don't generally allow farangs to own and operate profitable small business's.

 

This is going off-topic, and I hear what you're saying.  But since I've been living here full-time since 2002, the only losses that I've made have been from my Thai wives, (happily all now ex-wives!).  All 4 small hotels that I've built have/are profitable.  I have never had to pay bribes, police 'funds' etc and I have had a lot of support from my local Thai community, (because my business generates income for them ==> taxis, tour ticket sales etc).

 

Yes, it could be different with a language centre.  But I've always found that by giving something for free to the local community, any animosity or jealousy seems to disappear - rapidly!. This is one reason why I am a police volunteer/Thai translator for many years.

 

For the language school, my intention is to run an after-school language club for Prathom students free of charge. Yes, I'm actually going to teach them for free!  This is a marketing ploy.  By providing a free after-schools club, I can then market the paid weekend club and more structured teaching to the parents.

 

Hey, but what do I know?  I've only been running profitable small businesses in Europe and Thailand for decades

[bark]

On 8/8/2559 at 8:13 AM, simon43 said:

 

 

 

This is going off-topic, and I hear what you're saying.  But since I've been living here full-time since 2002, the only losses that I've made have been from my Thai wives, (happily all now ex-wives!).  All 4 small hotels that I've built have/are profitable.  I have never had to pay bribes, police 'funds' etc and I have had a lot of support from my local Thai community, (because my business generates income for them ==> taxis, tour ticket sales etc).

 

Yes, it could be different with a language centre.  But I've always found that by giving something for free to the local community, any animosity or jealousy seems to disappear - rapidly!. This is one reason why I am a police volunteer/Thai translator for many years.

 

For the language school, my intention is to run an after-school language club for Prathom students free of charge. Yes, I'm actually going to teach them for free!  This is a marketing ploy.  By providing a free after-schools club, I can then market the paid weekend club and more structured teaching to the parents.

 

Hey, but what do I know?  I've only been running profitable small businesses in Europe and Thailand for decades

Then why bother to ask for advice from people who have not done what you have ?

[johninbkk71]

Have you any experience of teaching? Qualifications? It sounds like you want to set up a babysitting service, not a place for people to Learn English. 

Quote:

Think of it more as a language club, with no curriculum.  The students (if they are children), simply visit the building to watch English language cartoons, play English games, chat in English with the person who is running the after-school club.

[mrwebb8825]

OP - Save yourself some headaches and open a Boys and Girls Club (similar to what is done in the US) that offers a play area, video lounge and a Tutoring Service (this is where the money comes from). This would not come under the direction of the MoE but under the Department of Labor as it would be more of a supervised Day Care Center with benefits.

 

"Employ" university students to help "supervise" the children, manage the reception desk, sell snacks and drinks, clean, etc. while you handle the tutoring.

[gleeglee]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you need to check the law, Offering any kind of educational services without a licence from the ministry of education carries a 2 year jail sentence, your school will have to be inspected and approved by the MOE classroom sizes have to conform to the law there are minimum sizes for these classrooms. you will be required to submit a floor plan for what every room is being used for on every floor, opening a school is not as easy as what you think.

 

As i said you do need approval from the ministry of education and you must have a Thai Headteacher who has a masters degree, and being a police volunteer is not something i would be proud to advertise.

[smotherb]

I have been running a local mia noi finishing school for some years now. I concentrate on one young lady at a time and teach her the necessary skills to become a successful mia noi. Do you think I need to get a certification from the MoE?

[simon43]

Have you any experience of teaching?

 

Yes, 10 years teaching kids and adults in Thailand, Laos and Myanmar

 

Qualifications?

No Education degree, but an MSc and BSc from London University, MA in Thai from Chula, numerous teaching certificates from The British Council, TEFL, Safeguarding Children, Teaching SEN etc.

It sounds like you want to set up a babysitting service, not a place for people to Learn English. 

[/quote]

 

Well, sad to say, your last statement is about right   Why?  Because unlike my students in Myanmar and Laos, my experience with typical Thai students (kids and adults), is that most of them have an English ability on par with a 4-year old...

 

Over the past few weeks, I've been approached by many adults who want private or small group tuition, and I've spoken with mums, dads and their kids about running an English club.

 

Not one of these potential students has been able to converse with me in the most basic of  English

 

OP - Save yourself some headaches and open a Boys and Girls Club (similar to what is done in the US) that offers a play area, video lounge and a Tutoring Service (this is where the money comes from).

 

You're spot on with that advice.

 

(I'm sure that I have too many nested quotes in this post!)